The Order of Knights Errant

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The Order of Knights Errant

Here's the second draft; please, comment: I need the feedback.

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Luc "Revision" French

The Order of Knights Errant

"The Yugoloth in Black fled across the Outlands, and the Gunslinger followed..." (With apologies to Stephen King.)

The Order of Knights Errant is not so much a true faction, as it is a group of like minded folk set upon making the world a better place, one fight at a time. The fact that many of their members leave a long trail of dead bodies behind them is entirely beside the point.

The Wanderers are right at the boundary between Faction and Sect; with a bit of organization, they could become a fully fledged Faction, but nobody in the group was actually pushing towards this until quite recently. Depending on how you define "Faction" and "Sect", they can be called a Faction, Sect, both (if your definitions are too loose), neither (if your definitions are too restrictive), or just bloody nuisances (if your operations have been foiled by their members too frequently).

Philosophy: Protect those who need protecting; defend those who need defending; defeat those who need defeating; kill those who need killing.
Nicknames: The Wanderers; the Ronin; the Avengers.
Headquarters: None; the closest thing the Order has to one is the Regulator's Guild in Sigil and Old Jenny's kip out in Arborea.
Majority Races: Humans, Elves, Bariaur, Aasimar.
Majority Classes: Dedicated Hero, Fast Hero; Gunslinger, Investigator.
Faction Prestige Classes: Ronin; Wandering Wizard; Knight of the Gun.
Factol: None.
Prominent Members: Lawrence Michaels (LG Male ???, Strong 3/Charismatic 4/Soldier 5/Knight of the Gun 2); Old Jenny (Female Elf CG, Smart 3/Mage 7/Wandering Wizard 3); Bill (CN Chaond, Dedicated 2/Smart 4/Fast 5/Ronin 2).
Alignment: Any non-evil, with chaotic tendencies.
Symbol: A sword, between a flower (usually a rose or a cherry blossom) and a gun (usually a pistol). (See The Badges for variations, and why they are notable.)

Philosophy:
Fight the Good Fight. Four words, that mean everything to the Wanderers. They dedicate their lives to fighting the Good Fight, regardless of the cost to them personally (and, in some cases, regardless of the cost, period). Protection and defense of the righteous but weak is theoretically their primary concern, while punishing the wicked and/or preventing their plans from coming to fruition is secondary. Everything else is unimportant (and that includes the lives of its members).

This is not to say that the Wanderers are universally grim killing machines; you're just as likely to find one helping out at a soup kitchen or working as an auditor in a company that's trying to clean up its act as you are to find one preparing for the defense of a town against tanar'ri bandits or searching for a weakness in the fortress of a particularly nasty 'loth.

The Order espouses very little in the way of philosophy; the most you'll find in official doctrine is that people are divided into three groups: the Righteous (to be protected or defended, if possible), the Unrighteous (to be defended or defeated, depending on the situation), and the Wicked (to be defeated or destroyed, depending on the individual in question). It's important to realize that it is entirely possible in a given situation for an unrepentant Baatezu to be Righteous (particularly if they are issuing a just punishment), and for natives of the Upper Planes to be counted among the Wicked.

Note that none of the above really says much about the universe; the Wanderers are not generally the people to go to for existentialist thought. Their general world view is summed up simply as "Who cares what the truth of the world is if the things that need doing don't get done?" This fact contributes to their status of balancing on the edge between Faction and Sect; after all, a Faction is usually defined as "Philosophers with clubs", and while the Order of Knights Errant has the clubs part down pat, they don't have much in the way of a deep philosophy.

Needless to say, the Wanderers are widely considered to be a horrible anachronism by many "modern" people. But, well, there's always folk who need protecting, and always folk whose schemes need stopping, and the Wanderers try to be there to help with both.

History:

Once upon a time in the Outlands, shortly after the end of the Pantheon War, there was a minor Demigod (let's call him Palance) who had set up kip near Carceri. Palance had betrayed the Triumvirate early in the war, then betrayed the Alliance late in the war, and was indirectly responsible for several hundred billion deaths in various Primes. At the end of the War, though, he came to an agreement with the 'loths, and was well protected.

