Resuming the discussion

Another stab at breathing life into this section

How far along has the project come? What still needs doing?

A lot of the ideas that have been passed around so far seem really good and I'd like to see where they go.
One of the next things to do might be to come up with a handful of NPC's for the various factions, or outline their goals. It might also be an idea to come up with a 'base' state of the Githyanki Empire post-insurrection - so we know firmly what direction we're coming from.

Would it help if we put together a To Do list and had folks sign up for which bits to do?

That would be a good idea. I love lamp!

Most of these ideas are just what I personally came up with and bounced off of the community through various threads here. Most of the names were invented by Mephit James, with a few myself.

1. The Ascendancy. Imperialists and monarchists who claim to have the next-in-line to Vlaakith, thus enabling them to continue the line of rule-by-queens. The Vlaakith-to-be is a githyanki noble who has discarded her old life to accept the mantle of Vlaakith.

2. The Heartforce. A cabal of generals trying to hold down a swath of Astral cities under martial law. They have a large military presence, but not a lot of political credibility. The Heartforce was the elite corps of githwarriors who held floating citadels surrounding Tu'narath. These forces eventually formed the core of the current militocracy, under the pretence that, as the supremely-charged guardians of the githyanki capital, they were the most qualified to take on its government. They held the city for a few weeks, until they were expelled by the Ascendancy, which had meanwhile formed. Other military units also broke off once the chain of command was broken from the top, but they either fell apart, joined one of the factions, or are too small to be of significance in the power struggle.

3. A sect of Gith-worshipers who are searching for the lost warrior-queen. Prophesies indicate that she is destined to return in the race's darkest hour, and followers have dispatched themselves to all corners of the multiverse in search of her. They are known as the Gith'etkri, or "Githites" by non-gith. There could be another group led by a githyanki who believes herself to be Gith reincarnated, but two groups dedicated to Gith's return could be too much.

4. The Silver Eyes, or maybe the Astral Searchers, or maybe they have a lot of names because they aren't a unified political group. A group of githyanki scholars, not interested in warfare, study god-corpses and planar phenomena in remote Astral nebulae and isolated pockets of the Silver Void. They form a loose collective, not presenting much of a direct threat and not with any designs of power, but they are valued by the other factions because they study the corpi dei upon which the githyanki build their cities and fortresses and have also uncovered several illithid plots to infiltrate the confused infrastructure of the society. I would look at Monte Cook's Requiem for a God for the Silver Eyes and things like Necrotheologists and rules for a corpus dei.

5. The Court of Vlaakith. Negative Energy Plane-based liches, former consorts of Vlaakith's, who are continuing with various nefarious plots. They represent the worst depths of the githyanki. Krypter suggested that they could have plans to bring Vlaakith CLVII back into existence. Alternatively, they could just be happy continuing to exploit the former Queen's rule in order to help themselves.

6. The Dragon Alliance, known as the "Cult of Tiamat" by outsiders. Followers of Tiamat who have clung to the draconic alliance and are now loyal directly to her. Some are in it for the power, some are in it out of desperation, and some are truly dedicated to their dragon masters. The latter are rewarded with power, but are almost universally despised by other githyanki, who see subservience to dragons as a self-imposed enslavement. Lots of Draconomicon material used here.

7. The Sha'Sal Khou, introduced in the Dragon Magazine module that started this all: the Lich Queen's Beloved.

here's another idea by Primus

I know many of you are familiar with the details, but here's a quick summary for newcomers. The 1E Fiend Folio flatly states that "githyanki have a pact with a group of red dragons" who "assist the githyanki when on the Prime Material Plane by acting as steeds." More importantly, it states "these red dragons will obey only githyanki when on the Prime Material Plane." As we move on to 2E, we see that the dragons are said to "serve as mounts" for the githyanki and are "forced to heed the call", but it also says at one point that "the githyani respect these powerful friends". In 2E, the pact once again is said to only apply when the githyanki are on the Prime Material Plane. In 3E, we see another turn towards a more cynical and less friendly pact (although the restriction about the PMP is omitted). This is most clearly seen in the description of the scepter of Ephelomon in the Planar Handbook, which describes it quite bluntly like so: "The bearer has total control over red dragons". It grants the bearer the ability to dominate any red dragon within a half mile, and to gate in a very old red dragon to "serve the bearer without reward" on a failed save. So, strictly speaking, githyanki are indeed commanding the dragons to one degree or another. The pact is dissolved if the scepter is destroyed. The red dragons do not immediately turn against the githyanki, but only the most subservient ones will continue to serve or assist the githyanki in any way. Red dragons in Vlaakith's service continue to serve the lich-queen out of fear but not loyalty.

I've tried hard to include the most critical and relevant information above. There are other references, but to my knowledge they basically repeat the ideas listed above. If anyone knows of anything not included in this overview, please let me know.

Based on this info, I think it's very reasonable to conclude that the githyanki and red dragons in 3E might not have give-and-take relationship. I personally think the source material is telling us that the dragons that work with the githyanki are forced into doing so by Tiamat's will. The powers of Vlaakith's scepter would indicate that some dragons need to be "kept in line" by dominating them, and Vlaakith has Tiamat's blessing to do this whenever she wishes.

