So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream D&D?

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Hyena of Ice's picture
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So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream D&D?

I like the idea of the Dal Quor from Eberron. Problem is, the Eberron setting is of course, too different from mainstream D&D (e.g. the Planescape, Abeir-Toril, Greyhawk, and Spelljammer settings) settings to be inserted as is.
For those not familiar with Eberron, here's the conundrum:

The Plane of Dal Quor itself is as easily inserted into mainstream D&D settings as Xoriat, as Dal Quor is analogous to the Demiplane of Dreams.
The problem is their activities on the prime world known as Eberron.

The Inspired rule a region called "Riedra", the largest region/kingdom (covering all but the northwest peninsula and the southeast) on the continent of Sarlona, which in turn is located east of the continent of Khorvaire (the main continent of the Eberron Campaign Setting)

The main problem comes with converting The Inspired to the Planescape setting/main D&D cosmology. Obviously, we need to figure out a Prime plane with a region that could fit the description of Riedra. Problem is I'm not very familiar with the Prime planes outside of Abeir-Toril (particularly Oerth and the Prime worlds of Spelljammer).
In the Eberron setting, the Dal Quor have settled on and formed the region of Riedra (planar travel doesn't play a big role in the Eberron setting, and portals to the planes only open once every several centuries), which spans most of the continent of Sarlona.
Because the Riedran empire is so huge, it would likely be very difficult to drop into to Oerth or Abeir-Toril, while sealed Prime planes such as Dark Sun, and Ravenloft would be out of the question, and I don't know much about the Dragonlance campaign setting, but it sounds like it's difficult to Spelljam or planeshift there, and Mystara is just too weird cosmology-wise.

So it's looking as though the only way to adapt the Inspired is by dropping it into an Earth-type Spelljammer planet.
Unfortunately, I'm rather unfamiliar with the Spelljammer setting, so someone else here will have to help me with some of the details and such.

For those not familiar, the Quori are a lawful evil race of aberration-like outsiders native to Dal Quor (equivalent of the Demiplane of Dreams). Until recently in the setting history, they were unable to project their minds into the Prime unless they possessed a special host called an "Empty Vessel". These are specially (psionically) bred humans, tinged with both elven and fiendish blood, who willingly surrender their bodies to the Dal Quori, whom they worship (the Dal Quor have tricked them into doing this). The ultimate goal of the Dal Quor is supposed to be mysterious, though it involves infiltration and presumably defeat from within, primarily of the kingdom of Adar (unconquered region on the SE-most part of Sarlona), and supposedly the ultimate goal is to pull Eberron into the plane of Dal Quor (I don't recall their exact reason for doing this, though I think their diet consists of mortal dreams or nightmares). The Inspired Dal Quor of Eberron work for and communicate with the Dal Quor spirits of the Dal Quor dimension (in other words, the Demiplane of Dreams).
The Dal Quor themselves practice a form of Gaiaism-- that is, they worship their homeplane itself.

Any ideas?

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

I generally prefer the Plane of Dreams to be a full-fledged plane. Of course the problem with it being a full-fledged plane and having the Quori around is the matter of either: why haven't they overrun a bunch of other prime worlds, or why are they only concentrated on one region in one prime world.

But since they are beings connected to a singular dreaming entity, it's quite possible that Eberron is the only world the Dreaming Dark dreams of. But it's also possible that other worlds have other dreams and nightmares much like that of Il-Lashtavar the Dreaming Dark.

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

In reference to other prime worlds, it wouldn't be too difficult to insert the Dal Quor/Inspired there as a minor influence/entity. This wouldn't be too difficult to drop them into Greyhawk and Abeir-Toril; they simply wouldn't have much influence there.

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

I eventually hope to convert other Eberron elements to mainstream D&D as well.

As for a prime plane for The Inspired, I'm looking at Spelljammer.org's index of canonical spheres and planets. (I'm noticing that they're missing at least one, mentioned briefly in the Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings)

As for other elements from Eberron I hope to introduce, they include:

--The shifters. This will likely be incredibly, incredibly easy since they're merely humans with diluted natural (as opposed to infected) lycanthrope blood.

--Elemental Grafts. Won't be too difficult, I just have to figure out who came up with and predominantly practices this technology.

