Salaries in Sigil

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Smeazel's picture
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Salaries in Sigil

While I was preparing some information for my Planescape campaign, a question struck me. All right, after the Faction War, the dabus took over as judges for a while, but after a year or so made it clear that other qualified judges were welcome to return to their positions. Also, after the Faction War, taxes became a thing of the past, as the Fated were kicked out of Sigil and it was discovered that the taxes had just gone to support the tax-collecting infrastructure in the first place.

So my question is this: Who pays the judges' salaries? Sure, the dabus were no doubt willing to work for free, but other judges are going to need money to live on. Where does it come from? Surely not all the judges are independently wealthy or working second jobs, and are doing their judicial work pro bono out of the goodness of their hearts. Actually, while it's the case of the judges that first occurred to me (because of the possibility that a PC is going to get involved in Sigil's judicial system), this would apply to other city officials as well. While Faction War says that all the taxes just went toward the tax collection bureaucracy, it seems more likely this is an exaggeration and that while most of the money went there, some of it also went toward paying the salaries of the judges and other city officials. So now, with no taxes coming in, where are they getting their pay? It doesn't really help to say that their pay comes from the Sigil Advisory Council, because that just shifts the question--unless the Council members are using their personal funds (and none of them except Estevan have that much money in their personal funds anyway), where are they getting the money?

I can think of a number of possibilities, such as:

  1. The judges and other city officials are paid out of the money coming in from fines exacted on lawbreakers. (This one strikes me as very unlikely, both because it doesn't seem probable that enough money would come in from that source and because it would tend to encourage judicial corruption.)
  2. Certain wealthy individuals sponsor the various city services. (This one strikes me as unlikely too, for different reasons. While there are certainly people around who have the money to do so, and while I could even accept that they'd do it for the good publicity generated, among other reasons, there'd be too much danger of their using the system to buy influence, through hints that their money is only going to go toward those city services that work in their favor. Given how carefully the Advisory Council system has been designed to avoid giving undue influence to the very wealthy, it seems to me this is a pitfall they'd want to avoid.)
  3. The dabus supply the money. Where do they get it? Well, presumably from the Lady of Pain. And where does she get it? Any Cager knows better than to ask questions like that.
  4. The Sigil Advisory Council has a number of investments which generate enough of a return to pay for city officials' salaries.
  5. There was enough money left over from what the Fated had collected before the Faction War (plus what was gained by selling off a lot of the property Darkwood and the other Fated who fled the city left--hey, fair's fair) to pay the city officials for some time. Of course, that money's not going to last forever...

Personally, I think I'm going to go with #5 for my campaign, if only for the role-playing opportunities. As the money starts to run low, maybe there's an attempt to reintroduce taxation--which is not going to go over well with Sigil's populace, even if it is taxation on a much smaller scale than when the Fated ran it. Maybe there's a proposal to start a citywide lottery to generate funds (Zadara (who's going to play a prominent role in the campaign) could be willing to pony up the starting money, in exchange for a cut of the profits). Maybe the Sigil Advisory Council is tempted to allow sponsorship by wealthy individuals, in spite of the dangers involved (Estevan would almost certainly advocate this, since it would allow him to increase his own influence)...

So, anyway, like I said, I think I'm probably going with #5 in my campaign, but I was curious what thoughts others had on this matter...

Erik's picture
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Salaries in Sigil

Hmmm... #5 does sound like the most likely, but I like #3 as well...
#4 sounds feasible, too, considering Rhys is on the council, and remembering that knowing what will happen is what got Zadara so rich in the first place.
#5 is what I'd go with, though.

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Salaries in Sigil

'Smeazel' wrote:
The dabus supply the money. Where do they get it? Well, presumably from the Lady of Pain. And where does she get it? Any Cager knows better than to ask questions like that.

I like this option the best. It doesn't have as much opportunity for conflict as some of the others, but it has a level of mystery that I enjoy - effectively, this option is saying that nobody really knows where the money comes from.

