Sigil Prohibition

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Jack of tears's picture
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Sigil Prohibition

I posted this over in the Urban Planescape boards, but I realized almost no one seems to read or post over there ... with no offense to our one fine member who did ... but it seemed likely I'd get a better response over here.  So, if no one is overly offended by the double post:

 

So, I've been toying with the idea of setting a Planescape game in a 1920s - 30s themed setting, complete with organized crime, speak easies, and attempted Prohibition by the Govnors and Hardheads, Bootlegging, Flappers, Jazz, etc.  And was curious if anyone could offer me some good ideas I hadn't thought of.

I'm going to have the setting fairly humancentric, with most non-humans in Sigil being either of the very near human variety (most of the pc races) and have the more bizarre creatures either taking human form or forced into a human-esque mold by the power of the city. (Ogres would look like large, brutish humans, kobalds would appear to be dirty street urchins, etc.)

There would still be magic and plane travel, with a large train depot in the Lower Ward leading to most of the outer planes or their gate towns, while I envision the Ethereal as a vast way station packed with travelers to the prime and the demiplanes.

Cars, radio, telephones and the new moving picture would be fairly common sights in the City of Doors - which I intend to play with a gritty, Noirish vibe.

Since I know we have some infinately creative people here, I am hoping to get some input on ways to make this work as effectively as possible.  Any and all ideas are welcome. (aside from "ditch the noir" or something equally unconstructive)

Thanks

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What you're doing here is

What you're doing here is laudable, but there is an element of Planescape that is lost when you remove themore bizarre creatures. I think that this idea is very much operable though, but some things need to be examined, and/or questioned.

1) What's the level of technology and society outside of Sigil? Even if your players never leave the cage how's the clueless coming in going to react.

2) What caused the prohibition? What's being prohibited? How has Sigil developed recently to accomodate for all these things?

3)  How have the factions changed to accomadate the new social structure? Some become more important depending on your view, others less. 

4) Are all the planes equal human-o-centric, because if so it removes a lot of the wonder of the setting inherent in the celestials and demons, although the "holy g-man" is a semi-adequate replacement.

5) What's the conflict you want to focus on? Is it the prohibition itself? Or something else. If you tell us what you want to focus on we can help you with plot points and ideas much better.

6) Lastly, what system/edition are you planning to run under?

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It might be interesting to

It might be interesting to have the city function almost as a place where varied narratives across the planes are filtered through this lens of the 1920s-30s. Some magic still works obviously, but perhaps chasing down the Wand of Orcus suddenly becomes hunting for a diamong or Maltese Falcon or somesuch.

Basically, you are still looking for something that will be the Wand of Orcus when you leave Sigil, but it becomes some comparable, appropriate item while in the city's borders. This would also make the city that much more disturbing to the rest of the planes, as upon leaving your memory is hazing and events twist to accomodate a narrative more appropriate to the fantasy medieval setting of the rest of the Multiverse: getting gunned down becomes getting killed by a barrage of magic missles or arrows.

The mind *knows* that isn't really what happened, but it tries to approximate Sigil reality with Everywhere-Else reality.

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Jack of tears's picture
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>>1) What's the level of

>>1) What's the level of technology and society outside of Sigil? Even if your players never leave the cage how's the clueless coming in going to react. <<

There tends to be something of an assumption that most of the planes opperate on a Dark Ages - Elizabethan Era technology (though I've never taken to that) so in keeping with this many of the planes will be translated into a 20s-30s level technology.  Yes, there will be some both more and less advanced, but those will be the exception rather than the rule.

>>2) What caused the prohibition? What's being prohibited? How has Sigil developed recently to accomodate for all these things? <<

 These are the types of questions I tend to answer as a campaign unfolds.  I want to make certain I can get the genre to work in PS before I spend time I don't have between school and work writing up lengthy background material. 

