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Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

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Thu, 2009-12-17 02:49
#1
Sword of Spirit
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Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

I'm trying to remember the differences between how the teleportation and plane shift spells worked in previous (pre-3rd) edition versions. It's been a while. (If this is the wrong forum, please let me know which is the right one for this sort of discussion).

I know that 3E messed with the cosmology by sticking the astral plane everywhere, and then made everything with the [teleportation] descriptor astral-dependent. Well, like the 3E Planescape Campaign Setting, I don't hold with that change.

The problem is, I'm trying to figure out the easiest way to make a ruling about how different spells work, and I need to know how it worked pre-3E to do that.

Specifically, did teleport work on planes without astral connections? (Ethereal, Inner)

Where did plane shift work or not work?

If teleport had no connection to the astral plane--not even by indirect coincidence--in previous versions, I'd probably just say that spells with the teleportation descriptor don't require access to the astral plane.

If, on the other hand, teleport didn't work on the Inner Planes, but plane shift did, then I might consider just removing the teleportation descriptor from spells that don't require astral connections.

If neither of them worked on the Inner Planes before...well then we just use the re-claimed cosmology and make travel to the Inner Planes a bit more challenging.

Summoning spells are also something to know about.

I'd appreciate any help from knowledgeable folks. Thanks!

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Thu, 2009-12-17 08:04
#2
Hyena of Ice
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

Lemee see....

Well, in the Planescape Campaign Setting book, the Astral dependent spells are the dead-raising spells, the spells with 'astral' in the name, plus divination, duo-dimension, find familiar, identify, and speak with dead.

Ethereal-dependent spells basically encompass the entire Shadow subschool, spells with "ethereal" in the name, any spell that summons an elemental-type creature, energy drain, estate transference, Khazid's procurement, Leomund's Secret Chest, major & minor creation, negative plane protection, reflecting pool, restoration, and vanish.

There are also a few spells that can be astral or ethereal.

I don't recall how blink is described in the PHB, but in the Planescape setting, it's not considered Astral or Ethereal.

Thu, 2009-12-17 22:09
#3
Sword of Spirit
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

Thanks! Brainstorming now in progress.

Fri, 2011-02-04 07:45
#4
GMJoe
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

I've been a bit confused by Plane Shift for a while, actually. Can it be used to go to from any plane to any other plane in one casting? Or must one 'step' from one plane to the next adjacent? For example, to get from the Plane of Air to the Outlands, is it necessary to Plane shift first to the Etherial, then to the Prime Material, then to the Astral, and finally to the Outlands? Or can a spellcaster just make a single hop? I can see advantages and disadvantages for both options.

Fri, 2011-02-04 07:45
#5
GMJoe
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

I've been a bit confused by Plane Shift for a while, actually. Can it be used to go to from any plane to any other plane in one casting? Or must one 'step' from one plane to the next adjacent? For example, to get from the Plane of Air to the Outlands, is it necessary to Plane shift first to the Etherial, then to the Prime Material, then to the Astral, and finally to the Outlands? Or can a spellcaster just make a single hop? I can see advantages and disadvantages for both options.

Sat, 2011-02-05 03:10
#6
Hyena of Ice
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

This is a list of the spells by 2E association *I'll only bother with ones that appeared in 3x*:

ASTRAL
Divination
Identify
Raise Dead
Reincarnation
Resurrection
Speak With Dead
Summon Monster Spells (involving Outer Planar or Astral creatures)

ETHEREAL
any spell with the "Shadow" descriptor
Elemental Swarm
Energy Drain (negative energy spell)
Major Creation
Minor Creation
Negative/Positive Energy Protection
Reflecting Pool
Restoration (positive energy spell)
Summon Monster/Nature's Ally Spells (involving ethereal, shadow, ethereal demiplane, and inner planar creatures)

BOTH
Augury
Commune
Contact Other Plane
Dismissal
Drawmij's Instant Summons
Sanctify/Defile
Vision

Sat, 2011-02-05 06:52
#7
Jem
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

Heh... the title of this thread made me think it might be a question about old, primitive versions of teleport and plane shift that didn't work as well until people hammered the bugs out. Maybe the range limit on teleport has been slowly increasing through the centuries. GMJoe, plane shift can go from any plane to any other, as long as you have the expensive focus required for your target plane (which, for little-known planes, could be a way to limit travel there at least until the PCs have gone once or twice).

It might be interesting if the spell used to be limited to adjacent planes, so that people had to go by steps. Another possibility is that old plane shift spells sent you to a specific point, and trade towns built up around them, like airports, until people figured out how to make a plane shift send you where you wanted to go.