And then, one day, nine heroes decided that he could not be allowed to continue to live under an open sky, and agreed to slay him. Six of them were killed in the effort, but three saw Palance die by his own hand rather then face justice, and were left with the decision of what to do. The 'loths, and several Powers, wanted them dead; and they would find no respite in the Upper Plains, for Palance had cursed them to never see a Plane of Good with his dying breath.

And from their wanderings following this battle, the seeds of an order of Knights formed; one that survived the death of high magic, the predations of the Factions during Age of Pain, and the turbulence of the Revelationary Era by never staying in the same place for very long, never looking back, and never settling down.

Their current status of being on the edge of a fully fledged Faction owes to two people: Old Jenny, who first invented the magical badges (see below) that all members of the Order wear, giving them a unity they had never had previously; and Lawrence Michaels, who took the Order's only real fixed place of business, the Regulator's Guild, and made it into a true (if minor) political player in Sigil.

Allies and Enemies:

For the most part, relations with other factions vary from slightly disdainful to slightly respectful, with no strong emotions; there are, however, two notable exceptions: The Hardheads view the Wanderers as dangerous and disruptive of harmony; and the Ciphers view them as slightly misguided, but on the right track, and worth aiding when the Cadence of the Planes allows (which is surprisingly frequently). The Wanderers generally don't care much about what beliefs a person has (they're more interested in the person then their beliefs), and thus tend not to care about Faction or Sect membership.

On the other hand, relations with Exemplars are much more... intense. The 'loths hate, hate, hate the Wanderers with a passion that surprises most observers, until they realize that the Order has interfered with their plans on a regular basis since slightly before it was formally formed. The tanar'ri loathe the Order, if not as much as the 'loths. The Baatezu view the Wanderers as anachronisms, but still occasionally dangerous. The Eldarin are very close allies to the Order. The Guardinals aid them sometimes, and frequently give advice. The Archons' view is a mirror of the Baatezu: anachronisms, but still occasionally useful. Neutrality is the order of the day with the Slaad and the [whatever the LN exemplar are], if for different reasons. Rilmani relations are almost non-existent; the Rilmani seem to avoid the Wanderers as much as possible, and the Wanderers usually return the favor. (This last has been the cause of some discussion among scholars of the Rilmani; finding five scholars who agree on an explanation for this is almost impossible.)

Note that all of these Exemplar entanglements have less to do with alignment then with the fact that their battles bring them into alignment or conflict with these Exemplars on a regular basis.

Goals:

If you are dealing with a Wanderer and you're not a member, you're either dealing with a Ronin (whose modus operandi are to wander around, doing good deeds as needed) or a member of the Regulator's Guild. Ronin usually don't care about politics, and have no discernible goals besides fighting the good fight, and maintaining the good name of the Order (and giving people interested in joining up directions to find Old Jenny's kip in Arborea, where there are people who will be more then happy to help you in your quest).

Members of the Regulator's Guild are slightly different. They tend to be much more politically aware, if only because they usually operate out of Sigil for hire, and thus are more likely to come into contact with political arguments of one sort or another. Their goals are usually fairly simple: Make sure the righteous are protected from evil; make sure no innocents are needlessly killed; make sure the job you were hired to do gets done; make sure that the wicked are punished, and the truly evil are killed, in roughly that order.

The Good Fight:

If you were to ask a Wanderer what "The Good Fight" means, well, you're likely to get one of three answers: The more philosophical members tend to state that in life, there are always things worth fighting for, worth living for, and even worth dying and/or killing for; what these things are varies from person to person, but Wanderers usually mention justice for the weak and/or balancing karma's ledger. The pragmatic tend not to think about it in those terms, but rather in terms of "What can I do to leave this situation better for the average person encountering it or involved in it?". And the more taciturn members tend to answer "Just watch and learn", which is decidedly unhelpful given that taciturn members tend to be the ones who cause the most spectacular pyrotechnics.

If the question is "How do you know whether a fight is a Good Fight" or "How do you know if something is worth fighting for?", there are three answers: The more literal minded members suggest a strict order of priorities: Protect those who need Protecting, Defend those who need Defending, Defeat those who need Defeating, and then Kill those who need Killing (and, if they've been trained properly, can state how to identify each mentioned group). The more mystical members talk about "going where we are needed, and doing what we implicitly know needs doing"; practical people view this as evidence of the Wanderer in question having been in contact with the Ciphers for too long, with some justification in most cases. The taciturn members just say, "I follow my nose", or some other sensory organ.

