What were the Faction Wars?

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Paka's picture
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What were the Faction Wars?

I have seen references to it and I'm not yet done reading the Planescape boxed set and the Sigil book I got.

Can anyone sum it up in a sentence or two?

Is it from a later book? Is it from this site?

Thanks.

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What were the Faction Wars?

Well in a general sense its just the battles for influence among the various factions. In the more particular sense you have likely seen reference to on this site is an adventure module called Faction War written by Monte Cook.
Below is a minor spoiler but if you have read much material on this site you already know the information about what happens to the factions.

At the conclusion of the module the factions are kicked out of Sigil by the lady of Pain and all but one of the leaders of the various groups are killed along with many members. Those that say in Sigil have basically joined guilds and such. So in the current Planewalker material which is post faction war the factions power is broken in Sigil and those that survived (or split) have gone out into the planes to establish new bases or fortify old ones rather than basing themselves in Sigil as before.

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What were the Faction Wars?

bonemage, thanks for always chiming in to help a clueless berk.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, here but doesn't that change in the setting kind of gut the boxed set? Isn't the entire point of adventuring in this setting to play out the struggles between the factions and their philosophies?

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What were the Faction Wars?

Well yes and no there certainly is a lot of material from Planescape that is centered around Sigil and the factions. The big reason for this of course is that Sigil is a very convienent location to base planar adventures from giving you a big city (access to items, information, jobs etc.) that has access to everyone the DM could possibly want to send the adventures.

That being said the majority of the information from the Planescape line is outside of Sigil (though Sigil is by far the most detailed single location). The basic boxed set did contain a lot of information on Sigil and of that maybe half was on the factions or faction related.

So I guess to quit rambling I have read in a few places that Monte Cook and the Planescape team never intended the factions to be shut out of Sigil forever and many DM's prefer to play pre faction war Planescape because they enjoy the factions so much.

Not really sure that is the exact answer you were looking for but I hope it helps.

P.S. Also its not like most of the factions went away they have simply fanned out onto the planes and still have low end agents and such in the city. So you can still use the factions in your campaign if using the complete Planewalker material they just don't dominate Sigil like they used to. so if you played it that way barring the few faction splits that happened really the only place faction war changed massisivly was Sigil and a few other strongholds of the factions.

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What were the Faction Wars?

As always, Bonemage, thanks for the response. That is what I was looking for.

I am going to stick to a pre-Faction War setting, operating mostly out of the boxed set and the guide to Sigil. Both of which look like cool, cool stuff.

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What were the Faction Wars?

A lot of people simply ignore Faction War because it does disrupt the premise of the setting and alters Sigil quite a lot. Planewalker decided to go with the time after Faction War so that they weren't just rehashing old stuff. Faction War opens up more opportunities for people who may have grown tired of the traditional arrangement. However, almost all published PS material supports the original setting, not FW. I run my game pre-Faction War, as do many other people on these boards. YMMV.

Minor Note: questions like these should go into the RPG Discussion section.

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What were the Faction Wars?

Thanks for the response, Krypter.

"Krypter" wrote:
I run my game pre-Faction War, as do many other people on these boards. YMMV.

You use d20 to run Planescape?

Are there many different systems represented on these boards?

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What were the Faction Wars?

"Paka" wrote:
Thanks for the response, Krypter.

"Krypter" wrote:
I run my game pre-Faction War, as do many other people on these boards. YMMV.

You use d20 to run Planescape?

Are there many different systems represented on these boards?

Planewalker is specifically for the updating of Planescape to the current edition of D&D. The official rules and setting are made with post-faction war in mind because it was the last modual published for planescape.

I like the way they have done it. While yes it would seem that this change destroys one of the biggest most intrical parts of the setting, it does not. The factions no longer rule Sigil but they are not out on the wider planes more than ever and new factions are now rearing their heads. The lady's edict plays up another aspect of the game that is important to the setting as well.

Also while the factions themselves are booted out from having their head quarters and power heads in Sigil, factioneers still abound.

Things are different.

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What were the Faction Wars?

"Gerzel" wrote:
Things are different.

And for that very reason, the original PS team gets the same kind of credit as White Wolf for designing a setting which doesn't just keep plodding back to the status quo.

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What were the Faction Wars?

But Paka to answer your followup question I think you can certainly use most of the stuff posted on Planewalker in a 3rd edition game that is being played pre faction war. Much of the material put up deals with races, magic and other aspects of the planes that aren't really directly affected by the factions. But "storyline" things would often not be useful like Shemeka's sigil chapter which details post faction war sigil. But I for one am considering work on the innerplanes and ir/when I do that it would certainly be useable in a pre or post faction war setting.

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What were the Faction Wars?

OT:

"Persephone Imytholin" wrote:
the same kind of credit as White Wolf for designing a setting which doesn't just keep plodding back to the status quo.

Huh? Did World of Darkness go back to status quo more than once?

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What were the Faction Wars?

I think he was talking about them not going back like when they totally reorganized the supernatural world after it largly got destroyed in a line of supplements.

