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Urban Planescape - How the project ended up here

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Tue, 2005-02-01 20:30
#1
Edward Davis
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Urban Planescape - How the project ended up here

Hello people! Most of you know me as Edward Davis, but some of you may also know me as EvilSandwich, founder and co-creator of the Urban Planars projet.

The Urban Planars project was originially just a thread in the d20 Modern section of the Wizards of the Coast message boards. It started out as a simple thread with a simple premise, "What if I wanted to put a modern/futuristic spin on the outer planes".

Before I could blink, dozens of people created hundreds of posts containing truckloads of great ideas and mind-boggling concepts. From the Limitless Arrays of Logos, the Atomic Wasteland of Hades, the Elemental Express, not to mention the war between the people of Earth and the Githyanki. Soon, this pile of random ideas slowly, but surely, started to form into a full-fledged campaign setting.

This project was very near and dear to myself, Persephone and many, many others, until, one day, a representive from Wizards of the Coast contacted us and more or less stated that we technically weren't allowed to do the project.

Quote:
"I brought this to our brand managers, and their decision is to stick with our general policy of not giving permission to use our PI in such projects. As Strutinan correctly pointed out on the board, public distribution of PI, regardless of whether free or for pay, can be seen to cause diffusion of ownership and we must therefore make these decisions in order to protect our rights to the property.

Sorry to disappoint you."

It was an understandable decision, but a metaphorical kick to the balls none the less. Persephone tried to save my idea by attempting to rework the metaplot, but almost all of us lost our will and drive to work on it. Crushed and disappointed as we were.

However, two days ago, I was browsing the old Urban Planar boards for old times sake, when I spotted a post by some guy calling himself Loki De Carabas:

Quote:
"Please come on over to planewalker. I LOVE the stuff y'all have come up with and am actively integrating it into a Dragonstar game I am working on. There is too much work invested and too many creative ideas integrated to allow a product identity issue to kill you.

I am a fan of the Urban Planes Project,
George "Loki," Williams
DM-Warriors of the Balance Campaign
Planescape: Planewalker.Com The Official Planescape Site Section Mgr for Snail Outfitters /snail/index.php
Spelljammer: Beyond The Moons, The Official Spelljammer Site Contributing Artist/Developer http://www.spelljammer.org
Spelljammer: Into The Void (Coming Soon) d20 Reviewer"

Please tell me that I'm not just having a wonderful dream, because I am three seconds from contacting Persephone and breathing life back into this project once again. If Planewalker.com would be willing to take us under their wing, I will eagerly jump back into the project. As would many others.

*crosses fingers*

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Tue, 2005-02-01 21:01
#2
Clueless
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Bout Bloody TIME!!! Me and Ken been tryin' t' get ahold o' you folks ferever but couldn't put names together! Eye-wink

Tue, 2005-02-01 21:16
(Reply to #2) #3
Edward Davis
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And I was right under your nose the whole time.

Go figure... Sticking out tongue

Tue, 2005-02-01 21:17
(Reply to #3) #4
Enzo Sarlas
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Funny how things just come together, isn't it.

I confess I haven't seen your stuff over at the WotC boards, but I really look forward to reading it and playing it. From everything I've seen here, there's definitely a burning desire among PW members to mix d20 Modern with the style and philosophies of Planescape. 'Course you already know that from playing here on the PW forums.

Hey Barkin, if yer readin' this... I told ye tha' a Planescape Modern game would be cool and appropriate.

Welcome to PW, Edward!!!

Tue, 2005-02-01 21:17
(Reply to #4) #5
Clueless
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Ain't that the way it always is? We'd been wanting to get ahold of you guys to offer a spot as a feature on the website. Smiling PM or email me and we'll get some ideas kicked about.

Tue, 2005-02-01 21:29
(Reply to #5) #6
Loki De Carabas
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Yeehah!