--Living Spells. Actually, this doesn't need any work at all. They're basically identical to spellhaunts, and would essentially be a risk factor when casting spells of certain subtypes on a subtype-dominant plane (e.g. fire-subtype spells on the Elemental Plane of Fire, evil spells on Gehenna, etc.)

--The Deathless subtype, which also won't be too difficult (nowhere near as difficult as adapting the Dal Quor and Inspired). The Deathless are positive energy undead who... nonetheless are vulnerable to positive energy. Buddhist folklore and mythology features dead/living saints who refused to leave their bodies until all beings become enlightened. As such, Deathless beings would be most closely associated with the Kara Tur campaign setting. Churches of Ilmater are also an excellent canidate for deathless saints, as postponing transcendence to the afterlife in order to further aid mortals/do their deity's bidding fits perfectly with Ilmater's portfolio of suffering and endurance.

I have no intention of converting the Daelkyr over. Humanoid Far-Realm natives just don't seem right.

I also have no plans to adapt the Warforged since I noticed someone else here is already doing that. Nor do I intend to adapt the Lightning Rail or Elemental Skyships (though these might exist on some Spelljammer-specific prime worlds)

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

Hyena of Ice wrote:
--The shifters. This will likely be incredibly, incredibly easy since they're merely humans with diluted natural (as opposed to infected) lycanthrope blood.
I would place a lot of Shifters on the Beastlands, simply because they are a very natural fit for that plane.
Hyena of Ice wrote:
--Elemental Grafts. Won't be too difficult, I just have to figure out who came up with and predominantly practices this technology.
Probably the vaguely defined sect the Primals from PSMCIII.
Hyena of Ice wrote:
--The Deathless subtype, which also won't be too difficult (nowhere near as difficult as adapting the Dal Quor and Inspired). The Deathless are positive energy undead who... nonetheless are vulnerable to positive energy. Buddhist folklore and mythology features dead/living saints who refused to leave their bodies until all beings become enlightened. As such, Deathless beings would be most closely associated with the Kara Tur campaign setting. Churches of Ilmater are also an excellent canidate for deathless saints, as postponing transcendence to the afterlife in order to further aid mortals/do their deity's bidding fits perfectly with Ilmater's portfolio of suffering and endurance.
Book of Exalted Deeds introduced the Deathless subtype first. Remember that Mummies used to be powered by positive energy back in 2e, even though they were mostly evil.
Hyena of Ice wrote:
I have no intention of converting the Daelkyr over. Humanoid Far-Realm natives just don't seem right.
The Daelkyr fit just fine in the Far Realms, remember they always wear suits of living flesh and sinew. And I think there was the idea that their insides were something like a mass of worms and tentacles. Their human appearance, might very well just be something they wear after leaving the Far Realm.

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

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roblem is, the Eberron setting is of course, too different from mainstream D&D (e.g. the Planescape, Abeir-Toril, Greyhawk, and Spelljammer settings) settings to be inserted as is.

"Of course?" I don't agree with this statement at all. Eberron could easily be a Prime world accessible through Sigil's portals.

Dal Quor could be the same as the Region of Dreams/Curtain of Vaporous Color in the Ethereal Plane, or it could be a parallel Plane of Dreams from Eberron's cosmology (which might be separate from the Great Wheel, though I don't see much point in that - Eberron could easily be integrated into the Great Wheel cosmology, with certain Great Wheel planes more accessible on that world at different times; the planar orrery concept is already part of Planescape, as the fact that the Modron Orrery in Regulus is an accurate model of the multiverse makes clear).

My idea is that a portal to the quori kingdom in Dal Quor has only recently opened in Sigil, and quori have begun exploring the city, trading the stuff of dreams and establishing themselves while they search for portals leading to new worlds they could invade.

I wouldn't force the Inspired into Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms. Keep them in Eberron and link Eberron to Planescape, or invent a new world to fit them in. Of the established Spelljammer worlds, Nivil from Practical Planetology is the easiest place to fit new cultures, since it's a ring world with a diameter equal to most worlds' orbits. But there's no reason you can't simply invent a new world that includes what you like about Eberron and throws out the things you don't think fit.

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

""I don't agree with this statement at all. Eberron could easily be a Prime world accessible through Sigil's portals.""

