Salt Site - Looking for suggestions

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Center of All's picture
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factotums
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Salt Site - Looking for suggestions

Looking for a bit of feedback before I throw this up into the PW database for better viewing. Let me know what you all think about it. Also, special thanks to Primus for the suggestion I needed to develop this site.

Special thanks to Primus for the idea that sparked the foundation of this planar site.

Drizzle

“Between the Saline Sea and the Stinging Storm, but on the edge of Core Salt is an area that makes many berks go addle-coved trying to figure it out. It’s a place where Salt creates water instead of devouring it. It’s a place covered in grey rainclouds, with an endless shower of light, cool rain. The place is called Drizzle because the water-sucking nature of Salt usually drinks up the rain before it can become much more than just a light drizzle. On occasion, a torrent of rain escapes the cloudy sky above, but it’s mostly just a gentle shower.

“It’s a nice place to escape to for a little bit of a haven from the rest of the arid climate of Salt. The rain’s briny, like any water found on the plane, but it’s cool and wet, and sometimes a body just needs to get into humid air. Drizzle’s got a bit of that – enough to make it a noticeable break from the rest of the quasiplane.

“The place is caused by a vortex to the quasiplane of Steam that’s somehow broken into Salt. It’s certainly possible for the vortex to be used by travelers to escape from Salt, but there’s the problem of getting there. The vortex is way up in the sky – hence the cloudy scene. If a cutter can fly, he’s got a good chance of finding the vortex and escaping to Steam.

“The vortex causes Steam to continually pour into the air above. Salt blows in from the nearby Stinging Storm, flying into the steam cloud. The salt crystals give the steam something to condense on and the result is rain. Like I said, it’s mostly a light rain, something of a mix between a drizzle and a fog. Sometimes a nice downpour falls, though. I think the dark behind this is that the vortex lets in larger and smaller amounts of steam through, and sometimes it’s more than the dehydrating nature of the plane can handle quickly.

“The facets seem to hate this place. More often than not, a berk coming through here is likely to encounter a few of the living salt creatures. I’d say that they’re more concerned with their war on Water at the Saline Sea than they are with this Steam pocket. Because of that, they don’t have enough here to keep the Steam under control. Some chant goes that since the facets aren’t trying to attack this place quite as much, that the Drizzle is expanding slowly across the plane. It’s not a long shot. While salt mephits and quasielementals are rare here, I’ve encountered a couple steam mephits – and even a steam animental once -- before while traveling through Drizzle. It leaves me to wonder if the place is Steam’s attempt to wage war on Salt, much as the facets are combating Water.

“I haven’t found the vortex on the Steam side yet, nor have I found anyone who really knows of it. I’d like to know if it’s two-way, and if it’s created a Salt pocket on the other side. Still, if a body’s on Salt and stays peery, he’ll find the place to be a nice spot to take a breather.”

-- Talis Sagi, Sensate and planar explorer

Again, looking for a bit of feedback and suggestions before I post it up to the actual site. Let me know what you think!

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Krypter's picture
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Salt Site - Looking for suggestions

I've always wondered how the pure elemental planes refresh themselves, what with all those portals, vortices, border regions and everything continually invading each other's territories. Given that the multiverse has been and will be around for a very long, it seems as if the elemental planes will eventually resemble the chunky soup of Limbo. Or perhaps the Negative and Positive planes will eat everything else?

Would this purifying force perhaps emanate from pseudo-powers such as Istishia on Water and her counterparts on Fire, Earth and Air?

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Salt Site - Looking for suggestions

I was under the impression that was what the core regions of the elemental planes were about.

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"Krypter" wrote:
Given that the multiverse has been and will be around for a very long, it seems as if the elemental planes will eventually resemble the chunky soup of Limbo.

That's what the Doomguard believe, and hope for, and in some cases it's a process they attempt to speed up with their entropes.

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"Emperor Xan" wrote:
I was under the impression that was what the core regions of the elemental planes were about.

Yes, but what is the exact process by which the pure element is formed? Does it emanate from the Elemental Lords themselves, does it appear from some kind of Source akin to what the Godsmen worship, or maybe it's collected by unknown agents from across the Inner Planes?

Perhaps the spirit essence of the Outer Planes is transmuted into matter by the Elemental Lords?

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Are the Elemental Planes not infinite in nature?

I always thought that the elements were the absolute substances (therefore completely independant) from which the Prima was constructed. If they are true substances, they need not have a source; they are the most basic things that exist.

However, here Leibniz' theory about monads (or whatever it may be in English) is very interesting. Leibniz states that extended matter can never be its own substance (and that therefore, it cannot be independant). He ascribes the existence of matter to the monads, metaphysical (or even mental or spiritual) points that somehow radiate the pysical reality we observe.* In other words: Outer Planes as a source for the Inner Planes.

Alternatively I like the idea that in the centre of the spherical-represented Inners lies a point of absolute being, one that even transcends the creative powers of the Positive energy plane and is beyond the destruction of the Negative. Because spheres are nice, and all, but what lies at the centre?

