Spire's Shadow (OOC)

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Oberoni_Fallacy's picture
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'Azriael' wrote:
Hmmm, If you were really convincing you might be able to convince your companions to carry chains too - some awesome flanking abilities there. Chuck in a level or two of "master of the unseen hand" at some point and you could really have some fun!

Master of the Unseen Hand wouldn't give any mechanical benefit to a Kyton, unfortunately. It's benefits apply only to Telekenisis - whether via a Ring, Spell-like Ability, or casted Spell, it has to be the actual spell (not a similar effect). Not that it isn't cool (one of my favorite PRCs, even if I never have been able to give it much use) - but wouldn't work in this situation.

In any case, I'd really rather not have to deal with the mechanical problems of the Dancing Chains ability. It's not very clearly spelled out (a relic of 2nd Edition). If you're deadset on playing a Kyton, the best idea I can see would be to work with Duckluck to create a version of the ability we can all agree on (and importantly, all are willing to work with).

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Master of the Unseen Hand wouldn't give any mechanical benefit to a Kyton, unfortunately. It's benefits apply only to Telekenisis - whether via a Ring, Spell-like Ability, or casted Spell, it has to be the actual spell (not a similar effect). Not that it isn't cool (one of my favorite PRCs, even if I never have been able to give it much use) - but wouldn't work in this situation.
Very true, I was meaning the ability to wield other weapons at range as well as his chains/ disarming an opponant with some chains them hitting them with their own weapon but you're right- the investment in levels could probably be better spent. If it's just the chain abilities that Perro's interested in why doesn't he just save up for the Kyton armour from “Savage Species”? I know this isn’t ideal but it’d solve a lot of the other issues we’re running into here.

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Well, I have to agree with OF's comments about the dancing chains mechanics -(and likewise the undesirable ECL 14 for the kyton).

I am a little sad to hear all this good discussion (which has been bouncing back and forth for some time), but relatively little input from Perro (since we really have little to go off of what he is looking for in his character -mechanics and flavor).

Regardless -I'd suggest either just going with Tiefling -then as Azriael said, seek to buy the Kyton armor ASAP, and/or see if Duckluck will allow you to take some levels in the Master of Chains PrC from Sword and Fist (perhaps, or perhaps not with some adjustment to convert it from 3.0 to 3.5).

Otherwise, I'll spit out this alternative:

Here is my own tinkering on a Half-Kyton -as a template itself (I break from the nominal half-fiend template rules, since they have some areas that get stretched too far considering the relatively non-typical fiend base).

*This is familiar but with some changes to the one posted before.

HALF-KYTON

Size and Type: The creature's type changes to outsider. Do not recalculate Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged. Half-kytons are normally native outsiders.

Speed: A half-kyton gains a climb speed equal to half its base speed (or the normal speed of the base creature if it already possesses a climb speed, whichever is faster) but this movement only applies to climbing chains.

*This doesn't significantly add or detract from the LA, so could be done away with if problematic.

Armor Class: Natural armor improves by +2 (this stacks with any natural armor bonus the base creature has).

Special Attacks: A half-kyton retains all the special attacks of the base creature.

*Smite Good doesn't make much sense for a half-kyton -Kytons have no such ability nor have any SLA that is even alignment dependant.

Spell-Like Abilities: A half-kyton with an Intelligence or Wisdom score of 8 or higher has spell-like abilities depending on its Hit Dice, as indicated on the table below. The abilities are cumulative; a half-kyton with 4 HD can use darkness as well as desecrate. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Caster level equals the creature's HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.

HD Abilities
1-2 Doom 3/day
3-4 Cause Fear
5-6 Crushing Despair 3/day
7-8 Animate Objects 3/day (chains only)
9-10 Wall of Chains
11-12 Phantasmal Killer
13-14 Regenerate 3/day (self only), unhallow
15-16 Flensing
17-18 Summon monster IX (chain devils only)
19-20 Destruction

*This is perhaps the most flexible area -an alternative could instead simply grant Crushing Despair and Animate Objects (chains only) as SLA for X/day as CL as HD instead and forego all the rest.

Special Qualities: A half-kyton has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities.
-Darkvision out to 60 feet.
-Resistance to cold 10.
-Damage Reduction: 5/silver or good
-A half-kyton's natural weapons, as well as any weapon it wields, are treated as evil-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
-Spell resistance equal to the creature's HD + 10 (maximum 35).

*note, that poison immunity has been taken away, since it seems stupid to give such to them since kytons have no such invulnerability. Also, they only have resistance to one element, instead of several as most half-fiends and fiends do (but is in line with kytons). Also, higher HD DR was scraped from the typical half-fiend build since a full-blooded chain devil only has 5 DR/silver or good.

