Timeline for Factol Darkwood

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Palomides's picture
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Timeline for Factol Darkwood

I’ve started going through Faction Wars and one part of it has me badly confused. Spoilers involved so stop reading if you want to be surprised

Can someone clarify the circular timeline(s) involving Factol Darkwood? As much as I can make heads or tails of it, it goes something like this:

“Distant past”
The person who was/will be known as Darkwood is displaced in time and ends up here
He learns powerful magic that he believes will allow him to take over Sigil; but moments before completing the spell, the Lady of Pain appears and traps him within the Labyrinth Stone (and/or reduces his body to ash)
[At least, this is how I interpreted what I read]
At a later date, another mage finds the Stone and tries another takeover of Sigil using the power of the Stone, only to be foiled

“Relative past”
Darkwood escapes one of the Lady’s Mazes to find himself displaced in time; due to his confused mental state this leads to him being called Gifed and being locked in the Gatehouse

“Near past”
Darkwood is born, goes on to secretly become a Prolonger and openly become the head of the Fated

“Present”
Darkwood acquires the Labyrinth Stone and with its power he launches a plan that starts the Faction War
He almost releases the spirit in the Labyrinth Stone, but gets mazed by the Lady sending him back to the “relative” past

OK, I probably have some of the info wrong but assuming what I have above is correct, then Gifed/the Oldest Barmy/Darkwood would have to either
1) learn powerful magic and almost take over Sigil in the future and then get banished into the Labyrinth Stone that would then be thrown back in time (in which case, some of my “distant past” points actually belong in the future)
or
2) Gifed does something that throws him back in time become the mage that gets trapped in the Stone

Is this correct? Does anyone know what really happened?
Does whatever Gifed does involve freeing the mage from the Labyrinth Stone (as something the Lady said made it sound as though Darkwood/Gifed was fated (no pun intended) to one day release the trapped mage who is himself)? If so, what does this uberpowerful wizard then do?
Who or what is the cause of the original time displacement (the stretch of time where Darkwood/Gifed becomes a powerful mage)? As it the Lady that sent him back to the "Distant past"? Was it the mage released from the Labyrinth Stone that sent gifed back so that the curving timelines would be guarenteed to happen?

ripvanwormer's picture
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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

Darkwood discovers the Labyrinth Stone at the time of the Faction War (the year 130 in Hashkar's reign), paying adventurers to bring it from Pandemonium. He communicates with the entrapped spirit inside the gem and learns how to complete the Sigil Spell begun by the entrapped wizard long ago. The Sigil Spell will allow him to state a single world that will redefine Sigil, potentially destroying the Lady of Pain. Before he can complete the ritual, however, he is sent back in time several hundred years, where - amnesiac and ranting - he ends up encarcerated in the Gatehouse as Gifad, later known as the Oldest Barmy. As Gifad, he remains in the Gatehouse until the time of the Faction War (the year 130 again) when he escapes and tries once again to complete the Sigil Spell. This time he's sent back in time much longer than 10,000 years (I'd guess 11,000-20,000 years, depending on preference), when he ends up amnesiac again, sold into slavery, travels across the Great Wheel, eventually learns magic and becomes a powerful wizard, and returns to Sigil where he begins the Sigil Spell. Before he can complete it, though, the Lady of Pain imprisons him in the Labyrinth Stone and casts the stone into Pandemonium.

Gifad is not attempting to free the wizard, only to complete the spell the wizard began - unfortunately, activating the magic involves consuming the ancient wizard's soul utterly.

It's all the Lady of Pain's fault.

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

OK, that makes sense; but based on this, once Gifad/Darkwood/the uber-wizard is placed in the Stone, is he ever freed? I only ask because a thought the Lady implanted in his mind when he was captured in the Stone implies that he will one day be freed "by himself from the outside". Or do you interpret this as being freed into the embrace of death (in which case, does that make the Lady a Dustman)?

Also, when he, as Gifad, tries to enact the Sigil spell using the Stone; if he activated the spell (thus destroying the Stone) then isn't it too late for the Lady to stop him? And if Gifad was sent back in time JUST before the spell went into effect; how was this different than what occurred when a wizard in the ancient past used the Stone to almost take over Sigil?
I realize we might not know what is really different with the attempt made by the non-Darkwood/Gifad mage; and that what is important was that his attempt became the legend that caused Darkwood to hatch his plan that would cause these circles of causality; but I have to ask nonetheless.

Also does this imply that the Lady is aware of the predestined fate (or at least, commanded by the Fates) to play out this convuted chain of events?
Do you think she did it out of necessity or to further her own goals? I prefer the later interpretation but I can't see that the Faction War did all that much to make things "better" (although that reflect my DM preference for a pre-war Sigil)

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

He escapes briefly, as a spirit, for long enough to shout "You fool!" at his younger self before dissipating. "Oh, don't want to die?" Gifad sneered at the spirit of the trapped wizard. "Too bad, your magic is mine!"

As for why she did it, the Lady of Pain isn't talking.

