Some Random THoughts

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Dark_Reaction024's picture
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Some Random THoughts

Hey, Im new here, but like what Im seeing so far.

Some random thoughts:

Mind Flayers of Thoon

Over the last 200 years, and with the advent of new and improved technologys, the Mind Flayers of Thoon have been able to make contact with the Far Realm via "Gates". As one would expect, the result of being exposed to the emissions of such a gate are devastatingly bizzare- twisting mutations are not uncommon, and madness is almost always a side effect.

However, ther knowledge they have managed to shamble together is powerful at the very least. Any number of horrors have been sent forth from their hovels; powerful constructs foremost among them.

It is, infact, using these technological beings that the Thoonians have attempted to explore the dark void of the Far Realm. Using a combination of current technology and exploratory techniques, combined with magical and bio-technological additions, the Thoonians have found a way to create non-living 'shells' to explore the maddening darkness beyond, without themselves having to spend large periods of time in the bleak beyond. The creatures, items, substances and even ideas/thoughts/theories that they have managed to cull have revolutionized quite abit in a number of fields; from medicinal, to industrial, to military.

(Consider this a throw back to our current attempts at exploring the vast deep sea oceans.)

Because of this, these bizzare and truly terrible creatures have earned some level of acceptance in the overall scheme- its very hard to hate someone thats saved your back berk, even if the slimy bastard is willing to suck your brains out.

The Fel Crawlers that are known to prowl the Plain of Infinite Portals on the Abyss are just one of the horrors that the Thoonians have poured out of their horrid laboritories and research facilitys- still in the developemental stages, the Fel Crawlers have been released in small groups for testing; which thus far has lead to the belief among the Thoonians that profits will be high indeed.

They have also learned new techniques to heavily modify Stormclouds of Thoon with bio-technology and even more powerful magics from the Far Realm and the Multiverse at large. These beings, outfitted with high power communcations systems, are sent forth into the Far Realm on far-ranging missions of exploration, recovery and destruction.

Another (rather foul) established custom is espionage. The Thoonians have become well-known for their possession of Infiltrators. Since their inception (the original nautiloid crew that crossed into the Far Realm) most of the Infiltrators have died off (either killed by adventurers or had their parasites removed surgically), but there are STILL a few of the original crew said to walk in the company of the eldest of Thoonian Illithids- at fist, the actual life expectancy of Thoon Infiltrators was unknown, but it has now come to be understood that Far-Realm Parasites extend the host's life expectancy to far beyond that of the average Mind Flayer. Infact, there is even a rather large cult following of humanoids and others of the like that actually WANT to be overtaken by the parasites; believing it a way to TRULY connect to Thoon. (A large number of Sigil's Madhouse-inhabitants, a few notable Bleakers amongst them, have sought out and undertaken the life of an Infiltrator) These ageless and undying horrors make wonderful spies and assassins, especially if used to systematically replace a target's loved ones/underlings (see below).

The main focus of the Thoon's resources and effort in the last 2 centuries has been the acquisition and hoarding of quintessence. Some claim to have seen vast fields where illithid-esque horrors are not made, but grown; using quinetessence itself as the substrate. However, most of these witnesses are insane beyond description, so their jibbering and howling responses can hardly be taken as fact.

All the same, strange inklings have poured out that a certain recent event (well, recent in the big picture of things) was at least in part to do with the Thoonians, and tales of those fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to survive the Research Centers claim to have seen terrors beyond reason, glittering black metal nightmares from the Far Realm, dragging the mortal mind down into unending insanity...

The Capture/Corruption of Bahamut

Little more than 10 years ago, a great and horrible tragedy befelled the good dragons of the Multiverse.

In an act most perverse and obscene, an unknown and untrace-able force (satelite imaging over Celestia short circuited miraculously, and no divination magic seems to be of aid) managed to make its way into the first and lowest layer of Celestia, Lunia, and crossed the shallow Silver Sea. Here, they somehow managed to overtake the aged wizard Mahlevik and from this location staged a truly epic undertaking- the capture and kidnapping of the Platinum Dragon himself, Bahamut.

The act was violent to say the least, sending Bahamut's Palace, in all its shining glory, crashing down into the sea. The resulting crash (and the numerous magics that were unleashed in its occurence) are said to have blown a "hole" in Celestia itself- evil has begun to funnel its way into the Plane of Good, using the torment and pain of the captured dragon-god, his disciples and the miriade of thieves who had died attempting to steal the Platinum Lord's wealth, to solidify its footing in this now-acursed place. The entire area was immediately quarantined by the Celestial Government, and immediately surrounded by (unusually) hostile guards. Whether these guards are meant to keep outsiders from going in, or somethin else from coming out, is still the dark of the day in many circles.

