Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

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Palomides's picture
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Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

Not much more than the general question in the title:

If Anubis has set himself up as the protector of the dead gods in the Astral, why did/does he allow the githyanki to colonize bodies like on Tu'narath?
That seems pretty disrespectful and seems like the very thing that Anubis set himself to prevent.

-Does Anubis interpret his role as "protector" differently than I do?
-Did the githyanki settle BEFORE Anubis took on this role?
-Are the githyanki more powerful than Anubis?
-Do the githyanki and Anubis have some sort of pact from which they both derive benefits?

I've never worked out a good answer to this and I'd like to hear some possible explanations.

Kobold Avenger's picture
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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

I don't think that setting up colonies on most Dead Gods count as something that hurts them.

And there's probably ancient pacts about how the Powers can interact with mortals. And in most cases they generally aren't allowed to. While it generally covers the Material Plane, there could be something about not raining down wrath on a bunch of mortals, unless they directly provoke you.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

Not to be argumentative (as I DO want to encourage discussion); but I thought I read that the githyanki were actually mining the dead body for material for building, etc.
[Don't recall where I picked that up, but I thought it was a canonical source]
If so, I can't imagine exactly what type of harm Anubis is trying to prevent to the dead gods.

Are you suggesting that Anubis' role is protect the dead gods from the living gods? (Possibly gods trying to steal or monopolize portfolios)

If not, then Anubis seems like a pretty toothless guardian if he can't/won't chase off mortals. And I personally like him too much to let him be such an impotent force in the Astral.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyanki?

To put it simply, no one knows.

The Guardian of the Dead Gods (it doesn't call itself Anubis anymore, and it is no longer a 'he') is an enigmatic being who does not explain its motivations to mortals. All mortals know is that sometimes you can mine a dead god, build a city on it, chop it into little bits and bring it into Sigil in pieces, and the Guardian of the Dead Gods will do nothing. Sometimes the Guardian of the Dead Gods will prevent you from even touching a dead god.

Obviously, there are forces and rationales at work other than simply preventing all dead gods from being harmed. Exactly what the Guardian of the Dead Gods is really up to, what pacts and agreements it has made, is not something it reveals. Perhaps it only guards certain dead gods whose surviving allies have agreed to supply it with the divine power it needs to continue its task. Perhaps some dead gods are more important, in the cosmic scheme of things, than others. Perhaps the Guardian of the Dead Gods can see into the future to some degree, and knows that some dead gods still have important roles to play in the fate of the multiverse, while others do not. Perhaps sometimes, it knows a dead god is fated to be destroyed utterly, and it merely waits to ensure this happens at precisely the right moment. Perhaps the Guardian of the Dead Gods simply can't be everywhere at once.

I, personally, like it too much to treat it simply as a monster the PCs have to fight every time they have to retrieve something from a god's corpse, and I like the idea of githyanki and other races building exotic cities on the corpses of long-dead powers too much to give up that aspect of the Astral Plane. The Guardian of the Dead Gods is more complicated and interesting than that, and the Astral Plane is more complicated and interesting than that.

If you get on the bad side of the Guardian of the Dead Gods, you are almost certainly screwed. It is far from toothless when it determines that it has to act. But the game doesn't need a brick wall for the PCs to run their heads against every time they want to do something cool. There are a lot of interesting stories that can be told involving Astral cities, godsblood-mining operations, and lost pieces of ancient divine corpses, and it'd be a shame to give any of those possibilities up because an unbeatable monster is pledged to destroy everyone who tries.

So that's not what the Guardian of the Dead Gods is. It is sometimes an obstruction to the PCs' plans. It is sometimes merely background, a cosmic sentinel who assures that not every deity is mined to nothing. It is sometimes a patron, of sorts, who can warn the PCs (as it does a few times in the adventure Dead Gods) when gods are returning to life, inspiring adventures. It is frustrating and unknowable, as a being of its stature should be. It is not predictable. The PCs can't simply summon it by finding a dead god and stabbing it (or doing anything else). If it does appear, it won't reappear every time they return to the area. It may resist allowing anyone to touch a god-corpse one day, but allow them to destroy it on another. It is above anything the PCs might do, or comprehend. It works on a greater scale, and sees things they do not. It is not a mere security device that goes off at predictable intervals. It is not at anyone's beck and call. Meeting the Guardian of the Dead Gods should be a rare, awe-inspiring event, something that only happens to the PCs on very special occasions.

The multiverse is a huge, wild, complicated, mysterious place, and the great entities who dwell in it can be just as confounding to mortal minds. This is how it should be. It'd be a shame if anything about them became routine.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyanki?

