Does anyone have that article in Dragon magazine from WAYYYYYY back that tells how Asmodeus became ruler of Baator? I heard that he overthrew an ancient fiend calling himself "Satan" or "Lucifer", but whatever happened to the old fiend? Was he killed outright, or might he still be out there somewhere plotting revenge? (I assume that despite the names, that the fiend has no connection to the real-world devil of the same name...)
"Satan" and "Lucifer" in the Nine Hells
Sat, 2007-06-16 11:26
#1
"Satan" and "Lucifer" in the Nine Hells
Sat, 2007-06-16 14:14
#3
"Satan" and "Lucifer" in the Nine Hells
Was he killed outright, or might he still be out there somewhere plotting revenge? (I assume that despite the names, that the fiend has no connection to the real-world devil of the same name...)
No, he was explicitly connected to the real-world devil of the same name. In fact, the history of Hell in that issue was explicitly connected with the history of the real world. Satan fell from Heaven sometime during the period when Babylon held the Jewish nation captive, and reigned until Medieval times. When Baalzebul overthrew Satan, he promised more freedom for the other devils. The result was a bloodless coup, and on Earth, the Renaissance began. Satan left Hell for parts unknown, and Belial left with him (Belial secretly retaining the loyalty of Hell's legions). A few centuries later, it became clear that Baalzebul didn't have enough political clout to effectively run Hell - he owed too much to those who had supported his coup, and order broke down. Asmodeus, with Gargauth/Astaroth on his side, staged another bloodless coup, granting Baalzebul control of two layers (Maladomini and Malbolge) but taking a firmer control of Hell. In the real world, the Industrial Revolution began, with all the genocide and world wars that would follow. Gargauth was made ambassador to the United States of America.
Yes, Satan's still around. Nobody killed him. He's not really plotting revenge, especially; he doesn't seem interested in running Hell anymore.
Sat, 2007-06-16 17:41
#4
"Satan" and "Lucifer" in the Nine Hells
Wasn't that an issue pretty much viewed by most as a joke issue or non-canonical?
Sat, 2007-06-16 18:34
#5
"Satan" and "Lucifer" in the Nine Hells
Wasn't that an issue pretty much viewed by most as a joke issue or non-canonical?
The article was explicitly non-canonical, according to the first sentence:
"(Author’s note: The following article cannot be considered the official
doctrine of either Advanced Dungeons and Dragons or the Roman
Catholic Church."
It's pretty extremely incompatible with the history of Baator as it later developed. It's even incompatible with the 1st edition MMII, since it claims that Belial is no longer a ruler of Hell and that only the second, fifth, sixth, seventh, and ninth layers have single rulers. It says the other layers are each ruled by multiple rulers.
And, I mean, it claims Asmodeus has only been in charge for 100 years or so. Here's the quote, because it's delicious:
"Thus it was that Asmodeus became Lord of Hell. Shortly thereafter,
the “War to End All Wars” was fought, and then came Mussolini
and Hitler, the death camps and purges, the A-bomb and other atrocities
in a war that claimed more than 15 million lives in battle and countless
other lives. One could say that Asmodeus has had some success."
This was all in Dragon #28, by the way. The author was Alexander Van Thorn.
The whole point of it was to reconcile real-world Christian and occult lore with the 1e Monster Manual I. It's not in any way canon.
Mon, 2007-07-02 20:08
#6
"Satan" and "Lucifer" in the Nine Hells
According to A Guide to Hell (not sure how cannonical that tome is since it does delve into the creation of the multiverse) Asmodeus has always ruled over the Hells. Every so often he arranges some political intrigue/shadow war to arrange his dethronement under one guise and rise to power as another.
Even if it is not true, that is certainly a rumor that Asmodeus would spread to keep anyone with eyes on the throne wondering just how old/powerful/manipulative he really is.
Tue, 2007-07-03 00:03
#7
"Satan" and "Lucifer" in the Nine Hells
The story exists in at least one 3E D&D book:
Book of Vile Darkness (pg. 143)
Archdevils
The greatest of all archdevils is Asmodeus, who rules over all of them from the bottom of the Pit itself. He has controlled the Hells for as long as histories have been recorded, although there are rumors of even older lords of the Pit, with names such as Satan and Lucifer. These beings, however, are long gone now.
-420
Wed, 2007-07-04 10:01
#8
"Satan" and "Lucifer" in the Nine Hells
The story exists in at least one 3E D&D book:
Archdevils
The greatest of all archdevils is Asmodeus, who rules over all of them from the bottom of the Pit itself. He has controlled the Hells for as long as histories have been recorded, although there are rumors of even older lords of the Pit, with names such as Satan and Lucifer. These beings, however, are long gone now.
Book of Vile Darkness (pg. 143)
Archdevils
The greatest of all archdevils is Asmodeus, who rules over all of them from the bottom of the Pit itself. He has controlled the Hells for as long as histories have been recorded, although there are rumors of even older lords of the Pit, with names such as Satan and Lucifer. These beings, however, are long gone now.
-420
As I recall, that was Monte Cook making a tongue-in-cheek reference to that old 'Politics of Hell' article. Otherwise though, none of the serious attempts to detail Baator's prehistory have included a Satan or Lucifer (except for Lucifer being an alternate name of Beherit, the now dead predecessor of Baalzebul as Lord of the 7th).
Mon, 2007-07-09 12:06
#9
"Satan" and "Lucifer" in the Nine Hells
If anyone's seen the Tome of Horrors books by Necromancer Games, Lucifer and his gang appears there. It states that he was usurped by Asmodeus and banished from the Nine Hells. He created his own Demiplane, Infernus, and is slowly plotting his revenge.
I know it's not canon, hell it's not even by Wizards of the Coast, but I rather like the idea and have adapted it for my Planescape games.
Visit community.dicefreaks.com, thera is a good story for that.