Beyond the destroyed Palace, there were few signs that something had even occured (at least, beyond the thousands of good-aligned dragons from across the Multiverse that made their way shortly after to hold a vigil in hopes of their 'God's' return. Little hope was had, especially after the divine powers of those who worshipped the Platinum Dragon seemed to dull, and finally disappear, never to return.)

Supposedly, a massive oil slick lead from the site of the battle to a portal whose destination was at first unknown. Following further investigation of the magical energys left in the area, Celestian officials claim the portal (no longer functioning) lead directly to Uranos, on the Radioactive Wastelands of Hades. A track (appearing as one would expect the imprint of tank treads to leave and generally the size of the oil slick in the Silver Sea) was found leading off into the wastes, but none could be found fool hardy enough to brave the boiling seas and acidic rain that plague this horrid landscape.

Representatives from the Khin-Oin Biological Facility were nearly unresponsive to Celestian inquiries (beyond the occasional claw shown in one derrogatory gesture or another).

For 6 months, the great dragon was missing. The good dragons of the Multiverse, in a feat of cooperation seldom seen from their kind, put aside all else and set out to find their Platinum 'God'. Still, no sign was found; not even a meager clue.

Then, in an event of complete surprise to almost every denizen of the Planes, the Platinum Lord reappeared- on Avernus. And he was no longer Platinum- the once silvery scales of the 'Good' dragon God had been faded and corrupted, turning a deep purplish color. His eyes though, have taken on a fiery silver sheen, with no pupil to be seen. The Platinum Lord was changed in other ways as well- he now bears 7 claws (6 on each side and a single massive claw coming from the chest), 2 pairs of wings, a massive third eye (located between its normal 2, and even deeper purple in color than the scales) and the spittle from his maw was found to cause horrible mutations in creatures of draconic heritage; twisting their bodies and minds to the limit, then simply breaking them and creating a mad, mishappen terror the likes of which few had ever encountered before.

These creatures have come to be known as Muto-Dragoons and they are fierce and terrible in and of themselves- completely immune to one sort of magic (either divine or arcane) each creature eventually resembles a great wyrm dragon, usually purplish in color, and almost always bearing some mutation or another- massive tentacles, bizarre eye stalks, more limbs than normal, or protrusion of bone/organs through the skin).

This was the fate of Tiamat's court (see below), and with the aid of these horrendous beasts, Biahmat (as the creature called itself) completely destroyed Tiamats former realm and carved out a massive citadel around the gateway to Dis, known as The Damning Grounds (see below) ; enstating a heavy taxation on the surrounding realms and an even heavier taxation on travel through the citadel in one way or another (basically, cutting off the entrance from Avernus to Dis; unless one has the proper funds).

Little else is known of this poor, begotten horror; beyond the fact that all who stand before his countenance dies in absolute horror, their bodies sent back to their home realms in shining platinum coffins and are incapable of being returned to the world of the living. Biahmat remains inside its citadel, never leaving since its arrival not long ago. Biahmat has since taken over leadership of Avernus, at least in the realms his abishai and draconic armies (which have been growing steadily larger in number as time passes) can reach easily.

A least 5 times since its construction, the Damning Grounds have been the target of nuclear assault. No one is truly certain that the Purple-Wyrm even still lives; but the taxation and domination of its forces continues. Few that have entered the sanctum have returned alive, even fewer have returned sane- even the few chromatic dragons brave enough to enter after hearing of the Muto-Dragoons have failed to return, most likely becoming Dragoons themselves.

The Damning Grounds:

"That place.... Ive seen it with my own eyes, I can tell you that much- but nothing more.... From the land to the sky, its the biggest thing I think Ive ever seen- truly a statement to the power of my kind.... But it wasnt the sight of it that bothered me; though the reeking, burned out remains of an entire gold dragon battalion was among the dead before me, and THAT says something.... It was the SOUNDS I could hear.... Terrible sounds- have you ever HEARD a dragon thats lost its mind? Truly, insanity is something even we fear, and in that place its in no short supple...."-Vasthharn'dar, Mature Male Black Dragon, Doomguard Entropy Master

Located on the former site of Tiamat's realm and serving as the Gateway from the 1st to the 2nd level of Baator (Avernus and Dis, respectively), The Daming Grounds serve as the resting place of the creature known as Biahmat (aka, The Great Purple Wyrm, The Bruise, The Battered One, He of the Far Place, Ux-Iegir Thurgix Darastrix [Crippled Platinum-Blooded Dragon]) and also houses its massive armies, siege machines and other nightmarish creations.