Have you actually read Eberron's ecology and fluff?
First of all, the origins of many creatures on Eberron are completely different from those in other settings save Mystara (e.g. in Eberron, Beholders and Illithids are Xoriat natives, while Gem Dragons are magically engineered cross-breeds between chromatics and metallics.)
Second of all there is the issue of the planes. For one thing, you can't just plane-shift to Eberron's planes, because their portals are rarely open. Eberron likewise has an entirely different cosmology, where the planes rotate around the planet like comets.
Another issue is the technology difference-- Eberron has Neo-Imperialist-age technology, which would create a problem for most settings save Spelljammer.
Not to mention that Eberron appears to be a sealed-off prime world much like Athas, Mystara, and the Demiplane of Dread/Ravenloft. As far as I can recall, there is never any evidence in the setting whatsoever that Eberron has had contact with creatures from outside its own crystal sphere, let alone planet.

""the planar orrery concept is already part of Planescape, as the fact that the Modron Orrery in Regulus is an accurate model of the multiverse makes clear""

Hmm, I actually never paid much attention to the Modron/Planar Orrey; I'll have to look into that.

""Nivil from Practical Planetology is the easiest place to fit new cultures, since it's a ring world with a diameter equal to most worlds' orbits. But there's no reason you can't simply invent a new world that includes what you like about Eberron and throws out the things you don't think fit.""

The only problem with Nivil is that it's a very narrow ringworld. Dig more than a mile into the earth and you end up in outer space. Climb or fly more than 75 feet above sea level and you end up in outer space. Yesterday I was, in fact, strongly considering Nivil until I read that about its width. This width spec makes it rather difficult to drop pre-made continents, locations, or campaigns/modules into Nivil. You either have to re-design everything to be flat and remove high-rise buildings, or just plain remove high-elevation areas. Plus you have to keep the width of the planet in mind whenever an encounter with a flying creature occurs.

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

The fluff differences between Eberron and Greyhawk aren't any greater than those between Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk. Neither are its cosmological differences. Eberron is much less a "closed world" than Athas. The technological differences are irrelevant as long as traffic between Eberron and other worlds isn't common, and pose less difficulty than the economic differences between Toril and Krynn. Sigil can link to anywhere, in any cosmology, regardless. I don't know why Nivil's thin shape would prevent it from having Inspired in it.

There's no reason not to make Eberron accessible from Sigil regardless of how you interpret its cosmology, but assuming Eberron is a world in the Great Wheel with an unusual relationship with surrounding planes wouldn't change play in the world.

There's not much to say about the Modron Orrery except that it's an orrery that manages to be an accurate model of the Great Wheel. There are lots of references in obscure canon to planes being closer or further at various times in relationship to celestial events. Eberron has better mechanics for this, is all.

On a side note, Mystara has more official portals leading to other D&D worlds than any other, mostly found on the conversion pages of the Gazetteer series, though there is also a Spelljammer connection between Karameikos and the Rock of Bral in the First Quest boxed set, making spelljamming from Mystara to any named wildspace locatiom possible.

There are problems with connecting any campaign world with any other. Most worlds have their own origin stories for various monsters, differing levels of technology, and cosmological assumptions. Eberron isn't unusual in this, and it's a lot closer to standard D&D than many.

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

""The fluff differences between Eberron and Greyhawk aren't any greater than those between Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk. Neither are its cosmological differences.""

I hope you're not serious. The fluff differences between Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms are miniscule. That is to say, monsters have the same origins, the same abilities, and there are many overlapping deities (esp. the racial ones). The main fluff differences are geographical, ecological (which ties in with geography), and pantheon-based.

""I don't know why Nivil's thin shape would prevent it from having Inspired in it.""
Actually, my point was that Nivil's thin shape would prevent it from having the continent of Sarlona dropped into it. Which would equate more work to work them in.

""On a side note, Mystara has more official portals leading to other D&D worlds than any other, mostly found on the conversion pages of the Gazetteer series, though there is also a Spelljammer connection between Karameikos and the Rock of Bral in the First Quest boxed set, making spelljamming from Mystara to any named wildspace locatiom possible.""
Ah, I was not aware of that. It still poses the problem of physics and mechanics. The ecological origins, the Inner Planes, and many other things on Mystara are so completely different from mainstream D&D.

