I don't really see it as a matter of hope. When you look at your life, your actions, and your beliefs up to this point; what plane do you see them most closely reflected in?
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
If Planescape was real, what plane would end up in after death?
After much reflection, I realized that I'd probably end up in Gehenna.
- 973 reads
Thu, 2006-11-23 15:23
#3
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Thu, 2006-11-23 21:22
#4
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Well, I'm a broke college student without a driver's liscense or a car, or even a job, so I haven't had any opportunities to join Peace Corps or save innocent bystanders from supervillains. Does that mean I can't call myself Good?
Seriously, I don't really understand what you're asking.
And since I don't own any Planescape books, I'm limited to the blurbs about the different planes I can find online. So I can't even narrow it down to Neutral or Neutral/Law-leaning.
Fri, 2006-11-24 11:48
#5
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Calm yourself. There is no need to get worked up about something like this.
Fri, 2006-11-24 13:28
#6
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Awesome poll. After much thought, I decided (and voted) that I'd end up in Arborea. Second place would probably be Outlands. I'm not saying I'm particularly Good, but my own philosophy, which I try to adhere to, most closely matches the freespirited benevolence, respect of nature, and live-and-let-live outlook of Arvandor. However, I'm also very contradictory. If I can be described with one extreme word, then I can usually be described with it's extreme antonym as well. That's why I'd fit well in the Outlands. Beastlands, if anything, probably takes third place.
Fri, 2006-11-24 15:54
#7
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
I think I'd be a good fit for Bytopia. I have a respect for the law, but a greater respect for humanity (erm, gnomanity?), and I'm a pretty moral person. Despite what the Book of Exalted Deeds would lead you to believe, you do not need to actively fight evil-doers in order to be good. You simply need to care about the well-being of others.
Fri, 2006-11-24 16:23
#8
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Damn right im ending up on Ysgard. Not quite random enough for Limbo...yet. But im the kinda good side of CN. Best intentions and all that.
But id really like to end up on Elysium, taken quite a shine to Talisid as of late. Playing a druid who is devoted to him. One of the only times ive actively tried to make an Exalted character :s
Fri, 2006-11-24 16:28
#9
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Not getting worked up at all. I don't want you to think I'm worked up. I'm just saying I don't understand what qualifies as Good (as opposed to good), so I can't assume I'd count.
I know what I think in real life, but what are the standards in Planescape? I'm honestly asking because I don't have any books. Please don't think I'm worked up, I'm just clueless because I don't have Planescape books. In a multiverse where adventurers really can save people from supervillains, how high are the standards set for ordinary non-adventurers? I honestly have no clue, so I can't answer the question.
Fri, 2006-11-24 17:17
#10
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Vaevictis, now you seem defensive. In any case, as far as I can tell from piecing together descriptions of alignments, the Book of Exalted Deeds, and reading about the various planes and their inhabitants; the essence of good in DnD lies in helping or in other ways seeing to the well-being of others and making personal sacrifices (whether of time, energy, money, or blood) for the sake of others. This is to be contrasted with evil, the essence of which is harming or otherwise disregarding the well-being of others and sacrificing others (in whatever way) to yourself. If you do neither you are neutral.
Fri, 2006-11-24 21:45
#11
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Well, that helps somewhat, but it's still not clear. Is it based solely on deeds or also on beliefs? Is it there any allowance for how much opportunity/power somebody has to do different deeds? Because I can do very tiny good deeds, but I don't have the opportunity to do massive things, like donate $50 to charity in one month. I don't know if saying nice things and helping my mom out around the house would count for anything in Planescape.
Fri, 2006-11-24 21:57
#12
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
If you do whatever "good" things that are in your power to do you are good. However, since good (particularly neutral good as I understand it) is centered on self-sacrifice it is likely that you could be doing be much more. For saying nice things and helping your mother that largely depends on your motivations; if you do them simply for the sake of making others happy that is "good". Beliefs certainly matter to some extent (the outer planes are forged by belief) but evil individuals (particularly lawful evil) often times believe that what they are doing is good.
