Where is the Anti-Sigil?

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Krypter's picture
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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

Fell & Fidrikon had an idea so interesting it deserves its own thread:

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"Fell" wrote:
If you're looking to try something different, why not turn the torus inside out... Have the Cage on the outside of the ring, rather than the inside.

I just thought of something.

Imagine (unless you're a Signer in which case please dont think of anything), an Anti-Sigil on the outside of the Torus... two differant cities in an inverse Bytopia-like situation.

Sigil has portals to everywhere.
Anti-sigil would have no portals whatsoever. And with the Ladys astral lock that means they would have no connection with the multiverse at all.

All that would have to happen for the two to meet is tunnel, hidden deep withing UnderSigil, which joins an Undersigil look alike on the outer side. The reason no ones found it yet: Because Its well hidden and with all the creatures about no one really likes to look around too long.

Could be an intresting Idea. Maybe it could even double as some sort of Sigil shadow plane?

Wouldn't that place the Anti-Sigil really high above the spire, on the Outlands? Then perhaps the place is full of Rilmani? Instead of trusting dabus servants, the Lady of Pain (or her inverse counterpart) rules with the Rilmani as her instruments of balance. Or perhaps the Kamerel (sp?), the reclusive predecessors of the Centered Ones, hold sway in this, their last redoubt? In that case, maybe Unsigil is only accessible through mirrors or the fabled Ordial plane?

Anybody have a good name for the Anti-Sigil? Glyph, perhaps? Logos?

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

Quote:
Fell & Fidrikon...
Sounds like the name for some new kind of crazy planar duo or business partnership...

As for the concept of the Anti-Sigil, I've tinkered with an idea similar to this before, only it was about the Spire.

Similar in respect to the conception of "anti-crimes", the Anti-Spire balances all things by elimination but also enhances all things as well as they draw closer to the Anti-Spire itself. Of course, the enhancing factor of the Anti-Spire is directly proportional to the draining effects of the Spire itself... only in the opposite direction -- rimward instead of Spireward. So in effect, it completely balances all things out, but at the same time, cancels out that balance as well.

Thus the paradox that is the Anti-Outlands is born.

The common conception would be to suggest that the Anti-Spire is in fact an "inverted Spire". But that only posits the opposite to the general shape of the Spire, rather than its function... which is the more important element.

I never really defined where exactly the Anti-Spire was, or even if it laid in the center of the Anti-Outlands. The Anti-Spire could have been everywhere and nowhere in the Anti-Outlands... a direct opposite to the physical presence of the Spire. It might also have reached toward infinity just like the Spire above, only downwards relative to a person standing on the underside of the Outlands. For me, the most crucial aspect was suggesting the Anti-Spire as the opposing element of the Spire equation.

As for what the Anti-Sigil in this conception would be like... well...

jordarad's picture
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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

You guys are looking for opposites where you should be looking for THREES.

Fidrikon's picture
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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

Good point on the rule of three thing.

I wasnt really planing on a whole the antispire thing. Althouth it would be a really cool idea. I was more things of the place as... lets call it outer Sigil. AntiSigil brings in complicated issues of negitives and whatnot.

Basically, the outer Sigil reigon is just another City that has become completly out of touch with the rest of the multiverse. Maybe its just a giant Civilization of Dabus, our an advanced Rilmani Outpost.
Maybe its the Lady of Pain's secret garden.
Maybe its a bleek wastland like area where the only residents are Sigilians that wandered in andcant find the way out.

Or maybe you could even think of it as a Sigil Below type thing
(subtle Neverwhere reference)

But its not in a completly new area, or on a differnat plane. It just exists on the outside of the Torus.

As for the rule of three, I got it. Inner Sigil (the Cage), Outer Sigil ( The REAL Cage, no portals), and Undersigil, the mass of mazes that, somewhere deep in , join the two.

** Idea: Maybe theres a mass of creations In outer Sigil that
a) Blocks the Spires Antimagic powers, allowing sigil to exist normally inside
b) Cuts off the rest of the planes from Sigil, and Maybe even has to do with how the Lady of Pain controls portals.

Either way, the residents are the descendents of people that were entrusted with the care of the machines, and have forgotten waht their purpose is, but keep maintaining it.

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

"Fidrikon" wrote:
As for the rule of three, I got it. Inner Sigil (the Cage), Outer Sigil ( The REAL Cage, no portals), and Undersigil, the mass of mazes that, somewhere deep in , join the two.
Possible expansion: How do you see the inhabitants gaining access to either Inner or Outer Sigil?

As we know, travelling over the rim is never a wise thing to attempt. And digging into the mantle beneath the Cage doesn't always lead to the otherside of the torus...

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

Well, first off, there are two layers of undersigil, the Inner and Outer layer.
There is only one ( or maybe just a few, but in any case rare) passage (passages) That join inner undersigil and outer undersigil. Most people that go through never even realize what just happened.

