So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

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Pale Night's picture
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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

After reading through, and thoroughly enjoying, Dead Gods, I am left with a nagging question that isn't really gone into in any detail in the module.
Say the PCs get to Agathion and grab the Wand of Orcus but don't know what to do with it, time passes, Tenebrous shows up and grabs the Wand. Orcus becomes a Deity again, so presumably he retains the use of the Last Word.
What could anyone do about it? He can slay anyone he chooses with a single utterance!
I know this falls outside of canon (for good reason!) but I am fascinated by the possibilities and would love to hear what people here think the ramifications might be, and how the situation might reasonably be dealt with.

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

I'm pretty sure that the last word was so powerful that it was gradually killing Tenebrous. Can't remember where I heard/read this. From memory no being (power or not) had the capacity to keep and use the last word without eventually 'burning out'.

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

I was under the impression that the reason the Last Word was destroying tenebrous is because he was not a true deity, more like a sem-deity, and that a Power could contain the power of the Word without it slowly destroying them?

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

I dunno what cannon says on it if anything, but I agree with Azrieal.

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

They say in Dungeon magazine that after Orcus has returned from the dead (aided by his follower Quah-Namog), he retained the power to use Last Word but only in its lesser form. (aka he can slay living but not powers and high status outsiders).
Orcus had lost his divine status (actualy he gave up statust as a god, becouse of his goodhood he died in the first place: he just became too fat, decadent and lazy:) )
when he was resurected and he was diminished to the status of Abyssal Lord (or Demon Prince as they call them these days). So with his divinty he has lost power to fully use The Last Word.

At least that is waht it says under his stat block in Dungeon's finale of the adventure path: Savage Tide in wich PCs must ally with various Demon Lords to defeat Demogorgon.

EDIT: Sorry I did not read your question carefuly. :oops:
In the Adventure Dead Gods they offer suggestion what happens in worst case scenario: If Orcus comes back and starts going around killing gods just for fun. Then soon all other gods meet and devise some sort of countermeasure or ward. Shure it will take some time, and in process some gods will die by Orcus. But in the end the Last Word will become usless to Orcus. Why? Becouse it will not work on gods any more.
This is bit cheasy solution to this problem, but it is either that or: Chaotic Evil Wins, The End scenario.

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Pale Night's picture
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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

Yeah I hear ya. If Tenebrous got the Wand and Orcus came back as a Deity with the Last Word it's more or less game over. I'd be hard pressed to come up with an "elegant" solution, which is why I was posing the scenario in the first place - a "what if" thought experiment. I know there are some pretty well lanned folk on this board Laughing out loud

It seems to me that the scenario is not that far fetched really. As written the PCs would have to be a pretty canny bunch to work it out. Surely this exact thing has happened to some unfortunate PCs? I just fear that my PCs won't get it when they find themselves in this situation... :shock:

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

If it is "what if" you want, "what if" you'll get... Laughing out loud

1. Athar defeats Orcus: Athar numbers swells in numbers becouse they recruit all the folk who's dieties are killed. Eventulay they gather enough of follovers to belive (or rathrer disbelive) Orcus out of existance. But this will require years to compleate.

Or even better...

2. Birth of Varakhuts and Inevitable Wars: Gods order new type of bodyguards and soilders in the forges of Mechanus -Varakhuts. Varakhuts (and other Inevitables) go aroud the multiverse and destroy Orcus follovers and holdings. Last Word is ineffective against this mechanical beings (becaouse they are not realy alive), so eventualy Orcus will have to leawe his position of power (and thus loose full use of Last Word) or risk death from lack of follovers.

3. Revenge of Illsensine/Modrons: Modrons and Illithids form uneasy aliance in wich modrons scan multiverse for Orcus whereabouts, and when he is finaly found Illsensine use her mental energy gathered from Mazzaconian's death and forces Orcus to forget Last Word.

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Pale Night's picture
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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

mate, I like the way you think - take the fight to Orcus' followers more than Orcus himself. I'm running my first PS campaign now, this is the sort of stuff I need to get myself more into the PS mindset - it's a lot different than more "traditional" campaign settings.

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

I'm glad that you like my ideas. Laughing out loud
Here is some more of them (it is amazing what can someone think of to pass boring day at job :shock: ):

Hide and Seek: Many gods go into hiding. Some of them become fully mortals and hide in Sigil. Others dissipate their minds and forms into great nebulas of power. Others hide at the base of spire wher they dont posses any powers but Last Word dont have power either. Rilmani welcome gods with open arms (just think of the fawors they will colect later). In this option gods lay down while their minions search for Orcus's weakness, on prime material plane there is crisis of fate becaouse preists slowly (but surely) are loosing their powers.
EDIT: Also idea for hide and seek: playing possum- some gods decide to fake their deaths so that they can plan their moves undisturbed. They go to astral plane and ask the Guardian of Dead Gods to keep them safe while they "play dead".