From far off, the Damning Grounds appear much like a massive cement bunker. This is a new feature, covering the layers beneath it. At start, the structure was a shambling mound of rubble, metal and rock; scavenged from the remains of Tiamat's realm and the surrounding locales. As time went on (and attempts to destroy the Purple Wyrm increased), the building was built up and strengthened- first with an IMMENSE, cube-shaped iron shell(basically just a massive square) covered in spikes and blades of all sorts. The cube extended more than a mile into the sky, and was said to be nearly 2 miles across [though it may even have been larger, by some accounts]; from atop which 5 blades extended into the sky- 3 of which were short and stubbed, the other 2 jutting into the sky farther than most can see. It is said that a foul undead creature, draconic in nature (some have said it is the mutated remains of Sigil's own Cage Wyrm) wings blindly about the uppermost blades, striking out at any that come in range of its senses.

Next came a layer of, what appeared to be, draconic flesh and hide- where these were culled from is still unclear and it is not confirmed that it even WAS dragon flesh. However, those few that saw it in the short period of its viewability (less than a week's time; amazing speed for such a large structure to be covered) claimed to have seen the material bleeding heavily as it was slapped with force onto the iron spiked shell, usually by some manner of Dragoon. All the same, this was not visible for long.

Next came a thick layer of a cement-abyssal blood iron mixture; which at first made little sense, given the nature of said metal. This layer (over 30 ft. thick) was incredibly dense yet, somehow, it is said that the remains of the dead dragons beneath can act at will- striking out with stony claws and teeth at those attempting to enter the stronghold without allowance; the damage being especially terrible due to the thin veins of bloodiron throughout. The walls seems to bleed from these veins, resulting in a puddle of moist, red dirt surrounding the citadel.

Inside, it is said that the place is merely a massive hollow containing a large mountain; atop which sits the Palacial Quarters of Biahmat itself. From this vantage point, the beast can look down upon its armies, forges, and other mishappen experiments and endeavors; including the small, tightly guarded corridor leading visitors quickly (and with great hostility) towards the Gateway to Dis.

Then again, this is all really speculation, as its very unlikely that anyone/thing that made it through that place would converse with the sort of gossip hawks that bring in this kind of information.

The Capture/Santification of Tiamat

Two days following the events on Celestia involving Bahamat's Palace, the Chromatic Queen too, was assaulted.

None truly know what occurred on this day- for some reason Tiamat herself sent her compatriots, mates, slaves and underlings away. The reasoning behind this was unknown and is still not understood in any real way- speculation abounds, but no real answers are expected to surface ("She certainly isnt talking; I know that from experience."-Editor)

Whatever the case, Tiamat stood before her attacker alone on that day and, miraculously, disappeared shortly after the last of her minions had left her realm. The event was signified by a horrific roar from the Chromatic Queen, followed by (the official report states) 'heavy electromagnetic activity of an unknown nature'.

Unlike her platinum counterpart, the disappearance of the 5-headed queen of evil dragons bore no vigils, no memorials- for all intensive purposes, her 'worshippers' saw her absence as little more than an inconvenience; as the divine power she imparted upon them dulled and dimmed, just as did Bahamut's. Nobody missed the evil dragon mistress, least of all her fellow dragons on Avernus; which began to squabble and bicker over power and ownership of their missing master's possessions (making them all the easier to take whem Biahmat arrived on the scene).

Surprisingly enough, Tiamat too reappeared. As one would expect, she too was changed drastically- her size was drastically reduced (giving her a shrunken, emaciated look), her skin had taken on a light gray coloration, and her eyes had gone completely black ("Believe me, staring into those black orbs is intimidating to say the least."-Editor). Her wings appeared to have been surgically removed, and her black and red heads were also mysteriously missing; her tail having sprouted off 2 additional stingers, giving it a trident-like appearance.

Perhaps most amazing of all was the almost 360 degree shift in mindset that the former demon-dragon showed- no longer was she a hateful, power-hungry monster; but an almost gentle, friendly beast. While this sounds outright hilarious to most, whatever happened to the former chromatic queen severely changed her- both in mind and body. The creature also took to calling itself Tihamut, emphasizing the changes as liberally as possible. This was almost the entirety of Tihamut's spoken words since though, for she seems to have no desire for speech any longer- it is the norm for her to answer long, drawn out questions with nothing more than a 'yes', 'no' or 'perhaps'.