The reason no one knows about Outer Sigil:
1) The passage is very deep in the undersigil tunnels, hard to find on a good day, and even harder when you have to worry about the creatures that live there.
2) those that do find it either ignore it, or go through, wander around outer undersigil ( not realizing the change, considering it all looks alike) and turns around, heading back to Inner Sigil.
3) Those that do manage to find their way to Outer Sigil either cant find their way back, get their fool selves killed in Outer Sigil, or are eaten by the things that live in Undersigil on the way back.
4) Maybe a few people managed to beat the odds, and got their and back. They sold this information to the Highest bidders, so maybe a few of the more influencial residents of Sigil (Shemmy and Estavan, for starters)

And as for the other side coming here, they would face the first three problems, with the fourth being that any that did make it over here would seem to be nothing more then the average clueless, and would promptly get eaten, probably because they walked in front of a Tan'ari in the street.

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

There was mention of the Rule of Three. What if the 3rd Sigil is the City of Doors for the gods. They can go there and have something of a society. Any god is welcome save one, the Lady. Since she prohibits their presence in the original Sigil, they snub her. She may or may not even know about it. Maybe "Sigil3" is where "lost gods" go. Some fade away. Some become floating hulks in the Astral. Some goto Sigil3, either voluntarily or involuntarily.

I just threw this idea out there. I haven't given it any depth of thought. Laughing out loud

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

"edobrzel" wrote:
What if the 3rd Sigil is the City of Doors for the gods. They can go there and have something of a society.
Sounds a little the Cynosure in the Realms cosmology.

Do you see this third-Sigil as a type of meeting ground for the deities? Can they enact decisions there? Who has control over the domain itself? Or, is it a neutral realm that no power can manipulate?

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

"Fidrikon" wrote:
The reason no one knows about Outer Sigil:

It's probably the same as the Soul Cage.

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

"Fell" wrote:
Sounds a little the Cynosure in the Realms cosmology.

Do you see this third-Sigil as a type of meeting ground for the deities? Can they enact decisions there? Who has control over the domain itself? Or, is it a neutral realm that no power can manipulate?

Yeah, it does sound a bit like Cynosure, but I was envisioning more of a city if not society than simply a meeting place. I'm not sure who has ultimate power. Maybe nobody. Maybe one is appointed steward. Maybe there is a "council". If the "lost gods" aspect is worked into it, maybe they are the ones that control the place. Again, it was a random thought that I/we are now exploring.

Maybe when dieties die, their bodies go to the Astral, but their souls go to Sigil3. Maybe not all of them, but some of them. They might be like petitioners where they don't fully remember their past. Or maybe some gods go there before their death, to avoid their death. Over the eons there have been countless pantheons. Where did they all go? Some say they are absorbed by the planes.

More ideas thrown out there to see what "sticks" or to generate ideas.

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

So this third sigil is like heaven/hell for gods but wheres the lady in this could it possible that thers a nega LOP ?

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

If Sigil is a soul cage, that would explain many things, including why there aren't thousands of ghosts of dead bashers haunting the place if they can't leave (ghosts can't use portals, right?). Assume those souls go to Anti-Sigil/Outer Sigil/Sigil3. Then what?

Perhaps the whole Sigil1/2/3 construct exists *outside* of the multiverse? That would explain why jumping into the "gray nothing" at the edge of Sigil leads to...who knows? The power of the souls keeps the gods at bay and permanently places Sigil outside of any Great Wheel alignment or allegiance.

edobrzel's picture
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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

"sphagetti man" wrote:
So this third sigil is like heaven/hell for gods but wheres the lady in this could it possible that thers a nega LOP ?

I didn't quite follow all of that. But anyway, the more I think about it the less I think of it as a heaven/hell type of place... maybe a purgatory or "somewhere else". I also don't want it to be like another Cynosure. I kind of like the idea of it being a place for lost gods, both willing and unwilling. Maybe old Zeus was hit by the equivalent to a Maze and ended up in Sigil3. *shrug*

Heh. I originally tossed the idea out as a mostly random thought. If someone has other ideas about Sigil3, speak up! Smiling

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

"Krypter" wrote:
Perhaps the whole Sigil1/2/3 construct exists *outside* of the multiverse? That would explain why jumping into the "gray nothing" at the edge of Sigil leads to...who knows? The power of the souls keeps the gods at bay and permanently places Sigil outside of any Great Wheel alignment or allegiance.

I know it wasn't canon, but I always thought of Sigil as existing outside of the multiverse. It doesn't belong to the normal rules. Yeah, yeah, great spire, big ring on top. Those are the physical ties that span across the boundries, or are simply an illusion.

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

"jordarad" wrote:
You guys are looking for opposites where you should be looking for THREES.

And thus was born the Unspire: an infinity that goes nowhere.

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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

And the Unspire acts as the focus for all unbelief in the multiverse...

moogle001's picture
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Where is the Anti-Sigil?

Another good idea worth fleshing out and preserving within the Planewalker databases! Send it over to me and I'll find a home for it.

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