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Things that I think should be included

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Tue, 2007-11-20 16:51
#1
Charles Phipps
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Things that I think should be included

1. A write up of Gith

Suggest that the most likely fate of Gith was that she died many millennium ago, however, that if DMs want to include a resurrected Gith then this was her personality and stats.

I'm inclined to give her a straight 18th level Fighter/2nd Warlord Build with an immunity to Mind Control. Make her alignment Lawful Evil but with a definite sense of honor.

2. Githyanki and Githzerai Factions (Small F)

The various secret societies of the Gith are going to be included anyway, it'll just be a good idea for them to all be put in one distinct Chapter. Thus far we've got the Half-Dragons/Dragon worshipers, Vlaakith worshipers, those who seek a Githzerai/Githyanki unification, the Militant Warlords, and the Zerths that should be handled in more detail. I think a few more GithZERAI factions should be good.

3. A write up of the Githzerai Godking

He's been undetailed in canon as to what motivates him and how he exists up until this point. We need to seperate him from Vlaakith but I definitely think he should be a villain.

4. Expanded information on Gith (Dark Sun) and Gith Pirates

If nothing else, just an acknowledgment on the far flung nature of the races.

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Sun, 2007-11-25 04:46
#2
extropymine
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Things that I think should be included

'Charles Phipps' wrote:
1. A write up of Gith

Suggest that the most likely fate of Gith was that she died many millennium ago, however, that if DMs want to include a resurrected Gith then this was her personality and stats.

I'm inclined to give her a straight 18th level Fighter/2nd Warlord Build with an immunity to Mind Control. Make her alignment Lawful Evil but with a definite sense of honor.


I don't think putting Gith "on paper" is wise. Something I have learned from a lot of years gaming is that when people see it in print, they read permission into it, often ignoring sentences like "we do not recommend you do this." If we don't think Gith ought to be wandering around, let's just leave it at that.

Sun, 2007-11-25 12:37
(Reply to #2) #3
Rhys
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Things that I think should be included

I agree that the character of Gith is too complex to be statted. Do we do Gith the slave? Gith the liberator? Gith the queen? Gith when she traveled to Baator? Gith, as some conspiracy says she exists now in some advanced state? Gith as the githyanki imagine her? Gith as the githzerai imagine her?

Also, Warlord isn't a class in 3e. It's going to be a class in 4e.

But rather than have this turn into a debate of an NPC writeup that hasn't been written up, why doesn't someone who's better at high-level NPCs slap together some kind of proposed stat block for some of the cutters mentioned above? Hells, if you post a stat block for Gith, the worst thing it'll do is provoke some discussion. Prove me wrong when I said "too complex to stat."

Sun, 2007-11-25 15:19
(Reply to #3) #4
Charles Phipps
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Things that I think should be included

'extropymine' wrote:
I don't think putting Gith "on paper" is wise. Something I have learned from a lot of years gaming is that when people see it in print, they read permission into it, often ignoring sentences like "we do not recommend you do this." If we don't think Gith ought to be wandering around, let's just leave it at that.

I disagree strongly, because what if someone's campaign IS ABOUT bringing back Gith. It's important to include the description of her personality and what sort of individual she was. If she was a legendary psionicist then her stats should reflect this, likewise was she a legendary warrior instead? Also, I think elements of her personality should be equally important.

I don't think anything more than a stat block and description of her personality plus appearance should be included but definitely the Gith as she was as a liberator should be there.

Sun, 2007-11-25 16:19
(Reply to #4) #5
Armoury99
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Things that I think should be included

What's this? caught you flirting with another project - and that floosy Gith no less! Don't make me drag you back to Ortho by the ear young man! Laughing out loud

Only joking.

I actually think an extensive description of Gith is probably essential - inluding all her aspects, good and bad (good luck with that!) - but I don't think that stats are actually necessary. Extended description, speculation, and extrapolation are fine but like Her Serenity, Giff's one of the mysteries of the PS setting; giving her statistics is only going to lessen that.