Ice Trap / Heart of Winter: Norse god Loki has an cunning plan for this situation. He has learned that on the plane of ice there is place called Heart of Winter. That place is so cold that the wery words spoken there freeze in icy lumps. What is even better: words that freeze in such way are lost forever from speakers minds (unless they are mellted). So Loki palns to planeshift his relam to plane of Ice and trick Orcus to say the Last Word. In that way he dissarms Orcus of his main weapon and he gets to keep the Last Word for himself.

Ballance of Powers / March of Palladions:(this one is epic) Gods have reached the solution how they fight Orcus threat: each pantheon gets its own last word. But since the Orcus has destroyed the last written copy of Last Word in the multiverse, solution to this problem is time travel. So plan is this: 16 champions that represent 16 pantheons from 16 planes (but that could be cut down to nine) will march across temporal energy plane back to time before Last Word was destroyed by Orcus. They will travel in Palladion bodies (crafted by Hefestus) to vithstand the ravages of temporal energy and with build in inhibitors that prevent "pilots" from messing with time/space continnum.

This is basicly compleatly new campain that needs work from ground up (16 aligments working together, time travel and gigant "robots"), but it could be fun, I guess. Smiling
That is why I like Planescape: every idea no matter how strange, epic, unusual or odd will find home in this seting.
Fantasy taken to the edge and beyond. Laughing out loud

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

Here here squaff!
Thats what makes planescape the ultimate RPG! We don't just break with tradition we tear it to shreds!

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

Indeed, nice work Squaff!
I like your "Hide and Seek" scenario - it's a great seed for a high level campaign. In fact I think I might work it into the overall campaign somehow. Thanks mate!

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

Hardly seems fair that Squaff gets to have all the fun. Here are a few ideas I came up with.

Silence is Golden: A few of the gods create a trap to lure Orcus out, but when he arrives they cast a divine-powered Zone of Silence on the entire area. Then, with Orcus unable to use the Last Word, the gods then procede to destroy Orcus in the most painful way possible.
Of course, to be safe, the Zone of Silence would have to be really big. Could be intresting if an entire plane (or even the entire multiverse) gets put on mute for a few minutes.

The First Word: Aoskar has returned! The dead god is back, somehow, similar to how Orcus decided to pull his reappearing act with Tenebrous. And Aoskar has a new weapon to use against Orcus. Aoskar discovered one of the few things capable of fighting the Last Word. Aoskar discovered the First Word.
The First Word is another one of the words of power, completly unknown to Orcus (did you really think the ancient powers would put all their words in the same place). The First Word is rumoured to have been the very first word of power spoken when the multiverse was born. It's similar to the Last Word in that only gods can actually use it. Instead of killing things, the First Word creates things.
Aoskar, for reasons only the portal god truly knows, is hunting down Orcus with a vengance. So far, he hasn't gone anywhere near Sigil, but that could change later. Suffice to say things could get very intresting if the First Word and the Last Word are used together.
If you don't want Aoskar to come back from the dead, feel free to substitute your own dead god in.

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

Lsdfjkdsf wrote:

Quote:
Suffice to say things could get very intresting if the First Word and the Last Word are used together.

Ohhh... nice. Alpha and Omega, Emeth vs. Meth. You have just opened breeding ground for ideas. Smiling

1. They cancel them selfs out, every one goes home happily. But that is too plain for plansecape.
2. Multiverse ends in destruction, but new one is created.
3. Orcus and Aoskar (or any other god using first word)are destroyed (along with considerable chunk of plane where are they currently on), but from their essences and planar matter new miniature multiverse is created within the "normal" multiverse. It is familiar, it has prime material plane and outer planes, but the laws under this new multiverese works are somehow different.
Sages soon name this strange creation "4th E universe". :mrgreen:

Heh. Heh. "What ifs" are fun. :mrgreen:

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

That is an interesting thought. The first thing I thought when I heard First Word and Last Word was "Who says there were any words between them? What if those are ALL the words?"

My assumption following from that would be that by using the words together, Orcus and Aoskar/(insert god of your choice here) would create an alternate multiverse of some sort with them as the progenitor Gods. What happens from that point on would be up to the individual DM, but I can't see Orcus being happy with a mostly empty infant multiverse to conquest around in.

As soon as enough sentient life appeared and began to worship him, I'd expect him to attempt a full scale assault of his home multiverse. Of course, if certain PCs could convince Aoskar to seal any and all portals leading from here to there and back, then perhaps that could be avoided.

(Edit) It would be interesting if the new Multiverse already had a Sigil in it, either already populated by a Lady and Dabuses, or waiting for one to step in and fill the void

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So let's say Orcus kept the Last Word...

Hymmeth wrote:

Quote:
It would be interesting if the new Multiverse already had a Sigil in it, either already populated by a Lady and Dabuses, or waiting for one to step in and fill the void

Another great idea. Smiling
I perssonaly like more one with the empty Sigil, silent and sleeping waiting for someone to be its prisoner and warden. Waiting for new "Lady" to unlock the Doors.

Here is also something to think about: it is said that Sigil is alive, so when the new multiverse is born maybe "mother" Sigil places there its "child" to be palnar nexus. How will "child" grow and what shape it will take it depends purely on its desisions. (Möbius tape is good shape for planar metropolis) Smiling

EDIT: Everyone please sorry for deviating from topic so much. :oops:

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