Revisement of Rogue Modron

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Addax's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

Has anyone considered revising the stats of Rogue Modrons since the arrival of Eberron? Some of the rules used for Warforged would work well for them I think especially the Living Construct subtype. With some changes I think we could get that +2 level adjustment down to a mere +1 and bring them closer to what they were in 2nd edition.

My recommendations would be as follows:

+2 to Int and Con
-2 to Dex and Cha

Base land speed 20 ft (to reflect their lowered base speed in 2nd edition)

Acid, Cold and Fire resistance 5

+2 natural armor and the necessity to have customised gear to reflect their unique physique.

+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks and elven ability to find secret doors. (as they did in 2nd edition)

Living construct subtype - see page 23 of Eberron handbook (this handles many rogue modron immunities and overall flavor)

LA +1

This is an experiment, I'm still wondering if they should have access to warforged feats like adamantine body to reflect custom changes they have made to themselves or if such custom work should be done by purchacing items with money. In any case please tell me what you think!

ripvanwormer's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

It doesn't seem really appropriate to me. I think modrons should have the same creature type as celestials, fiends, rilmani, and slaadi; they're the same essential thing, a personification of an alignment. They're not machines: they just have machine-like characteristics.

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Revisement of Rogue Modron

Regardless of type, I'd like to see modrons worked down to a +1 race. I've tried to do the same thing with the gith races, but never quite finished it.

The modrons are described as partially mechanical and rogues are quite different from standard modrons in important ways which distinguish them from other Outsider modrons. ["Unlike other modrons, they are susceptible to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain. It is believed this is because they are cut off from the central energy pool, but none other than Primus himself knows the reason."] Also, I would guess that it's an unspoken accepted rule that rogue modrons can be raised, just like the modified the rules for planetouched.

Nemui's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

I also vote for staying with the Outsider type, and I'm not sure that nerfing the modrons down to a LA +1 race could be done properly (without losing too much of what makes them modronish).

What I would like to see are PC traits for all modron types gone rogue (all drone types, that is... well, except the monodrone, possibly). I never liked the assumption by which all rogues "magically" turn into quadrones...

Clueless's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

I always felt less like it was magical and more like it was a forced demotion - THEN being kicked out - right?

ripvanwormer's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

Rogue modrons are pretty much killed on sight by members of Primus' collective, so taking the time to demote them seems unlikely. They steal energy from Primus' pool, energy which if they were killed would return to it and be used to create a new monodrone.

I prefer Randir's Theory of Rogue Modrons, which is to say that they are "seeds" with the potential to found new orders of modronkind - to evolve into new Primuses. This is why they are all cube-shaped - they are the primary building blocks of a new race. It is not merely their minds that have changed, but everything about them, as appropriate for their new purpose. Naturally, Primus doesn't desire the creation of rivals, but as long as they remain away from Mechanus they can't take root in a cog and blossom.

So many metaphors...

Anyway, according to this theory they're very much still outsiders.

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Revisement of Rogue Modron

Mmhh, this reminds me of Roger Zelazny's Amber books ... Pattern, Logrus, the foundations of reality - and Corwin's Pattern as the new reality seeded out from the previous.

Nemui's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

'Clueless' wrote:
I always felt less like it was magical and more like it was a forced demotion - THEN being kicked out - right?

What Rip said. Also, rogue mono-, duo, and tridrones aren't exactly being demoted when they become quadrones.

Re: Randir's Theory of Rogue Modrons - I'm not too thrilled with that explanation. They can be the potential seeds of a Neo-Primus in any shape, and making all "building blocks" square is too antropomorphic (so to speak) IMO.

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hmm

What I'm attempting to do is make the modron outcast more like they they were in 2nd edition. Plus a high level adjustment tends to make a race far less likely to be used as a PC. And their type really wouldn't be changing, they would be Outsiders with the "Living Construct" subtype.

ripvanwormer's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

'Nemui' wrote:
and making all "building blocks" square is too antropomorphic (so to speak) IMO.

I think most outsiders are anthropomorphic, both in the sense that so many of them are humanoid and the sense that they're created in part from mortal expectations and belief.

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Revisement of Rogue Modron

'Rhys' wrote:
Also, I would guess that it's an unspoken accepted rule that rogue modrons can be raised, just like the modified the rules for planetouched.

Hmm, undead modrons... :twisted:

Almighty Watashi's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

Or modron vampires :twisted:

eldersphinx's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

I'm not sure which is more absurd - the modron vampire or the modron mummy. One's a cyborgish cubic outsider who's grown bloodsucking fangs and can (presumably) shapeshift into a wolf or bat, and the other's managed to wrap itself in old rags and spread a rotting disease.

'Course, if we step away from the core rules, things get even weirder. Modron Son of Kyuss...

Rhys's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

Technically speaking, rogues are the only modrons who could become vampires, since the others are immune to ability damage and therefore couldn't be affected by the blood drain ability to lose their Constitution points. And "mummy" isn't a template unless you throw in a book like Savage Species.

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Revisement of Rogue Modron

'Addax' wrote:
Plus a high level adjustment tends to make a race far less likely to be used as a PC.

Modron Outcasts should be rare. There are very few of them in existence.

Otherwise, I haven't read Eberron, so can't say how I'd feel about them using such a template.

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Almighty Watashi's picture
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Revisement of Rogue Modron

I think libris mortis has a mummy template Smiling

How about a modron lich... Man, a modron lich wizard with a skeletal puzzled look on his face, now THAT's epic Laughing out loud

I think i'm ready to start preparing the next session :twisted:

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Rogue modron rarity

"Modron Outcasts should be rare. There are very few of them in existence."

I have a theory that rogue modrons aren't as rare as they once were.

SPOILER

If you've ever DM'ed the old 2nd edition Planescape adventure 'Dead Gods' you learn about the resurrection of Orcus. In order to fully resurrect himself and grant himself a new body Orcus required his rod which was hidden by his ursurper. To aid in his search, using powerful magic he acquired called 'The Final Word' or some such, Orcus slew and replaced Primus. Having done so he sent out the Modron March 200 years ahead of schedule to search the planes for his hidden rod.

Now it may just be me, but I imagine that the modrons probably didn't fair so well with a Chaotic Evil demon prince taking the place of their leader. Especially since they themselves are the ultimate expression of law. It also seems to me that Orcus would likely have tainted the Modron energy pool simply out of spite for them being such a lawful species. But this is just a theory. Regardless I don't think that Rogue modrons should be all that common but remember that PC's are generally anything but common.

thanks

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Revisement of Rogue Modron

*Ahem* plugs his own character submission. Fun with Tenebrous. Follow his continuing adventures on the Planewalker forums in Primus' ongoing modron campaign: "Eye for an Eye"!

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