Shadowrunners in Planescape?

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sciborg2's picture
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Shadowrunners in Planescape?

Shadowrunners, from the Shadowrun setting, are operatives that perform clandestine operations.

While you might need something to keep you safe from detection (perhaps something your blackmailing employers attach to your spine) this seems like an interesting option for planar games (and possibly worth exploring in the zine).

I think Clueless mentioned she runs games this way, and I'm curious if others have and the campaigns/one-shots involved or just have some ideas to toss out about the subject.

I can see sneaking into the realm of one power on behalf of another, aiding or curtailing magical research in the name of Planar Consortium profits, and all kinds of double dealing between the factions...

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Zimrazim's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

I think D&D 1e had a spell called "False seeing" or "False vision" or something like that. Essentially it was a reversed True Seeing spell that could counter True Seeing. An excellent effect for such a character/party to invest in (especially once you consider how many beings in Planescape have it as an at-will ability).

Mechanically, Eberron changelings would be extremely well-suited to a party of this type. Eye-wink

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Hyena of Ice's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

The only way to avoid being detected by a power while sneaking into its realm is if you have an artifact made by a higher ranking power...

sciborg2's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

Actually, recalling Unhallowed Ground, I'm a little curious about this. There seem to be black market operations in several realms. Will quote from the book in a bit.

I never really liked the power designations in canon, and not sure if they still apply in PF or 4e. I think while some gods are usually on top of the hierarchy there will be times when this isn't the case:

Hypnos is said to have put Zeus to sleep for a time, and Osiris is said to have had beings in his realm that would make even Ra shudder. Vayu, though thought by most to be under the Vishnu/Shiva/Brahma trinity, almost suffocated the three realms when the gods severely wounded his son Hanuman.

Mask, in the novels at least, was capable of hiding things from the other powers of Toril. Heh, I could see Mask sponsoring a lot of Shadowrun activities in the planes...

On that note, setting up assassination attempts:

http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/front-page10707.php

Well, this is against the PCs but still good advice.

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Hyena of Ice's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

Yes, but bear in mind that powers are not nearly as strong when outside of their realms than they are while within it. Even quasipowers are impossible to surprise when within their dominions (unless you have a major artifact capable of masking your presence of course)

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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

I get that, but the whole thing doesn't sit well with me. Gods of illusion, assassination, thievery, and deception among others should be able to provide items that let you sneak into another god's realm, even if that god is a greater power.

Mind you, not arguing canon - defer to you there.

I think a Shadowrunner isn't going to run off to spy on gods, and even at higher levels such missions should be rear. There's enough intrigue in Sigil for such groups to be around for awhile.

One lower to mid level campaign that might be interesting is a wealthy merchant hiring you to sabotage a growing sect in the Hive to keep it from expanding to the point where they challenge the Lady. The factol of the sect is the merchant's child and your work keeps him from being Mazed or Flayed.

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Zimrazim's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

The ready availability of divinatory abilities is an "issue" with D&D game mechanics, at least in earlier editions. (I don't even have the 4e rules, so I'm not sure if it's still the case with those.) All sorts of divination effects are available, and depending on the campaign, may be absolutely commonplace. All sorts of potential plotlines are potentially ruined by something as simple as a detect evil or detect lie spell -- and true seeing is that much worse. Anyway, in a setting with powerful, commonplace access to divination abilities, infiltration is that much harder to accomplish.

Of course, in a low-magic campaign it's probably going to be a lot easier.

Anyway, the idea that "No, you don't get to kill a deity. EVER." is something that came into fashion in Planescape, but wasn't necessarily always the case before that. I would guess that the "No, you don't get to kill a deity" thing came about because the PS designers were trying hard to make absolutely clear that PS is not as hack-and-slash a setting as many other D&D settings (particularly those prior to Planescape) tended to be. It's a major Planescape trope that there's always something that's more powerful than your sword, no matter how many pluses it has.

If an individual DM wants a deity to be killable by mortals (or spied on by them, or whatever), I have no problem with that.

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BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Hyena of Ice's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

To be fair, there were only a few powers and quasipowers who were killable in previous editions (namely Lolth, who only had 66 HP) Pazuzu and the other archfiends IIRC still had around 200+ HP, and in addition to spell-like abilities could also use psionics.

That said, deities and quasideities have been impossible to kill on their home plane or dominion ever since the 1E Deities & Demigods (or at least the 1E Manual of the Planes). 1E MotP flat out says that the Archomentals have the abilities of demipowers while on their native plane. The exception to this IIRC was Lolth, but technically (by 3x rules) the form fought in 1E was merely her avatar or an aspect.

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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

I'm really digging the idea of a Shadowrun'esque game set in the planes. You could get around the "Gods see through everything" problem by introducing a campaign-specific magical items that hides a possessor from the sight of any power. Maybe they were created by the Athar or by a god of Trickery/Chaos and then distributed (or stolen and dispersed). If the Athar were the ones that created the item, you can be sure they're an extinct faction by the start of the campaign since every power likely would come down on them like a hammer (though, they could then make for really interesting Mr. Johnson-type characters). Possessing one would probably be cause enough to have all the local religious types start crying for your head.

Hyena of Ice's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

Even more interesting: an artifact created by a powerful Ur-Priest that uses the deity's own powers against them to fool their divination abilities.

sciborg2's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

Given the varied factions that, to me, make these kinds of games interesting, I suggest incorporating all these ideas. I never liked the alignment restrictions on Ur-priests, as they are perfect for the Athar.

One thing I think should be stressed when doing wetwork in a deity's realm is that whatever artifact is given it is delicate. Perhaps it is a delicate mesh of flowers plaited together into armor, or a living shoot from some divine World Tree that you have to keep alive and can't throw into a portable hole.

OTOH, if someone does notice you they shouldn't be able to just call down the wrath of their deity too easily unless the PCs do something really stupid.

Though I do think a sneaky trip to Malsheem would be all kinds of fun...another option for these missions is being allowed in by one faction. For example, perhaps an ultroloth or even a Baern has its own designs on Khin-Oin.

Come to think of it, Rip's Twin Furnaces is an excellent take on this kinda thing:

/060708/twin-furnaces

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Hyena of Ice's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

I never liked the alignment restrictions on Ur-priests, as they are perfect for the Athar.

Ur-Priests steal power from other beings-- beings which they hate. I think alignment restrictions are quite appropriate. I agree that the PrC is appropriate for Athar, but not all Athar would resort to stealing power from other beings. I would at the very least restrict the class to non-lawful characters like the rogue class, and considering that too many Ur-Priests to a single demi-power can actually kill it, I think a non-good alignment is also appropriate (I'd also bar it to true neutral characters)

sciborg2's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

Hmmm. Perhaps I need a new PrC or Class for my good Athar that accomplishes something similar. Though I could see a group of good Athar attempting to drain the life of a demipower, especially an evil one.

Alignment for me works best when it falters as I enjoy the dichotomy of a Multiverse of supposedly objective morality crashing against the subjective values of its residents...

Looking more at the Shadowrunners, one mission that might be interesting is trying to pass as members of the Celestial Bureaucracy, especially if we tie in the idea of that pantheon possessing a trans-planar pathway.

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Hyena of Ice's picture
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Re: Shadowrunners in Planescape?

Man, where's Ripvanwormer? This board is so quiet without him...

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