Brilliant! I am so thrilled that post actually got through. It brought tears to my eyes thinking such a vast quantity of excellent work should die over product identity issues.
I look forward to seeing you, Tanarrichild nad the others over here! I am a New Orleanian, which means that I will barely be present (if at all) until after the 8th of Feb. It's Mardi Gras here....
Welcome aboard, I can't wait to see how the rest of the Modern Planes come out.

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Tue, 2005-02-01 21:41
(Reply to #6) #7
Edward Davis
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"Enzo Sarlas" wrote:
Funny how things just come together, isn't it.

I confess I haven't seen your stuff over at the WotC boards, but I really look forward to reading it and playing it. From everything I've seen here, there's definitely a burning desire among PW members to mix d20 Modern with the style and philosophies of Planescape. 'Course you already know that from playing here on the PW forums.

Hey Barkin, if yer readin' this... I told ye tha' a Planescape Modern game would be cool and appropriate.

Welcome to PW, Edward!!!

Actually, I've been a semi-regular at these boards since they were first started, strangely enough.

To anyone that doesn't mind sifting through nineteen pages of message board brainstorming, here is a link to the original thread at the WotC forums:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=178643

and here is a link to the old (and quite dead) Urban Planar boards, created by the always wonderful Persephone Imytholin (The domain sucks, so don't expect to get in all the time):

http://www.forums4free.net/urbanps/index.php?

Tue, 2005-02-01 22:00
(Reply to #7) #8
Edward Davis
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I just contacted Persephone and, hopefully, she'll want back in. The Urban Planars project would not have been possible without the combined effort of each and every one of you wonderful people that participated in helping my dream take shape. But she had, by far, been the most dedicated to the project.

I can not in good conscience do anything with this project unless she's with me every step of the way.

Wed, 2005-02-02 07:23
(Reply to #8) #9
Fidrikon
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So... in the future planes.... did the Lady of Pain get an upgrade?
although, i can still imagine her falyeing sladiers, despite their robotic combat armor and whatnot

Wed, 2005-02-02 08:09
(Reply to #9) #10
Edward Davis
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The Lady of Pain changes for no one!

Though, in all seriousness, we've mostly being trying to stick with the Unity of Rings as far as major characters are concerned. Remember that in the Outer Planes, the more things change, the more they ultimately stay the same and you usually end up right back where you started with only some minor differences. The Lady of Pain, Shemeska, Rhys, The Editor, A'Kin and other long lived or ageless characters are largely unaltered from their original concepts (Although Rhys is an very old woman by this time).

Not only is the Blood War is still around, it's gone nuclear. But, when you think about it, how much damage can an atomic weapon (even a magically enhanced one) actually do in an infinate plane of existence? Not much, in the great scheme of things. But that doesn't stop the fiends from using them liberally.

Wed, 2005-02-02 09:27
(Reply to #10) #11
Gerzel
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"Edward Davis" wrote:
The Lady of Pain changes for no one!

Though, in all seriousness, we've mostly being trying to stick with the Unity of Rings as far as major characters are concerned. Remember that in the Outer Planes, the more things change, the more they ultimately stay the same and you usually end up right back where you started with only some minor differences. The Lady of Pain, Shemeska, Rhys, The Editor, A'Kin and other long lived or ageless characters are largely unaltered from their original concepts (Although Rhys is an very old woman by this time).

Not only is the Blood War is still around, it's gone nuclear. But, when you think about it, how much damage can an atomic weapon (even a magically enhanced one) actually do in an infinate plane of existence? Not much, in the great scheme of things. But that doesn't stop the fiends from using them liberally.

mmmm...radio active loths.... ...What you think the taanari can really make their own and keep their labs in one piece?

Wed, 2005-02-02 09:28
(Reply to #11) #12
Gerzel
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But seriosly.

Are you planning on integrating the D20 modern rules with it?
If you've read Urban Arcana will you go into the shadow?

Wed, 2005-02-02 09:34
(Reply to #12) #13
Edward Davis
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"Gerzel" wrote:
But seriosly.