""There are problems with connecting any campaign world with any other. Most worlds have their own origin stories for various monsters, differing levels of technology, and cosmological assumptions. Eberron isn't unusual in this, and it's a lot closer to standard D&D than many.""
True to some degree. Krynn, Birthright, and Mystara are nightmares in that respect (esp. the latter two).

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

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I hope you're not serious. The fluff differences between Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms are miniscule. That is to say, monsters have the same origins, the same abilities, and there are many overlapping deities (esp. the racial ones). The main fluff differences are geographical, ecological (which ties in with geography), and pantheon-based.

The monsters in Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms don't have the same origins, is my point. Mainly, this is because the Forgotten Realms is a very detailed setting that gives specific origins for many monsters, in a specific place and time on that planet. For example, the drow of Faerun split from the rest of the elven race during the Crown Wars, which is given a detailed history in Faerun - so where does that leave Greyhawk's drow? Did they originate in Faerun and migrate to Oerth? It's because their origins of dark elves in both worlds are similar, but not exactly the same, that it poses such a difficulty - they're clearly the same race, but where'd they come from? Did they appear independently, in two separate wars, or did the Crown Wars spread to multiple worlds? The drow of Eberron, with their history of giant subjugation and completely different religion, are much easier to conceive of as a completely separate elven race that only shares a dark skin tone with the drow of Oerth and Toril.

There are many substantial differences between how creature origins are handled on Faerun and Greyhawk, though. Yuan-ti on Oerth are descendants of Olman humans who made a pact with the god Tlaloc, while on Toril they're creations of the sarrukh. The duergar of Oerth are assumed to have originated when the One Clan lost the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords in prehistory, while in Toril they were enslaved by the illithids of Oryndoll. The derro of Oerth were hybrids of enslaved dwarves and Suel humans created by the ancient Suloise, while the derro of Toril are thought to have been experiments by mind flayers breeding humans and duergar. The skulks of Oerth were members of the Suel undercaste transformed by Suloise wizards, while the skulks of Toril were created by drow.

There are many examples of things like that between Oerth and Toril, origin stories where two clearly identical creatures have contradictory origins. Maybe it's parallel evolution. Maybe all of these creatures originated on Toril and migrated to Oerth, or vice versa (or came from other, unknown worlds). In that case, the official fluff is simply wrong - but you can just as easily declare Eberron's fluff to be wrong.

Eberron's fluff is generally easier to resolve with Greyhawk or Toril's fluff, I think. For example, in Eberron beholders came from Xoriat, while in Greyhawk and Toril they're spelljamming ignorants who are creations of the Great Mother, who currently lives in the Abyss but may have originated in the Far Realm (which is mostly identical to Xoriat - and yes, in this case the origin fluff is identical in Toril and Greyhawk). So maybe some of them traveled to the Far Realm/Xoriat and migrated to Eberron from there. Problem solved. The illithids may have done the same thing, some of them migrating to Xoriat and becoming enslaved by the Daelkyr before settling on Eberron.

Eberron was designed with the idea that nearly all 3rd edition material could be easily used with it. Its way of handling religion is a case in point - the gods of Eberron are known by many different, sometimes obscure names, and in some cases multiple local deities were "merged" to form the members of the Sovereign Host and the Dark Six. So, for example, Balinor may be known as Obad-hai in some places, and Dol Arrah may be known as Heironeous, and Onatar may be known as Moradin. The Mockery may be also known as Hextor or Gruumsh. But really, it's not a problem for people to worship entirely different gods in different worlds, so I'd rather keep them separate. The fact that the elves and dwarves of Toril and Oerth worship mostly the same set of gods (with some differences) lends support to the idea that they have a common origin, which as I said earlier is something of a problem given the very Toril-centric history of the elves and dwarves in Toril. If the Crown Wars and the exile of the duergar had happened in the obscure past, in an unknown place, reconciling them with the history of those peoples on Oerth wouldn't pose a difficulty. The different history and theology of the dwarves and elves on Eberron poses less of a problem in that respect - you don't have the dilemma of the same essential events happening in two different places. If the elves of Toril and Eberron have a common origin, it's long before the Crown Wars.