Fri, 2006-11-24 22:30
#13
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Aww... since I don't do everything in my power to do good, that probably means then that I'm only Neutral. :cry: I mean, I try to do good things, but I spend lots of time for myself too.
As for evil... I think hardly anybody actually believes they are evil.
Fri, 2006-11-24 22:46
#14
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
If you are actually beating yourself up over the fact that you spend time on yourself, it is probable that you are "good".
For evil; according to the poll three people (myself included) identified themselves as going to the lower planes, which displays a belief that they fit into the DnD conception of evil. Personally, many of actions and much of my outlook does fit into the DnD conception of evil; but in reality I do not consider myself to be evil, or believe that any objective standards of morality are possible or desirable.
Sat, 2006-11-25 00:04
#15
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
I'd most likely end up in the Grey Wastes. If I'm lucky, I'd end up in Ysgard, but that largely depends on the manner of my death and your definition of "lucky"; my fiance' would think it rather unlucky if I ended up there and not in the Wastes with her. Of course, some theories would say that I could go to both simultaneously...
When the object(s) of your worship are an established part of the setting. it's pretty much spelled out for you.
Sat, 2006-11-25 05:11
#16
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
It's hard to say for me, I cast my vote for the Abyss, since I hate just about everything and everyone, and though I respect the law, I often find myself pained to have to conform to any kind of system.
On the other hand, I believe everything I do is right, since nearly everything in the universe is opinion, and I have no conscious desire to hold incorrect opinions(therefore I don't hold incorrect opinions, therefore all my opinons are factually correct.) This may be Baatorian, since it's more logically based, though I don't know too much about the "flavor" of that plane beyond that it's Lawful Evil. If Morte from Planescape: Torment is any indication then I might not belong there, since I do believe lying is always wrong, and frown heavily on anyone who ever supports lying for any reason(even more so if it's to "preserve someone else's feelings").
Of course I think we could all find a way to cast ourselves into the Outlands. In my case it'd be because I don't want to hate/harm everything as much as nearly everything happens to deserve it.
But the other thing is I do have a great respect for animals/nature/the life therein. I just hate humans/sentience, and don't respect their lives. Animals make more sense than people. Buuuuut, there isn't really a plane like that 
Sat, 2006-11-25 05:16
#17
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
As for evil... I think hardly anybody actually believes they are evil.
Well thats one of the great debates. What IS evil? One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. But basically in D&D the callous ending of life without a 'good' and valid reason is evil, utilising energy (negative) in such a way as to harm others is generally considered evil. But in real life it is not so clear cut.
Sat, 2006-11-25 10:36
#18
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Korchuk, you sound like you belong in Gehenna.
Barking Wilder, in real life there is no "evil."
Sat, 2006-11-25 10:37
#19
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
It's hard to say for me, I cast my vote for the Abyss, since I hate just about everything and everyone, and though I respect the law, I often find myself pained to have to conform to any kind of system.
On the other hand, I believe everything I do is right, since nearly everything in the universe is opinion, and I have no conscious desire to hold incorrect opinions(therefore I don't hold incorrect opinions, therefore all my opinons are factually correct.) This may be Baatorian, since it's more logically based, though I don't know too much about the "flavor" of that plane beyond that it's Lawful Evil. If Morte from Planescape: Torment is any indication then I might not belong there, since I do believe lying is always wrong, and frown heavily on anyone who ever supports lying for any reason(even more so if it's to "preserve someone else's feelings").
Of course I think we could all find a way to cast ourselves into the Outlands. In my case it'd be because I don't want to hate/harm everything as much as nearly everything happens to deserve it.
But the other thing is I do have a great respect for animals/nature/the life therein. I just hate humans/sentience, and don't respect their lives. Animals make more sense than people. Buuuuut, there isn't really a plane like that
You would fit in perfectly in the Beastlands. You follow the natural law, but still forge your own path. You care more for animals/nature than you do society. If I understand you correctly, than that seems the place for you.
