The new 'Faction War' Adventure

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Caladors's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

the planescape adventures were really 'wow' to me I mean to say they have that certain factor that just blows your socks off and the ammount of redious detail they go into.
But enough rambling.

Basicly the idea I had is perhaps you guys could make moudles, ending like the others did in a factor wars style adventure where the players get to go through adveture where it radically changes the scape of the planes? ok very very bad pun.
But still I don't think the idea is half bad, my idea is thus so i mean they very much layed the ground work for it in the previous planescape adventures and supplements.

The minds eye and more importantly former memeber of signers are trying to restore Alothar, i mean come on there is so much room for doing something like that, Fell, Mind eye splintering back to there orginal parts or collasping completely, peoples trying to stop PCs because of bad buissness (if i recall correctly i do believe one could whisper a pray to Alothar and use anygate key the wished or soemthing along those lines)

Sure this is all rather vague but for me at least what was the most impressive thing about your site was the 3.5 update Planescape Equivently making a new campagin setting and all of it was well thought out alot better than i thought orginally as I have been researching I have found it to be more relevent that i thought but yeah i thought i would just throw the idea your way guys but i know what got me here and thats the great files an not nessarily the forums.

So perhaps a supplement or ect ultimently leading up to a Faction War style adventure where the PC get to change the fate of Sigil and the planes.

maybe it is just desire to see yet another epic ballad.

But hey do with it what you want. just and idea but I think a rather good one.

Iavas's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

Considering the amount of official or semiofficial Post Faction War adventures that are out there right now (I can count them on one hand), I'd say that it's a tad too early to start planning another planeshattering adventure such as the Faction War. However, most 'normal' Planescape adventures are exciting enough to be epic in scope, depending on how you handle them.

Also - not to be rude, but adding punctuation more than once per paragraph will really help others understand what you're saying. I got rather lost while reading your post, especially near the end there.

Armoury99's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

In some dim and distant future, I'd love to see the 'trilogy' of plane-shattering events that started with Faction War completed (quite possibly with the Factions returning to the Cage), but that's a LOT of work for folks who don't write professionally (meaning get paid) or full time - especially when there's so much setting work still to be done.

(On the other hand if you're about to announce you have a load of cash to spend, I'm ready to quit my job and start working on PS right now!!!!)

I think so many people were shocked and appalled by Faction War's consequences because they'd fallen in love so completely with the PS setting. We need that kind of feeling to be generated by the post FW setting before we go and jiggle it up again. Plus just about all the original PS adventures felt like they were evolving the world, and were part of an unfolding storyline, which would also need to be included before we even got to the major events.

To summerise: Lots and lots and lots of work, starting with a unified idea of what the PS "meta-story" should be, and how it should unfold via its published scenarios. Good luck on getting a consensus on that!

Also, we have a lamentable lack of complete scenarios (as opposed to scenario seeds, which we have oodles of and numerous great ones). Until that changes, you're unlikely to see any massive "super adventures" here...

Caladors's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

I know at first i was also omg how can they do that?! they have ruined everything, but after the shock I all I wanted to do was run a group through the faction war adventure because it was a very cool adventure.

Yes i was gibbering on for some time there and should have made it more consice sorry about that.

But yeah I noticed something about all of the planescape adventures there all rather 'earth shattering' I think It would be good if we had some more stuff out there like that.

Dead Gods and Fires of Dis pre-Faction Wars were all rather epic but Factions Wars changed the setting at it's core what it was all about, it didn't change moods or encounter problems it changed the whole thing.

And i guess some people are afraid of change, which is kinda ironic seeing that sigil is the center of the multi-verse things are going to change alot there.

Clueless's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

Caladors? Did you not see all the Brainstorming threads on this sub-forum for the PSCS? Module creation is what those are *about*. Eye-wink

So give us time to get all the brianstorming, plots and thoughts out of our system and onto paper or PDF so to speak. In the meantime check out the Hooks section of the site for further information.

Iavas's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

Speaking of which, Clueless, anything I can do to lend a hand, besides adding my convoluted and usually unasked for thoughts to the forum topics? Granted, I've not the freedom to be a fulltime volunteer, but I think I have sufficient interest in the setting to add something meaningful to this new iteration.

