Sigil PC Residences?

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Rhys's picture
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factotums
Joined: 2004-05-11
Sigil PC Residences?

Where do characters in your campaigns live? It's sort of an unnecessary idea in a lot of campaign settings, because characters spend their days in dungeon complexes and by night end up in camps or village inns. But in Planescape, nearly every campaign has a base of operations in Sigil, and you can return to that base nightly after (and during) every adventure, because it's only a portal away.

1) Do characters in your campaigns have their own kips in Sigil?
2) How nice are those houses and where are they located?
3) If not, where do they live? Is it reasonable for someone to live in taverns?
4) How much do they spend on residence or do you just handwave rent, since domestic costs are nothing to the riches that an adventurer carries around in his pockets?
5) Speaking of portals, are there any in that house?
6) Do they all live together? Is it reasonable for all these characters to be roommates on top of everything else? Shouldn't they all have their own houses, since they presumably didn't always know each other? Isn't having the party split up for the night annoying and uselessly complicated?

I don't know where to draw the line between making it easier on the campaign and not spoiling those greedy little players.

Gerzel's picture
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factotums
Joined: 2004-05-10
Sigil PC Residences?

1. In the games that I run and play yes, if the game is set in Sigil than players have a place for their kip, but that doesn't mean that it is a good place.

2. Starting off anywhere but the Lady's ward, unless there is reason to be in the Lady's ward. While land is expensive rental prices are within the means of an adventurer or party.

3. Certainly it is reasonable to live in a tavern. As long as there are rooms for rent and the party pays its bills. Just remember if they don't they could be out on the street with or without any possessions they left in the room.

4. If the party is doing well some loot should go to their housing, as landlords always call after you win the lotto. How much jink goes into it is more dependent on the players. Jink not only buys comfort it also buys security.

It also matters how well the party treats their landlord and residence. If the adventurers are just in for nights between quests causing a ruckus then the landlord will party with them, and present the bill promptly the next day(all damages included). If the party not only looks after their own but also makes sure to keep where their staying in order then the landlord probably would be more lenient.

Another notes is that in Sigil, even for high level parties, there will ALWAYS be a land lord. Land values are high in sigil in all but the very worst of the worst. The only "free" land is in the slags, and getting it is an adventure in and of itself. Around lvl 14 PCs may be strong enough to take solid control of a squat in the hive, by fixing it up and actually taking care of the place. By 18 they may be able to start thinking about bribing the right officials to get a legal deed to that squat. To truely buy land on the open market in Sigil you'd need a 20+ level bankroll.

Gerzel's picture
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factotums
Joined: 2004-05-10
Sigil PC Residences?

A nice Dirty Trick to pull on your PCs if they become careless about where they are staying and who they are renting from is to have the landlord ask for a favor.

Remember that while the cutter who collects the rent is generally called the landlord often they are only managers holding the property for the real owner. Among others Shemeska is one of those major land barons in Sigil and could easily come over for a visit to chat with her renters. There are always a few small errands that need to be done and The Wise Fiend is more than willing to barter to delay collection of back payments for a favor.

Armoury99's picture
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Sigil PC Residences?

Oh, the places we’ve called kip over the years!

Most of our games start off in the Cage, and the group almost always has a base there - partly for the portal convenience but also because “without a kip in the Cage, you’re not a real planewalker” (at least that’s what the estate agents keep saying!)

Our lodgings have been very varied, and often set the tone of the campaign. We also love developing the area around each kip, as it not only shows new players the ‘local colour’ but helps to create the feeling that the PCs exist in a vibrant and living setting (God is in the little details here, like how long it takes the cleric to walk to the nearest appropriate temple or how the local urchins follow the party sorcerer about begging to be shown some magic. PC actions are bound to impact on the area where they live, for both good and ill).

Even if they only spend time a short while in their lodgings between adventures, the party will likely have a local tavern, laundry, and fast food joint, etc. A canny DM can use lots of the details as adventure hooks - such as “nobody causes trouble in my bar!” - and a night on the town makes a good alternative to endless adventuring (especially if 1 or more players suddenly can’t make it that session), and some ‘harmless’ fun and comedy, since PCs usually outclass the locals.

The local area is also a great forum for letting characters show off their beliefs and attitudes in a non-adventuring situation: Do they promote their Faction or religion? Do they hold themselves aloof or mix with the locals? Are they thought of as potential defenders and champions, or as trouble-makers? And of course what does the local Hardhead patrol think of them?

Digressed a bit there, sorry.

Personally I think that a body’s kip is pretty important to a campaign.

1) Do characters in your campaigns have their own kips in Sigil?
2) How nice are those houses and where are they located?

In our various campaigns, we’ve had the following lodgings:

In the attic of a mechanised saw mill in Lower Ward – complete with a giant buzz-saw blade in the middle of it (the DM sulked for hours when we built a box around it). Also it was VERY NOISY!

Above a tinker’s shop in Clerk’s Ward.