Why fight the Good Fight? Again, three answers: the more practical members tend to think in terms of "somebody needs to do it, and nobody else seems willing to do it, so I will". The more idealistic members believe it's the Right Thing to do, and in fact, for them, is the only thing to do that's worth doing. And the taciturn members just say "Because it needs doing" and leave it at that.

Now, an important bit to realize is that when the Good Fight is finished (or at least, a member's part in it), that member should move on to find another Good Fight. Once their task is done, a Wanderer tends to vanish into the night, not asking for any reward but a job well done.

The Badges:

These are the artifacts that transformed the Order of Knights Errant from a not widely known group that almost wasn't worthy of the title of Sect, and brought them firmly into notability across the planes. They do two things: first, they act as an infallible mark of the wearer's character, and second, they show a member who uses it where they are needed.

The Badges are made from the willingly surrendered bits of the flesh of an Eldarin, and are easily recognized as such; they show the Symbol of the faction, and show the status of the wearer, in very particular ways:

If the sword is missing from the symbol, the member is an apprentice.
If the the gun is missing, the member is retired.
If the flower is missing, the member is no longer following the ideals of the Order. (Those who show this version of the symbol tend to quickly lose their Badges, for several subtly obvious reasons.)
A single symbol means the wearer is the equivalent of a Namer, or in some cases a close ally of a full member.
The relative size and placement of the three sub-symbols can tell you quite a bit about the history and personality of the wearer.
If none of the symbols are seen, then the wearer is *not* a member of the Order.

The badges are easy to recognize (a DC 5 Knowledge (Factions) and DC 10 Spot roll will do), and are widely known to be nearly impossible to properly forge. (In game terms, you'd need to make at least 5 DC 30 rolls across several skills to create such a forgery, and a failure on any one of these rolls makes the falsehood obvious to close inspection; more then one and it's obvious even from a distance.)

The second special property of the badges is that if anybody (member or not) holds one in their hand (or equivalent) and rubs it, a sword will appear, pointing in the direction they are most needed (or a flower if they are needed where they are). Note that this: 1) Doesn't tell you about the situation that you are needed for, 2) Directs you to where you are needed, not necessarily where you need to be, and 3) Doesn't tell you how far it is if actual travel is involved, although, if while traveling you don't stop voluntarily, you are usually guaranteed to get there in time.

The Regulator's Guild:

Used to be, this was just a single person, the Guildmaster, usually found in the Minder's Guild, who offered slightly cheaper services for those in true need. The Sodkillers tolerated this competition because the Wanderers generally worked jobs that were considered fool's errands or too risky for the money offered, they never operated in Sigil, and (when somebody tried to object on philosophy grounds) because the Regulators only took jobs that veered towards justice of one sort or another.

The Guildmaster was in regular contact with members of the Order through various means, and recruited members for the purposes of the missions he, she, or it had arranged. The Guildmaster was usually a slightly risky job (although not as much as you might think, because he was in theory a member of the Minder's Guild, and thus theoretically under the protection of the Sodkillers), and thus there was a regular turnover of Guildmasters throughout the history of the Wanderers.

This arrangement came to an end eighty years ago, with the invention of the Badges. The Guild was considered unnecessarily for the purposes of the Order. The Regulator's Guild was due to be diminished in importance, until a minor Wanderer of unknown origins, Lawrence Michaels, asked for the Guildmaster's position. Michaels broke with the Minders Guild, and expanded into investigative services.

The Guild, today, is a true, if minor, political player: they offer protection services that are surprisingly low-priced; they operate in the Hive, helping police the worst of the worst; they act as investigators for hire; they still offer mercenary services, but of a different (and usually cheaper) sort than the Sodkillers. They also have a lot of information about various... interesting things, and have been hired by the oddest of organizations.

Politics:

The Ronin are not involved in planar politics all that much, except as a thorn in the side of various fiends (especially the Yugoloths).