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2, Int -2.

*This is one of the biggest changes (like other "half-X", a half-kyton should not have better racial modifiers than the full blooded kyton -this changes and balances it out, but also increases playability of race)

Skills: A half-kyton gains skill points as an outsider and has skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier) x (HD + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation -- the half-kyton gains outsider skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature's list as class skills, as well as Climb, Craft (blacksmithing), Escape Artist, Intimidate, Listen, Spot, and Use Rope. All other skills are treated as cross-class.

Alignment: Always evil (any). *this one would be mitigated due to your house rule.

Level Adjustment: +2

*With several SA's and SQ's deleted, and the ability modifiers more than cut in half, I think this is justified -only real sticking point might be the SLAs. Also, he could then pay off the LA and be a romping 5th level Incarnate still

As Duckluck asked, I'm just trying to throw one out for the crowd (since the sooner Perro gets done, we can begin).

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Sure, you can go that fashion.

It's much better than the other template - I just find the SLAs wacky, since a Kyton has no SLAs whatsoever (but a fun Dancing Chains ability).

Here's another alternative.

Half-Kyton

Natural Armor +2 (Ex)

Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2

DR 5/ Silver or Good

SR 11+HD (There's a reason for the 11 rather than 10. Trust me.)

Chain Mastery (Ex) -
A Half-Kyton may treat any chains he possesses as Spiked Chains for the purposes of weapon attacks. In addition, he may wield a Spiked Chain in one hand and may Two-Weapon Fight with Chains as though they were Light Weapons. If he does so, his off-hand Chain is treated as a Light Weapon for all forms and purposes, including Weapon Finesse, STR/Damage, and Power Attack.

LA+2

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alive!

Hi All
Just to mention that i am still alive and waiting for the game
And on a " now for something completely different" kind of mood just to add a few innane coments on OF's choice of name and bad jokes:

Baba Smith also translates into Granny Smith...a reference to the apple or a mix of Pratchett's characters Granny Weatherwax and Esk Smith from equal rites?? Coincidence?!...I think not!!

Finally I think the most obvious way to make a half kyton is to use the tiefling, but OF's proposition also looks to be simple enough...go perro go!!

Cheers all,

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Yeah, I'd just go with the Tiefer, but you can use Dialexis' new template or OF's template for a Munch point if you are so inclined. You can do it Perro! Oh, and the game will be begining soon, very soon.

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There! I used the kyton levels from the planar hand book!

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Wha? Did you missread what I said? It's a terrible class, and a worse race. As far as I'm concerned, it's not even an option anymore. For all the flak I gave Dialexis for playing a Monk, this is ten times worse. Your character is CR 3 before Munch points. I'm sorry, but the Kyton monster class, despite it being ostensibly for players, is really only even usable by DMs. Between the power level wierdness, and the bizzare nature of the Dancing Chains abillity, I'm going to have to say no.

If you must play a Kyton/Half-Kyton, you have a few options. You can use Dialexis' template (the new one, anyway), OF's alternate template, which I'd prefer just for simplicity's sake, only take the first two levels of the Kyton monster class (I don't like this much, but if you must play a Kyton...), or simply play a Tiefling and buy Kyton Armor (it's in Savage Species.

Playing a class that is so terrible that your CR is less than half that of your fellows is not an option.

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Normally, I don't double post, but this is important.

There seems to be something up with Sylnae.net. I don't know what the deal is, but I'm worried. Four of you have created sheets using Sylnae, so here's my advice, Make a hard copy! Your sheets may not be there much longer.

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Thanks for the heads-up Duckluck.
Kadar now lives at-

http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1101

The transfer is pretty painless - you just download your character to a .xml file then upload it onto the tangled web, the layout of the sites are almost identical.

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"We're making a better world. All of them, better worlds." - Anonomous Harmonium Officer

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http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1265

Gotcha. Yeah this site seems to nearly be a ripoff of Sylnae, what gives?

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Ah, thanks Duckluck for the heads up (and Azriael for the tip on the other site).

I'm having some trouble now with downloading my character profile. I'll try again in an hour or so. If it doesn't work, well then, it should still be ok -I downloaded a saved copy/file on my home computer -hopefully, I should be able to upload it from there (though I won't be able to access that computer till tommorrow).

Otherwise...

I am very excited to hear we will be starting soon.

Perro -hope you get something done soon that Duckluck can ok.

JOR, OF, Azriael, and Korchuk -glad to here we're all ready to go (essentially).

Oh, and nice one about the apple comment too.

