The Size of Sigil

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Rick Summon's picture
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The Size of Sigil

Everyone knows that the circumference of Sigil is 20 miles, but that's not quite enough information to define it fully. A torus has two radii: r for the small generator circle and R for the big circle the small one revolves around. Also, Sigil is not a complete torus: the inner third of the generating circle has been cut out.

Now, the known circumference constrains r and R, so that if you know one, you can calculate the other. But what value produces a Sigil with the proper "thickness"? It should look more like an inner tube than a bicycle tire.

The best way to measure it is by looking at a flat rectangular map of Sigil. Define a as the ratio between the length of one of the rectangles and its height. (Remember, the circumference is equal to twice the length of the rectangle.) After doing a few calculations, you can find r, R, and the surface area A to two significant figures:

r = 2.4 / a (in miles)
R = 3.2 - r (in miles)
A = 200 / a - 88 / a^2 (in square miles)

Now, on the published map, it looks like a = 4, but when I run that through my computer animation program, it produces a very "thin" Sigil. It looks like a = 3 produces better results. This means that:

r = 0.80 miles
R = 2.4 miles
A = 57 square miles
(a bit smaller than Liechtenstein)

There you have it!

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The Size of Sigil

In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil says that the City of Doors has a diameter of five miles (page 6). If that's the diameter of your small generator circle, then that circle would have a radius of 2.5 miles.

That would be an impossible shape (since a 20-mile circumference circle would have a diameter of about 6.4 miles, while a torus whose tube is five miles in diameter must be at least 10 miles across), though of course impossible shapes aren't strictly beyond the realm of possibility in Planescape. I believe that gives us an area of 67.419155331745358375402063331018 square miles, or would if Sigil's torus was complete, which it isn't, and if the shape I described was possible, which it isn't.

If Sigil isn't an actual torus, but a ring whose latitudinal curve is much less acute than a section of a circle would be, I'm pretty sure it's possible, but it means we can't use the formula to calculate the area of a torus to figure out how big it is.

Sigil's size changes continuously anyway, and, if space itself is distorted within, it might be bigger than its dimensions suggest.

I'd be very interested in seeing screenshots of Sigil's shape from your animation program (especially as seen from inside), regardless of what numbers you use.

Rick Summon's picture
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The Size of Sigil

Since In The Cage also says Sigil has a circumference of 20 miles, I always assumed the 5 mile diameter was meant to be 2R + 2r, but was simply an error made by the Harmonium, like the alleged incident where the Alabama legislature passed a law defining pi = 3. :mrgreen:

If Factol Sarin says pi = 4, then pi = 4, you sodding berks!

Factol Hashkar, remind me why we're allies with these people again?

Sigil could, of course, be larger on the inside than these calculations suggest; however, since most people have to walk to their destinations, it would be a heck of a long walk if Sigil was much bigger. Besides, if it's big enough for HSH The Sovereign Prince of Liechtenstein Hans-Adam II, it's big enough for me! :mrgreen:

Is there a way to post pictures in messages?

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The Size of Sigil

If Factol Sarin says pi = 4, then pi = 4, you sodding berks!

The interesting thing for me is that, if belief really can do anything, the Harmonium might actually be able to create a reality in which pi = 4.

since most people have to walk to their destinations, it would be a heck of a long walk if Sigil was much bigger.

Portals would help mitigate this somewhat, but granted.

Is there a way to post pictures in messages?

The best way is to upload the picture to a free picture-hosting site like Photobucket and then using BBCode ([url](url of image) [/url]) to hotlink to it.

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The Size of Sigil

Quote:
The interesting thing for me is that, if belief really can do anything, the Harmonium might actually be able to create a reality in which pi = 4.

News Flash: Planet Ortho Destroyed By Army of Moignos!

But seriously, here's the images I promised. This is a wireframe image of Sigil (with a = 3):

This is a shot inside the torus looking straight up:

And this is another shot at a 45 degree angle:

ripvanwormer's picture
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The Size of Sigil

Those are awesome, Rick. Thanks. Pictures of Sigil's ring in the sky have always been tough for me to draw.

Rick Summon's picture
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The Size of Sigil

Some Planescape sources seem to suggest that the only way to see the void "outside" of Sigil is to go to one of the edges and look over it. But, it's obvious from these images that you can easily see the "outside" simply by looking up. So, to me, the idea that it's some mystical "nothingness" that drives you barmy to behold just doesn't work. A better idea is that the "void" is actually the light source for Sigil. When it's day, you see brightness; when it's night, you see black.

Of course, that says nothing about what happens if you attempt to fly into the void. The best answer to that is: no one knows, because no one who's tried has ever come back.

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re

Problem is, when you are looking up, there are generally buildings over you, and since the sides of the cage curve, the buildings lean inward, overhead, at many points.

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The Void

'Jack of tears' wrote:
when you are looking up, there are generally buildings over you, and since the sides of the cage curve, the buildings lean inward, overhead, at many points.

Hi, long-time PSDM, first-time poster here. There's a Sigil weather chart (possibly in a Dragon) where one of the rolls is a clear sky (as opposed to the normal rain, green snow, and smog). The text describes it as making newcomers dizzy and sick, being able to see the Void so clearly.

So everybody's right. The buildings and smog normally block the sight of the Void (though you can still see lights from buildings across the torus at night), but when the weather is clear you can see the "sky" beyond the outer wall of buildings.

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The Size of Sigil

'Anthraxus']
'Jack of tears' wrote:
There's a Sigil weather chart (possibly in a Dragon) where one of the rolls is a clear sky (as opposed to the normal rain, green snow, and smog). The text describes it as making newcomers dizzy and sick, being able to see the Void so clearly.
I'd be very curious to see this weather chart since I was thinking of posting my own. Any idea where I might find it?

[/quote wrote:
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The Size of Sigil

Epp! Those are awesome - any chance I can get you to tilt the camera a little to the left on the second one for another shot? I've got a picture in mind for a guy walking out near Suicide Alley that I cannot for the life of me get perspective right on.

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The Size of Sigil

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I'd be very curious to see this weather chart since I was thinking of posting my own. Any idea where I might find it?

If this "Weather Chart" is what I think it is, you can find it at Mimir's "Brix's Guide to the Cage" -- specifically, Here.

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The Size of Sigil

'Rick Summon' wrote:
Of course, that says nothing about what happens if you attempt to fly into the void. The best answer to that is: no one knows, because no one who's tried has ever come back.

Pretty sure one of the 2E PS books said that folks who managed to get to the Void were flung off onto a random plane (inner, outer, prime, ethereal, astral, whatever). Don't quote me on that- I'm nowhere near my PS library.

Oh, and Cage-Rattler is right- I was thinking of Brix's weather chart.

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re

I'm fairly certain you're correct about what happens if you fly outside the cage - random tp to plane of the gms choosing.

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The Size of Sigil

I believe there has been conflicting information from the canon material on it, it came up in a previous thread. I'll see if I can find that one...

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