Despite her new outlook however, the Multiverse had no intentions of going easy on the formerly-evil draconic mastermind. Her return, sadly enough, was staged (whether by her own choosing or by that of some unknown force) in Sigil, the City of Doors. The fact that the Lady of Pain allowed her entrance says something in and of itself (though WHAT it says is highly debated).

What IS known though, is that Tihamut immediately 'turned herself in', calling sanctuary upon the doorstep of the City Guard. She was, in turn, sanctioned for quarantine and punishment within the Gatehouse (seems that giant gate finally got a use afterall). Within the week, the trial began.

Drawing the attention of the entire Multiverse, a former evil was set to paid for its crimes. Creatures of almost every race tuned in to Inter-planar holographic projections of the trial, some hoping for the guilty verdict, some (more and more as the trial went on) praying against chance that the jury (an assembly of dragons and draconic creatures; the accused peers afterall) would hold some level of mercy for the former monster.

As one would expect though, Tihamut/Tiamat was found "quilty of uncounted acts of evil throughout the Multiverse at large", which she accepted without a word. Surprisingly though (as most criminals found guilty of such crimes are routinely executed in one fashion or another), the former evil-power was simply banished. Tihamut was sentenced to live out the rest of her miserable existence (however long THAT will be) and, what is more, she is NOT permitted to build any sort of structure; nor does she actually gain ownership of the surrounding lands- this too she accepted without a word (infact, giving a small smile with her white head [the only one she still uses] at the banishment decision).

For any lesser being, this would be a death sentence- but Tihamut is no ordinary being. She still retains mass amounts of power in her new form (including some new, truly epic powers; the likes of which few have borne witness) and this, combined with an apperantly unending will, have kept her alive.

To this day, Tihamut is located in a quarantined, heavily guarded location on Stiflheim, in the Radiated Wastelands of Hades, known as The Iron Grasp (see below). Within this containment area, the (still) huge form of Tihamut wanders meagerly through the misty, poisonous gases, gathering the noxious wood of the dead trees for use in a generator; which in turn powers the containment field that keeps her 'guards' alive in their insulated bunkers.

Tihamut (aka The Grey Queen, 3-Fold-Tragedy, The Despair Wyrm) is (rarely) allowed 'guests'. These range from someone brave (or crazy) enough to brave the wastes in hopes of gaining knowledge from the supposedly mute Grey Queen to the sadistic 'pranks' of the somewhat insane guards who, from time to time, release any number of horrors into the prison of the draconic diety in hopes of ending their long running guardianship, to a VERY few male chromatics who have come on 'congical visits' of sorts (NOTE: Since her return, Tihamut has produced no eggs).

The Iron Grasp

This facility, used to 'house' the banished former-diety Tihamut, is a masterwork of craftsmanship.

Built in the hostile, poisonous realm of Stiflheim (within 100 miles of Ft. Innocence Lost), The Iron Grasp is a rectangular area, approximately 10 miles x 15 miles in dimension. The area is boxed in my 10 ft. thick walls of iron reaching 600 ft. into the air and constantly electrified by a number of harnessed elder lightning elementals housed in a deep, underground bunker. The entire facility is under the influence of an Antimagic Field that cannot be overcome by any means (it is said that the field is actually located in a former Maze created by Sigil's Lady of Pain that connects to Hades and was offered forth for use in this project).

Just outside the facility (and the Antimagic Field) lies the guard's quarters. The guards (most of whom are Sigilian's who have commited some crime, many of which have been tasked with missions such as 'Guard this area for the next 60 years, or until you die.'; and whom themselves rarely recieve visitors- aside from the occasional [every 20 years] tiefling prostitute sent to assuade their urges [and who, once inside the guard's sheltered bunker sanctuaries, is rarely ever heard from again; aside from a scream of horror perhaps]) are just on the clear side of sane, many of them having that faint shimmer of madness just underneath the surface, and readily visible to an outsider making the long, hard trek to The Grasp. It isnt much of a surprise, considering their far removed abode; and the foul nature of the land in which it is located.

To go above ground, the guards are required to put on protective radiation suits (completely black and marked with a grey, 3-toed claw) in order to survive more than a few moments- especially on the nastier days.