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'Korchuk' wrote:
Gotcha. Yeah this site seems to nearly be a ripoff of Sylnae, what gives?

Wrong. They're all ripoffs of 3eprofiler. Have you ever read the description of the tool on Sylnae/Tangled Web?

It's called 3eprofiler. 3eprofiler - as in 3eprofiler.net. You see, 3eprofiler.net hosted this service until 2005, at which point they made it open-source and shut down the site (the hosting costs were just getting too absurd). When it shut down, 3eprofiler was on Version 3.

Luckily for us, however, 3eprofiler.net is going to re-open. They're testing version 4.0 over on Myth-Weavers.com, (where Baba is hosted). It's got a lot of fun features, such as historical versions of your character sheet (so you can roll back changes you've made).

Check it out.

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Hey there everybody!

I was able to upload my character profile -so I'm good to go. (I think that makes all of us -except for Perro).

Duckluck -any foreseeable start?

Oh, I almost forget -here is Linji's site:

http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1805[url]

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Hey there everybody!

I was able to upload my character profile -so I'm good to go. (I think that makes all of us -except for Perro).

Duckluck -any foreseeable start?

Oh, I almost forgot -here is Linji's site:

http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1805[url]

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Hi,
Here is m'rek's new home:

http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1323

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OH! I'm so sorry I REALLY misread that I'll use the two levels idea and take class levels for two more that should be alright correct?

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'Dialexis' wrote:
Duckluck -any foreseeable start?/url]

I'm working on it, but I've recently caught a bit of a cold, so I'm rather out of sorts. Once we get Perro squared away, I'll be happy to start.

Korchuk, I don't need you character's life story, but you need to give me something. Get to work.

Perro, the option you chose is quite weak, but viable. However, you should have three class levels in a real class rather than two (because we're starting level 5). Oh, and this means I have to figure out how the Dancing Chains ability is actually going to work.

Because of how weak you are, and because this seems to be the mode of function implied by the old ability, I have decided that the chain you animate via Dancing Chains will provide one extra attack at your full Base Attack Bonus. You may not, however, apply your strength (or Dex if you have weapon finesse) bonus to attack or damage.

OF, I want you to post a real profile, so I can have it on record, and your fellows will know more about your character.

Now then, hop to it.

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Duckluck,

Sorry you have the sniffles, and hope you feel better soon -no rush (actually, I am rushing us a bit, honestly!)

(I'll be sending a pm here shortly to you -just a few little background questions relative to Linji -nothing big or a game stopper, so take your time -though, it would be nice to have some of them answered before we start actually playing.)

And good luck to all the rest in getting done!

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I realized it was fairly weak but I always enjoy the challenage of something such as that Smiling

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Right, well, good luck with that. I want you to update your Character Sheet forthright. I'd really like to start the game, already.

Oh, and I seem to be getting over my cold. Thanks for the well wishes.

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-- Cortek, Part 2

Cortek's first and only battle on the lost layer found him involved in a simple but effective pincer attack strategy. Unfortunately, they had been out-stealthed and out manuevered by large squads of Modron duodrones, tridrones, led by their quadrone captains and lieutenants. It wasn't long before the Harmonium flanks had to merge, and we're played into the center of the surrounding Modron forces.

However, a hole was curiously left open in the Modron formation as they closed, for a purpose. Cortek, a pure military student, knew that a common tactic in surrounding enemies is to disincline the flanked enemy force from fighting desperately, by leaving what appears to be an exit. In the small window before they were fully surrounded, he grabbed the attention of Hakkon and as many others as he could without being too obvious, and made a dash to this narrowing hole. Few followed Cortek, probably due to how quiet he was in gathering people, and as such, the Modrons saw it an ill use of their advancing forces to interrupt the plan for a few stragglers.

Hakkon managed to lead those who followed Cortek, who numbered less than 20, to a small relatively Modron free area, and rest for the "night," while they hoped their comrades would see the exit and find a way to break partially through. Meanwhile, Cortek remained on the outskirts of the battle observing the Modron "artwork." Their methods entirely outclassed the Harmonium warband, they held the surrounding formation for only an hour or so, quickly breaking off and having various squads retreat upon receiving the attention of the Harmonium force, only to turn back to their enemies when they fell under the radar yet again.

After several hours, the Modrons appeared to retreat entirely, with a substantial amount of Harmonium troops remaining, but heavily fatigued and with masses of wounded. A few soldiers from Hakkon's camp who'd come out to see how it was faring actually rejoined their comrades, but Cortek didn't feel so safe yet. Sure enough, the entire Modron force, relatively unscathed and anything but tired returned to clean up the mess. This time there was no hole: desperation is much less effective when you're tired, the adrenaline is gone, and you've spent the whole day bleeding. Cortek didn't bother watching the rest.