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Smeazel's picture
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See, the main thing I don't like about that option--other than that it doesn't lead to as many role-playing opportunities as #5--is that I'm not sure it doesn't cheapen the Lady of Pain. Having her use the dabus to physically maintain the city and to have them work as judges is one thing, having her occasionally float down the street or maze a troublemaker is fine, but to imply that the Lady of Pain actually handles money--I don't know; there's just something about that that I'm not sure sits well with me. It's a possibility, sure, and I could go with it, but there are reasons it's not my top choice.

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Salaries in Sigil

I would think that even with taxes and a tax supported bueracracy broken down - when it becomes obvious to the citizentry that Some taxes are needed for some things - i think they'd come back. Probably as something only paid by land owners in the city - possibly based on the percentage of land you own (now wouldn't THAT be a good start for a module considering who the two biggest land owners in the city are)...

I could see the council supporting a minor tax to provide basic upkeep. Taxing is a good thing, taxing to an extreme where the taxes are no longer spent on what they're supposed to be spent on, is NOT. Rhys would certianly be one to agree with that stance I'd think.

.... or maybe Jeremo foots the bill as a 'gift' to the city.

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I do see taxation coming back eventually; I just think there'd be some initial resistance. Sure, it may become obvious that some taxes are necessary, but people aren't always reasonable, and so shortly after escaping from the heavy tax burden the Fated imposed I don't think they'd be at all eager to start paying taxes again. I do see a new, less exorbitant system of taxation eventually being accepted; I just think it's going to take some time. I agree that Rhys and at least some of the other council members would support it, but it would take more time for the common people to see the necessity.

'Clueless' wrote:
.... or maybe Jeremo foots the bill as a 'gift' to the city.

Heh. Yeah, he'd probably offer to...but for the reasons laid out regarding possibility #2 I'm not sure the council would be anxious to accept his offer. (Then again, he could be insistent about the matter, and could even go so far as to try to stir up popular sentiment in favor of the city's accepting his "gift", and paint the council members as unreasonable for not doing so...this could make for an interesting subplot...)

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Salaries in Sigil

Quite. Yeah - I'm definately writing up something for Kyto's Hooks at this point.

Korimyr the Rat's picture
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Salaries in Sigil

I rather like #5, myself-- but I'm curious about your objections to numbers 1 and 2.

Certainly, these promote a certain level of corruption in Sigil's government. But isn't Sigil supposed to be corrupt? You're not supposed to be able to get anything done in Sigil without the right garnish; why would the government be any different?

#3 doesn't cheapen the Lady, in my opinion-- after all, noone's ever seen handling the money but the Dabus. I just don't care for this solution because it makes things... too easy. Sigil's government needs to be strapped for cash, generally inefficient, and occasionally predatory, or it stops being Sigil.

I think after the money from #5 wears out, Sigil's going to go back to some kind of tax system-- though I think the system'll probably be heavily subsidized by fines, a la #1.

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Salaries in Sigil

I favor #1 - everyone, guilty and non-guilty, are expected to pay the courts for the privilege of having them arbitrate. If someone is forced to appear before the court and can't pay immediately, their wages may be garnished or they may be sold into slavery until they earn their freedom or someone can pay their debt for them. Alternatively, someone who can't pay the court may simply be obliged to forfeit any claims of innocence or being wronged. The various sects active in Sigil, especially the Sons of Mercy, may well offer free arbitration for those who can't afford it, and they may get funds from sects not presently active in the city, such as the Fraternity of Order and the Harmonium, to help them with this.

Anyone can set themselves up as an arbiter and charge for it, at least until a formal guild is created. The judges often make additional money by accepting bribes from whoever offers it, which is why former Guvners and Mercykillers are prized - philosophically, they want justice to be served, so they're less likely to let the promise of jink affect their judgement.

Smeazel's picture
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'Korimyr the Rat' wrote:
But isn't Sigil supposed to be corrupt? You're not supposed to be able to get anything done in Sigil without the right garnish; why would the government be any different?

Have you read the 3E write-up on Sigil on the site (Chapter 7 under Released Products)? The new Sigil Advisory Council is actively trying to avoid giving too much influence to the wealthy; they're making an effort to prevent the corruption that was rife in Sigil's government before the Faction War. I'm not saying they're succeeding, and I'm sure there's still going to be plenty of corruption, but I don't think they'd be likely to go for any measures that so blatantly encouraged corruption and bribery as those would.