Oh, and to answer your original question, probably the githyanki do occasionally earn the Guardian of the Dead Gods' wrath. And when they do, they know enough to run away. Some probably die anyway. There are lots of things in the Astral Plane that can kill them, and if it's not an immortal protector of dead gods, it's an astral marauder, psurlons, a fiend, or something else.

Quote:
-Does Anubis interpret his role as "protector" differently than I do?

Almost certainly. Its ways are beyond mortal understanding, and I don't think that's a cheap excuse. I think it's part of the definition of a god (or god-like power).

Quote:
-Did the githyanki settle BEFORE Anubis took on this role?

Yes. It was Anubis only a few thousand years ago, when the pantheon of the Pharoahs was at its height. The githyanki have been in the Astral Plane since before the crowning of Ra.

Quote:
-Are the githyanki more powerful than Anubis?

Conceivably. They're an ancient, widely traveled race that dominates the Astral Plane, and the Guardian of the Dead Gods is only one being. Any one group of githyanki is no match for it, but as a race they may be more than it can take on.

Quote:
-Do the githyanki and Anubis have some sort of pact from which they both derive benefits?

I doubt it. I don't think the Guardian of the Dead Gods would make a pact with mortals. However, they might have an informal understanding. The Guardian may appreciate how githyanki keep other races away from the divine corpses under their control, and the githyanki in turn may treat their homes with a level of respect that many other races would not.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

VanWormer, I agree with you completely.

When dealing with the multitude of ideas possible in the planes, none of the "rules" or explanations should be so fiercely enforced that it limits game play.
Like you, I do like the idea of settlements on dead gods and the mental images that conjures up; and I don't want to give that up either.

I also agree that Anubis (sorry, I'm old-school) should be a GOD and not a monster that can be led into a trap by some manipulative PCs hoping to take him down. In the unlikely event that the PCs run into him, they should be completely in awe of his power.

However, when possible I do like to hear answers that cohesively explain things, since such explanations usually spark more creative ideas in me than just the "That's the way it works this week - don't question the DM" solution.
Even writing up my "alternative" questions (e.g. does he have a pact?, etc.) made me think of a few interesting possibilites. I don't know which one if any I'll pursue; but I post most of my random ideas to try to stir up other ones.

To me the seeming incompatability of the two forces (githyanki colonizing vs. Anubis protecting) seems to fall under a couple of broad categories:
-They are enemies.
Potential consequences:
Will Anubis (or his agents) recruit the PCs to act against the githyanki?
Will the githyanki send the PCs on a mission that will weaken Anubis?

-They are at a stalemate
Is the githyanki's inability to find their leader Gith (who might be a demigod) a punishment set by Anubis or a means he has to keep the githyanki from expanding to other dead gods? Does he recruit the githyanki to keep out other mortals while he focuses on divine threats?
Do the githyanki control something that prevents Anubis from acting against them?

-They are allies.
Is there some pact between them? If so, what does each party get?

-Are the githyanki beneath his notice?
If so, what type of threat is so dangerous as to rouse Anubis? What would this sort of threat mean to the PCs and the other inhabitants of the planes (mortal and divine)?

It's these kinds of ideas I'm trying to kick-start and trying to bring in the creativity of others

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

Whose to say that Anubis doesn't occasionally help the Psurlons, Githzerai, Illithids and other enemies of the Githyanki occasionally... It doesn't even have to be him appearing to them directly and guiding them, it can be things far more subtle.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

There are a bunch of creative suggestions in my post above.

Palomides's picture
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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

I realized this topic died; but for the sake of completeness, I just thought of one additional possibility:
Perhaps the god upon which the githyanki built their main city is a god antithetical to Anubis. (E.g. a god of desecrating corpses or a god of ghouls)
In this case, Anubis may not extend his protection to one who is so unworthy and Anubis might find the desecration of the god's body to be a fitting punishment.
Perhaps the githyanki WERE chased off several bodies but were left alone if damaging the foes (or possibly victims) of Anubis

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

Perhaps the god upon which the githyanki built their main city is a god antithetical to Anubis.

Um. Sorry to bring up more counter-arguments, but if the one Tu'narath adventure is taken as canon (and if my memory serves- I lost Dragon #100) the god-isle Tu'narath is built on was implied to have been a good god.
There was some cavern in the isle where good PCs could commune with what was left of the god for what amounted to warm fuzzies and a bonus or two. Probably not a god of ghouls... or maybe I'm remembering it wrong. *shrugs*

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

Once again, I stand corrected.
Still my possible solution could be used by others in different scenarios

Azure's picture
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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

Perhaps Anubus objects to the DESTRUCTION of a god, but considers what the githyanki do as merely RESHAPING the god's divine material, and therefore OK.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

What if Anubis' REAL duty was to make sure nobody brought the dead gods back to life? 'Course, this would be ruled out by

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Quah Namog in Dead Gods
, but it's a thought.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyanki?