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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

Pretty much kicking over any ideas you have and keeping the conversation going is about where we are right now. I need to go back through the brainstorms and pull out the parts we're going to go with and develop. I don't mind folks chattering over anything we don't pick up on - but if we want to have something solid for downloading and letting people play... eventually a decision's gotta get made. Eye-wink t's just a LOT of stuff to wade through, and I've been lazy lately.

Caladors's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

Kicking over?.... Any ideas?

Caladors's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

Well it's been six months since I last commented here and was 'kicked over'.
Which though voluntary, it really seemed like bad wording and there was no reply to my last comment which left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't think it was a way to encourage growth lets just say that.
Well I think if this was on page seven you'd have a point but with a month between comments I figure that anyone’s ideas should be heard.

Anywho, I still think it is a good idea, finishing up what has been started. To me since then reviewing my thoughts the War seemed too unfinished mostly the whole place is up in arms.
And another clash seems to be coming up ahead after all look at WW it caused a lot problems didn't fix them.
And in the end were just the start of a greater conflict.

It seems that if you give an epic tilt to modules it makes them more vibrant and alive than just fighting to survive the status quo.
Some Ideas to Kick around.

Armoury99's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

Well we have started (kind of, a bit), but are concentrating on reintroducing folk to 3e Planescape and the post-Faction War setting - building the same solid groundwork that Fires of Dis, Harbinger House, etc did before throwing in the Hellbound/Faction War level stuff.

There was some talk leading on from this thread on both the "introductory adventure" threads - I think Dialexis is doing most of the kicking around so far:

[url]/forum]
[url]/forum]

There's also some phenomenal ideas by Jem buried in here: [url]/forum]

As to exactly what major campaign scenario I'd favour, at present I'd go for (in all seriousness) "What The Hell Was That?" - a scenario to explain all the multiverse-spanning changes that occur from 2e to 3 - 3.5.

Armoury99's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

An edition to my earlier post: How about making the Faction War the first part of a trilogy, the ‘Plane Wars’ campaign (any Star Wars comparisons are accidental): So “Faction War” is followed by say “Sigil War”, and “Blood War” (just examples). Unfortunately being a player rather than DM, I don’t know the dark of what goes on in Faction War so can’t comment on how expandable it is.

If you’re looking for things to do though, I have a suggestion Laughing out loud

As someone who’s working on an ‘official’ PSCS adventure right now, what I think any future projects would find really useful is a complete list of all potential seeds and plot threads remaining from earlier scenarios: Things never explained, resolved, or of unclarified origins – like the barmy fiend from Carceri in Something Wild, who’s chanting foreshadows Hellbound, I think.

That would be very helpful to all future developments and help tie PSCS adventures into the earlier edition.

But while we’re on the subject…

Speaking of kicking ideas around, this one was inspired by the “I need to kill the Lady of Pain” thread. Rip’s response to the question sent off some inspirational fireworks in my head.

'ripvanwormer' wrote:
According to Planes of Law, the baatezu in Dis are building an artificial replica of Sigil in order to study how the portals work and try to reproduce it.

Instead of killing the Lady of Pain, why not just say that their project has succeeded? They don't need to kill the Lady because they've got their own Sigil, just as useful as the first one

The main problem with getting ideas for “the New Faction War adventure” is thinking up something appropriately epic (in a setting that’s as epic as it gets) and clever/weird/planescapey enough to be a really top shelf idea. Quite a daunting proposition.

I’d had nothing whatsoever to suggest so far, but now I’ve thought of this:

Of Catechism & Cage - AKA: “Sigil War”

At present its just the bare bones of an idea.

Something strange is going on in the Cage. You can’t put your finger on it but something just feels wrong in Sigil… (PCs can notice these effects over several other adventures)

A piece of graffiti the PC scrawled last time they were in the Cage has changed to something similar but not the same.

A neighbour fails to recognise them – or seems to know them too well.

Someone can’t remember a conversation they had with the party, last time they were in town. The next time the PCs’ visit however, they do remember.

A major building looks slightly different.

