Zerthimon as a god?

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Calmar's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

The chant about the githzerai goes that "The majority revere either their race's nameless wizard-king or the legendary Zerthimon as a god." (The Factol's Manifesto p. 14)
Since there is a good chance that I'm getting a githzerai cleric in the future, I'd like to gather some clues about the race's spiritual ways. Now Zerthimon as a god sounds a bit wierd to me, of course. But if we rather view him as kind of focal point of sorts of his teachings than an actual deity, it could work quite well.

Besides of the Unbroken Circle that serves as a wonderful roleplaying foundation I need some rules hardware, too. That is, the domains of Zerthimon, or better, the domains clerics that follow and know his teachings have access to. Usind the domains presented in the Player's Handbook and the Player's Guide to Faerûn I put together this list of cleric domains:

Law,
Liberation,
Planning*,
Protection,
Suffering*,
Trickery

... and War is dismissed.

*from PGtF

I chose War because of the Rising. Not sure, if it fits the general spirit of the Circle, though.

What do you think?

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Zimrazim's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

Trickery. Laughing out loud

...You know, prior to 3e, I believe githzerai were exempt from the requirement that monks must be lawful. I'm not sure if that's still the case or not.

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Calmar's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

I thought about that, too. But don't you think it wouldn't fit with having the Law domain at the same time?

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Zimrazim's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

'Calmar' wrote:
I thought about that, too. But don't you think it wouldn't fit with having the Law domain at the same time?

I can hardly perceive Zerthimon (or any gith really) as being associated with the Law domain, personally. I'm not certain whether 3e githzerai must follow the alignment requirements for monks, though.

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Calmar's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

I chose Law, because Zerthimon won through discipline. Trickery fits the stealthy part of his quest, though...

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--Bel the Pit Fiend, Lord of the First (in a quiet hour of privacy)

Dunamin's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

That's one of the reasons I'm much more fond of githyanki than githzerais, as an interesting race.

I often have trouble reasoning where the general githzerai-mentality is on the Law-Chaos axis. They live in Limbo - in fact, they're the classic race for PCs to interact with in a civilized manner on the Plane of True Chaos, yet they are disciplined and sage-like which seems like Lawful traits, yet they value personal freedom beyond much else, which seems a Chaotic trait, etc.

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Zerthimon as a god?

I don't think there's any need to think of alignment as a straight-jacket, especially when dealing with Xaos. :mrgreen:

I see it as a contradiction - disciplined freedom or rather internal discipline rather than one being forced upon you by the system. Save that because of the chaos matter all around them they must have rigid structure.

But when consistency breaks down, isn't that chaos? To me the githzerai are living their Zen koan, and ultimately this is a stage in their evolution to something more. Ol' Zerth will come back and elevate the race to a higher plane.

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Calmar's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

Where is it told that he died there?

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--Bel the Pit Fiend, Lord of the First (in a quiet hour of privacy)

Dunamin's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

Anyway, its an interesting idea to use him as a god in a more concrete sense.

He was slain on the Blasted Plains, but he could have gone all messiah and ascended to effectively become a spiritual power.

Calmar's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

Now that I think about it, War is not a good idea since - as far as I see it -Zerthimon fought only because it was the only possible way, not because he had an interest in warfare itself, that deities with the war domain usually possess.

About the Law domain; I can't recall where I heard it, but I have the impression that the nameless wizard-king discourages the adherence to Zerthimon and that the lawful Zerths therefore are a minority. :| Puzzled

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"La la la, I'm a girl, I'm a pretty little girl!"

--Bel the Pit Fiend, Lord of the First (in a quiet hour of privacy)

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Zerthimon as a god?

Liberation domain.

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Calmar's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

liberation is great! Thanks for that suggestion, Zimrazim.

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--Bel the Pit Fiend, Lord of the First (in a quiet hour of privacy)

Zimrazim's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

'Calmar' wrote:
the nameless wizard-king

His name is something like Zaerith Menyar-Ag-Gith. Sadly, I think almost nothing in canon has been written about him.

'Calmar' wrote:
Thanks for that suggestion, Zimrazim.

:mrgreen:

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Calmar's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

Is there something funny with that expression? Puzzled Laughing out loud
I didn't even know that domain...

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"La la la, I'm a girl, I'm a pretty little girl!"

--Bel the Pit Fiend, Lord of the First (in a quiet hour of privacy)

Zimrazim's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

'Calmar' wrote:
Is there something funny with that expression? Puzzled Laughing out loud I didn't even know that domain...

No, no. I mean "You're welcome." Like this :mrgreen:

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Calmar's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

Al right. Laughing out loud

So far we have six domains. Looks good, don't you think? Smiling

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"La la la, I'm a girl, I'm a pretty little girl!"

--Bel the Pit Fiend, Lord of the First (in a quiet hour of privacy)

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Zerthimon as a god?

Quote:
Now that I think about it, War is not a good idea since - as far as I see it -Zerthimon fought only because it was the only possible way, not because he had an interest in warfare itself, that deities with the war domain usually possess.

I like this idea actually - a god of reluctant war would be refreshing. I recall one of the "Chinese" gods in On Hallowed Ground had a similar take on warfare.

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Zerthimon as a god?

'Calmar' wrote:
Where is it told that he died there?
In "A Guide to the Astral Plane" (page 46, specifically) it’s written that Zerthimon was killed when the civil war began, which prompted the (newly declared) githzerais to retreat to Limbo. It’s true, however, that the "Blasted Plains" was only technically the place where the Declaration of Two Skies were proclaimed, so it may not necessarily be the same place where Zerthimon was felled.

Calmar's picture
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Zerthimon as a god?

"sciborg2" wrote:
I like this idea actually - a god of reluctant war would be refreshing. I recall one of the "Chinese" gods in On Hallowed Ground had a similar take on warfare.
My concern is that, from the viewpoint of Githzerai mythology, it is Gith who embodies the direct fighting against the illithids while Zerthimon's the one who laid the foundation of the Rising through his careful planning and his mastery of his mind and his emotions.

"Dunamin" wrote:
In "A Guide to the Astral Plane" (page 46, specifically) it’s written that Zerthimon was killed when the civil war began, which prompted the (newly declared) githzerais to retreat to Limbo. It’s true, however, that the "Blasted Plains" was only technically the place where the Declaration of Two Skies were proclaimed, so it may not necessarily be the same place where Zerthimon was felled.
Thanks, thats interesting news.

__________________

"La la la, I'm a girl, I'm a pretty little girl!"

--Bel the Pit Fiend, Lord of the First (in a quiet hour of privacy)

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