I take your point about Nivil. I assumed you were just going to drop the Inspired on a world with room for that culture (which Nivil has plenty of), rather than drop their entire continent on another world. You could possibly fit their continent on some obscure and ill-defined official world, like the World of the Red Forest mentioned in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, or super-obscure worlds like Tuimuhva (Tales from the Infinite Staircase, 19), Verdoth (PSMC3, 96), Glemayne (Ombidias's homeworld from the Factol's Manifesto), Neirston (Dead Gods, 12), Rublia (Uncaged, 120, and The Factol's Manifesto, 83), Gallamede (from Fiendish Codex I: The Lost Entries on the WotC website), Talaron (home of the Talaire from Complete Psion), Malena (from Conan the Marauder, a 1st edition AD&D adventure that involved traveling from Hyborean Earth to a parallel world), Tir or Masg (from Dragon #244), the 4e core world, or the world of the Jakandor setting.

Whether it works better for you to just use Eberron (as I would), to use a world that's already partly detailed or at least mentioned (possibly one of the worlds listed above), or to invent an entirely new world is, well, up to you, of course.

Mystara poses something of a problem because it originated as part of a slightly different game system, although many of its differences with standard 2nd edition AD&D were ironed out when it was transformed into a 2nd edition AD&D world. A lot depends on which version of Mystara you use. Much that is distinctively Mystara could be retained in a version where its Immortals are standard D&D deities and its planes the standard D&D planes, which several 2e products assumed was the case. That said, as is, I think, the case with Eberron, you could retain its cosmology and distinctive tropes in full and simply assume it's a very different reality that Sigil, the World Serpent Inn (which is an official way to travel between Eberron, Oerth, Toril, Athas, Sigil, the gate-town of Ecstasy, and Krynn, according to Dragon #351). There's a portal to Sigil in the Urban Arcana world for d20 Modern, after all, and you don't get much more isolated and different from D&D standard than that.

I think Krynn is much worse than Birthright (and worse than Eberron) when it comes to ease of crossovers. Krynn's iron-based currency is the hardest part - it's too easy for worldwalkers with a two-way portal to bring iron from other worlds, trade it for valuable goods, and keep doing that until they've destroyed the local Krynnish economy with inflation. That's not any worse than Athas, though, with its lack of iron weapons and powerful locals. Mystara is a typical medieval economy, and a comparative piece of cake - there's nothing they can bring from Oerth, short of a dangerous artifact, that will cause much havoc on Mystara. Torilians might cause a stir with smoke powder weapons, but Mystara's Savage Coast already has smoke powder (in 2e, anyway; it didn't in basic D&D).

Eberron's artificers and magewrights might cause problems on other worlds, or they might not, depending on whether or not they emigrate en masse and decide to share their knowledge. It depends on whether it actually matters to you if Oerth or Toril get elemental trains or not (you might be fine with it), and if things like magecraft spells even work on Oerth or Toril (magic often varies from sphere to sphere). Keeping portals rare, temporary, and usually one-way keeps it from being a problem regardless. Most Eberron features (quori, magewrights, inspired, zakya rakshasa, magebred animals, warforged, dusk hags, homunculi, daelkyr, etc.) could be imported to Sigil without any problems.

More evidence that the Great Wheel is an orrery includes Dragon #151, which features a yuan-ti brew that can only be created when a certain Abyssal layer is in conjunction with the Prime every thousand years; the periodic cycle of certain portals, such as adventure Gates of Firestorm Peak, which features a portal to the Far Realm that opens periodically, and the portals of Tovag Baragu on Oerth; the late-2e adventure Return of the Eight, in which the witch-queen Iggwilv can only open a gate unleashing an Abyssal army on a certain date; and the (tragically noncanonical) Outlands calendar on Mimir.net, in which different Outer Planes influence Outlands weather at different times of the year. The main problem is the lack of consistent rules for judging when planes of the Wheel are closer or further from other planes. Eberron (and certain Abyssal layers) may have a more extreme orbit through the orrery than other worlds and planes.

My main contention is that you don't have to reconcile cosmology and lore on all the worlds in your campaign. The players, for the most part, won't know what's true, probably won't care terribly much, and may not even hear all the varying stories. As a DM it may be useful to have a single overarching mythos. I think it's possible to build one that accounts for all the wildly varying worlds, but it may make more sense to create one that ignores the "official" versions of things in favor of what works best for you.