The Regulator's Guild, on the other hand, have some complicated relations with the Factions and groups in Sigil.

Relations between the Guild and the Factions (and their various fronts), with two exceptions, may be fairly characterized as indifferent; Guild doctrine is to treat everybody as an individual, regardless of beliefs, and the various Factions and Sects return the official disinterest, for the most part. The two exceptions are the Harmonium and the Ciphers. The Harmonium views the Guild as a minor threat to the Greater Cosmic Harmony (not unjustifiably; Regulators have been involved in some of the more impressively chaotic incidents in Sigil); the fact that many prominent members have been shown as inflexible fools or hypocrites several times by various Regulators on several occasions is entirely beside the point. The Transcendent Order is generally are helpful in counteracting the effects of the Harmonium's paranoia, and is also a regular employer of the Guild.

The Corporations from the Upper Planes frequently subcontract out to the Guild when they need extra muscle or security. Most other kinds of Corporations (even some who hail from the Lower Planes) occasionally hire the Guild when they need short term security or extra muscle for legitimate (if not always exactly legal) jobs. The Guild, for its part, tends to view most Corporate jobs as things to do when you don't have anything more important to do; the prevailing view is that Corporations are a tool, one that can also be made into a mask for dark deeds.

The Police Force tends to view the Regulator's with strong distaste (thanks to the influence of the Hardhead members and the 'loths), but is not actually persecuting them; they are, after all, almost always on the right side of the Law; and when they aren't, they're usually on the right side of Justice, and willing to take the punishment for their crimes (those who aren't... well, let's just say that they almost never have a rose on their Badges, and leave it at that). The Guild, due its frequent dealings with the police in various capacities, is likely to react to the individual policeman, not the badge; truly corrupt policemen are viewed as problems to be overcome, while honest policemen are treated with politeness and respect.

The rest of the City government generally doesn't care that much for the Guild (they've been involved in some pretty spectacular property damage over the years), but not to the point of actual dislike (after all, said property damage was usually incurred in the process of preventing the deaths of large numbers of citizens). The Guild members usually have varying dealings with the government according to the corruption level of the individual and branch of City government.

Movers and Shakers:

The Order of Knights Errant can be roughly broken up into three sub-orders, classified by leader:

Lawrence Michaels:

The Guildmaster of the Regulator's Guild, Michaels is a cunning, clever, and above all dangerous being of unknown origins. He looks like a fit human male (although, given that he's been around more than two hundred years without aging a day, has never been known to sleep, and isn't undead, the assumption that he isn't in any way truly human is fairly common), with black hair and dark brown eyes. His demeanor is unfailingly polite and courteous, even when the guns come out.

Bill:

The most notable of the Ronin subgroup, and by most accounts the closest thing the Ronin have to a leader, Bill is rather tall, and even more subject to the Chaond's racial tendency to shift in appearance than is normal; his facial features have been known to change from day to day. His personality, on the other hand, is less variable then is typical for a Chaond, or for that matter, anybody who has spent a large amount of time in Limbo. He earns a decent living as a gambler, and tends to wait a while before taking action, unlike most of his compatriots.

Old Jenny:

The closest thing the Order has to a Factol or a Sectol, Old Jenny is the leader of the Supporters, who are mainly responsible for the training of new members, and what support services the Order maintains (usually just equipment). "Old Jenny" is actually a nickname; her original name and history are unknown, as she was found by some Wanderers a hundred and fifty years ago after being forcibly administered water from the Styx by person or persons unknown, and, other then an occasional vague hint, no information has been forthcoming. Jenny is middle aged (for an elf), is somewhat short for an elf, has red hair and orange eyes. Her personality is highly pragmatic, if somewhat blunt.

Upon Names:

Avenger: Don't call any member of the Order in good standing an Avenger where they might hear; Avengers are (officially) those who have been expelled from the Order for not holding to the ideals of the Order; it also tends to be used as a term of abuse by people (usually fiends) who don't want to live much longer (most members take being called an Avenger rather personally).
Knight: Found in a few (misguided) historical documents. No member of the Order would call themselves a Knight unless they held such a rank independent of their membership in the Order.
Regulator: Any member of the Regulator's Guild, member of the Order or not, can be called a Regulator.
Ronin (both singular and plural): Any member of the Order who isn't a Regulator, a Supporter, or retired gets called a Ronin.
Supporter: If a member is usually found in one place, and isn't a member of the Regulator's Guild, they may safely be called "Supporter", which is roughly equivalent to what most Factions would call a Namer.
Wanderer: The most common nickname for a member of the Order; applies to all members, even those who have retired and settled down.