Of course, it's a trope of the setting that ancient magic was more powerful, not less -- so old teleport spells might have sent you further with more accuracy, or plane shifts might have not required the focus!

Mon, 2011-02-07 04:45
#8
GMJoe
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

Thanks for combobulating me, Jem, I needed it. I came to D&D when 3.5 was coming in and only discovered Planescape later, so when I read about the concept of Intermediate Planes connecting the various groups of cardinal planes one-step Plane Shifting started to sound plausible.
Hmm, so I guess a spellcaster who wants to Plane Shift on a budget should get foci attuned to the Astral and Etherial planes and rely on colour pools and curtains to get to his or her destination.

Come to think of it, can one Shadowalk in or out of Sigil? It seems very unlikely to be the case, of course, but from what I've read of the PSC3E the Plane of Shadow should be available for the purpose.

Mon, 2011-02-07 07:26
#9
Hyena of Ice
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

Hmm, so I guess a spellcaster who wants to Plane Shift on a budget should get foci attuned to the Astral and Etherial planes and rely on colour pools and curtains to get to his or her destination.
Not really. In Planescape it can take several game-time months to reach your destination via the Astral or Ethereal.

Come to think of it, can one Shadowalk in or out of Sigil?
NO. Teleportation of any type does not work in Sigil, and it cannot be teleported to. You have to use a Portal. PS3E might have utilized some rules to allow for shadow-magic/etc. users to utilize their powers in Sigil, but teleportation (such as Shadowwalk) is still not possible.

Mon, 2011-02-07 08:21
#10
Jem
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

As Hyena says, travel on the Astral and Ethereal can take a long time. However, historically, I've thought that this might have made a good "first step" for spellcasters who were investigating how to move between planes by spell. If you have never been to an Outer Plane, how would you have known what material and form the plane shift focus might take? And if the material required is native to that plane, how would you get it?

But let's say, hypothetically, that the plane shift key for shifting to other Primes is a common metal, say plain iron, and the only difference is in how the fork is shaped. Say that the focuses for the Astral are very similar: thunderbolt iron for the Ethereal, and meteor iron for the Astral. These are rare, but available on the Prime. In the first years of primitive interplanar travel, spellcasters could make their way to the Astral and Ethereal, and explore paths for others to follow. Eventually, once people had established enough of a presence on an Outer or Inner Plane to learn its magical characteristics, it would be possible to develop the focus required to plane shift there directly.

Of course, there are other ways to get this done; summoning extraplanar entities that answer your questions on what focus is required to get somewhere, for one. But the thunderbolt iron/meteor iron route lets humans figure it out on their own.

Fri, 2011-02-11 11:57
#11
GMJoe
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

Astral travel takes several months? I guess I shouldn't have trusted the line in the 3.5 DMG that says 1d4*10 hours to find a pool to a specific plane. Must be a case of edition-to-edition simplification... Is there some kind of table of plausible astral travel times in the 3.0/3.5 PSCS?

Personally, I never really thought of shadowwalk as teleportation, what with it being an Illusion spell and relying on your feet for locomotion. But you're right, in retrospect it doesn't make much sense that Her Serenity would leave a paraplane-sized back door to her city unlocked. I should probably spend more time thinking these things through.

Come to think of it, the shadowwalk restriction suggests that access to other paraplanes might be similarly limited in Sigil. There's probably a fair few plothooks in that.

Fri, 2011-02-11 12:23
#12
Bob the Efreet
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

It's not that any specific planar access is restricted in Sigil. Travel is restricted. You can do anything you like that doesn't involve entering or exiting the city except by the Lady's portals.

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Fri, 2011-02-11 16:30
#13
Hyena of Ice
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

Astral travel takes several months? I guess I shouldn't have trusted the line in the 3.5 DMG that says 1d4*10 hours to find a pool to a specific plane. Must be a case of edition-to-edition simplification... Is there some kind of table of plausible astral travel times in the 3.0/3.5 PSCS?

A lot of stuff was made easier in 3x, including the removal of the Deep Ethereal (meaning no more using the Ethereal for planar travel, and now the Astral is coterminous with all planes) The rules in 2E Planescape were a LOT harder and more tedious.

Sun, 2011-02-13 14:14
#14
Idran
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Re: Teleportation and plane shift through the ages (versions)

Hyena of Ice wrote:
A lot of stuff was made easier in 3x, including the removal of the Deep Ethereal (meaning no more using the Ethereal for planar travel, and now the Astral is coterminous with all planes) The rules in 2E Planescape were a LOT harder and more tedious.

You can use the Ethereal to planar travel in 3.x just fine. That's what ethereal curtains are for, they're the Ethereal equivalent of color pools. It might not be coterminous with planes besides the Material in 3.x, but it's still good for planar travel.

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