I don't want to discourage you from inventing a semi-Eberron that has Inspired but not artificers or Daelkyr if that's what you want, but I think it's equally valid to use a world that's almost identical to Eberron except that uses the Great Wheel cosmology, or a world that's identical to Eberron in every respect but happens to have a portal to Sigil that the quori are using to escape.

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

""The monsters in Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms don't have the same origins, is my point. Mainly, this is because the Forgotten Realms is a very detailed setting that gives specific origins for many monsters, in a specific place and time on that planet. For example, the drow of Faerun split from the rest of the elven race during the Crown Wars, which is given a detailed history in Faerun - so where does that leave Greyhawk's drow? Did they originate in Faerun and migrate to Oerth? It's because their origins of dark elves in both worlds are similar, but not exactly the same, that it poses such a difficulty - they're clearly the same race, but where'd they come from? Did they appear independently, in two separate wars, or did the Crown Wars spread to multiple worlds? The drow of Eberron, with their history of giant subjugation and completely different religion, are much easier to conceive of as a completely separate elven race that only shares a dark skin tone with the drow of Oerth and Toril.""

Um, the Forgotten Realms is quite clear about this somewhere (I don't recall where). The vast majority of humanoid and monstrous humanoid races found on Toril are not native-- they came to Toril during an inter-planetary diaspora (either via spelljamming, inter-prime portals, or both). I specifically recall that the dark elf race that would go on to become the Drow is stated to have arrived on Toril along with other elven races during the diaspora, but were already semi-separate and evil by that point. Again, I don't remember which book states this.
From this we can assume that the origins of such races on Greyhawk were the same.
The Aaracokra and saurials are stated to be among the few indigenous humanoid/monstrous humanoid races to Realmspace.

""There are many substantial differences between how creature origins are handled on Faerun and Greyhawk, though. Yuan-ti on Oerth are descendants of Olman humans who made a pact with the god Tlaloc, while on Toril they're creations of the sarrukh. The duergar of Oerth are assumed to have originated when the One Clan lost the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords in prehistory, while in Toril they were enslaved by the illithids of Oryndoll. The derro of Oerth were hybrids of enslaved dwarves and Suel humans created by the ancient Suloise, while the derro of Toril are thought to have been experiments by mind flayers breeding humans and duergar. The skulks of Oerth were members of the Suel undercaste transformed by Suloise wizards, while the skulks of Toril were created by drow.""

Admittedly, I wasn't aware of these differences as I am not well immersed in Greyhawk fluff. From what I had seen however, it appeared as though the origins were mostly consistent.

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

Quote:
Um, the Forgotten Realms is quite clear about this somewhere (I don't recall where). The vast majority of humanoid and monstrous humanoid races found on Toril are not native-- they came to Toril during an inter-planetary diaspora (either via spelljamming, inter-prime portals, or both).

Yes, there are examples of that happening (for example, dwarves, elves, fey, halflings, gnomes, illithids, beholders, humans, orcs). This is not true for the examples I gave, however, and not many other examples as well. Drow, duergar, derro, yuan-ti, nagas, bullywugs, dopplegangers, kobolds, skulks, aranea, aarakokra, and other races are explicitly native to Toril, which makes it somewhat difficult to figure out how Toril and its races fit into a cross-world campaign. The scaly races were mostly creations of the Sarrukh, kobolds were created by the green dragon Caesinsjach, dopplegangers and bullywugs were creations of the Batrachi, aarakokra were descendants of the Aeree, skulks and aranea were creations of the drow, duergar and derro were "created" by the illithids, and so on.

The Ssri-Tel-Quessir (the ancestors of the drow of Toril) were not drow; they had brown skin and dark hair rather than the ebony black skin and white hair of the modern drow race, who are tainted with the blood of the balor Wendonai during the Fourth Crown War. Drow on other worlds would either have to be descended from Torilian drow or be the result of a similar event on other worlds. Core/Greyhawk versions of the story don't mention a dark-skinned ancestral race (the implication is that they were once the same people as surface elves), so Greyhawk's drow might not be related to the Ssri-Tel-Quessir at all.

Saurials are from a parallel world, and brought to Toril by Moander. They're not indigenous to Realmspace.