Quote:
#3 doesn't cheapen the Lady, in my opinion-- after all, noone's ever seen handling the money but the Dabus.

Hence my reference to the "implication" that the Lady handled money. She's not seen handling it, no, but it's still implied she's the one who's supplying the dabus with it. However, I agree with your reason to dislike this solution, too.

'ripvanwormer' wrote:
I favor #1 - everyone, guilty and non-guilty, are expected to pay the courts for the privilege of having them arbitrate. ... Anyone can set themselves up as an arbiter and charge for it, at least until a formal guild is created.

But that goes against what is said at the end of Faction War. "They recruit only those bloods who served as judges first and foremost...As a result, Sigil's judicial system becomes the cleanest it's been in decades".

Of course, it could be that that was the situation immediately after the Faction War, but that things degenerated later...

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With Rhys involved in the council - I'd think that there would be a push to avoid corruption for longer than a few months after F.War - simply b/c a cleaner, smoother working system, with less need for financial lubrication is going to be the best way to rebuild the city after those sort of war damages. Aka. better over all and likely to be the Cadence approved way of 'correct'. And considering the respect that particular tiefer can get...

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It seems odd to me that the Fated would have taxed heavily, or even at all. Considering their creed is basically that everyone has to earn his own living... anything to do with taxes seems anathema to their very beings.

Also on that note, if the taxes weren't actually paying for anything, a member of the Fated under 2e rules would actually be prohibited from even paying them, because their two faction abilities were 2x the non-weapon proficiencies and an inability to pay for anything until the service was rendered.

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Don't forget that the Takers got their nickname (Takers) for a reason. What isn't nailed down, but is earned by effort - is Theirs. Thievery - legal thievery - included. They aren't Indepy -'I live on my own, you live on your own, just stay out of each others way and all's cool'. Taker's are more of the 'I live on my own, and I'll step on you on the way up. If you don't step back well then that's your *own* fault.'

Yeah, taxes is 'free' money - but not when you're going to all that effort of convincing others that they should pay them, and they're being used for worthwhile services, or that if they don't the big man with the sword behind you is gonna rough them up.

Also, never underestimate the power of greed and corruption. You don't have to believe to the core of your soul in your philosophy when you join a faction - this means you won't get past Namer most likely. But then it's not like there aren't *plenty* of organized belief systems out there that have practicioners that aren't really believers, even in the real world.

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Salaries in Sigil

The problem with the "cleanest judiciary in decades" line is that a cleaner trash can is still a trash can.

Sigil just isn't, in my estimation, the kind of place that can survive without a bit of "feeding the beast." Who legally pays the judges? Well, nobody. In exchanage for their service to the city, they are afforded the priviledge of the robes: everybody wants to be the judge's friend. Those who are properly educated are, by exclusion, those who are wealthy enough to be properly educated, and as such, judges would be able to live by their own means. In fact, it might be insulting to one of such stature to imply that they might need a salary.

With that said, it is an unavoidable consequence of having unmasked judges that there will be bribery and unfair dealings, and those of power and influence rarely allow their accountants to be questioned. "How does Judge Mekala maintain his villa in such lavish fashion? I wonder if he's on the takeGURRRK!" *the unmistakable sound of an honest, but dead, body slumping to the ground*

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Salaries in Sigil

I feel like perhaps it would be a medley of many of your ideas. The Fated would have some money in their treasury for THEIR things, but as far as everything else goes, I always felt like there were taxes in Sigil in the first place.
A Sigil citizen wouldn't necesarilly own the land that they lived on, or the house that they lived in...that would mean they had to pay rent. There's extra money for goods because they all have to be imported, which ups those prices, the Planar Trade Consortium and so on and so forth have their hooks in all of the goods and services from outside of Sigil and I always thought that the Factions would have dues....or at least force their members to provide them with "voluntary" service.

And also the authorities have a bunch of fees for arbiters and such and such. I'm always sure that my PC's pay fines when they break laws, guilty or no. Littering fine, killing people fine...when in Mechanus or Automata, if you wear the wrong color you can get a fine...

But it's all up to you Laughing out loud

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