As for the definition of evil, I think it's beyond the scope of this topic. Defining alignments should have a topic for itself, if not for each alignment. For now, just go with your gut instinct and where you would feel most at home. I know few would feel at home in, say, Gehenna, but if you're the kind of person that sacrifices his time/energy in pursuit of power, then you would fit in there.
Sat, 2006-11-25 10:40
#20
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
His hatred and his disregard for human and sentient life place him firmly on the side of evil.
Sat, 2006-11-25 14:33
#21
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
... from a human perspective. But from an animal perspective that's completely logical. You watch out for yourself and respect the natural balance that supports you, but you don't place human life (I don't mention sentience as I detest the idea that only humans are sentient) on a pedestal to be revered and protected above all other life forms. Also, considering how humanity is currently raping the natural world, it would only be logical, from an animal perspective at least, to disregard or even oppose humans to preserve the status quo and thus ensure your survival. That philosophy is pure Beastlands. Just try going into the Cat Lord's prowl and starting a lumber operation... the Good cat lord will tear out your spine and it won't make her any bit more evil, despite the fact that she doesn't give a rat's tail (although for a cat, that's something) about your supposed superiority in sentience and societal obligations.
Sat, 2006-11-25 14:49
#22
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Maybe I belong in the Beastlands, then. I have plenty respect for human life and sentience... until they go against what is natural. People who think their money and comfort is more important than all life on the entire planet don't get any sympathy from me. I reject utterly the idea that humans are inherently better than animals and therefore, animals and plants have no right to live and their extinction or suffering is meaningless. Civilization is cool and neat and all, but it doesn't give people the right to cause extinction. Such attitudes make me very angry.
But then, so does callous disregard for human suffering.
I still don't know for sure if I'm more Good or Neutral, since I rarely put my time or effort where my mouth is. I mostly just sit around the house lazily, or grudgingly do my homework. But I know I'm definately not fully Chaotic or Lawful. I dislike both extremes.
I was thinking I am a touch lawful because I can't stand noise and unpredictable surroundings. I also believe that moderate amounts of law can prevent people from doing evil things to each other or to nature. But I guess giant lycanthropic druids could do that, too.
Besides, I don't know how at home I'd feel someplace where I'd be lunch in about 30 seconds. I love camping, but not getting eaten. And I don't think human society is worthless. Art and religion and architecture and literature are all awesome. I wouldn't mind the existence of towns and cities if they weren't constantly doubling in size and spewing toxic waste. There are no libraries or internet in the wilderness.
Sat, 2006-11-25 15:05
#23
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Iavas, we are looking at DnD's conception of morality; so a firm perspective is already in place. In the DnD universe non-sentient beings (those with INT less than 3) do not have moral worth. Those who defend nature even when it means killing humans and the sort are true neutral
; the Cat Lord, despite living in the Beastlands, is true neutral (epic level handbook).
In regards to how those sentiments relate to real life; I largely agree with you. Sentient means nothing more than conscious and there is considerable evidence to suggest that most if not all mammals and avians are concious; it is largely just a term used to justify are feelings of superiority and division from other animals. In any case, in nature all animals survive by preying upon other life (even herbivores end the lives of other beings to sustain their own); humanity's "raping of the natural world" is only meaningful if there is a division between us and nature. If that division is rejected, we are merely engaging in the divine dance of Life by surviving and thriving at the expense of other organisms. I live in accordance with this realization and by a personal code of honor; and while I see myself as merely adhering to my inherent nature and embracing Life, I would be classified as evil by DnD's alignment system.
Sat, 2006-11-25 15:10
#24
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Animals only kill for survival. They don't cause thousands of extinctions just for oil, or money, or fur coats and trophy heads. They don't kill when it isn't necessary.
Animals also work on instinct. Humans have more choice of how they act. People don't need to cause oil spills and global warming and a mass extinction to survive. In fact, we are imperiling our own survival as well. We are perfectly capeable of living on Earth without causing a mass extinction, but most people are ignorant of the effect they have, and many others are too selfish or greedy or apathetic to care.