Current Events:

Almost all of the above text was written before the recent Laugher bounty, which deeply disturbed many members of the Order in Sigil at the time; what disturbed them even more was the fact that nobody, not the Guvners, not the Sodkillers, not even the Laughers, seemed to have learned anything from the debacle. The Guvners still think the bounty was a good idea; the Sodkillers were brought more firmly into the hold of the 'loths; and some of the Laughers seem to have gone off in the direction of revenge, rather then staying true to their beliefs (oddly, to a typical Wanderer, the fact that the rest of 'em Laughed it off is more forgivable; a man who forgives and sticks to his beliefs is more likely to be among the Righteous, after all). It smelled like a 'loth plot. What's more, it smelled like a 'loth plot from a mile off.

And the Regulator's Guild, along with the Order proper, had to just sit by, mostly helpless to prevent it. Oh, they could minimize the damage, make sure that as many Laughers as possible survived, and expose the excesses for what they were to help stop the madness earlier; but they couldn't do anything to prevent it from happening, since they were "merely a Sect, not worthy of our attention", in the words of the then Factol of the Fraternity of Order (since sacked for various indiscretions that came to light as a result of a Shiner/Regulator co-investigation instigated by Lawrence Michaels).

So, some members of the Order (called Factionists) proper have decided that the time has come to shore themselves up, and become a full Faction. This can and will lead to a variety of problems. The expected problems include, in a rough order of threat: the 'loths, the various other enemies the Order has piled up, the Harmonium, the other Factions, and finally a certain degree of apathy towards the push from some members of the Order itself.

There are various steps, and they all need to be completed. The Order needs a firmer philosophical ground to stand on; to most people, "Fight the Good Fight", standing on its own, is not necessarily a belief system worthy of a full Faction. They need more influence. They need to start openly recruiting. They need to be recognized by most of the other Factions as a Faction. And the list goes on.

Meta/DM Considerations:

Use as Antagonists:
The obvious choice to use here is Avengers (or near Avengers), those who have stopped caring about the Good Fight and started mainly caring about other things (for example, getting Justice no matter the cost); or, if a member in good standing is called for, misunderstandings (or active framings) are also usually needed. More subtle uses include interference (those Regulators get *everywhere*), troublemakers (Ronin are not noted for their subtlety once the guns come out, or for that matter, their subtlety period), rivals (you're both after the same target, only the Wanderer aims to kill him), and direct or indirect causes of general mayhem (which, after all, is many Wanderers' stock-in-trade).

A Partial Adventure Hook:
An adventure could be made of a five facts: 1) That Lawrence Michaels has become part of the Factionists 2) In order to achieve this goal, he has decided to give the Order a firmer philosophical base in order to be able to be able to claim full Faction status, 3) In order to do this, he needs to consult with Old Jenny, Bill and other senior members of the Order in person, 4) Such a gathering of senior members would be a mighty tempting target for many of the enemies of the Order, and 5) The only logical place to hold such a gathering is Sigil. Given that secrecy is a must for such a gathering, the first most of Sigil would hear of such an event would be the explosions.

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I can see where you are trying to go with this. In order for it to be a full-fledged faction, IMO, it needs to make some statement about the universe rather than just a goal or a way of life just as those that view cooking as the highest art form aren't part of any faction because they have no outlook on the universe at large. I think that was the problem with the Redeemers as well.

There's nothing right now critically wrong with what you've written. It's basically an issue of focus and clarity. Edit the philosophy a bit. Saying "Protect those who need protecting; defend those who need defending; defeat those who need defeating; kill those who need killing" only says what they do, not why they do it.

Otherwise, it does have style, and do continue to work on it.

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Edit: Add a paragraph to Philosophy, noting the fact that the Order's lack of existentialist ideas is part of why they aren't a fully fledged Faction.