Sun, 2007-11-25 23:55
(Reply to #5) #6
extropymine
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Things that I think should be included

My fear about giving Gith a stat block is not that it's too complex: it's that invariably, someone will say "she's not so tough; I could take her in a fight." When you give something Hit Points and an Armor Class, you invite people into an imagined combat with it. I don't think we want to invite that.

Plus, if we include an "unofficially official" Gith stat block and descriptive text, we won't be able to avoid answering the big question: where has she been? That's the big mystery! For goodness' sake, let's not solve it! Talking about her present-day goals and motivations is also difficult, because it similarly solves the mystery.

If we're going to talk about Gith, let's talk about the legend, because that doesn't spoil the story. We can talk about what people believe she was like, what she is reported to have done. There might be other legends that don't show her in the same light, or that conflict with one another. Let's build the mystery rather than reveal it.

The comparison to the Lady of Pain is a good one, because in some ways they're similar figures: they're interesting because we don't know much about them. It's best to leave Gith mysterious for the same reasons that the Lady's goals, personality and stats are never revealed: no explanation can possibly live up to expectations.

If someone wants to bring back Gith in their own campaign, more power to them. If they're that ambitious I should think they already have answers and stats in their head.

Mon, 2007-11-26 00:55
(Reply to #6) #7
Charles Phipps
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Things that I think should be included

Quote:
My fear about giving Gith a stat block is not that it's too complex: it's that invariably, someone will say "she's not so tough; I could take her in a fight." When you give something Hit Points and an Armor Class, you invite people into an imagined combat with it. I don't think we want to invite that.

Why?

I can easilly imagine an adventure where Gith is ressurected, prepares to start the war again, and the PCs decide to kill her. Vlaakith recieved stats and they decided, against all tradition, to kill her. The result was one of the greatest adventure supplements ever made.

Gith isn't the Lady of Pain. She's flesh and blood along with killable. There's also no 'mystery' to her except for the fact of what happened to her. All that denying stats for her does is make more work for the DM.

Quote:
Plus, if we include an "unofficially official" Gith stat block and descriptive text, we won't be able to avoid answering the big question: where has she been? That's the big mystery! For goodness' sake, let's not solve it! Talking about her present-day goals and motivations is also difficult, because it similarly solves the mystery.

I'm not against the mystery by any stretch of the imagination though I'm certainly for providing a set of answers for the Gamemaster to choose from.

Quote:
If we're going to talk about Gith, let's talk about the legend, because that doesn't spoil the story.

I have less interest in The Githyanki legends about Gith than whether they're true. The Githyanki are a racist, ignorant, bunch of sycopants by nature so whatever they say is going to be slavish.

What I want to know is historical DETAILS about the Revolt.

Quote:
The comparison to the Lady of Pain is a good one, because in some ways they're similar figures:

I wrote my commentary about the Lady of Pain and Gith not being remotely similiar before I read this.

So, clearly, we disagree.

Quote:
If someone wants to bring back Gith in their own campaign, more power to them. If they're that ambitious I should think they already have answers and stats in their head.

That defeats the purpose of a stat book and historical narrative. Frankly, if I write a history of the Githyanki it'll give concrete details about who Gith was and where she's from because I think that's important.

Details on Zerthimon only made him a more interesting figure in Torment.

Tue, 2007-11-27 18:43
(Reply to #7) #8
Azure
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Things that I think should be included

I have to agree that, I too have no desire to see any actual stats for Gith herself. I simply think that keeping her a mythological figure in gith culture is her proper role. On the other side of that coin, some 'histories' in the form of githyanki scriptures would be a worthy project. Illumination of secondary figures in Gith's war of liberation would also be interesting. Vlaakith(s) probably did much to eliminate the bloodlines and histories of most of the other of Gith's generals, but some may have re-surficed in wake of the Lich Queen's death.

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