Animals also don't seem capeable of the horrific cruelty to their own kind that humans are -- in particular, child abuse and torture. The most extreme forms of child abuse are in fact, counter-instinctual.
I have no idea how animals think or what kind of consciousness they have. But I know that humans are capeable of feeling empathy and compassion for each other and for other living things, and there's no excuse for throwing away those feelings.
Sat, 2006-11-25 15:37
#25
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Ya see, it was discussions of this kind that started the Blood War. Too political. Cant we just stay a little closer to the topic? It was a simple question :s Little too serious...and thats coming from ME for hells sake
Sat, 2006-11-25 16:29
#26
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
I agree with dropping the overly serious philosophy discussion. But now I really want to figure out my DnD alignment!
I'm finding it harder than I thought. Now I don't even know if I'm Lawful or Chaotic. According to this website
http://www.geocities.com/mimir.geo/dark/contra.html
my beliefs would be more or less Lawful Good.
But I hate conformity, and rules just for the sake of rules. I don't believe disorder and idleness are inherently bad. I think laws are good only if they are necessary to prevent something hurtful. And I always refuse to obey any rule that is arbitrary.
But even in a mostly good society, total lack of rules hurts people -- like when some neighbor in the dorm blasts their music at 12 am and keeps me awake all night.
I think I'm just really, really confused about what Lawful means in Planescape.
EDIT: and I'm confused how to edit my own posts :oops:
Sat, 2006-11-25 16:34
#27
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Vaevictis, I am with you in condemnation of all death that serves no purpose (I generally go out of my way to avoid killing insects). All statements of what is or isn't necessary must lead to the question of "necessary for what?" Survival is a goal shared by all, but it means much more than merely staying alive. Other animals engage in all manner of acts that most of us find repulsive such as killing the children in their pride that they did not father. I agree with you that the degree of the present disregard for the enviornment is stupid and self-destructive, and I oppose it on those grounds; but that doesn't make it evil or wrong.
Compassion and empathy are just two of many often times conflicting drives and emotions in the human mind. As with agression and contempt, there are times when they must be put aside in order to achieve a goal.
Sat, 2006-11-25 16:40
#28
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
argh double post
Sat, 2006-11-25 16:49
#29
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Vaevictis, willingness to follow rules but rejection of arbitrary rules is neutral in regard to law and chaos. It seems very clear that you are good in regard to good and evil. Someone blasting their music late at night keeping others at night is not about chaos; it is about good and evil. While I certainly would not say doing something like that would make them evil in this system, it does display a disregard for the the well-being of others and is thus not good.
Sat, 2006-11-25 17:27
#30
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Vaevictis, I am with you in condemnation of all death that serves no purpose (I generally go out of my way to avoid killing insects)
This is the type of thing I'm talking about. I believe pretty much all humans should die, because civilization and habitization to the degree it's advanced to is too disturbing to the natural state of the world. It's greater than the minimum, I'm a minimalist.
I also think the legal system is pretty much out of hand: all crimes should be punished by death, and there shouldn't be a "death row," they take you out back at sentencing and hack you up if you're guilty. This can cause errors...who cares? Better to kill all criminals and some innocents than let some criminals live for some poor sods who will probably commit crimes anyway. This concept is essentially a tyranny, but a tyranny is essentially a group that is at any given point in it's rule too powerful to be overthrown. Tyranny is ok because it's "Might is right"(i.e. the NATURAL order).
I think animals make more sense in their lack of moral compulsions(and the fact that despite all this, they seem friendlier than "moral" beings). I dislike humans because they insist on inserting morals and other meaningless fluff into systems, so that they run around in circles, never get anything done, and don't make any sense.
This is sounding more like Mechanus alot less machines :shock:
Sat, 2006-11-25 17:52
#31
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
:shock: Korchuck, if your philosophy aligns you with the Beastlands, I definately don't belong there.