Dabus don’t seem to be doing much anymore except float around

They meet someone in the planes who claims not to have seen them for ages – but the PCs met her in the Cage only recently.

The truth is, they’re not actually in Sigil anymore. Unknown forces are manipulating the PCs (probably the Lady, who can perform such tricks) and whenever they think they’re taking a portal to Sigil, they’re actually going to “Sigil2” – the Baatezu recreation of the Cage. Their plans are reaching fruition and the city is currently up and running as a full simulation.

More clues are available for characters who dig deeper:

Characters come across a pair of disguised Baatezu ‘fixing’ a broken dabus.

Noticing the Polymorphed fiends

Detecting shifts in the city’s landscape

Finding a construct of the Lady of Pain in storage (a modified permanent Phantasmal Killer?)

Once the PC’s investigations get properly underway however, they’re rudely interrupted – The Baatezu launch a grand invasion of the city. This is the DM’s opportunity to go completely wild: Lady’s Ward in flames! Blow up the festhall! Spheres of Annihilation flying overhead! Dabus armed with pikes! The last stand of the City Guard! Giant mechanical war machines rolling out of the Armoury!

I liked that part Laughing out loud

The invaders are met by celestial/adventurer resistance as well as Tanar’ri forces, but all are soon defeated. People cry out for the Lady, but she does not appear. The adventure becomes an occupation: PCs can either join the resistance, ‘collaborate’ (possibly taking part in the provisional government) in an effort to gain power or save lives, or just try and keep their heads down. Obviously, all portals out of “Sigil” stop working at this point

Somehow the PCs learn the truth – possibly having delved into the Baatezu command centre beneath the Hall of Speakers (here the walls mix with the red-hot iron of Dis). The PCs free some captive dabus (?) who warn them that this is not the real Sigil.

Suggested climaxes include the two Sigil’s becoming intertwined – probably leading to a precipitous invasion of the real Sigil by Baatezu/Sigil2’s forces (a chance for Factol Rhys to duel herself and other madness…) and a final desperate run out of the simulation by the PCs, who are trying to outrun the Lady’s will as she transforms the false Cage into one giant Maze, with all the fakes safely trapped within it.

We could kick that idea around for a bit?

Duckluck's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

That's pretty awesome. The real question is, how do we want to do this? This is obviously too significant to be just a quick adventure for the players to chew on for a session or two, but how big do we really want it? Will this be a normal adventure (say 5-10 encounters taking place over about a few play sessions), or do we want this to be a planes altering behemoth like Faction War? Depending on which one we pick, we will have to make some changes to the above synopsis so it works.

Normal Adventure:
-No lead-up: For a standard aventure, we want DMs to be able to just pick it up and run it without having to hint at the change for several days beforehand (we can, however, included a sidebar for people who want to go that route).

-Keep it contained: If we are going with a smaller adventure, we should probably have this adventure start when the players enter Sigil2 for the first time and then not let them leave until the end, that way it can progress at a reasonable rate and also doesn't take over the DM's campaign.

-Don't reinvent the wheel: There are just some things that are beyond the scope of a normal adventure. I say we restrict ourselves from making any major changes to the setting (no killing the Lady or having a fiendish army conquer Sigil, for instance) and only making minor changes to the setting when they are appropriate (you can do whatever you want to Sigil2, but you shouldn't just kill off a random character because you're bored or anything like that).

-Don't make it too epic: Planescape is all about weird and awesome things happening with little warning, but massive plane-altering events (like Sigil and Sigil2 merging), or epic but pointless clashes of the titans (the Lady fighting Dispater, for instance) should be done in moderation, if at all. There's plenty enough of that in Forgotten Realms, thank you. Dispater, or one of his proxies should totally wind up getting Mazed though (Don't worry, his followers can always just believe him back to Dis).

Extended Adventure:
-Plenty of lead up: If you want to turn the Sigil2 incident into a major planar event, you've got to give some warning. There should be plenty of hinting and forshadowing before the adventure starts up properly.

-Give the players some mobility: Most adventures can be completed in a few sessions and there is little benefit to breaking them up and squeezing side-quests into them. Not so for larger aventures. Long adventures carry the risk of causing the players to become bored and disinterested. Therefore it is necessary that you give the players and DMs a certain amount of freedom of movement. In Faction War, for instance, the action was divided into five parts, only two of which were essential, and encouraged the DM to do or skip them in whatever order he saw fit.