That said, the reason for the prohibition - metagaming wise - is quite simply a personal interest in the era and the impact it will have on players - bringing the themes to the fore.  As to what is being prohibited - drugs, hard alcohols, prostitution, games of chance, infernal concoctions, the sort of things the Hardheads would love to see crushed under their heels.

As would be expected, the prohibition isn't being swallowed without a fight, so some sections of the city - the Hive for example - are less prone to recognizing it than others.  For the most part the prohibited activities have moved into back rooms and the undersigil where they hide until rooted out.

>>3)  How have the factions changed to accomadate the new social structure? Some become more important depending on your view, others less.  <<

The Harmonium has gained a good deal of influence in the city, though the Anarchists and Indeps do what they can to undermine their power through various methods.  For the most part I'm at a loss about what to do with many of the Factions.  This is one of the areas in which I need help.

>>4) Are all the planes equal human-o-centric, because if so it removes a lot of the wonder of the setting inherent in the celestials and demons, although the "holy g-man" is a semi-adequate replacement. <<

Many of the inner and outer planes have adopted the feel of the timeline, however, when one enters those planes they are still dealing with the native creatures ... just given a noirish flavor.  How much flavor depends, really, on how well they translate; so, you will see celestials as "holy g-men", but modrons will still look very much like modrons.

My intent is not to remove the wonder from PS ... that is a large part of why I like the setting ... but to combine it with something "new" and make it wonderous in different, yet familiar, ways.  Basically, the multiverse this setting is taking place in, is a reflection of the multiverse the pcs know ... after all, if it is truly infinate, then it can't all be one thing.

>>5) What's the conflict you want to focus on? Is it the prohibition itself? Or something else. If you tell us what you want to focus on we can help you with plot points and ideas much better. <<

For the most part the prohibition is mostly background.  Certainly it will come into play and effect the pcs lives, but it isn't the focus of the game ... the focus will be various conflicts as in any game - but grittier and more apropos of the genre.  In the early adventures organized crime will play a big role, though that will be interspersed with adventures appropriate to the various characters in the game.

Mostly I need ideas in how to translate the PS we know to the PS I am looking to run.  If you catch my drift.

>>6<< I'm running in something of a cross between 2nd and 3rd level.  We have feats and more skills, but AC, level progression, monsters, Attack, etc. are all 2E.  But, really, I'm not focused on system so much as fluff ... I can always adjust fluff to fit the system.

At any rate, thanks for your ideas in advance, and I look forward to seeing what people do.

 

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Well PS as it stands was

Well PS as it stands was originially (I believe, so take it with a grain of salt) meant to be played either as adventure in an exploratory sense or as an intridue/espionage/political sense, so alot of the flavor can be maintained (perhaps you ought to consider "augmenting" the chant though, just to adjust it more to the porhibiton feel).

As to the factions the Athar I see as being organized alot like the temperance sufferage orginizations of the tme,in that you see alot of them handing out leaflets in front of churches and occasionally shaking one up but for the most part remaining simply scholars whose ideas can be offputting or not depending on the person.

Believers of the Source are cooks, the equivalent of shakers, seventh day adventists, etc. Their beliefs are socially accpetable, and their position as an industrial congomerate is respected, but they're still a little odd. Actually, think Oneida company, I think, although that's bit farther back in time.

The Bleak Cabal need not really change that much, saving their outfits. Existensialism was just as prominent in the 1920s as it was in the Dark Ages, i.e., not at all.

Doomguard, everybody's favorite (okay, probably not) these guys are the more anarchist version of the anarchists. While the anarchists I see as just "perpetual revolutionaries" the Doomguard can be made more like the punk movement in the UK. They broke things to break them, because it felt good. Their role needn't change and they shake things up not because they are necessarily opposed to the prohibiton (especially since it's actually made the city more disordered) so much as interested in shaking things up to see what breaks.

Dustmen are the same. Creepy blokes who now wear mothballed undertaker suits instead of robes. 

The Fated are starting to become more prominent. Their philosophy, as it falls in line with Ayn Rand's objectivism (probably the wrong word) is actually enhanced by the oppurtunites created by a prohibition and even more so by the industrial revolution. I see them standing with heavy ties to organized crime and more legal business but being sly enough to stay clean.