Sat, 2006-11-25 18:51
#32
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Dang, Korchuk. You know, I think you're a bit too complex for the relatively simplistic Planescape alignment system. I can't pin you down, judging by your own self-descriptions, as you teeter between Beastlands and Gehenna, yet you seem too biased in both directions to be in the Outlands. Maybe you're like one of the Demented, both at the same time?
Killing wantonly is obviously Evil, but killing for survival is not. Your "might is right" quote is squarely Gehenna, but your caring for all things natural (besides humans) is more Beastlands. As I said, a bit too complex. It's really up to you to decide which you feel more strongly about on each axis.
Anyway, part of the confusion really stems from what makes Beastlands so good that it sits next to Elysium, and there's a whole different topic on that already.
Sat, 2006-11-25 19:24
#33
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Yeah, when I first heard the name "Beastlands" I thought it'd be Chaotic Evil/Chaotic Neutral, this seemed supported as I read the descriptions of each layer of the plane. Then I found out it's somehow Good 
The layout of the Outer Planes seems like an attempt to expand beyond the 9 alignments, but there was evidently more to be done when Planescape was dropped officially. I've always taken the whole D&D alignment system with a grain of salt anyway, only a bit more telling than eye color in terms of how your character really is.
Sat, 2006-11-25 19:29
#34
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
I took an online alignment test once and I was Neutral Good so I picked Elysium.
-420
Sat, 2006-11-25 20:06
#35
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Korchuk, if I ever created an evil druid his outlook would be similar to that. The outlook is definitely evil, but in regards to law and chaos things aren't as clear.
In regards to real life; I completely agree with you that might alone can be a judge of right because it is those who have power (and power can take many forms, not merely political) determine morality. I disagree with you about the natural state of the world; there is no difference between us and nature, we are part of the natural state of the world. It is by right of might that we can assert our influence over the rest of the world. Crime being punished by death; if that was the case I would be dead a while ago. I assume that means nothing to you and I respect that. But it is those who are in power that decide what is a crime; so ultimately using your system whoever is in power could kill anyone they want. They have that right, but we have the right to prevent that (provided that we have the might). Hence the creation of fictions such as leadership being a form of service and moral systems where everyone has to follow the same code of conduct regardless of their power. These systems are fine for the regulation of the masses but if you disagree with them there is no reason why you should feel obligated to follow them. Morality is only relevant insofar as it is legislated, and laws only matter to the extent that others have the power to enforce them.
Sat, 2006-11-25 23:41
#36
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Well, on points where we disagree:
In regards to real life; I completely agree with you that might alone can be a judge of right because it is those who have power (and power can take many forms, not merely political) determine morality.
I believe power only takes one form, physical. Physical power, raw killing is the only type of power that can be measured in numbers, 0 or 1, you're alive or dead, and he who is dead does nothing further. The only thing that can make a prediction of a battle wrong is human error on the part of the predicted winner, or simple equality in might between both sides. Social power or Political power can't be measured in numbers in any meaningful way, despite Political Science, politics is not a science.
In a strange paradox, this is why I believe arguing is pointless(I usually ignore people I disagree with), that is, I believe that nobody can ever be made to believe anything by any outside influence. The role of outside factors in changing one's mind on something can't be measured in numbers.
Summary: If it can't be measured in numbers, it's not real(at least as a factor with regards to change of any sort).
I disagree with you about the natural state of the world; there is no difference between us and nature, we are part of the natural state of the world.
We are, but the things we make aren't. I look at it this way: only humans make buildings from steel. If humans weren't here, there would be none.
On the other hand, a very large number of animals make fesces: if humans were gone, there would still be fesces somewhere in the world.
"Steel structures" is just one of a vast multitude of thing that only humans make/do. This is because humans are an anomaly in the system. Remove any one specie and the effects on the world system would be sizable, but nowhere near as large as removing humans. It's an imbalance.
But it is those who are in power that decide what is a crime; so ultimately using your system whoever is in power could kill anyone they want.