Most of the survivors who'd camped with Hakkon we're in mourning for their comrades, but Cortek saw little point in this: he didn't even think it was deserved. Military Ineptitude brought their death, and they were fighting "righteous" creatures, the flawless order of the Modrons. Having no desire to kill Modrons, or follow the inept leaders that failed to see the value in even attempting a retreat, Cortek elected to desert the Harmonium.

After explaining his viewpoint, all but a handful were willing to join Cortek in a "march for a new purpose." The remaining handful had to be killed: they wouldn't let deserters off without a fight. Their travels across a handful of planes eventually landed them on Acheron, a plane with no satiable need for military men. Seeking new lives in battle and attempting to find self-perfection, both in their blade and their tactics, it was a curious choice of respite for desertering survivors of a failed camapaign.

Cortek picked up the Orc and Goblin tongues between raging battles, and picked up the uncivilized fighting styles of the goblinoid residents of Acheron, though keeping his Longsword, with which he was so familiar, and his Tower Shield. Hakkon, no longer a Paladin by any standard, took to the Clerical reverance of the concepts of Healing and War. Time passed and Cortek grew into an uncommon feeling for Zenythri: curiosity. He wondered what his new knowledge of war, learned on the plane of battles itself, could do on other planes. Though holding no animosity toward the Modrons, he wondered if he could defeat their strategies now, having rolled over them in his head every day since he deserted his father's faction.

Bidding his companions, including Hakkon, what he assured was a temporary farewell, he set out on a journey to find battles on planes unaccustomed to them. Acheron is as real as anything else on the planes, but nothing could overcome the idea in his head: that to fight all battles on "islands" of perfect metal cubes against largely goblinoid forces was only training excerise for what the battles raging across the rest of the multiverse were like. His quest isn't to find jobs for money, or to avenge anyone, or to find a new faction to devote his small portion of belief to, but to find a greater knowledge of tactics and war, through allying with as wide a variety of companions as possible, and against as wide a variety of enemies as possible, on as many different fields for as many different reasons as he can. He wants to match the Modron war machine, the epitome of Logic and Strategy.

--End Part 2

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Very nice. In your PM, you mentioned you were looking for a skill/ability that fit your character's strategist bent. I didn't have any particularly good answers, so I'm openning it up to the players.

Players, what are good abillities (feats in particular) for a character who wants to play a strategist? Also, why do I feel like I've read at least a dozen abilities that would be perfect for Cortek and have just forgotten them?

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All right, I'm sick of waiting. I'm starting the game. I'll write perro in when he finishes his character sheet. An In Character post should come soon, and I'll link you to it. There you go.

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Quote:
Players, what are good abillities (feats in particular) for a character who wants to play a strategist? Also, why do I feel like I've read at least a dozen abilities that would be perfect for Cortek and have just forgotten them?

I had figured other people would jump on it, but I guess not. Anyways, my suggestions are not only the Combat Focus Feats (if he has the Will prereq), and/or the Tactical Feats from PHB II and HoB). Of course, there are also some great new fighter feats in the PHB II, as well as an older feat -Combat Intiution (Complete Adventuer?).

Quote:
All right, I'm sick of waiting. I'm starting the game. I'll write perro in when he finishes his character sheet. An In Character post should come soon, and I'll link you to it. There you go.

That sounds GREAT! I was honestly really sick of waiting for just one person while the rest of the group has basically been done for a while, but was trying to be patient and follow you lead.

Are all you other guys still out there? (Haven't seen any posters in a couple of days). Oh, and by the way, Korchuk, I really applaud your second half of Cortek's background -good job!

Duckluck, I am ready to go whenever you are (but to let you know, I am making a last minute change in Linji's second level bonus feat since we haven't started, I don't see why this would be a problem, but let me know if it is).

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No problem. For the record, you won't be going into real combat (as opposed to stuff you're supposed to run away from, which there will be plenty of) for another couple of days, at least, so I'll let you have a few more days to make any minor last minute changes. When this grace period expires, I'll let you know.

Without further ado (even though I do enjoy a good ado once in a while), here is the ultimate, official, and super great Spire's Shadow in character game! Post now, post frequently, and post like you mean it.

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Perro, your new character sheet looks all right, but, um, what class are you. Fighter? Your skills are wonky (you have 6 ranks in a cross class skill, for instance). And you HP can't possibly be that high. If you're a fighter, Im pretty sure your HP should only be 37. Fix that stuff, and I'll write you on in.