To live here safely, even in their underground lead-plated bunkers, a protective magical field is required. This field is powered by an aged generator (long overdue for repairs) that runs, ironically enough, on the noxious wood collected by the Grasps singular inhabitant- Tihamut.

She faithfully returns each day from her roaming within the Grasp to give her (mostly hateful, sadistic and taunting) guards the fuel they require to power the generator. As she no longer requires food or even air it seems to survive, she could easily not come back someday with the horrid wood (likely killing each and every guard currently on duty in the bunkers and above).

The head guard, a half red dragon kobold named Garrix, has had the job since the structures creation and, as all accounts go, is quite possibly the only friendly face the ancient Grey Queen sees on even a remotely regular basis. Garrix has, against the rules of Tihamut's imprisonment, built a small stone shelter in which the ancient power sleeps and takes shelter during the most heinous of weather on the radiated plane.

Barris:

Barris is a small conclave of bunkers dug deep into the the Stiflheim plains. Approximately 2 miles from The Iron Grasp, Barris is home to the largest population of good-aligned chromatic dragons in the Multiverse. They have come here to serve penance in the spirit of Tihamuts utter transformation and, from there ranks, a new PrC has emerged: The Unrivaled Patient of Tihamut

Feel free to comment and what not- these were just kinda random thoughts, figured Id try offering something to the project.

Ulden Throatbane's picture
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Some Random THoughts

Wow, this is very extensive...probably the largest addition to UP in a long time.

I'm impressed. Welcome to the forums too.

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Some Random THoughts

This is a great project, and I really like the ideas put forth so far.

I hope that what I can offer can be used; at least in some manner Smiling

I hope to add more to this, including a possible template for the Tihamut PrC; further details on some of the guards within the Iron Grasp; further details on the Damning Grounds (including defenses, residents, locations, etc.); and a few other things.

A question- I tried to find some info regarding the disappearance of Pandemonium; but have failed thus far. Am I missing something, or has nobody dared to touch that yet?

Kal
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Erm....it was replaced by Erebus (sp?), its linked in the thread of threads. As to the reason why it went poof.....

Kal

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The Kobaldic Republic: Final Adversity(Note: This contains information that may be contradictory to other posts, and will require some alteration over time- input is appreciated)

The Pact was signed in almost utter secrecy within Sigil, bringing together the forces of the Great Wheel in a manner none had before witnessed- at their head, the 'Tiny Dragons'. The Gith, The Dragons, The Tana'ri, The Baatezu, The Celestials, The Slaadi, The Yugoloths, The Mortal Primes- all signed in blood.

This would be it then... the last stand.

Using Sigil as a base of operations, the message was sent out across the Planes: The time has come to forget all else, stand as one in the face that which will conquer all.

And so it was that the various species came together, put aside their timeless battles, and stood side by side on the field of battle. The Illithid Empire was vast and well equipt, a force powerful enough to conquer the Great Wheel itself if given the chance.

The final battle spanned out over the Outer Planes and innumerable Primes simultaneously- the secrecy of the Pact had held, and the Illithid were surprised by this sudden uprising.

On Celestia, Illithid outposts were flooded with holy light as wave after wave of angelic warriors charged into the fray.

In the Abyss and on Baator, combined demonic and devilish forces fought together for the first time since either side could remember; throwing themselves visciously against the Flayers' thrall hordes.

On Carceri, the prison plane opened its iron cells, sending the most horrid of criminal spirits against the brain-eatters; while on Gehenna the Yugoloth armies surged forward in all their terrifying glory.

In Limbo, the Slaadi Lords sent their slave armies and combat squads to war; while Formian Swarms streamed across Mechanus to batter what Illithid strongholds could be found.

On almost every Prime, the mortals fought with blood, sweat and tears; pushing back with strength they didnt realize they had. At the head of this force, the Kobaldic Republican Guard lead the charge into the fiercest of fighting.

Victory seemed to be near, but on one Prime; something went wrong- a consortium of Elder Brains managed to close the Prime; cutting off reinforcements to the battered mortals. As more and more reports of total destruction funneled in, these few 'secure' Illithid made a choice- the ritual would be enacted once again to send them hurtling backwards in time.

Gathering together, the Mind Flayers began to sacrifice some of their most ancient and powerful Elder Brains; drawing together their psionic force in an attempt at the ritual that had saved them once before.

This time, however, things would be different.

Sensing what was about to happen, the Kobaldic Elders made the ultimate sacrifice- spilling their own blood, pulsating with the inherent arcane energy of their race, and using it as a foci in an attempt to counter the Mind Flayer's ritual.