But they should only want to kill people who make sense to kill(i.e. disturbers of balance, opposition to them, rampant unsanctioned killers, thieves, etc.). Anything else is illogical. Of course, just about any human placed in such a position would start making tons of illogical killings, and kill anyone they wanted, even if they did nothing in particular(i.e. expressed intelligent but peaceful dissent to the person, or any other person, looked ugly, was 2 lbs heavier than he liked, etc.)
Why? Because humans don't make sense. Humans are the only totally unpredictable creature on the planet. No mating seasons, no limit to what they'll make, no forseeable stagnation point, migrating for reasons unique to them, making decisions for reasons they can't even explain, ending their own lives prematurely. In Planescape terms, Humans are the real-life exemplars of Chaos. This is why I dislike pretty much every human I've ever met.
In other words, using "my system" would be pretty unwise, if only because people are too irrational to be in control of anything.
It all sort of inter-ties: People disturb the natural order because they're unpredictable because they can't be influenced in any numerically measurable way and tend to go haywire when given power, or the opportunity to obtain power for no predictable/numerically measurable reason.
Sun, 2006-11-26 13:30
#37
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
After about, oh, thirty seconds, it was obvious: Baator.
I love lying, scheming, and manipulating, and I respect those who do it better than I. I care more about myself than others, but am willing to work with others to further my own agenda. I try to implement logic in all of my decisions, rather than giving into my emotions. Furthermore, I am principled; I perfer using the mind instead of the sword. I believe that one should try a many methods as possible to maintain order, and kill only if it is necessary. As such, I'm pretty Lawful Evil, and nothing is more Lawful Evil than Baator.
Though, I'd rather skip the Lemure phase...
Sun, 2006-11-26 17:58
#38
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
So 6 out of 17 are going to go to hell. You guys are somewhat freaking, you know?..
Sun, 2006-11-26 18:23
#39
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Kay... (sighs and shakes head slowly) haven't you ever read the Jack Chick comics? All of us who play Dungeons and Dragons are going to Hell. http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp
Sun, 2006-11-26 18:31
#40
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
So how do I figure between Elysium and the Beastlands? Do strong feelings about conservation automatically align me with Beastlands? Or would also liking civilisation balance against that? What themes (other than alignment) are unique to Elysium?
Sun, 2006-11-26 18:39
#41
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Debbie, I told you Jesus is the only answer. I've been praying and fasting for you.
Haha, oh lol.
@Asmadi Maybe that Beethoven created a song about it's daughter?
Sun, 2006-11-26 18:40
#42
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
The predominant theme of Elysium is altruism; selflessly giving to others without the expectation of reward. This link gives the themes of each alignment: http://www.mimir.net/essays/morals.html
That failing, click on the link of my previous post and trust in Jack Chick to guide your soul.
Sun, 2006-11-26 19:08
#43
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Thank you MakThuumNgatha, but I've already read those essays (on a different webpage) and it pegged me as LG which doesn't agree with me at all (I have a strong desire to break arbitrary rules, and as you pointed out, that isn't DnD-Lawful).
Elysium doesn't have any connection to knoweldge and learning, does it?
Sun, 2006-11-26 19:19
#44
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Going by the mimir.net essays, I'd actually be either Carceri, or Arcadia(and it's REALLY hard to tell which).
They both totally fit(Arcadia misses on some minor points), but they don't seem mutually exclusive.
Sun, 2006-11-26 19:31
#45
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Vaevictis, If you disagree with the basic tenents of lawful good, how did those essays peg you as such? Elysium doesn't have any inherent connection to knowledge and learning but there is a disproportionate number of gods connected to knowledge and learning who live there. What does knowledge and learning mean to you? Does it provide you tools to help others? To help yourself? To understand the underlying order behind all things? Or is it an end unto itself?
There are some alignment tests out there, this one probably being the best: http://www.pa.msu.edu/~aaronson/alitest/aintro.html
But it sounds like you already have yourself narrowed down to neutral good.
Sun, 2006-11-26 19:39
#46
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Korchuk, Arcadia and Carceri are pretty damn mutually exclusive. The philosoph of the former insists upon following the law to the letter whereas the philosophy of the latter recommends breaking the law to help yourself.