I can say this for certain (being I have not played or know much about these settings other than Ravenloft) but I assume settings like Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Dark Sun and Birthright haven't really changed in such dramatic fashions. When they add supplements they add more material to the existing world rather than shaking the setting up in a big way like White Wolf and the Planescape team has done.

If I am wrong about those other settings being more "static" someone please correct me because as I said I don't know much of anything about them. Even Ravenloft I just own a bunch of 2nd edition supplements mainly 2 different core settings (Realm of Terror box Set and Domains of Dread setting) and the Van Ritchen guides.

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What were the Faction Wars?

She. But, otherwise, yes.

Modern WoD was definitely designed to have a limited lifespan. Presumably PS was the same - FW being by far the most dramatic example - of plot effects carrying on and having a continuous, rather than episodic, setting.

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What were the Faction Wars?

I don't know if you deliberately left Dragonlance out of your list of main D&D settings, but I know that Dragonlance has had some fairly big shake ups in it's plotline.

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What were the Faction Wars?

Sorry about calling you a guy Persephone Impytholin, :oops:

Yeah I did leave out Dragonlance on purpose though with their shakeup it seemed to do more with TSR trying to make a popular world into a new game.... But yeah it most likely had the biggest shakeup of any offical D&D setting to my knowledge with the events of the Chaos War.

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What were the Faction Wars?

But I want the players to shake up the world, not some game writer.

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What were the Faction Wars?

And they certainly can I think the big point is that game settings can change over time. Also in Faction War the characters have a huge role in shaking up the setting. I am running pre faction war myself right now but eventually I will run faction war and transition future campaigns fully into planewalker material.

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What were the Faction Wars?

"bonemage" wrote:
And they certainly can I think the big point is that game settings can change over time. Also in Faction War the characters have a huge role in shaking up the setting. I am running pre faction war myself right now but eventually I will run faction war and transition future campaigns fully into planewalker material.

I haven't looked at those modules at all, don't really plan to but they are written by Monte Cook, who writes good stuff.

I'm not a big fan of settings moving on. I like when the entire setting is poised on the brink of fantastic drama and adventure, just as the players arrive to push the boulder down the hill and get the excitement moving.

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What were the Faction Wars?

Most of the time I agree with you I mean I am certainly not really a huge fan of the faction war realignment however I am finding it would actually be easier to prepare for a non faction run Sigil. There is less information to take on without the factions all in each other faces from the start. I mean I am still going to attempt to introduce them slowly but you need to have a bigger understanding of Sigil from the get go I think to run a party based there with factions still around.

On the other hand I think the changes in Dragonlance were pretty cool I mean if they had originally come out with the changed without that new game it would have been great. I think the new setting for DL looks great and its nice not to stick a small setting like Dragonlance in one spot forever. I mean if you were a long time fan what would you even do in the Dragonlance at this point especially if your the world shaker type adventurer....

Also Paka the Faction war stuff was the characters making the difference... Are you saying that published adventures should never have an outcome that affects the setting? Maybe I am wrong but that seems to be what you are saying because again Faction war while written is an adventure for the characters to partispate in...

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What were the Faction Wars?

"Paka" wrote:
I'm not a big fan of settings moving on. I like when the entire setting is poised on the brink of fantastic drama and adventure, just as the players arrive to push the boulder down the hill and get the excitement moving.

I don't mean to sound rude here but what you're saying seems to be not quite connected. Well lemme explain. You say that you are not keen on the idea of the setting moving on because you like the setting to be poised on the brink of great upheaval.

However just because the setting has moved on doesn't mean it is not still poised on any brinks for more upheaval or even that the greatest amount of change and shaking has been had from the plot in Faction War.

I agree that a good setting for adventuring will have a sort of tension built in but that tension need not be overwhelming or even apperently close to breaking. While the current PW Sigil is in a state of calm after the faction wars, with the dust having finally settled things still have not been resolved. The Lady's Edict after FW was merely a stop to the direct conflict in the city itself, not the planes beyond. Also there are many more mysteries left unsolved and plots left unfinished.

In the end, Sigil was probably only the first battle ground of the Factions. The wars of Belief could very well out do those of the Blood.

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What were the Faction Wars?

"bonemage" wrote:
I can say this for certain (being I have not played or know much about these settings other than Ravenloft) but I assume settings like Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Dark Sun and Birthright haven't really changed in such dramatic fashions.

I'm not certain, but I'm fairly sure that that's not true of Dark Sun. Indeed, one of the major complaints against it -- and what TSR/WoTC retrospectively considered to be its marketing weakness -- was that the setting changed too dramatically too quickly (in the Cerulean Storm, or whatever that thing was called), thus never attaining a distinctive branding.

[As an aside: FR changed radically after the Time of Troubles but so did AD&D so that might not count. The setting with the greatest continuity is Greyhawk, I think, which has remained pretty consistent throughout.]

I happen to like DS (from afar, never actually played it) but I can imagine how torqued I would have been at the sheer level of change in an already-nonstandard setting; "planned obsolescence" would have been the nicest thing to cross my lips, I assure you.

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What were the Faction Wars?