It worked- the Illithid's magics failed, leaving them stranded and much weaker with the loss of many of their Elder Brains.

The Kobolds and their assembled allies erradicated the Mind Flayers and all evidence of their existence in the out-lying Planes/Primes; until only that final bastion remained.

Using technology taken from the remains of the Flayer's citadels and universities, The Pact forces created a vast armada of Spell-Jammer ships. As one they moved in on the Illithid's final Sanctuary; the Mind Flayers finding themselves now trapped by their own magic.

In a truly epic battle, the Pact forces fought their way through the remaining Illithid defenses in orbit; before taking the fight to the surface.

The extermination of the Illithid races was mere moments away..... or was it?

When the Pact forces finally made their way into the sanctuaries on the Prime; they found them completely abandoned. Few clues could be found, but a number of Thoonian nautalodi ships were discovered as well as signs of a strange magical ritual, even more bizarre than that used in sacrificing the elder brains.

It is believed that, in a last ditch effort to preserve their kind, the Thoonian Mind Flayers took their few remaining bretheren into the Far-Realm; beyond the reach of their foes on the Great Wheel- this is what they had been hordeing quintessence for, as it was this substance that became the main foci in the ritual to draw them into the Far-Realm.

This lack of a final victory was a hard hit on the kobolds, who had lost their greatest leaders in the attempt to counter the Illithid's time travel. The result was the creation of the Far Seekers; a group of kobold monks who train their bodies and minds to stave off the effects of the alien beyond. The Seekers are sent en masse into the Far Realm each year during a commemorative ritual on that last blasted Prime (which has been abandoned by all life), though none have yet returned.

It was mere days before the Outer Planes had returned to their normal states, but all would remember forever that one event that brought them together; understanding that, no matter how much they hated one another, if the time came for cooperation or death- cooperation it would be.

Within the last 10 years, reports of entire villages disappearing or bodies found without brains, have once again begin to appear.

Either the Illithids have returned (in what form, most fear to consider) or some new horror is gracing the Multiverse; taking over the role the brain-eatters once filled.

Kal
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erm.....interesting.....erm...yeah, interesting..... Laughing out loud

Have to say, I think Kobolds are one of the worst monster races in dnd, so not a great selling point for me personally.

DR, I feel you overrate the mind flayers, but I'm guessing their your pet race form dnd, but hey ho, we all have our own favorites and do the same (unfortunately, my favorite dnd style race are the Druchii from warhammer, and they dont do cross-overs into UPS). But as to unioting the Wheel aginast a paraistic prime race, I really cant see it. Even just compared CRs and possible populations, the mind flayers need silly amounts of humaniod per mind flayer so i cant see them having large populations. Outsiders dont have such a limit on population. Not to mention that most outsiders are higher CR than the MFs....

However, my own personal opinion of races aside, I think thats a really interesting and well written write up, nicely done. I must admit, I dont even take wander over there these days, but have you looked at the Rrakkma Project here on PW, thats all to dso with the Gith and Mind Flayers?

Anyways, nice story, but not my cup of tea Smiling

Kal

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Meh, I feel ya- alot of people arent fans of the kobolds. Its a result of their being played out as a race of rat creatures.

I much prefer the outlook shown in Races of the Dragon; and, if one really reads the material, the kobolds seem like they would be quite a formidible force if not for one issue- they wont breed unless they have enough resources to support the offspring.

If food were prevelant, and enemies few (and if something changed the kobolds mindset- planning on doing a writeup of the kobold's gods actions during its time as a mortal following Ragnarok), they would spread like wildfire (just like, ironically, rodents do).

Basically, I work off the basis of the LoM- its one of my favorite books. If the material isnt included, I almost certainly would not play UPS. I like abberations, and I think they have some very interesting storylines surrounding them- rather than most of the major races answer of 'we were put here by the Gods... yup, the Gods...."

As a pet race, I suppose you could consider the Mind Flayers one of mine- to be honest though, im personally much more prone to draconic/reptilian creatures (lizardfolk being my personal favorite). The aspect of the Mind Flayers that interests me most (and other abberation races as well, such as the Neogi and Tsochar) is their story- as foes, they arent immediately THAT dangerous.

Quote:
paraistic prime race

Though you can describe the mind flayers in this fashion; their history really elevates them away from many of the more mundane prime races- if you take into account LoM that is.... otherwise, well, they arent really MEANT to be a powerful foe- just some other nasty to fight.