In a cursed Daern’s Instant Fortress that automatically pledges your soul to Mephistopheles if you spend the entire night in it.

In a one-room pit filled with thousands of discarded articles of clothing

In a cuckoo clock hung up in someone else’s kip (a faerie PC).

In a ‘Ye Olde Worde’ style place in Lady’s Ward, mothered by an immense rotund old woman (she keeps saying “oh, we can settle up later” and I suspect we’re going to get billed for about a million gp come the end of the month!)

Above the Paper Dragon in Clerk’s Ward, protected magical spells, an Aoskan Hound, and the good will of several powerful wizards... but if they’re not back home when the shop shuts up, they’re locked out for the night!

Other locations we’ve toyed with but not actually used include:

Hiring an Arcadian pony carriage and living in it, trotting unceasingly around Lady’s Ward.

A beautiful palace in Lady’s Ward (but to get inside you have to go via portal to the Abyss, sprinting past numerous monsters to a second portal that leads inside)

Living in an entirely illusionary apartment (actually it’s a bare, damp, squat)

3) If not, where do they live? Is it reasonable for someone to live in taverns?

Well, the question is wouldn’t you rather live in an inn? Although some taverns might have a room or a common area you can sleep in, they’re made for drinking not sleeping in (would you really like to live above a bar 24/7?) More professional inns also provide other services such as restaurants, room service, laundry, armour and weapons cleaning, guards, and maybe a vault for all that treasure.

4) How much do they spend on residence or do you just handwave rent, since domestic costs are nothing to the riches that an adventurer carries around in his pockets?

Handwaving? Riches? Clearly you’ve never played with our DM!!! Numerous times we’ve gone adventuring strictly to pay the rent, and numerous times we’ve ended an adventure with just enough jink to pay for another week.

Prices have varied hugely.

5) Speaking of portals, are there any in that house?

Most sensible planars examine their lodgings minutely for any useful or potentially dangerous portals within it, so it’s fair to assume that so has the landlord, who will charge appropriately – more rent for a portal that allows a warm Elysium breeze into the room, less for one with a portal to the Orcus’ layer of the Abyss (and average for situations like “I know it’s dangerous on the other side, but not what opens it and nobody’s been eaten so far.”)

Most landlords would insist on a hike in rent if they discovered PCs using it... although if the house has a lot of unknown portals in it, the PCs could pay the rent by identifying and scouting them, say... 1 or 2 per month?

6) Do they all live together? Is it reasonable for all these characters to be roommates on top of everything else? Shouldn't they all have their own houses, since they presumably didn't always know each other? Isn't having the party split up for the night annoying and uselessly complicated?

Normally everyone calls kip together, for convenience – and for mutual protection! That said, the PCs often get sick of the sight of each other and several of them have a home away from home (inn, friend, etc) they sleep at now and again. Things tend to break up when we reach higher level too, as people seek their own place.

Actually, in our version of PS, a company was set up by a group of PCs years ago, which specialises in putting adventurers together in compatible groups, and finding them lodgings. A good reason for more eclectic groups to be bunking together.

'Gerzel' wrote:
Starting off anywhere but the Lady's ward...

Actually Lady’s Ward is an excellent location for respectable adventurers. Yes the prices are extortionate but there’s usually a pay off in contacts and reputation, and adventurers are notorious over-spenders especially when just back from a successful job. And as I said above, not having enough jink to pay the landlord is an easy way to send the PCs off on a job – and jobs can get awful interesting when you need to finance a life in Lady’s Ward. The easiest way to get set up in LW would probably be to attract a patron, who provides lodgings in exchange for the added prestige of your reputation.

In my mind, the other pros and cons of living in Lady’s Ward pretty much cancel each other out.

Do pardon the prodigious verbosity of my badinage!

Armoury99's picture
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Sigil PC Residences?

*takes deep breath, posts again*

'Gerzel' wrote:
A nice Dirty Trick to pull on your PCs if they become careless about where they are staying and who they are renting from is to have the landlord ask for a favor.

Another good one is to rob PCs who leave belongings lying around in their rooms (especially in lower class dives), or if they suddenly disappear for days/weeks on an adventure, to have their landlord sell off any gear left behind to recoup missed rent payments.

Having said that, it’s also good to reward characters for spending more and having a good relationship with the landlord/locals - there’s nothing quite so satisfying as sitting on your balcony watching the Aoskan hounds chase stunned burglars around the garden.

Mmm... Maybe we should compile a fleshed out list of potential adventurer kips for Sigil (and the planes) and various lodging-based encounters. Or perhaps that is what the mighty Rhys already had in mind?

Azriael's picture
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Sigil PC Residences?

Quote:
Around lvl 14 PCs may be strong enough to take solid control of a squat in the hive, by fixing it up and actually taking care of the place. By 18 they may be able to start thinking about bribing the right officials to get a legal deed to that squat. To truely buy land on the open market in Sigil you'd need a 20+ level bankroll.
WOW :shock: I think that really depends on who your DM is! Since a lot of campaigns seem to cut off at lvl 20 to avoid the Epic rules this seems a little extreme, especially given that with a bit of hard work your average clerk can realistically aspire to owning a modest apartment in clerks ward before they die. I'd generally say that you could - if you've been saving - afford a reasonable place by about lvl 14, possibly earlier if there's a quest tie-in.