*= Perhaps a bit vague, or even incorrect. Metaphysics is a bitch. Try looking it up somewhere.

Here's what the Wikipedia has to say about Monads:

Quote:
His [Leibniz'] philosophical contribution to metaphysics is based on the Monadology, which introduces Monads as "substantial forms of being", which are akin to spiritual atoms, eternal, indecomposable, individual, following their own laws, not interacting ("windowless") but each reflecting the whole universe in pre-established harmony (a historically noteworthy expression of panpsychism). In the way sketched above the notion of a monad solves the problem of the interaction of mind and matter that arises in René Descartes' system, as well as the individuation that seems problematic in Baruch Spinoza's system, which represents individual creatures as mere accidental modifications of the one and only substance.

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"Elethíus" wrote:
However, here Leibniz' theory about monads (or whatever it may be in English) is very interesting.

They're called monads in English, too.

Note that the celestials associated with the Inner Planes are called monadic devas.

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Yes, that's exactly what I had forgotten. Thanks, Elethius. Leibniz's and Spinoza's metaphysics has some potential for the planes. Sorry to semi-hijack your topic C-of-A, but it does have some bearing on your idea about warring elemental planes invading each other. According to Leibniz all physicality (matter) can only be actual through the mediation of God. Taken in a Planescape framework, that would mean that Powers on the Outer Planes are interfering with the Inner Planes, perhaps 'confusing' the monads. Which powers might those be?

Monadology
"51. But in simple substances the influence of one Monad upon another is only ideal, and it can have its effect only through the mediation of God, in so far as in the ideas of God any Monad rightly claims that God, in regulating the others from the beginning of things, should have regard to it. For since one created Monad cannot have any physical influence upon the inner being of another, it is only by this means that the one can be dependent upon the other."

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"Krypter" wrote:
Taken in a Planescape framework, that would mean that Powers on the Outer Planes are interfering with the Inner Planes, perhaps 'confusing' the monads. Which powers might those be?

I think I'll hae to go with the Athar on this one. The Gods aren't almighty. Perhaps there is some kind of meta-deity, an übergod that does these things. Perhaps it is the Great Unknown of the Athar.

Also, I do not think Leibniz' Monadology is really suitable for Planescape. Though any theory can be correct in Planescape, I fail to see how Leibniz' harmonic thinking can allow something as chaos (at least, the chaos in the Planescape Multiverse). Then again, that could also be because I'm really attracted to the chaotic side of the setting.

In other news: What the bloody hell? Did Her Serenity just blink/stare at me? Creepy.

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"Krypter" wrote:
According to Leibniz all physicality (matter) can only be actual through the mediation of God.

The monadic devas would probably agree with that premise. They might even argue that they are the mediation of the Powers.

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"Elethíus" wrote:
In other news: What the bloody hell? Did Her Serenity just blink/stare at me? Creepy.

... *SNICKER*

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"Clueless" wrote:
"Elethíus" wrote:
In other news: What the bloody hell? Did Her Serenity just blink/stare at me? Creepy.

... *SNICKER*

I don't see anything. <chortle> You must be seeing things, El. Too much coffee? Sticking out tongue

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"Krypter" wrote:
"Emperor Xan" wrote:
I was under the impression that was what the core regions of the elemental planes were about.

Yes, but what is the exact process by which the pure element is formed? Does it emanate from the Elemental Lords themselves, does it appear from some kind of Source akin to what the Godsmen worship, or maybe it's collected by unknown agents from across the Inner Planes?

Perhaps the spirit essence of the Outer Planes is transmuted into matter by the Elemental Lords?

I don't believe that was ever covered in the Inner Planes book. I think the exact mechanism of how the planes maintain pure cores was left to the DM. I always thought that the infinite size of the core and all regions surrounding it were proof that they were unable to mix beyond a certain point since there would always be infinitely more material.

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Yes, it's up to the DM, and that's why we're having fun speculating about it here. I wouldn't bring infinities into this. Infinite bodies couldn't possible mix, and yet we have the border regions (aka Para- and Quasi-elemental planes). There's obviously a finite core or Source somewhere, and if these monads do exist then any interplanar war would consider them to be the top prize. If Salt is penetrating into water it would be aiming its tendrils at the Pure Water Monad. I wonder if the Monadic Devas are supposed to act as guardians of the monads? Would they fight each other? Doubtful, them being Good and all. Perhaps the fact that a host of devas guards each Monad is the reason the Inner Planes have not melded together, and none has managed to dominate the other despite the machinations of the evil Archomentals.

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"Krypter" wrote:
I don't see anything. <chortle> You must be seeing things, El. Too much coffee? Sticking out tongue

Meh, must be a 'loth conspiracy, then. Again.

"Krypter" wrote:
I wouldn't bring infinities into this. Infinite bodies couldn't possible mix, and yet we have the border regions (aka Para- and Quasi-elemental planes). There's obviously a finite core or Source somewhere[...]