In Sigil, the Lady of Pain mostly only makes an appearance if she believes that either she or the city itself is threatened.

Inhabitants of the Cage, having lived there for generations, have developed a pretty good sense of what NOT to do, in order to avoid the Lady's wrath. This sense is generally more well-developed than that of visiting planars or Clueless.

Perhaps a similar situation exists in the Astral Plane. Having lived there for an incredibly long time, the githyanki (at least their leaders, those involved in mining godsblood, etc.) have a better sense than almost anyone of what they can and can't do with regard to god-isles without invoking Anubis' wrath. (This sense was probably acquired by having piked off Anubis repeatedly at some point...)

I think the Guardian is really there more to deal with players than with NPCs -- "No, you can't design a ritual to use the power of Bane to turn yourself into a greater deity." Note, however, that Vlaakith was trying to do something similar with the god-isle of Tu'narath in order to become divine!

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyanki?

Zimrazim wrote:
Note, however, that Vlaakith was trying to do something similar with the god-isle of Tu'narath in order to become divine!

Aaand... she didn't, right? Maybe the Guardian doesn't find it necessary to directly intercede every time.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

Does the undertaker, the grave digger or the graveyard gardener remove each maggot from a corpse's body?

I don't think he cares if things live or feed on the dead gods, but grave robbers (stealing power, a corpse etc.) catch his attention.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

I appreciate the different takes on this; but now more than ever, it seems like WotC came up with two cool separate ideas (cities and mining of dead gods, and Anubis as self-appointed protector) that don't mesh real well. (No, "you got chocolate in my peanut butter" synergy here.)
For every suggestion that would make the behavior consistant, there seems to be at least one exception to weaken the argument.

While I've heard a lot of different angles (and some of them were pretty cool and original), I think I'm still going to need to jury-rig this to make it satisfactory to me.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

How about this, did Anubis really set out to look after the dead gods?

It would be interesting to find him and see him eating a bit of godflesh!

Another idea is he is dieing, and really just waiting to die. Any intervention he does it just to pass the time (he may have hundreds of years left, but thats not much to him) Surely a god of death would know when he was gonna kick the bucket.

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Re: Why doesn't Anubis chase off the githyani?

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread (which given this topic is a little ironic) but another possibility occurred to me.

I think of the Astral and Outer Planes as the "planes of thought" where ideas and concepts become manifest. Conversely, I think of the dead gods floating in the Astral (with a few exceptions of deicide) to be embodiments of ideas that didn't stand the test of time. They are the concepts that were abandoned for newer or different variations of the same themes (e.g. a strick Hamurabian style god of justice might die when a newer god of justice (who factors in mitigating circumstances) rises to replace him)

Perhaps Anubis views his role as protecting these dead "ideas" as they fade away into nothingness; but more importantly, perhaps he is seeking to protect the multiverse from the damage that might be caused if these ideas that have passed are revived or harnessed.
Perhaps Anubis is trying to keep away pilgrims and the power-hungry from settling because their attempts to tap into the residual energy of the dead god are more likely to cause the dead god to become absorbed by/crash into an existing plane and "corrupt" the "purity" of the ideals that the plane currently embodies.
For example, reviving out-moded ideas of virtue could introduce chaos and instability to Mt. Celestia if an the influence of an ancient god began to alter/corrupt what virtues are considered worthy to progress up the mountain. If older values that find enforcing law more virtuous than compassion, perhaps this would allow access for inevitables or maybe even devils to climb

So Anubis' primary goals are to prevent a corruption of the planes and to pervent a regression in thought/belief. If an "old" idea starts to regain power, Anubis feels that it should manifest as a new godling and go through the normal cycle of growth to prove it validity to exist

While the githyanki are living on and mining a dead god, the dead god and what it stood for are inconsequential to them. Since they aren't trying to revive or harness the power of this dead idea; Anubis does not view them as a threat to the general structure of the cosmos

By constrast, if Anubis had realized that Quah Namog had the power to single-handedly revive a dead god by himself, Anubis would have definitely viewed the shaman as a threat to be stopped (but it is understandable if Anubis didn't anticipate what occurred)

I apologize if this concept was expressed before but I didn't pick-up on it.
I also realize that a counter-argument is that in an infinite multiverse, all ideas can exist in some form and that there is no "pure" concept that could be contaminated (unless one REALLY buys into the ideas of Plato); but much like the multiverse being around the same range of cultural advancement (e.g. no laptops or refrigerators in Sigil) one could have the ideas embodied by the planes and the living gods to be somewhat uniform and universal

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