Fraternity of Order. I think you've already got them covered. Still the endless bueracrats and scientists but with the fashion of the current age. Having finally got an order in place only to see it start to fall apart I see them increasingly desperate looking for better peaceful ways to solve the problem. With their utter focus on law they're desperate because they just can't understand why everyone isn't happy to have their lives ordered.

Free Leaguers don't like seeing others force their beliefs on them so their probably standing up to it. Vocally but nonviolently at first (although they'll still hit a speakeasy) but as they Guverning Triad (Guvners, Hardheads, Red Death) cracks down thanks to the Doomguard and the Anarchists they start to split, either cutting out or sticking to their guns and being gunned down for it.

Harmonium: Finally law and order in Sigil, if we can only get the sodding berks to accept it it'll be perfect and we can move on out to the planes. We can't let them stop us.

Mercykillers: Prohibition was okay, but what's better is the response. Of the people happiest with the situation with the increase in organized crime and general law-breaking, the two that stand at the top are the Doomguard and the Mercykillers. The city is more freewheeling than ever and all the laws are starting to break down which gives the Mercykillers a better chance to excercise their beloved justice. As time passes they grow much closer to the Harmonium, with the Hardheads giving the Red Death more and more leash outside the prison to aid with controlling the population, which will only excarbate the situation. The Guvnors however may eventually realize just what monster they've allowed to be created and may either try and reverse it or secretly give aid to the more moderate elements who speak out against it.

Revolutionary League: Bomb throwing liberals. Not necessarily the operators of speakeasys and such, these are the ones who aid the criminals (who are most likely Outsiders or Fated as I see it, the Fated sitting aside both sides of the legal line) just to break it down, the ones who bomb innocents and guilty alike in order to further their cause. Some of them are just outspoken against it peacefully, but as usual all will be tarred with the same brush and the hammer will be coming down. Hard. 

Sign of One: This really doesn't effect them that much on a faction wide or general level. They may actually split over the issue, although it's unlikely. The average person's likely to see them the same as always, maybe a bit cooky but generally good hearted. They may struggle to remain neutral in the Hall of Speakers but will likely be among the least effected.

Sensates can go a few ways. They may just be a large hedonists club or a legitamate philosophy group but the "sensational" theaters will be all the rage, as will all the new art and music. They may be slightly miffed that it's harder to get somethings but really, prohibiton has created more new sensations than it likely destroyed, and its still possible to get those things, just a bit tougher. 

The Transcendent Order ascetics who may have withdrawn into their shells over the situation and tend to remain inside, however their tendency to simply do things with little to no apparant reason may mean they come into conflict with the Guverning Triad, but most likely givent their disposition to mediation and maintaining the balance, they may end up being the voice of reason in the city as it breaks down. Or they may just walk out as the city pulls itself out of balance. In any case, the great gymnasium would likely be just as popular as ever, with the exception that the poor might be "discouraged" by wealthier elements from going, making it mostly a rich man's spa. 

Lastly the Xaositects. Probably the hardest hit at the beginning of the prohibiton their natural tendencies will likely bring them instantly into conflict with the harmonium, likely leading to most of them quickly being scragged and/or killed, but despite their near destruction they'll find a way to worm through the danger and make it out again, maybe becoming unlikely heroes, more active than the Free League, but less maliciously destructive than the anarchists.

I hope that helps you summit. GIT

P.S. Oh! Also, one way to make it feel gritter is to make it so that one of the laws requires all personages to maintain a "reasonable" form, i.e. one of a humanoid, and items are provided that allow this. They still act just as holy or fiendish, but now look more like flappers, businessmen, and gangsters. I think I'd distance the powers from the planars and primes a bit more than usual as well. Very few proxies involved. One idea that came up somwhere was inter-planar trains. What if one of the inventions was simply that, a sort of train that ran along planar conduits?