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Azure's picture
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Joined: 2006-05-17
Sigil PC Residences?

PCs and NPCs in my game have a variety of places, tho most live together in "Blue Tower" in the Guildhall Ward, which also serves as the base of their Mercenary Company. The tower was willed to one of the NPCs (the leader of the Merc Co.) by her estranged mother. She gave up all claim to other properties to the Fated in return for a one-year tax amnesty and a business charter. True, I set up Blue Tower in a way to avoid this sort of realistic problem of residence, but since one of the stipulations is that the PCs are at the beck and call of the Merc company, it has its ups and downs (no rent to speak of, but they just took a contract to go to the Abyss.)

other kips:

A mountain monestery just the other side of a portal in the Market
Ward.

A spartan apartment in Git'raban.

A one- room (because all interior walls were removed) apartment in the Festhall district with exactly 3 pieces of funiture: A couch, A hooka, and a gigantic (but mostly empty) vault.

A 5' x 5' cell in the Gatehouse. Locks only from the outside, and including a barmy room-mate, of course.

The streets of the Hive.

A hovel in Glorium.

Gerzel's picture
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Sigil PC Residences?

'Azriael' wrote:
Quote:
Around lvl 14 PCs may be strong enough to take solid control of a squat in the hive, by fixing it up and actually taking care of the place. By 18 they may be able to start thinking about bribing the right officials to get a legal deed to that squat. To truely buy land on the open market in Sigil you'd need a 20+ level bankroll.
WOW :shock: I think that really depends on who your DM is! Since a lot of campaigns seem to cut off at lvl 20 to avoid the Epic rules this seems a little extreme, especially given that with a bit of hard work your average clerk can realistically aspire to owning a modest apartment in clerks ward before they die. I'd generally say that you could - if you've been saving - afford a reasonable place by about lvl 14, possibly earlier if there's a quest tie-in.

Note: That is to own not to rent. Most clerks and workers in Sigil probably either rent their lodgings (as I recall most people do in modern cities). Also keep in mind there is a BIG differance between a clerk coming to someone to take out a loan to buy a place and an adventurer. True PCs have more liquid assets but npc workers have steady dependable income. Also families probably keep a building.

When it comes down to it what I meant was 14 to outright own the property, the land itself. A big differance from owning an appartment.

Armoury99's picture
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Sigil PC Residences?

'Gerzel' wrote:
When it comes down to it what I meant was 14 to outright own the property, the land itself. A big differance from owning an appartment.

Either way, that's a VAST ammount of cash if you're using the average wealth of characters by level as a guide, well outside the price range of a normal person.

In my view, its occupation that determines ownership - most places in Sigil are occupied by the first guy that got in there and managed to lodge the papers at the Hall of Records... or his descendants. Leave a place untended (owned or not) and someone will be in there pretty quick (maybe a good portion of the populace are actually squatters?)

Most adventurers simply don't bother with all this when they can rent - or they just take over a place by whatever method for as long as they need it.

Armoury99's picture
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Sigil PC Residences?

Following on, an interesting question just occured to me:

From the legal/Guvnor prospective, I wonder what makes your house your house? After all, your address can shift and change out of the street, or even out the district.

Just thinking aloud

ripvanwormer's picture
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Sigil PC Residences?

I don't think it's possible to own land in Sigil - the land belongs to the Lady, and in any case it can shift, appear, or disappear overnight.

You can own buildings, though, and it's the buildings that they register in the Hall of Records. Buildings tend to stick around, although new ones occasionally appear without warning and the dabus like to tear down abandoned ones.

Probably the Takers, or whoever's doing their job at the moment, have books that describe a building's distinctive characteristics (three-story Tudor mansion divided into nine seperate hovels, ironmaw wainscoting, first step is broken, labeled 12389). Yeah, each building should have a number, too.

But there could still be problems with the dabus building identical buildings (including the number and the broken step) for inscrutible reasons of their own. That's part of the fun of Sigil.

Armoury99's picture
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Sigil PC Residences?

'ripvanwormer' wrote:
Probably the Takers, or whoever's doing their job at the moment, have books that describe a building's distinctive characteristics (three-story Tudor mansion divided into nine seperate hovels, ironmaw wainscoting, first step is broken, labeled 12389). Yeah, each building should have a number too.

But there could still be problems with the dabus building identical buildings (including the number and the broken step) for inscrutible reasons of their own. That's part of the fun of Sigil.

Maybe major building contracts have an accopmanying piece of artwork (say, a detailed painting) that shows the building, and perhaps the owner too?

Plenty of scope for stealing/forging false pictures in order to get your paws on the property itself... I'm sure there are professions who doctor any descriptive contracts/paintings to try and get themselves a better house!

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