Your previous post in response to mine expressed beliefs that could definitely be classified as lawful evil.
Sun, 2006-11-26 22:25
#47
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
That was a nice test. Like the last one I took, it gave me NG.
Knowledge... I like learning about the laws of nature. But I don't view them as laws, because some arbitrary person didn't create them to impose their dumb ideas about orderliness on somebody else. They just are. Nature is Neutral.
I also love learning for its own sake. Some things are just interesting. Of course, many of them happen to be the settings of fictional or mythical universes.
I think my problem with Law and Chaos is that, like my example in the other thread, I somewhat "break" the DnD system. I think the particular philosophy assigned to Celestia is not quintessential LG, but just one possible form of LG. And the love of nature doesn't have to be C-leaning. I strongly espouse some of the tenants described for Celestia, Beastlands, and Arborea. But I strongly reject other aspects of LG (such as conformity, uniformity, arbitrary rules, and cultural customs), and oddly, I mostly reject the philosophy described for Bytopia. I also disagree strongly with some things described for Chaos. I'm more or less both L and C at the same time. Which is fine, OK I'm Neutral, but it means I can't easily narrow it down between Beastlands and Elysium.
Since I somehow ended up halfway between Beastlands and Celestia but anti-Bytopia, I'll just vote for Elysium. Close enough.
Sun, 2006-11-26 23:13
#48
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
18 people so far. 8 good, 4 morally neutral, 6 evil. 1 lawful, 11 ethically neutral, 6 chaotic. This amounts to a slight tendency of good over evil and a strong tendency away from neutrality; this is to be expected, I suspect that some people who might perhaps be better classified as neutral called themselves good because of the dualistic nature of the predominant western morality (heaven or hell), and figured they don't hurt anyone so they aren't evil and must thus be good. Of course I am extremely cynical. Strong tendency away from law, but more towards ethical neutrality than chaos. This is easy to understand without resorting to cynicism, since conformity is a large aspect of lawfulness and people who spend there time playing dungeons and dragons are not conforming to cultural expectations. But still the majority of us aren't particularly wild and thus chaotic.
Mon, 2006-11-27 13:30
#49
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Was that weird quasireligious Christian comic real? Do people actually think that way? :shock: Society scares me sometimes.
Mon, 2006-11-27 14:26
#50
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
That "quasireligious" Christian comic was real. As I assume many of you know, Dungeons and Dragons was strongly condemned by many Christian groups in the 1980's (and still is, but to an ever lessening extent); and that Jack Chick fellow spearheaded the opposition. If you surf his site you'll find a number of delightful gems, my favorite being a comic that explains how the religion of Islam was actually founded in a vast conspiracy by the Roman Catholic church (who evidently serve Satan).
Mon, 2006-11-27 18:33
#51
Where would you end up as a petitioner?
Was that weird quasireligious Christian comic real? Do people actually think that way? :shock: Society scares me sometimes.
You've never seen those Christian tracts before?
Oh MAN I love those, I used to collect them and laugh my ass off, which I don't think was appreciated by my classmates/teachers at the Christian school I went to. But these religious nuts were always handing them out and since I collected comics and cards I figured, "Hey, I'll collect these and maybe they'll be worth something to some rich religious nut years from now."
The D&D suicide one is definitely my favorite, with the "Jesus is as tough as a truck driver" brining up a close second. There was a good one about witchcraft too but the "D&D voodoo" one is just priceless. "Dad bought me $200 worth of D&D stuff!!" ha ha ha haaaaa! She didn't have magic powers, she was just a daddy's girl!
Hmm, I'm beginning to understand why I have been asked to leave every church I've ever attended. Bah, religious fundamentalists have no sense of humor, especially about themselves.
my favorite being a comic that explains how the religion of Islam was actually founded in a vast conspiracy by the Roman Catholic church (who evidently serve Satan).
Priceless!! Whew, you just can't make up stuff that good so it must be real! heh
-420
I hope I would end up in Elysium of Bytopia, but I'm not cosmic judge of souls or anything.