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

Palomides wrote:
OK, that makes sense; but based on this, once Gifad/Darkwood/the uber-wizard is placed in the Stone, is he ever freed? I only ask because a thought the Lady implanted in his mind when he was captured in the Stone implies that he will one day be freed "by himself from the outside". Or do you interpret this as being freed into the embrace of death (in which case, does that make the Lady a Dustman)?

Also, when he, as Gifad, tries to enact the Sigil spell using the Stone; if he activated the spell (thus destroying the Stone) then isn't it too late for the Lady to stop him?

Nope, it was activated. But it's the party of PCs in Faction War that got the result of the spell, not Gifad. Essentially, all the spell could do was give them a one-word Wish-type effect to "reshape" Sigil in a subtle way. They're slightly nudged towards using the word "Peace" or something of a similar manner to end the Faction War that was raging through the city at the time, which as described wouldn't be a sudden massive effect that would force everyone to stop fighting but would instead would lead to a slow cooling of hostilities in such a subtle manner as to cause the party to question if the spell actually worked at all. And I don't believe the effect continued on past there in making Sigil a peaceful place in canon (though it certainly would be a reasonable choice to make in your game). But it leaves open the possibility for them to use anything so long as it's just a single word. There's some degree of impact in the intent of the word too beyond just the straightforward meaning. While it says the party's intent being to end the Faction War aids in focusing the impact of the spell on just that conflict, it also mentions other possible alternatives like "order" having potentially unintended side effects due to connotations of the term.

Quote:
Do you think she did it out of necessity or to further her own goals? I prefer the later interpretation but I can't see that the Faction War did all that much to make things "better" (although that reflect my DM preference for a pre-war Sigil)

According to the ending of Faction War, she did it out of a sense of twisted irony and amusement to pay homage to the three universal laws: the Rule of Three (three incarnations of Darkwood), the Unity of Rings (obvious), and the Center of All (Darkwood was at the center of his goals the whole time. Not just that, but as soon as Darkwood was trapped within the gem as the mage, the Lady restored both his sanity and his memory specifically to force him to have the awareness both of what he'd done, how everything was his own fault, and how his ultimate fate was to be released briefly by himself only to be obliterated by his own ritual.

It sounds like you might have missed part of the conclusion, Palomides. Pages 110-111 goes over the results and effects of Darkwood's spell, and the epilogue on page 112-113, the second page in particular, goes over Gifad's fate as the mage in the distant past.

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

It's possible the Lady wasn't responsible for restoring her sanity, but that this was a natural consequence of becoming incorporeal. It's also possible that the Rule of Threes, Center of All, and Unity of Rings elements weren't the Lady's doing, but the result of the multiverse's own inclinations.

Quite likely, she was toying with Rowan, as well as desiring the results of the war for some obscure purpose that might have been realized millennia in the past, or might not be realizef for millennia in the future. But it's not completely clear. We don't really know for sure that the Lady of Pain is even sentient (aside from her first-person narrative in the Pages of Pain novel).

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

I jumped ahead to the epilog (sp?) but haven't read all the parts of the adventure yet. But the twisted logic of the time-traveling Darkwood had me pre-occupied

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

ripvanwormer wrote:
Quite likely, she was toying with Rowan, as well as desiring the results of the war for some obscure purpose that might have been realized millennia in the past, or might not be realizef for millennia in the future. But it's not completely clear. We don't really know for sure that the Lady of Pain is even sentient (aside from her first-person narrative in the Pages of Pain novel).

I'm pretty sure this has come up before (I remember posting something like this before, at least), but I still say since the DM's Dark section of the Indeps in Factol's Manifesto is from an out-of-setting perspective, it's proof enough that the Lady's sentient. Sticking out tongue

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

I wasn't going to bring this up, as this thread had gone dead; but I also realized that Darkwood illustrates the Unity of Rings and the Rule of Threes with regards to his alignment.
He supposedly started off as "good" (although, I don't recall him ever REALLY acting that way), his behavior when initiating the Faction War is neutral (at best); and then when he gets thrown back into the distant past and becomes the uber-powerful wizard, he seems to have taken on a more evil aura.

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

[Double post]

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

The first time a "Rowan Darkwood" appeared, in the Treasures of Greyhawk anthology, he was listed as lawful neutral. It's not completely clear this is the same as the Rowan Darkwood who appeared as a chaotic good ranger in the Planescape boxed set. "Gifad," the Oldest Barmy, was listed as chaotic neutral. I'm not sure there's any reason to assume the Ancient Wizard was evil.

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

I'd have to break out Faction War again, but I thought the brief mention of his time as a mage mentioned him going about the Lower Planes and gaining great power. Even if I remember the quote correctly, I realize that doesn't guarentee that he became evil himself but I did get that impression (and I like the idea of him going through whole G/E spectrum)

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

See below.

