Sigil or Sigil?

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Thu, 2004-08-12 17:17

#1

Sarrin

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Sigil or Sigil?

[System Admin Note: Posts drawn from Mini's thread at /forums/viewtopic.php?p=1571 . Subject strayed far enough for a new thread.]

omg Lotus_Eater, how much did you pay for those minis? anything over $3000 and you got ripped off... lol

"Clueless" wrote:

Sigil: "Si - gull", where the Si- is pronounced much like the ci- in city, and the -gil is pronounced like gull. (Si-jell, or sid-jell is not the correct prnounciation.)

I wish i knew more about the Karris character, but I'll see what I can fish up for you. Rhys is a tiefling, yes.

are you sure clueless? I always pronounced it as the english word, with the soft g as in 'sih-jil'.[/url]

Sat, 2004-08-14 04:20

#2

richard_k

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Sigil or Sigil?

Yep its pronounced Si-gull, if u have Planescape Torment get yourself mazed and the nameless one says "Where did "Si-Gull" go". I always thought it was sih-jel myself but well u learn something new each day.

Sat, 2004-08-14 17:46

(Reply to #2) #3

Sarrin

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Sigil or Sigil?

actually, why not just write it off as an accent thing? people whose native languages and accents tend to use soft g's (elves, sprites, celestials, air spirits, water spirits are exsamples of the ones I would expect) would probably pronounce it si-jill, whereas people with accents or native languages are hasher or more glottal (I'm thinking dragons, demons, devils, earth elementals, etc) would probably use a hard g.

Sun, 2004-08-15 04:59

(Reply to #3) #4

Southern_Oracle

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Sigil or Sigil?

You can't write Sigil's pronunciation off as an "accent thing" because of the following quote from Sigil and Beyond in the Planescape boxed set:

Quote:

We can excuse the fact that you slaughtered two yugoloths before you realized where you were, Outsider, but you pronounced the name of our fair city "Sijil," not "Sigil," and there can be no excuse for that! -- Her Honor Rastina Tollin of the Guvners

Sun, 2004-08-15 12:17

(Reply to #4) #5

Sarrin

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Sigil or Sigil?

interesting. I stand corrected.

Sat, 2004-08-21 01:05

(Reply to #5) #6

rustcannon

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Sigil or Sigil?

i found shemi's mini for a dollar at gencon today. some chaosmen also. the auction here also had some planescape minis. found the "powers of conflict" boxed minis set for $20.

Sat, 2004-08-21 10:43

(Reply to #6) #7

Clueless

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Sigil or Sigil?

"Southern_Oracle" wrote:

You can't write Sigil's pronunciation off as an "accent thing" because of the following quote from Sigil and Beyond in the Planescape boxed set:

Quote:

We can excuse the fact that you slaughtered two yugoloths before you realized where you were, Outsider, but you pronounced the name of our fair city "Sijil," not "Sigil," and there can be no excuse for that! -- Her Honor Rastina Tollin of the Guvners

*chuckle* I'd forgotten about that - nice t' see ya here Southern I wasn't sure if you were lurking or not.

Sat, 2004-08-21 11:29

(Reply to #7) #8

Southern_Oracle

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Sigil or Sigil?

Yeah, I'm lurking. I don't usually have much to say, but occasionally my aged brain remembers something.

Mon, 2004-08-23 19:28

(Reply to #8) #9

Krypter

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Sigil or Sigil?

Actually, Sarrin is correct. Dictionary definition:

(sijel, sigil) A seal; a signet.
A sign or an image considered magical.

Either pronounciation is correct, but since 'sijel' is first in the definition it can be considered 'more correct'. The Lady of Pain image on all the books can be considered a sigil.

That accent idea is good too. Anything that makes monsters more original is in the planescape tradition.

Tue, 2004-08-24 00:18

(Reply to #9) #10

Bob the Efreet

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Sigil or Sigil?

The word 'sigil' can be pronounced either way (I usually use 'sijel' to distinguish from the city), but according to Planescape, the city Sigil is with a hard g. And they're touchy about it, too.

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Tue, 2004-08-24 08:13

(Reply to #10) #11

Clueless

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Sigil or Sigil?

Aka: There may be 2 ways to pronounce it for the seal. But there's only *one* way to pronounce it for the city.

For an equilivant - think of how people react to mispronouncing their name. You may know the name can be pronounced 2 ways - but the person you're addressing will only answer to *one*.

Wed, 2004-08-25 14:12

(Reply to #11) #12

Krypter

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Sigil or Sigil?

No, you can pronounce it either way. You're basing your beliefs on one quote in one book by an imaginary character who may or may not be wrong (a Guvner at that!). Nowhere do the PS designers say you have to pronounce it with a hard 'g'.

Since the city is called Sigil, it is a reference to the English word sigil, otherwise they would have called it Si'gil or Sigel. If you're using English words, you have to use their accepted meaning and pronounciation.

And cities do have differing pronounciations. My home town is pronounced three (slightly) different ways by people living there!

Wed, 2004-08-25 16:01

(Reply to #12) #13

Southern_Oracle

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Sigil or Sigil?