Don't reinvent the wheel, just add a tire: In a large adventure you are not only aloud to, but encouraged to make some real changes to the setting. That said, you still shouldn't tear everything down and start from scratch, especially this soon (relatively speaking) after Faction War.

Enjoy the epicness: Your adventure is allowed to be fun, exciting, and even jaw-dropping. Go ahead, give Sigil an extra Ward or have the Lady and the Lady2 maze each other. As long as it makes for a better story without derailing the setting, it's golden. Just remember what I said about already having a Forgotten Realms.

I hope my advice has been illucidating. I personally prefer the shorter version, it's less of an undertaking, and it might might make a good follow-up to Desire and the Dead.

Caladors's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

Well I am just going on the fly here but the thing is with the major organizations leaving Sigil or unable or afraid to interfere I this as a time when individuals would rise to the top rather than whole organizations. (Organizations as big as the factions I mean.)
So it seems kind of like a cycle when you think about it.

Ok So I don't know what happened before the Guilds.
But the guilds were more powerful than the Factions at one point if remember correctly, any who the factions were a whole lot of different sub sets of ideas, turn sigil into there own bad action movie.
(Gangs of New York muchly?)
Anywho the Lady say blah you bad ect, make less of yourselves so that’s what happened.

Anyway we come to after the faction war.
There are very remaining organizations, the ones that are there are not ideologies but more just people trying to keep sigil running.
So anywho you think about this.
When there is no body big around the children come out to play.
So there would be a number of high level characters planar and primes whom would have been stifled by the factions but now there left to run free.
But no body everything on there own so organizations would form around there people.
Eventually people would move on from violence or natural causes but the organization would remain.
Any one whom didn't run the whole show themselves would leave an organization behind imprinted with there thoughts and ideology, often these people would be ones that didn't agree with the Factions otherwise they would simple be Faction member.

So in conclusion what would have is the same mini factions as before and the cycle seems to start up again.
I don't know if that seems like twisted logic.

Sorry that didn't help much with the whole thing about making an adventure.
Just random ramblings about the whole Plane's War Cycle you had.

As for an adventure I don't know how it would work but I think
Duckluck put some good ground work for the Idea.
Sorry I'm not very good with doing flesh work on the whole thing but just putting some ideas out there so that it with any hope helps someone else.

Azriael's picture
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The new 'Faction War' Adventure

Would Sigil 1 & 2 merging necessarily be an planes-shattering event? I could see this going a number of ways. What I see the baatezu plan as being is confusing belief to such a level that Sigil 2 becomes Sigil 1. If this merge happens too early then the lady steps in and the gig's up for the baatezu and they lose a bit of ground to the outlands - rather embarrassing if anyone ever finds out. Alternately if the whole thing is planned just right then the baatezu invasion will happen just in time so that everyone believes that the lady was unable to prevent the Baatezu invasion and when the two merge things continue on as planned for the baatezu (and can play-out the remainder of your scenario although hopefully the adventurers can turn things around before the merge).

As to ways that this could be done one springs to mind for me which would allow a number of low-level tie-ins:
The Baatezu cover known portals into Sigil 1 with portals leading to Sigil 2. Naturally this involves some manner of deus et machina which allows a device/spell planted on a location to cast an infinite number of gate spells but once you get past that the Baatezu would make great patrons for low level plane-walkers as they scout out new portals/perform minor tasks while being trailed/carrying a baatezu informant. I can see a hell of a lot of infiltration going on within the Doorsnoops guild and the Planewalkers guild in order to facilitate this. After a while merchants just stop coming to Sigil 1 and anone who goes out to investigate returns (to Sigil 2) to find that everything's sorted out and things are going on as they should (more or less).

Anyway, those are just some more ideas to throw in the pot. I haven't proof-read so sorry if my grammar/coherance sucks.

Love the way people's thoughts are going on this though and if this is done with anywhere near the skill I've seen on the Desire and the Dead thread then this'll be a great product.

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