"Gerzel" wrote:
"Paka" wrote:
I'm not a big fan of settings moving on. I like when the entire setting is poised on the brink of fantastic drama and adventure, just as the players arrive to push the boulder down the hill and get the excitement moving.

I don't mean to sound rude here but what you're saying seems to be not quite connected. Well lemme explain. You say that you are not keen on the idea of the setting moving on because you like the setting to be poised on the brink of great upheaval.

However just because the setting has moved on doesn't mean it is not still poised on any brinks for more upheaval or even that the greatest amount of change and shaking has been had from the plot in Faction War.

I agree that a good setting for adventuring will have a sort of tension built in but that tension need not be overwhelming or even apperently close to breaking. While the current PW Sigil is in a state of calm after the faction wars, with the dust having finally settled things still have not been resolved. The Lady's Edict after FW was merely a stop to the direct conflict in the city itself, not the planes beyond. Also there are many more mysteries left unsolved and plots left unfinished.

In the end, Sigil was probably only the first battle ground of the Factions. The wars of Belief could very well out do those of the Blood.

It isn't rude to attack my ideas, Gerzel, only rude to attack me.

As Jules said in Pulp Fiction, allow me to retort.

I have this Planescape material and I'm eager to take it out and play.

I find out that a module that I never ran my players on and never particularly plan to has changed Sigil dramatically before I've even been able to take my toys out of the toy box.

I don't need any post-Faction War material. I don't plan on running PS with d20, so I have no need for PrC's, monsters and magic rules. I have all that I need and more.

The post-Faction War Planescape setting might very well be poised on the brink of great adventure, no doubt. There is certainly work to do but I have a problem telling my players that there was this great adventure and their characters missed it. Nah, why do that when I can just start with the original material and go from there?

I don't use published material often. Creating a setting is half of the fun for me. If I do end up using Sigil it will be out of nostalgia and because I think it was the finest D&D setting ever published.

When settings change without player input, it seems like it is because there are people who read setting books like novels, eager to see what happens next. I am not interested in the story behind the scenes. I want this material purely for the way it will inspire me and my table to create stories of our own.

:twisted: Aye, feel free to disagree, scream and rail against my ideas. Evil

Smiling Just don't scream and rail at me. Laughing out loud

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What were the Faction Wars?

"Anarch" wrote:
The setting with the greatest continuity is Greyhawk, I think, which has remained pretty consistent throughout.

They revamped that setting too, in the Greyhawk Wars that tore apart most of the old political boundaries, nearly wiping out a major human ethnic group (the Flan, who got completely hosed), many of the major nations being swallowed up, imploding, or conquered by giants. Fiends overran the world. A mysterious island nation was devoured by an abrupt migration of ravenous elves. The relative ranks of the lesser and greater gods were recalculated, due to the introduction of the "intermediate" rank. This was the period that inspired Colin McComb to write, in On Hallowed Ground, that Greyhawk was dying. It looked like it was going to be torn apart and pulled into the Lower Planes.

At the same time, that period (where the supplements were written almost exclusively by Carl Sargent) saw by far the best-written of the Greyhawk books. Even people who hated the Greyhawk Wars - and there were many - tended to like all the history and detail suddenly added

In 1998 there was an attempt to back-track, handing a number of major defeats to the large evil nations that had been efficiently dividing the world between them and allowing the setting to stabilize and find its ground. It also marked a surge of super-obscure old material being suddenly incorporated into the campaign, which was kind of neat in a nerdy way.

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What were the Faction Wars?

"Paka" wrote:
You use d20 to run Planescape?

Are there many different systems represented on these boards?

I use a homebrew system based on Talislanta and bits of d20. Ironically, Talislanta is now being published in d20.

I've run across people using Storyteller and GURPS for Planescape, but generally people seem to be sticking to D&D 2E and 3E.

As for metaplot, some people love it, some people hate it. It works great in some settings (like Shadowrun), but not-so-well in others (Forgotten Realms). I don't see any evidence of continuous metaplot in the published PS books, so I assume the authors meant Faction War to be a temporary disruption.

This may be tick off some people, but luckily you don't really need Planewalker to have a great Planescape campaign. As long as you can track down the published books on Ebay or get an electronic copy, you've got all you need to have a great time. Planewalker and PSCS is just icing on the cake.

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What were the Faction Wars?

I guess I stand corrected though I think the Realms change may have been before I even started gaming being that I was going during AD&D second edition in the mid 90's the Time of Troubles was already history by then. But again I must add while I was in my peak of gaming I never touched Realms at all (other than Dragon/Dungeon articles on it). I bought a copy of a Realms boxed set I saw really cheap on ebay that I am now thinking may be a first edition box.

It has a warrior on a horse on the cover he is holding a spear with feathers as well as a shield. There is no mention of 2nd edition on the cover but sometimes supplements leave that out... Also on the text it says a new campaign world for Advanced Dungeons and Dragons game... leading me to believe it is indeed first edition.... Have yet to even open the box other than to check what material was in it...

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"bonemage" wrote:
It has a warrior on a horse on the cover he is holding a spear with feathers as well as a shield.

Yeah, that's the 1e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.

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