No one is arguing there are multiple pronunciations for the word "sigil." And yes, people do pronounce proper names several different ways as well. However, it is generally accepted that natives of the city prefer the pronunciation "SIH-gul" over any other...of course, you can rule whatever you want for your campaign.

Wed, 2004-08-25 17:03

(Reply to #13) #14

Clueless

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Sigil or Sigil?

I'm reminded of a place near where I live (relatively, if you count within the same part of the US as 'near'), called Mobile, Alabama. Folks there can get downright *snippy* if you misprounounce the name of the city. And since they live there - I'd say they've got the right to decide the 'right' way to say it.

Wed, 2004-08-25 18:12

(Reply to #14) #15

Tevish Szat

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Sigil or Sigil?

Pronouncing Sigil with a soft G is like pronouncing the 's' on Illinois. It ticks off the locals.

Mon, 2004-10-18 15:47

(Reply to #15) #16

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Sigil or Sigil?

Hmm..I'm a german, so the hard g comes quite naturally to me, but that u? Sih-gul, I would rather say Sih-gihl...but I guess for a clueless there would be one rule regarding this: "When in Sigil, do as the Cagers do." (hmm..should be three Rules, shouldn't it? )[/b]

Tue, 2004-10-19 20:15

(Reply to #16) #17

Kaelyn

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Sigil or Sigil?

"Krypter" wrote:

No, you can pronounce it either way. You're basing your beliefs on one quote in one book by an imaginary character who may or may not be wrong (a Guvner at that!). Nowhere do the PS designers say you have to pronounce it with a hard 'g'.

Zeb Cook said in an interview that he wasn't aware that the word had two pronunciations (with 'sijil" more common) initially, then he found out, and the Guvner quote quoted above is a joking reference to that. He says he still prefers "Sigull."

I prefer "sijil," personally, and it's awkward for me to change.

Of course I've also been calling tieflings "tife-lings," and I recently discovered that that wasn't right (it's "teef-lings.")

Tue, 2004-10-19 20:19

(Reply to #17) #18

Kaelyn

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Sigil or Sigil?

"Ri-irek" wrote:

Hmm..I'm a german, so the hard g comes quite naturally to me, but that u? Sih-gul, I would rather say Sih-gihl...but I guess for a clueless there would be one rule regarding this: "When in Sigil, do as the Cagers do." (hmm..should be three Rules, shouldn't it?

)[/b]

It's an American accent thing, I think, more than a Cager thing. I think "Sih-gihl" is more correct - the "gull" is just from shortening it so it becomes "Siggle" - omiting the final vowel.

I have, at times, tried pronouncing it "SigEEL."

Wed, 2004-10-20 13:30

(Reply to #18) #19

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Sigil or Sigil?

Quote:

Of course I've also been calling tieflings "tife-lings," and I recently discovered that that wasn't right (it's "teef-lings.")

Yep, "tief" is a german word, meaning "deep", as in a "deep gorge", or "the water is deep" -> the Abyss (a bottomless place)

Sat, 2004-10-23 12:53

(Reply to #19) #20

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Sigil or Sigil?

You can pronounce it "Si-jil" all you want, but you'll always stand out as a clueless while yer in the city. Locals know better and would never pronounce it Si-jil.

Just like Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger calling our state Caleeeforneeeia. Sure he can pronounce it like that, but he constantly gets ridiculed for it.

And it's just my opinion, but I really doubt the Lady named her city after the definition meaning "seal". It's the "City of Doors", not the "City of Seals". And I've never heard it called "The Signet" before. Why would she care about it's definition? That's like saying my name is Dick so therefor, since the dictionary refers to something else, then that's what I'm named after. So I'd say she knows how it's supposed to be pronounced. And if it was supposed to be prounounced "Si-jil" and right off the bat, the locals start calling it "Si-gil"...I'd think she'd start flaying people out of annoyance.

Ya know you're a Clueless when: you pronounce it "Si-jil".

Sat, 2004-10-23 17:11

(Reply to #20) #21

Kaelyn

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Sigil or Sigil?

"Cyriss" wrote:

And it's just my opinion, but I really doubt the Lady named her city after the definition meaning "seal". It's the "City of Doors", not the "City of Seals". And I've never heard it called "The Signet" before.

It's "sigil" as in glyph or rune. The dabus speak in glyphs, and the Sigil Spell is a massive glyph carved into the city's terrain. The city is a circular glyph, one of the central runes in the language which is the multiverse.

Although, the Lady of Pain certainly seals the portals. All of them are locked, remember, unless you have a key. Perhaps the city is the seal that prevents the area from being nothing but a massive open door to everywhere.

Either pronunciation is okay. The "Siggle" thing is mostly just Zeb Cook's self-deprecating joke. Though some native Cagers might get touchy about it, remember that Sigil is a city of immigrants, with inhabitants from all across the multiverse. For most, the Cage isn't a place you're from; it's a place you go to.

Sun, 2004-10-31 18:28

(Reply to #21) #22

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Sigil or Sigil?

You know, with the guvners being the way they are, it is possible that the members who was quoted as objecting to someone's pronunciation of Sigil may have been basing his objections on an unsubstantiated linguistic theory of his own creation. Other berks in the Cage may just think he's barmy for using a hard "g" in the name...

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