Are you planning on integrating the D20 modern rules with it?
If you've read Urban Arcana will you go into the shadow?

We were in the middle of that very discussion when WtoC pulled the plug on us. I'll get more into that later, but I have to go to work in a few minutes.

Wed, 2005-02-02 12:18
(Reply to #13) #14
Alhesander
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Consider my intrests piqued.

Wed, 2005-02-02 12:42
(Reply to #14) #15
Krypter
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This does sound very interesting, but I suspect your legal problems will remain unresolved even if Planewalker hosts your material. It's one thing to support a discontinued line like Planescape, it's quite another to create a whole new game based on it.

But I wish you luck, because your ideas look as interesting as your passion for them.

Perhaps a new forum section could be created for this project, if it's going to get so many responses?

Atomic demons, now that's something scary...

Wed, 2005-02-02 13:39
(Reply to #15) #16
Emperor Xan
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If PW is allowed to use WotC books for creating material, why would such a restriction apply if you're creating a d20 Future setting of Planescape?

Wed, 2005-02-02 19:50
(Reply to #16) #17
moogle001
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Yeah, I tend to agree that we should be good legally. Not that WotC pays us too much mind anyways...

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Wed, 2005-02-02 19:54
(Reply to #17) #18
Primus, the One...
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I posted my Mechanus writeup on PW already.

Wed, 2005-02-02 20:39
(Reply to #18) #19
Persephone Imytholin
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Um, w00t!

Replying to things in order...

Quote:
Clueless posted: [We want] ... you guys ... as a feature on the website.

That'd be teh awesome much. Remind me to click on the PM button after this post. Immediately after this post.

Quote:
Edward Davies posted: I can not in good conscience do anything with this project unless she's with me every step of the way.

Thanks! *hugs* And sorry I was hard to find. I tend to spend most of my WotC time around the Character Development board these days. Of course, you decided to do it via my LJ. Remind me to friend you.

Quote:
Edward again: The Lady of Pain changes for no one!

Seconded. And strictly enforced.

Quote:
Gerzel posted: Are you planning on integrating the D20 modern rules with it? If you've read Urban Arcana will you go into the shadow?

Um, kinda. Since we were planning on going modern but keeping a good many of the fantasy elements, a part of our original project was based on a d20 implementation that'd work comfortably with both. What we came up with was a kind of generic class system, with the power to arbitrarily swap class features about each level and professions completely removed from classes.

It was kinda cute.

Quote:
Alhesander posted: Consider my intrests piqued.

We all took the Pique Interest [General] feat.

Quote:
Krypter posted: This does sound very interesting, but I suspect your legal problems will remain unresolved even if Planewalker hosts your material.

Not really, since PW already has some kind of rights to use Planescape PI. The problem that the WtC branding managers had with the project originally was that it could be perceived to dilute ownership; as a part of Planewalker, that probably wouldn't be much of an issue anymore.

And there we go. I'm off to send that PM now...

Thu, 2005-02-03 07:42
(Reply to #19) #20
Zjelani
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"Persephone Imytholin" wrote:
Not really, since PW already has some kind of rights to use Planescape PI. The problem that the WtC branding managers had with the project originally was that it could be perceived to dilute ownership; as a part of Planewalker, that probably wouldn't be much of an issue anymore.

Yes, we have a signed agreement with WotC that allows us to make use of all of their intellectual property as long as we abide by certain restrictions (proper copyright notice, can't charge for our material, we have to stay online only - no print, can't just reprint books, etc.). I have not been notified that the agreement has been revoked (and I have talked with WotC several times on this matter), so we are in the clear legally.

We just need to play nice and make sure that we don't make the WotC books redundant. So if someone did a d20 Modern Planescape, it should reference the d20 Modern book, not replace it obviously.

-Ken Marable

Thu, 2005-02-03 07:53
(Reply to #20) #21
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Yay! *giggles madly*

Thu, 2005-02-03 10:25
(Reply to #21) #22
Gerzel
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Would this make cyberspace a transative plane?