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Yeah, I sure would be happy if Perro can join (I really do like the concept I think he is going for), but the profile is obscure and has some seemingly gross errors.

I'll let you guys hammer it out, and then if I see any left, I'll send up a helpful flag.

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Sorry been incredibly busy at the moment and have'nt had much time online. Top it off my computers gotta have some work done to it should have it back by sat.

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We all get busy. It's no problem. I'll just hold off writing you in.

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Crap, I'm late.

In any case, I have a bad excuse. It involves a $3000 HDTV, a PS3 and four controllers, a XBOX 360, a lot of people smoking a lot of marijuna, and the Wii.*

*The best next-gen system. By far.

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Duckluck, can I convert one of my munch points into a str point now? I realise that I should have done this in character creation but I'm beginning to see how annoying my low carrying capacity is going to be.

__________________

"We're making a better world. All of them, better worlds." - Anonomous Harmonium Officer

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Damn it OF, I don't care how rich you are, you should stay away from that shit. It's toxic over-priced, and just a bad idea. Honestly, who would buy a PS3? Pot's bad too.

Kadar,
You can spend Munchers any time you want, but I have to ask, isn't that what the Bag of Holding is for?

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Quote:
You can spend Munchers any time you want, but I have to ask, isn't that what the Bag of Holding is for?
Yeah but I realised that my margin is so small that I can't pull anything substantial out of it/pick anything up to put into it without becoming encumbered.

__________________

"We're making a better world. All of them, better worlds." - Anonomous Harmonium Officer

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I don't own a PS3, and I don't smoke pot. However, I hang out with people who do, DL.

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I know, I was just trying to make a bad joke.

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Oh, it's not like the PS3 is *that* bad.

I mean, you can browse the internet on it.

The sad part about it is that the three top things typed in the search/address bar (there's autocomplete), were Google, Porn, and Yahoo - in that order.

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Hey guys, sorry I didn't post much today, I had the busiest day I've had in weeks, and now I'm exhausted. Tomorrow is Thanksgiving here in the, or as los mexicanos call it, "Dia de Accion de Gracias." It sounds better in english. At any rate, I'm going to be pretty busy all day. I might be on late at night, but don't count on me to really post again until Friday.

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Bio is up.

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Very nice, now was that so hard?

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Yes, it was.

Also, I've seen Bond - James Bond. Casino Royale was great. It involved explosions and actually had good writing.

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My internet is giving me problems. I'm actually posting this from OF's house, so expect my posting to be erratic at best and non-present at worst for the next few days. Sorry.

Edit: It actually is working fine now. I think Cox finally fixed the problem.

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Perro, I got your PM. Let me do my final inspection before I write you in though.

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Perro, where did you find the "coutier's obi," Suiseen leather, twighlight lanterns, and gate compases? Also, how much did evertying cost, and how much money do you have left?

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Spire's Shadow (OOC)

Is Korchuk still around? haven't seen any post's from him in the past few days.
I don't want to be rude but if he doesn't post soon (another day or so) could Duckluck play his character as an NPC until he comes back?

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Dialexis's picture
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Joined: 2006-07-21
Spire's Shadow (OOC)

I have to concur with Azriael: I don't want to snub anyone (and really enjoyed playing with Cortek/Korchuck), but it would be an even greater travesty to let the whole campaign deadpan.

I sent a pm to Korchuck two days ago to check in and see what was up -but I did not and still have not recieved a reply.

Like Azriael said, could we somehow just have Cortek NPC'd (hopefully Korchuck will return, but if not... )

Duckluck's picture
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Joined: 2006-10-10
Spire's Shadow (OOC)

The plot will advance once more. Don't you worry. Basically, don't speak directly to Korchuk for a while, and when he comes back, he can post his actions accordingly. If the need arises, I will go ahead and write him out of the story, for a little while, anyway. In the future, I won't make you wait this long. I promise.

Dialexis's picture
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Joined: 2006-07-21
Spire's Shadow (OOC)

Thank you, O great DM! Hurrah!

Duckluck's picture
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Joined: 2006-10-10
Spire's Shadow (OOC)

Perro dropped out. Apparently real life got in the way. I still haven't heard from Korchuk. I'm going to PM him right now.

Azriael's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-07
Spire's Shadow (OOC)

With one (possibly two) character's dropping out have we left any dangerous gaps in the party?

About now seems to be the final boarding call for characters to enter the party before the the party solidifies. I really like Kadar but his skill-set is covered by other characters and he's as yet untouched enough for me to happily use him in another campaign.

So, if there are any important gaps that people can see speak now or forever hold your peace. I've got a bunch of character concepts which I'd be willing to submit to Duckluck for his approval should this prove necessary.

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