Anyway, done for real now. GIT

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Jack of tears's picture
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>>The Bleak Cabal need not

>>The Bleak Cabal need not really change that much, saving their outfits. Existensialism was just as prominent in the 1920s as it was in the Dark Ages, i.e., not at all. <<

As I recall, the Bleak Cabal not only run the maddhouse, but tend such facilities as soup kitchens and halfway houses.  In that regard they will continue to be much the same.  Lady knows the era has its share of homeless and lost.

>>who are most likely Outsiders or Fated as I see it, the Fated sitting aside both sides of the legal line<<

I envision the large organized crime rackets to have heavy infernal ties.  The more organized crime syndicates will be run by the Baatezu - dealing in drugs, prostitution, gambling, crooked business, etc; while the fractous, violent mobs, the type who run protection rackets and burn down those who don't pay, will be heavily influenced by the local Tanar'ri population, with anarchists thrown it for good measure.  Neither group with exclusively, or even mostly, outsiders ... merely run and influenced by those forces.

 >>One idea that came up somwhere was inter-planar trains. What if one of the inventions was simply that, a sort of train that ran along planar conduits? <<

 Someone did bring that up a while back and I mentioned it in my opening post in this thread.  It's a good idea and certainly one I'll run with.

I can envision the Transcendant Order, and maybe the Free Leaguers taking jobs as reporters to keep the balance of information vs power in the first place, and to fight the party line - keeping people informed enough to make their own decisions - in the second

All good ideas you had there, they certainly help to pull things together.

 

 

Jack of tears's picture
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Re: Sigil Prohibition

For reasons personal and not do to the setting, my noir game fell by the wayside for a while, but is now getting back on track and I was curious if anyone else had ideas for this ...

Specifically I was curious how people might "noir up" some of the planes outside of Sigil and make them more accessible to characters from a 20-30's esque era setting. As I state earlier in the thread I still want magic and wonder in the planes, but it would be nifty if I could have that and a setting appropriate translation as well ...

So, any ideas about this or other elements of the concept are welcome ...

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Re: Sigil Prohibition

The Bleak Cabal need not really change that much, saving their outfits. Existensialism was just as prominent in the 1920s as it was in the Dark Ages, i.e., not at all.

Nihlism and existentialism were essentially born out of World War I, so it's rather inaccurate to say that. And really, what is the blood war if not the trenches of the Somme? An endless pointless tragedy of suffering and the wasting of human life.

I think there is plenty of room for incorporating various plays on the factions.

Xaositects: Dadaism is a good thing to map the Xaositects on to. A sort of protest against the insanity of modern life by embracing the absurd.

Doomguard: Apocolyptic Visionaries. They see the advance of destructive technology as heralding an inevitable apocolypse. Some embrace it as the natural conclusion of humanity. Others think its the most unnatural end possible and seek to delay it. Etc.

Mercykillers: Relegated to secret societies and Mob Rule, groups analogous to the Klu klux klan have risen in prominence with the increasing marginalization of institutional cruelty and discrimination. Secretly the Mercykillers organize these disparate groups, maintaining their distance through rites of initiation and obscure symbology. Their thirst for vengeance over their dethroning as a faction has twisted them into hateful shadows of their former selves.

Sign of One: This one is tricky. Ill get back to that some other time.

The Fated: I would say these would have evolved into a group promoting radical self-interest, alla Objectivism. They embrace industry and see the self as both the means and end. Industry is a way for the willful individual to multiply their power far beyond what was once possible. And really, it benefits everyone, because it creates jobs and makes goods cheaper! Honest!

The Guvners: I think they would rather obviously become utilitarians and technocrats. They would see technology as the new way to perfectly regulate society and to discover the rules of the planes.

The Transcendent Order: Briefly marginalized by the march of Enlightenment, the Transcendent Order has experienced a small resurgence with the sudden availability of new mind expanding drugs. Still on the edge of society, they are now a mesh of progressive literary and artistic types as well as genuine mystics of the old school. A sort of new transcendence has emerged as the dominant paradigm (think Doorways of Perception alla Alduous Huxley).