But when you realize exactly WHAT they are and, in the case of the Illithid, where they come from/what their goals are; it really strikes a cord in me. The idea that they arent high enough CR to be a threat seems meaningless to me, as with time (and a growing empire; especially considering the size it is described as being in LoM) I think most Illithid would have class levels- an illithid sorceror with a few levels of most any class is a very formidible foe; their intelligence, power and the ability to suck your freakin brain out in 2 rounds making them particularly nasty foes.

Compared to some of the more powerful outsiders, yes, they likely arent a horrible threat one on one.... but since when do mind flayers travel alone? Their constructs are some of the most powerful you can find; and are more than a match for many adventuring parties- en masse, a match for armies and even nations (Elder Eidolons in the case of true Illithid, and any number of other forms via the Thoonian Mind Flayers). Not to mention thralls- which can come in a variety of forms and strengths. Combine that with the ability to travel space with ease and experience; and you have a VERY formidible foe- outsider or no.

And the idea that Mind Flayers couldnt survive because of a limited number of brains? Didnt you see the Matrix? That problem can be EASILY combated; if the proper time and resources were at hand- which, for the Mind Flayers, is all a matter of time; which they have more than enough of. Not to mention, a change to the Mind Flayer's anatomy (perhaps initiated in an attempt to solve the very problem you present) may render them with the ability to no longer require brains; or at least require them far less frequently- the Mind Flayers of Thoon infact do NOT feed on brains; but rather Quintessence. Though they DO eat brains from time to time, they gain no nutritional value from it.

I appreciate your comments- helps me see holes in the possibility of what im coming up with, and finding the answer.

While I have seen that other project, it was immediately a turn off for me- while I like the Illthid, I HATE the Gith with a passion. I see them as nothing but pety beings and dont especially like them in any facet- they just arent my cup of tea, as you would say.

To be honest, I think im going to pull out abit here following the writeup of the kobold god- I like the idea of the project, but im not sure my overall view of the Great Wheel in the future would be readily accepted by many. I see great changes taking place in the Planes- not just within the Outer Planes, but on the mortal primes as well; and not only in terms of technology, but in terms of cultural advances (the decline of sexual/racial/religious{to some degree} prejudice and persecution being prominent amongst them- not the dismissal mind you, but certainly the decline).

Kal
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First up, it would be a shame for you to pull out of UPS DR, you've added a lot in just a few days and its good quality work Sad

I think LoM is one of those books you really like or you just put it in the pile and shrug.

One thing I must say tho, if I remember correctly, LoM is written from 3e/3.5e cosmology, which thanks to wizards only has a single prime world (though I admitt from reading LoM it doesnt give that impression), so the Illithid empire from that view point is a bit weak....but we shall ignore that oversight coz this is planescape ! Laughing out loud

To be honest, I really hadnt thought much about Mind Flayers in UPS before you brough them up DR, and any creative input for UPS is great, so write them up how you see them, but I would ask if you do write them up (and I'm asking please on that as well) to keep their role within UPS moderate, as I dont think its good for the setting to have one uber race that causes the whole of the oputer planes to unite agaisnt it, but having them be very dangerous in UPS would be great and I have no intention of leaving them out of UPS.

Though you hate them, I am currently working on some UPS fluff for the Githyanki, and though I havent detailed much about Mind Flayers in it, I am assuming they are still around.
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Your also a great source of inspiration - Martix you say. Mind Flayers you say - sorted Laughing out loud
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And one last point DR, I'm only one voice on this project, and I come and go depending on work loads. Hang around for a couple of weeks to see what others have to say, you may find that what i think of UPS is in the minority (I have no idea), as the turn around on feedback for posts in UPS is a bit slow.......

Kal

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Basically Kal, what it comes down to for me is this:

Its just not in me to put forth effort in the manner required here (without any real knowledge that it will be read, let alone included; which I think very little, if any, of my material would be, considering the general feel im getting).

My creativity is best kept to the homebrew settings I create and the games that I run- it has no real place in a setting like this, as I tend to not look at things in the 'big' picture (or at least, my version of the big picture is almost always different and stranger than most people have considered- and most dont care to start).

Its not your outlook that makes me say this Kal; though it did have a minor imprint on my decision. Since I started playing DnD, I have always been the oddball- the lizardfolk rogue/sensate in Sigil, the kobold cleric FR, the poison dusk lizardfolk in Eberron, the kenku, the troglodyte, etc.