Thu, 2005-02-03 10:59
(Reply to #22) #23
Krypter
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Oh, I see. I thought that the agreement only covered published Planescape products, but if you have access to all of Wizards' IP then that's a pretty sweet deal.

Hmmm...that brings up all kinds of crazy ideas....

<starts thinking about a PS-Star Wars crossover>

Thu, 2005-02-03 11:04
(Reply to #23) #24
Narfi Ref
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"Krypter" wrote:
Oh, I see. I thought that the agreement only covered published Planescape products, but if you have access to all of Wizards' IP then that's a pretty sweet deal.

Hmmm...that brings up all kinds of crazy ideas....

<starts thinking about a PS-Star Wars crossover>

Before you do that, Star Wars, Call of Cthulu, and The Wheel of Time are products liscensed to WotC, they are not WotC IP.

Thu, 2005-02-03 12:19
(Reply to #24) #25
Edward Davis
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"Narfi Ref" wrote:
Before you do that, Star Wars, Call of Cthulu, and The Wheel of Time are products liscensed to WotC, they are not WotC IP.
I thought that WotC lost their product liscense for Call of Cthulu.

Thu, 2005-02-03 12:39
(Reply to #25) #26
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Arkham house is rather possessive of those rights. More than likely they only had it long enough to produce the d20 version before they were politely asked to return it.

Thu, 2005-02-03 18:57
(Reply to #26) #27
Gerzel
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"Clueless" wrote:
Arkham house is rather possessive of those rights. More than likely they only had it long enough to produce the d20 version before they were politely asked to return it.

Though some of HP Lovecraft's works are coming out of copyright. Need to be careful and make sure that the work is Lovecraft based and safe rather than CoC based.

Thu, 2005-02-03 19:13
(Reply to #27) #28
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Can I take it that the answer to the thread's title is... uh, no?

And might it be a good idea to change it? Sticking out tongue

Thu, 2005-02-03 19:17
(Reply to #28) #29
Edward Davis
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"Anarch" wrote:
Can I take it that the answer to the thread's title is... uh, no?

And might it be a good idea to change it? Sticking out tongue

Okay, done. Laughing out loud

Thu, 2005-02-03 20:13
(Reply to #29) #30
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Excellent! I'm glad the project is back. If I can find the time I'd love to be a part of it again.

__________________

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Thu, 2005-02-03 21:39
(Reply to #30) #31
Edward Davis
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"Bob the Efreet" wrote:
Excellent! I'm glad the project is back. If I can find the time I'd love to be a part of it again.
Every little thing that you can do for us is always appreciated.

Thu, 2005-02-03 21:55
(Reply to #31) #32
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Awesome! You can deal me in.

Great to see the old team back together. I'm glad that this is working out.

Thu, 2005-02-03 21:56
(Reply to #32) #33
Persephone Imytholin
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"Edward Davis" wrote:
"Bob the Efreet" wrote:
Excellent! I'm glad the project is back. If I can find the time I'd love to be a part of it again.
Every little thing that you can do for us is always appreciated.

Seconded. Anything you can do will be most excellent.

Thu, 2005-02-03 22:02
(Reply to #33) #34
Persephone Imytholin
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"TheRoastSlinky" wrote:
Awesome! You can deal me in.

Great to see the old team back together. I'm glad that this is working out.

And a welcome back to you too, your Slinkiness.

Thu, 2005-02-03 22:28
(Reply to #34) #35
Edward Davis
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"TheRoastSlinky" wrote:
Awesome! You can deal me in.

Great to see the old team back together. I'm glad that this is working out.

Hey dude! How did you find us?

Did I get to you first or did Persephone?

Thu, 2005-02-03 22:39
(Reply to #35) #36
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Got your email. Sorry if I didn't reply promptly, I've been away for a bit.