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Luc "Edge case" French

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'WithoutNationality' wrote:
There's nothing right now critically wrong with what you've written. It's basically an issue of focus and clarity. Edit the philosophy a bit. Saying "Protect those who need protecting; defend those who need defending; defeat those who need defeating; kill those who need killing" only says what they do, not why they do it.

Opinion seconded. Factions are about belief not actions. Actions come from belief... that's why you can have two members of the same faction react entirely differently in a situation - yet both be from the same faction. So you need to answer that question about *why* they act as they do... then leave the actions that the belief leads to up to the player or NPC's personality and choice.

Think of us as particularly persistant four year olds. We'll keep asking "But... why?" until you get to the root of things. Eye-wink

And since I like what I'm seeing so far and I wanna hear more... *clears throat, voice gets all whiney* "....why?" Eye-wink

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'Clueless' wrote:
"....why?" Eye-wink

Here's an answer, of sorts:

It's my intention (backed up by the poll I did) to have the lack of deeper philosophy be part of an ongoing plot hook; many members of the Order in Sigil were deeply disturbed by the recent bounty on Laughers, and have decided the benifits of their current status (most Factions tend to deal with the Wanderers as if they were just another Sect) aren't worth the inability to act clearly when something as wrong as that happens again (and, given that the Guvners, the Sodkillers, and, for that matter, the Laughers have all failed to learn the important lessons of that debacle, the recurrence of such an event seems likely).

Among the first step is to deepen their philosophical underpinnings, so that their claims of Factionhood is taken seriously. (Even the Bleakers and Indeps can be called coherant in their worldview compared to the Order.) And this *will* lead to problems, given how most of the members tend to intentionally avoid thinking about that sort of thing.

Alternately, if you're asking for a clearer reason for this lack of deep thought in their Philosophy, just think of the Wanderers as, by in large, pragmatic in the extreme. They tend to view the world as a fairly simple place that most sentient beings seek to unnessisarily complicate. There's Right, and there's Wrong; who cares about whether the world runs on [laws/ chaos/ charity/ self-interest/ entropy/ harmony/ whatever]? Whatever it is that the world runs on, it won't prevent bad people from doing bad things on its own, and it won't insure that decent folk aren't terrorized by some fiend or other; and those should come before any philosophy nonsense.

Is that a good enough set of answers, for the moment?

Thanks
Luc "Because" French

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Edit: Add in the Current Events and Meta/DM Considerations section, along with a slight alteration to the intro.

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Luc "Fitting in with the plot hook" French

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EDIT: Reworking the Philosophy section, spinning off the Good Fight into its own section, adding in a new nickname that isn't used. Also, changed the title.

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Luc "Touchup" French

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One thing I just recently thought of is for the Knights to use Kantian-style deontological ethics. Their essential belief is that of the categorical imperative. Your duty is to do what is right, no matter what, and if you shirk your duty, you are evil. This leads them to their relative single-minded-ness in fighting the "Good Fight" as they would find those of competing ethical and moral systems to be shirking their prime duty in life.

Essentially, they would believe that it is their duty to fight evil where it is found, and they define good as what is right in all situations. Within the faction, there would be arguments over what precisely is Right and Good, but overall, they would tend to act similarly. This makes their pragmatism philosophic in nature, as they aren't necessarily as prone to asking questions about good and evil, as they believe they already understand it.

CG cutters still would show up, as they believe in fighting the good fight and don't care as much about staying within the law, which often leads them to fight against more Lawful types. Lawful ones would be more prone to handing out what they see as justice or promoting order within the overall structure of the multiverse.

As a result, the Avengers would tend to meddle a lot in each others' affairs, leading to the lack of a factol; though they agree that the Good Fight needs to be fought, there is wide disagreement about what that IS, and since they have individually, and personally each made a decision about what it is, it is incredibly hard for any one member's ideas to gain broad enough support for a factol in general. However, when fighting evil, they would often put aside their differences to fight the manifestations of it then and there.

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... I think my brain loves you.

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Thanks.