Many a DM has told me that, while my creations are without a doubt interesting (enthralling some have even said of my longer works), they just dont have a place in their game world- and they are right. The half black dragon lizardfolk rogue dosnt fit into every party; neither does the kobold cleric.... and neither, in most people's minds, does something like a kobold nation becoming a significant power fit into their ideal of the setting.

Its not only the fact that I tend to steer away from the 'norm', but its the fact that I refuse to stick to the 'stereotypical' ideals placed on many races as a whole(my affinity for the kobold race being a prime example); and that just dosnt fit into the long standing ideals of many DnD players/GMs.

Believe me- I have NO delusions about the idea of UPS containing kobolds as major players or a mindflayer empire; but it was my hope at least to change a few outlooks on the future of the lesser-noted races.

To be honest though, I dont think thats the path this project will be taking and I shall, for the most part, keep my opinions and thoughts to myself- no sense in blathering them about if no use will come of them. And lets not kid ourselves here- little if any of the material Ive contributed would really make the cutting room floor. Its an interesting read for a few minutes, but I really dont think anyone would include it in their outlook of the future of the Planescape setting; and that being the case, I think Ill just save my time and look elsewhere.

Quote:
To be honest, I really hadnt thought much about Mind Flayers in UPS before you brough them up DR, and any creative input for UPS is great, so write them up how you see them, but I would ask if you do write them up (and I'm asking please on that as well) to keep their role within UPS moderate, as I dont think its good for the setting to have one uber race that causes the whole of the oputer planes to unite agaisnt it, but having them be very dangerous in UPS would be great and I have no intention of leaving them out of UPS.

As someone who personally enjoys said race, I cant bring myself to write them up in a fashion I dont see as appropriate; nor can I bring myself to be involved in a project that, I feel, is sanctioning exactly the act I said I will not be involved in.

As I said previously- if LoM material is to be excluded, I would not be interested in playing UPS... The idea of a future containing the Illithid in their LoM role is something that really drew me to the project....as is, considering the rule system thats going to be used and the fact that said material is being excluded, I dont think I will be further involved in this project on any real level (though I am still going to do a writeup on the kobold god sometime soon).... perhaps, way down the line when UPS is completed, I may take a look at it.... as is, its just not my cup o tea.

I run a weekly Planescape game using my own visions of the Multiverse, and can incorporate my creativity elsewhere.

Best of luck though, and Im glad you found what i wrote interesting, hehe!

One final note:

Quote:
But as to unioting the Wheel aginast a paraistic prime race, I really cant see it.

Im sure many people couldnt foresee the alliances formed during the World Wars of our present day world (and we certainly cant foresee the alliances that will be formed in the next); and Im sure almost none of them expected it- but it happened, and cultures which had never before showed any real interest or care for one another came together in the face of a foe that would overtake them.

Just because you have a hard time imagine something happening, dosnt make it any less likely to happen- remember that. If you can keep that in mind and still maintain impartiality, then youll get some fine material.

Kal
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Its a shame to see you loose interest in the project but I can understand it, as most of us only have some much time to dedicate to roleplay and we want to make the most of it, but its still a shame.

Even though you choose not to put time into UPS, please come and visit us here in UPS from time to time if you can and see what we're up to, as from past experiences, it those people who think 'outside the box' so to say, that can spot the highs and lows of matieral. And anyways, roleplay, is by its nature modular, with DMs taking what they want and leaving the rest of settings, so take what you want from UPS, put it through its passes if you want and come back and tell us about it if you have the time.

All the best

Kal

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No worries there- Ill still stop in every so often to lend a bit of this or that.

Im just not going to put forth large amounts of material like I have been thus far- its very time consuming and seems meaningless to me (considering that the material I offer will likely never be anything more than a short post read by a minimal few and never truly included in the UPS setting).

As I said, Im running a PS-style game myself at present; and have every intention of running by my standards- my version of the Multiverse is a place where when it rains, it typhoons.

The dark side of the Multiverse is blacker than coal and more prevelant than most would like to think. But as a result, when the light shines through, it burns away the darkness with acts of will, courage and self-sacrifice so prodigious as to alter history itself- and even the tiniest and most meager of souls can alter the future of existence for beings around the Great Wheel.

Its a world of the greatest heros battling the most vile of villians for the sake of all that is; the span of these battles crossing the boundaries of the worlds, planes and even time itself.

"We suffer and yet prevail."
-Thuirirl, High Priest of the Sacred Mine; Keepr of Dragonwrought Eggs

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