The Anarchists: At the height of their powers due to the increasing damage a single individual can do due to technological progress, the anarchists nearly succeeding at bringing the multiverse to its knees. HAving assassinated 7 factols within 3 weeks, they ultimately caused the Bloodwar to spill across the entire outlands as the massive power vacuum created by the sudden deaths resulted in a mad grab of outland towns by the fiends. Only a grand alliance of good and neutral gods was able to stem the tide, but the damage was done. The reaction to the Anarchists has been swift and severe. They are now enemy #1, and few factions sympathize with them any longer. The need for secrecy is greater than ever.

The Sensates: The sensates need little modification. Suffice to say hedonism is as strong as ever, with drugs like opium and heroin now entering the mix though, the once carefree faction now must deal with a seedy underbelly of opium dens and speakeasy's. Mass communication has also cheapened some of the headier philosophy of the faction, with the mass market appeal of these technologies aiming for a broad demographic base. I'm sure there is room for a Vaudeville in here somewhere, competing with the advent of the Talkie.

Indeps: Hardly needs an explanation. It might be fair to say that the faction has become more popular though.

Believers of the Source: Have to think on it. Presumably relentless perfectionists alla Charles Atlas. Will give it more consideration.

The Dustmen: Morphed into Gothic Occultists, perhaps a dash of Alastair Crowley and H.P. Lovecraft. They feel they have begun to pierce the veil with the advent of new technologies, and what they see they feel proves that there is something beyond the Living Death. The thing is, it's not what anyone expected. What they have found is strange and even horrifying. Some claim this is just another stage of undeath (the holdout Buddhists amongst them), but an increasing number have delved into the dark secrets that are being revealed, feeling that the True Death is within their grasp, so long as their minds can hold up under the impossibilities being illuminated.

Athar: God is Dead/Nietzsche Light. The advance of technology has proved that every aspect of the multiverse is governed by central rules, including the "powers", and ultimately it is up to each individual to realize that this nature is all pervasive, and that the limits of Gods are false restraints that bind the human creative spirit.'

I think that is everything. I like the idea. Would love to elaborate more on it.

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Re: Sigil Prohibition

Oh, forgot the Harmonium. I imagine them as having split in two, with the corrupt beat cops and the upstanding G men.

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Re: Sigil Prohibition

For one thing I don't think a prohibition would be very effective at all in Sigil, given the nature of the city. It would likely mean you just have more slumming it in the Hive. I read a bit on the history of the prohibition, and it was rise of certain special interest groups across the world at the time. My country had a prohibition for a short time, but it wasn't nearly as strong and varied depending on province, and in fact alcohol was legal in my province (BC) during the entire time American Prohibition.

In that regards I definitely see the Gatetowns being very influential in that most of them probably would have done away with such laws, after having it for a short while. Maybe the chaotic and the evil ones never had such laws to begin with (and maybe it was always banned in aXos except on the 7th Tuesday of a month). But soon across all of the Gatetowns (with Fortitude being the last holdout) they'd find that it just wouldn't work.

A lot of gangs would soon take to smuggling alcohol from the Gatetowns, from the worst Plague-Mort has to offer, to some of the sweetest that Ecstasy brewed. Because of that I certainly see different gangs having roots in some of the Gatetowns. Alcohol would come in at night, or through Undersigil all in secrecy to avoid the lawful trio factions and to escape the notice of rival gangs which would surely try to take the shipments for themselves.

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Re: Sigil Prohibition

>>The Dustmen: Morphed into Gothic Occultists, perhaps a dash of Alastair Crowley and H.P. Lovecraft.<<

I love this. I was wondering what to do with them, and any excuse to add a little cthulhu to a game is worth it.

>>I think that is everything. I like the idea. Would love to elaborate more on it<<

Feel free to elaborate on it as much as you like - every idea helps me flush out my campaign that much more.

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