I disagree. That a body is infinite does not mean that it cannot have finite components. An infinitly long table can have a hole in it. As do most layers of the Outer Planes. A hole in an Inner Plane just has to have more dimensions then the previously mentioned.

That's how I have always considered the border planes; they are dimensional breaches where the pure elements mix.

Also, why do the Inner Planes need a finite core? If a Monad (or Monads; according to Leibniz we cannot know how many Monads consitute what we perceive, like Kant's Dingen an Sich) is the source of an Inner Plane, that Monad is still metaphysical. Perhaps it is something extraplanar (and, please, no Far Realming this time). But this does not mean that it is finite. On the contrary, are not the Monads infinite in nature? Granted, if the arrangment of Monads is distorted so that their "projections" (into the visible, material world) change, it can be possible that the Inner Planes would change. Perhaps that the border regions in the Inners are disturbances in the Monads otherwise harmonic structure.

Wait, there the Lady goes again! No, wait! I haven't done anything wrong! I didn't even read the poem about Dolo-ack! *Mazed*

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AGHH i dont know any of you, where am i, and why am i in this handbasket?

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*Stumbles out of a random alley.*

"Huh, that was weird."

Anyway, the whole concept of the Monads forming a harmonious constellation got me thinking. What if the Monads exist on an extraplanar level similar to that of the Far Realms?

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the Far Realms. Perhaps it's because I never really got in contact with anything Lovecraftian. I've seen some people who tend to involve it in every known planar mystery. Then again, there are people who involve the 'loth in every possible scheme and conspiracy. Ah, well, no accounting for taste, I guess.

However, the concept of a reality so alien, that the mere concepts are ungraspable to berks from the normal multiverse is an interesting idea. Perhaps the Monads exist somewhere were everything, opposite to the madness of the Far Realms, seems so make sense. Not that a body knows how, on the contrary: the realm would be beyond the berk's mind in every conceivable way, though not as disturbing as the Far Realms. No, the polar opposite (because that is what it basically would be) to the Realms would be calming, adapting the 'environment' to the berk who's entered it (where the denizens of the Far Realm have the tendancy to infiltrate and alter a body (I really liked this article that contains a possible and, might I add, quite fascinating explanation to the existence and origins of the Illithid)). Not that this adapatation would be anything like the choas-shaping trait possessed by Limbo. No, the 'plane' (let's call it the Structure Within from now on) would restructurize the environment to create the most harmonious surroundings possible. Berks would have no control over it whatsoever, and they might not even have control of them selves after entering; they might even become one with the existing harmony, one that is evil nor good. One that simply is.

Unlike the Far Realms, where everything seems a maddening mass of everything and nothing, a body would be able to sense every individual particle around him, kicking the senses of awareness up a few levels. Along with these senses would come something of a sense of precognition, of knowing what will happen when a even a single particle would move, of knowing every single event that would follow from a single movement. However, the very nature of Structure Within would prevent a body from using free will to exert this possibly devestating power. If any creatures would inhabit the Structure Withing, I do not know, nor do I care to speculate at this point. Perhaps the very particles are alive and aware.

But I have been ranting for far too long now. Sleep is catching up.

And slap me if this sounds too Hardheady.

G'night.

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intresting idea. But if the Far realm is outside the multiverse, and this new place is its polar opposite, would that mean its at its very center?

that would mean its not only in sigil, that it would be in the open space the ring revolves around. maybe even as a single point so small no one can see it. But merely passing through it takes you too it. It would have to be bigger than it would seem.
Like a bag oh holdin, only it overlaps with its own extradimensional space.

im not even sure if what I just said made sense.

Quote:
No, the 'plane' (let's call it the Structure Within from now on) would restructurize the environment to create the most harmonious surroundings possible. Berks would have no control over it whatsoever, and they might not even have control of them selves after entering; they might even become one with the existing harmony, one that is evil nor good. One that simply is.

so, not happy, not sad, just comfortable?

if its so neutral, would the Rilmani have an intrest in it?

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"Fidrikon" wrote:
intresting idea. But if the Far realm is outside the multiverse, and this new place is its polar opposite, would that mean its at its very center?

I would think of it more as being inside, rather then being at the centre. This might be somewhat difficult to comprehend, but comparing to the normal multiverse, the Structure would have no size at all, being on a completely different level of existence.

I do not considers Sigil to be the actual centre of the Multiverse. No such thing, berk, not of every plane is infinite in size. Sigil is different. Besides the fact that it's finite in size, it's cut off from the rest of the Planes (besides the Lady's portals, of course).

"Fidrikon" wrote:
so, not happy, not sad, just comfortable?

if its so neutral, would the Rilmani have an intrest in it?

Not really. The Construct would be quite law-flavoured, just as the Far Realms tend towards being chaotic (least to the normal mind) A being in the Construct would have a complete understanding of the laws therein, and the effects it has on the multiverse.

Or something like that. I was a little sleepy when I wrote it, and I just typed everything that popped into my head.

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