__________________

"Thus man grows out of everything that once embraced him; he has no need to break the shackles - they fall away unforeseen when a god bids them; and where is the ring that in the end still encircles him? Is it the world? Is it God? Yes, I know where I spring from! Unsated like the flame I glow and consume myself. Everything I grasp turns to light, everything I leave to cinder, flame is certainly what I am!" - Vecna

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

ripvanwormer wrote:
The first time a "Rowan Darkwood" appeared, in the Treasures of Greyhawk anthology, he was listed as lawful neutral. It's not completely clear this is the same as the Rowan Darkwood who appeared as a chaotic good ranger in the Planescape boxed set. "Gifad," the Oldest Barmy, was listed as chaotic neutral. I'm not sure there's any reason to assume the Ancient Wizard was evil.

Considering the Greyhawk root of these narratives, why would it not be reasonable to at least consider that the Ancient Evil Wizard could be Vecna?

__________________

"Thus man grows out of everything that once embraced him; he has no need to break the shackles - they fall away unforeseen when a god bids them; and where is the ring that in the end still encircles him? Is it the world? Is it God? Yes, I know where I spring from! Unsated like the flame I glow and consume myself. Everything I grasp turns to light, everything I leave to cinder, flame is certainly what I am!" - Vecna

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

Quote:
Considering the Greyhawk root of these narratives, why would it not be reasonable to at least consider that the Ancient Evil Wizard could be Vecna?

Well, some problems with that:

- Vecna is still active and "alive" (a living god, though undead) today. The ancient wizard was destroyed when Gifad activated the soul gem.

- The ancient wizard was imprisoned in the Labyrinth Stone well over 10,000 years ago. Vecna's battle with Kas was only 1,000 years ago, during the period when the wizard was imprisoned in the Labyrinth Stone, somewhere in Pandemonium. The timeline doesn't match up, unless you're suggesting that at some point he time-travels to the future, becomes a demigod and then a lesser deity as Vecna, then loses his divinity (because the ancient wizard was physically in Sigil, which is normally impossible for a deity - Vecna admittedly found a loophole, but it seems unlikely this would work more than once), travels back to the past at some point in the future to confront the Lady (seems unlikely, since the book implies he confronted her at the height of his power, whereas for Vecna this would've been several steps down) and got himself caught in a gemstone for tens of thousands of years, only to be annihilated by his past self.

- The ancient wizard was Rowan Darkwood. Rowan Darkwood's circuitious, nonlinear life is pretty well accounted for. He was busy either being Rowan, or locked up in the Gatehouse for centuries as the Oldest Barmy, or locked in a gemstone in Pandemonium during the times Vecna was active.

- Other than sharing a homeworld and being wizards, Vecna and "ancient wizard" Gifad/Rowan have nothing in particular in common. Oh, I guess they both lost an eye, but under very different circumstances. Rowan lost his to baatezu torturers, while Vecna lost his to Kas's sword (or to priests of Pholtus, if you follow the comic book). And Rowan has both his hands.

- Oerth has a bunch of other ancient wizards on it, anyway. Even evil ones. There's Kyuss (a cleric/wizard/true necromancer), Shattados, Drokkas, Asberdies, Ohjos, Oolan, the Ur-Flannae wizards who attacked the City of the Summer Stars, and Keraptis, for starters, so Vecna isn't necessarily the first place I would go. Of those, Keraptis is the only one known to have undergone anything much like time-travelling, but we know how his existence ends, and it's very different. Well, Vecna definitely attempts a time-travel-based plot in Vecna Lives!, but it fails, and again the timing seems off. Theoretically he might have traveled forward in time to whenever Vecna first started rising to power as a lich (4,000-2,000 years ago, maybe), gotten vaporized by Kas about 1,000 years ago, spent centuries rebuilding himself as a demigod, imprisoned by Zagyg (it's implied) about 90 years ago, freed around 25 years ago, had a showdown with Iuz around 15 years ago in which he was lost on some unknown plane for five years or so before being imprisoned on Ravenloft for another ten years or so... that lost period could've had him sent back 20,000 years or whatever, but he still would've had his divinity, and things couldn't have ended for him then, because he still needs to be imprisoned in Ravenloft. No, I'm not seeing it, though if you really want to have Vecna's destiny to be to end as a disembodied voice in a gemstone killed offscreen by Rowan Darkwood activating an ancient spell... more power to you. Might be disappointing to the players, though.

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

Palomides wrote:
I'd have to break out Faction War again, but I thought the brief mention of his time as a mage mentioned him going about the Lower Planes and gaining great power. Even if I remember the quote correctly, I realize that doesn't guarentee that he became evil himself but I did get that impression (and I like the idea of him going through whole G/E spectrum)

Since I just actually bothered to look, what it says is "And so he moved on again, and again, and again, learning greater and greater secrets from each new spellslinger. Acheron, Carceri, Mount Celestia - wherever dwelled a wizard of repute, there he went to study." So he did go about the Lower Planes, but he went through the Upper Planes as well.

That said, there's a moment a little later on where he gloats about how the people who fear the Lady of Pain are "cattle" who "will make easy slaves," which does sound pretty evil, or at least amoral.

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Re: Timeline for Factol Darkwood

See above! I don't remember pressing "save" twice, but apparently I did.

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