Honestly, it came up when I was thinking about paladin-types in general, and how to avoid the Lawful Stupid archetype that seems to be so common. The Knights Errant are certainly among the more paladin-friendly faction ideas, perhaps equal to the Harmonium or Sons of Mercy in that regard. The fact that paladins (especially the Lawful Stupid subset) tend to be RPed as being very 'with me or against me' and 'it's not ok to do that, ever!' leads me to think "Gotta be Kant for them..."

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Kestral: You care to try to make a pass at a new version of the writeup? You have my full permission to at least make the attempt. I reserve the right to critisize you, of course, but given that I want the Knights to actually become a part of the UP landscape, I'm very open to having this taken over by somebody better at writing then I am.

Thanks
Luc "Invitation" French

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The Order of Knights Errant

Well, I'm better at philosophy and big ideas than I am at mechanics, largely, though I did feel the Knight originally needed some direction. I also think your original ideas are pretty sound, though I did feel they needed SOME philosophic underpinning. My idea was just a way to explain the apparent philosophic shallowness, and perhaps create a reason for these guys to be around. Kantian ethics works well to define the Knights in general, and explains their worldview pretty succinctly. It also gives the more philosophic players among us a touchstone as to the motivations of these guys to Fight the Good Fight, and for why the Knights have solidified into at least an appearance of a faction. I would say appearance only, in some ways, as the Knights as previously described would still be too fractured and independent on the whole to factionalize at all quickly; they'd be more inclined to do so than the majority of the Indeps, as most would recognize that standing together means they would have a better chance at fighting Evil on a large scale, but less likely to do so than a lot of others, as the Harmonium's insistance on rules and regulations would stifle many of them and most of the other factions would either be too filled with evil or too philosophically disinclined to battle for potential members of the Knights.

Plus, the way I see it, anyone as devoted to a cause as the Knights generally has some guiding reason to be so, and that reason is usually hooked into their philosophic worldview. For most members of the Knights, their worldview IS to 'Fight the Good Fight' regardless of how much it personally hurts them to do so. This is usually the sign of someone who has an extreme devotion to duty, and for D&D's good characters, that typically means someone who follows a Kantian ethical system. Good is Good, and what is Right is what is Good, and it is one's Duty to Do What Is Right. (Yes, the capitals were intended) That is, in some ways, the basis of the Categorical Imperative. In this case, it also is the basis of the Knights' worldviews, as you have previously wrote. Thus, the two make a good match, and the Kant stuff adds that bit of philosophy that makes PS what it is, and is a reason for a lot of us working on UPS to be doing so.

Edward Davis's picture
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The Order of Knights Errant

If I could interject, if the Order of the Knight Errant needs a philosophical backbone to be considered a faction, I would imagine that merging into the newly formed Sons of Mercy would makes sense. If the Knights need public validation and support, merging with the Martyrs would be a great step in the right direction. They don't have to be formed from the remains of the Sons, they can have indepentent origins, but I think that after a while the Martyrs would take notice and many of the knights would find themselves approached by recruiters.

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The Order of Knights Errant

'Edward Davis' wrote:
If I could interject, if the Order of the Knight Errant needs a philosophical backbone to be considered a faction, I would imagine that merging into the newly formed Sons of Mercy would makes sense. If the Knights need public validation and support, merging with the Martyrs would be a great step in the right direction. They don't have to be formed from the remains of the Sons, they can have indepentent origins, but I think that after a while the Martyrs would take notice and many of the knights would find themselves approached by recruiters.

Here's the thing: The Wanderers would view the Sons with a slight degree of contempt as a "failed Faction", and their philosophy as anathema.

You see, the philosophy (such as it is) of the Wanderers is about DOING good, not BEING good. They don't believe in being shining examples; they tend to view those with such goals with (justified) cynicism.

And then there's the utter failure of the Sons (in the view of almost all members of the Order); one of the founders was a former Martyr, and there's a section in the Order's founding document discussing the failures of the Sons, and why their efforts were doomed in the opinions of the founding members; in addition, Order training courses almost always discuss the failure of the Sons in some detail to teach various lessons.

To get a rough understanding of the Wanderers, imagine them as midway between the Transcendent Order and the Sons of Mercy, with hints of Indep and Bleaker mixed in.

Thanks
Luc "Tonal" French

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Re: The Order of Knights Errant

Just so you know, the LN exemplars are the Modrons.

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