Anyway, I don't want to discourage you from creating an Eberron-like world made to fit more smoothly with Planescape if that's what you want to do. Personally, though, I'd just use Eberron, because I don't think it's harder to fit into cross-world campaigns than the Forgotten Realms is. There are certainly ways that Forgotten Realms canon can be reconciled with Greyhawk canon (or, of course, we can just ignore canon where it's inconvenient), but that's just as true of Eberron's differences. I think the fact that Eberron usually has a unique take on nonhuman cultures makes it easier to reconcile, not harder, because we don't have to assume that parallel evolution (or creation) resulted in nigh-identical groups.

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

Actually, Eberron and Planescape are clearly connected, as evidenced by this picture of Sharn (check the tower in the background):

Spoiler: Highlight to view


Hyena of Ice's picture
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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

Eberron Art is sometimes a bad example, though. For instance, the Deadgrim prestige class from Magic of Eberron. The text describes them as appearing "pale and gaunt", and that they are often mistaken for undead. However, the picture shows a rather sexy black woman with a healthy complexion and bodyweight. (people with dark skin look grayish when anemic or deathly pale, rather than a beautiful ruddy brown.) Her skin is also covered in a healthy level of oils (note the sheen), which I would assume would be another trait of a deadgrim (malnourished people suffer from a deficiency of skin oils, and often have flaky elbows and knees-- in photos this usually makes their elbows and knees look powdered *and unlike healthy people who suffer from dry, flaky elbows and knees, there is little redness/inflammation*, and the dry skin looks rather monochromatic-- there is little gradient/contrast. This 'dry skin' look is, of course, also very common in corpses.)

Anyway, while that is most definitely an interesting piece of canon artwork, I think (in fact, I'm fairly certain) the Lady of Pain mask mount is merely an easteregg, with little other relevance.

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This is semi-related, but... (changing the subject a bit)

I'm also thinking of fleshing out part of Anchrome (Toril continent north of Maztica) a bit. It'll be a problem though, as the part I wish to flesh out is the analogue of the Pacific Northwest coastal groups (SW corner of coastal BC, Canada to southern Oregon), and the fan map (I can't seem to find it now, but I thought I used Google image. Oh, here we go, the file is spelled "Anchorome".) is a bit difficult to reconcile with. I can tell what region it is SUPPOSED to refer to (the swamp area between the two mountain ranges, which I believe is an analogue to the Wilamette Valley-- the NW coast tribes burned 1/3rd of the valley with fire every year for better hunting and foraging, which resulted in a unique wetland prarie ecosystem), but there really need to be rivers running through it and forests nearby.
Since I live in Portland, OR, the group I'm most interested in incorporating are the Chinook tribe, which would definitely add flavor to the setting (they were a tribe of merchants, traders, and gamblers, and several of the traders were also "honorable thieves" of a type by some reports *these thieves, mostly middle-class traders, had to follow strict rules. For instance, they couldn't steal off of someone's property unless invited, they were only allowed to steal the object under someone's nose, had to remain with the victim for 2-3 hours with the stolen object in plain sight on their person, and if caught, they had to trade something of great value to themselves, perhaps the most valuable item they had. And of course, hardly all the merchants that the European traders encountered were thieves.)
From the sparse canonical texts of Anchrome, the continent appears to be an analogue to the NW coast and east coast peoples. I also found a site using the Internet Wayback Machine with the Virtual Fantasy: Forgotten Realms (Crosswinds) site that gave an in-depth description of the continent, though it does not appear to correlate to the fan-made map.
(What I'll probably do is simply conglomerate them into one single region-group and then make the thieves a sort of organization or guild.) Do you think this is too controversial for the site? (I know encorporating such groups into D&D is a controversial subject, and the descendents of these groups might find it offensive.) I would have posted this on the Spelljammer board, but I didn't feel like starting a Wizards account, plus those boards seem near-dead. So I guess this board would be the next best thing (I haven't investigated Candlekeep, though), since Spelljammer.org suggests that Anchrome is nigh-impossible to reach save via spelljamming or planewalking (the desert between Anchrome and Maztica is too dangerous, and the seas surrounding at least the eastern ocean of Anchrome is incredibly dangerous as well)
I also would have created a separate topic for this, but I didn't know where it would be appropriate for these forums.
The fanofficial map would need some adjustments, most definitely-- mostly just some rivers added (looking at the map, there's no differentiation between forest and plains, but forest is assumed. I imagine some of those mountains in the north would be semi-desolate.)
It will be interesting to see what kind of ecology we would end up with. Cascadia (the name of the real-life region this would be an analogue to) is ecologically an incredibly safe area comparably. The only creatures the first nations really had to worry about (other than other humans, which would have been their primary concern) were black bears and jellyfish. There were no wolves, grizzlies (actually, there was supposedly a good-sized grizzly population in the Puget Sound area at one point, but that's it), venomous snakes, or dangerous sharks, and the only danger from fish (which the NW coast peoples were quite dependent on) were if one jumped out of the water and knocked you out.