Thu, 2005-02-03 22:48
(Reply to #36) #37
Edward Davis
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No worries. I'm just grateful that you recieved it at all. Man, it's great to see the old gang slowly coming back together.

Now, we just need to find Eyes in the Darkness and Serpentine....

Sun, 2005-02-06 01:24
(Reply to #37) #38
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You guys still exist.

And I still have a link to the old board in my sig for a few of the boards I visit. Want me to nix it?

Sun, 2005-02-06 02:29
(Reply to #38) #39
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I'm looking forward to the return of this project.

As I recall it was a worthwhile effort, and it also provided me with ONE of THREE reasons to visit the WotC message boards on occasion.

Sun, 2005-02-06 06:41
(Reply to #39) #40
Persephone Imytholin
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nick012000, I think that (for now) it might be worthwhile to point the link to this thread, for the moment.

Evil Construct (while having three reasons amuses me much), what're the other two?

Sun, 2005-02-06 07:56
(Reply to #40) #41
Edward Davis
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"nick012000" wrote:
You guys still exist.

And I still have a link to the old board in my sig for a few of the boards I visit. Want me to nix it?

Keep it for the moment. It'll be good for reference until we get the new page up.

Sun, 2005-02-06 08:54
(Reply to #41) #42
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"Persephone Imytholin" wrote:
Evil Construct (while having three reasons amuses me much), what're the other two?
The first, I consider to be the posts that both Rip and Shemmy make in the boards dedicated to all-things-planar. And the second, are the wonderful little tidbits of Realmslore that are sprinkled occasionally into certain FR threads by a fellow countrymen of mine named George Krashos.

If it weren't for these three individuals, I'd hardly ever bother visiting the WotC message boards.

Wed, 2005-02-09 05:43
(Reply to #42) #43
Persephone Imytholin
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It is with much happiness that I'm about to tell you that we're now a feature. So, yeah. Most definitely not dead.

Wed, 2005-02-09 16:32
(Reply to #43) #44
Edward Davis
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Though, we have yet to add any serious content at the moment.

But stay tuned. We'll start setting up some neat goodies in the future...

Thu, 2005-02-10 00:09
(Reply to #44) #45
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"Persephone Imytholin" wrote:
It is with much happiness that I'm about to tell you that we're now a feature. So, yeah. Most definitely not dead.

Kewl! Do we get our own forum, too?

Thu, 2005-02-10 00:25
(Reply to #45) #46
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Clueless is thinking about restructuring the boards some, so we may get somewhere to talk without spamming everyone else.

Thu, 2005-02-10 09:45
(Reply to #46) #47
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"TheRoastSlinky" wrote:
Kewl! Do we get our own forum, too?

I believe you'll get your own section on our forums here, soon. I like that you're making the rpg section quite lively, but I foresee a huge amount of material and posts for this project, and it will inevitably crowd out other worthy contributions. The forums will get a facelift quite soon as well.

Thu, 2005-02-10 09:58
(Reply to #47) #48
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I haven't made promised or a deadline yet b/c i'm slipping in schoolwork - so I don't want to disappoint if I end up putting PW behind school-work and work-work. Eye-wink

Thu, 2005-02-10 10:53
(Reply to #48) #49
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"Clueless" wrote:
I haven't made promised or a deadline yet b/c i'm slipping in schoolwork - so I don't want to disappoint if I end up putting PW behind school-work and work-work. Eye-wink

Here here! You don't want me to fail and I return the favor. I speak strangly for I have been reading Shakespere and cannot spell due to caffiend.

Thu, 2005-02-10 16:28
(Reply to #49) #50
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Urban Planescape - How the project ended up here

That's ok, we can keep it under control for a little bit. I'm not trying to spam the rest of the forums.

No, really.

Wed, 2005-02-16 11:43
(Reply to #50) #51
Serpentine
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Joined: 2005-02-16
Urban Planescape - How the project ended up here

Hey, I'm here!

Wow, it's been a while.

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