So, the main monsters we'd probably see are lizardmen in the wetland praries (they'd have to be semi-nomadic since most of the praries dry out in the summer), dangerous humanoids and monstrous humanoids all around, and monster fish. Oh, and malevolent spirits. Oh, and plant monsters, can't forget those.
I can't think of a whole lot of things off the top of my head that a Spelljamming company would want, but that's what Spelljammer.org suggests (that there are Spelljamming hubs already here, or that the continent is good for spelljamming), and it would certainly fit the profile of the NW groups. The main currency here would be some type of shell, though fish were also used as currency. The NW peoples were far more materialistic than most North American groups (nature was very good to them-- they lived in a marine, as opposed to continental climate, with cool summers and warm winters, and live vegetable matter remains active here year-round, as opposed to the midwest or East coast where absolutely everything that isn't a conifer dies down in the winter. Our "winter season" here only lasts from mid-December to mid-Febuary, during which we have below-freezing or freezing nights and barely-above freezing days-- the weather during this time is usually very windy and rather dry, except on the coast where it is very, very windy and 'misty'.)

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

I aloud a character in my party to play The Planar Shepard out of Eberron Campaign Settings. First off, the planar Shepard from planes scape covers this b.s. class.

As far as the plane of dreams? Well look at this way everyone dreams. It isn't outside the realm of possibility that he some how "planar shifted" in Faerun. If you look at the map of dream scape it is quit possible to do this as the dream world is created from "mass imagination".

I tend to allow the following classes and races into Forgotten realms for d&d magic the gathering.(this is what I call Eberron because if you look through all the b.s. it is magic the gathering in a d&d setting.)

Races: Warforged(created in lantan), Shifter, Changling

Classes: Artificer

These are pretty much the only classes and races that translate well to Faerun.

Oh and Ravenloft is not on the plane of shadows or the demi plane of shadows, it resides in it's own domain called the Domain of Dread(read 2nd edition ravenloft, particular domains of dread)

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Re: So how do we fit the Dal Quor into Planescape/mainstream ...

Actually, what I finally decided with Dal Quor is that it's a demiplane, and a part of the dreamscape, which encompasses many demiplanes along with the vanilla "dream curtains". This allows the different nightmare/dream planes from different books (e.g. The Shallows from Hyperconsciousness) to be implemented without much effort.
In all likelihood, the Dal Quor have only recently become aware of prime worlds other than Eberron. Like the Demiplane of Dread, most of these demiplanes are surrounded on all sides by dream curtains.

As for the warforged, they work just fine as a Mechanus mortal race with minor houserule changes.

I made a post in the Brainstorm topic (I think) for de-munchkinizing the Planar Shepherd. I don't remember if one of the things I added was that only NPCs could take it, or not, but I did reduce the range and effectiveness of its aura.
On a similar note, I always houserule that "Avoid Planar Effects" and similar spells from the Planar Handbook are only available to planar guides and NPCs, while PCs have to use "Breathe X" spells and "Protection from X" spells. Even then, some effects of the planes are IMPOSSIBLE for a non-indigenous native or planewalker to protect themselves from-- e.g. zones of True Cold on Paraelemental Ice, Voidstone on the Negative Energy Plane, and Caerulean Magma on Fire and Magma (the only thing that can POSSIBLY protect a person is maybe an Avoid Planar Effects or similar spell cast by a guide, though IIRC the general rule is that only overt, continuous effects of the plane can be neutralized by these spells.)

Many of the rules I've created for the Inner Planes require an additional subtype be added to some creatures-- the "Indigenous" subtype, which means that the creature's species originates from the plane. For instance, a white dragon born on Paraelemental Ice has the "native" subtype, but not the "indigenous" subtype because white dragons are indigenous to the Prime.

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