I personally find that to be distinctly un-friendly. And please note that this scepter was given to the flesh-and-blood Vlaakiths that preceded the lich-queen, so it's not specific to this last Vlaakith. All githyanki leaders since the pact was forged have had these powers to utterly subjegate red dragons as they see fit.

I write all this because an honest discussion of the nature of both this pact and the feelings of the two groups towards each other directly impacts several of the factions here. The nature of githyanki feelings about red dragons, and about red dragon feelings about githyankis (and the influence of Tiamat) are all factors in determining how accepting the githyanki will be of red dragon involvement if the scepter is assumed destroyed. And the pure disgust that githyankis have for the duthka'gith, and persistent feelings that the creation of the duthka'gith was somehow a contributing factor to Vlaakith's downfall, will also be a factor.

So I'm not sure that red dragons will necessarily be buddy-buddy with githyanki after the fall of Vlaakith. It is just as likely that the githyanki will flatly reject any involvement with red dragons, now that the dragons are not compelled to do as they are told. Many will blame the red dragons and duthka'gith for meddling in their affairs, and they are probably right. There are many directions this could go.

That said, the whole idea is to come up with new ideas, and uninteresting parts of older editions can be rejected in favor of more interesting directions. I'm certainly not a rules lawyer. But I personally think the idea of the githyanki fearing and resenting the red dragons has more than enough existing evidence to make it worthy of inclusion in the discussion.

You're right that it's definitely an uphill battle, and plenty of githyanki wouldn't go for an alliance with the githzerai, but there would be some interest among progressive thinkers on both sides. Both races see the illithids as public enemy #1, so they at least have that much in common. No goody-good vibes are necessary on the part of the githyanki to justify combining forces for the wholesale slaughter of braineaters throughout the multiverse.

I was dwelling on how to keep the political factions with the resurecting a Vlaakith thing. It deals with the dragonpact with Tiamat. Let's assume Vlaakith I betrayed Gith. She sold Gith out to become the ruler of the Githyanki, however, she also agreed to sell all of the souls of her descendents to Tiamat. So, whenever a Vlaakith dies, this ancient pact causes their soul to be transported to Tiamat's lair where they are tortured or what-not. This makes it alot harder to resurect a Vlaakith.

Going this road, the Knights of Vlaakith would be forced to find a trapped soul of a Vlaakith that wasn't already in Tiamat's hands. The Palace of Whispers(?) contained the souls of dead Githyanki; when Vlaakith CLVII or whatever died, the palace was destroyed, releasing all of the dead souls. One of those souls couldn't escape however, the bonds keeping the soul tied were not broken. The soul trapped is a MALE descendent of the Vlaakith line. Now the Knights of Vlaakith need to find a way to free the soul and resurect him before Tiamat whisks his soul away.

This gives the other factions time to solidify their power bases, which means when the Vlaakith is (if ever) resurected, they might not want to surrender their power. Also, since it is a male, he can't rule right? I'm not actually sure on that point, sorry. If the Knights of Vlaakith want a legitimate heir now, they need to wait until a female is born of the male Vlaakith's seed.

Anyways, just some ideas I'm throwing out. I've also got some ideas for the Dragonpact made with Tiamat that I'll post later.

One more thing, the Ascendancy faction could still be plausible. After all, how will anyone prove who the real Vlaakith heir is?

Perhaps it would be helpful at this point to look at the situation from a higher level, by looking at what general categories the already defined groups fall into regarding their political aims.

Githyanki (pro-monarchy)
- The githyanki that desire Vlaakith CLVII back as ruler. Some believe she was not destroyed, others believe she will return. Includes Court of Vlaakith, perhaps.
- The githyanki that desire another living heir of Vlaakith I to rule. Not described yet.
- The githyanki who believe that that the next ruler will be Gith herself. Includes the Gith'etkri.
- The githyanki that seek to have another unrelated, living githyanki rule. Includes the Ascendancy & the Sha'Sal Khou.

Githyanki (anti-monarchy)
- Not described yet.

Other
- The duthka'gith, including the Dragon Alliance.

I'm not aware whether or not the Heartforce has been defined as one of the above categories. The Silver Eyes are by nature unaffiliated.

So as you can see, we have large stretches of this that are unexplored. Each type of group would face different general objections to its general political aim, and specific groups would also face specific objections to their specific plans as to how to accomplish the general aim. I suspect there would be at least one major faction in each category, and possibly several minor factions also. But any group with a specific political ajenda should fit into one of the above categories, I believe. If I've missed a category, please let me know.

I have a hard time believing that any blood heir of Vlaakith I could possibly be alive. In this regard, the githyanki might be very much like the Japanese, who generally know their lineage very well. Many Japanese have an official family geneology that allows them to trace their heritage to the first emperor. However, if there had been a homicidal emperor set on eliminating all such lineages at some point, they probably wouldn't be around today. It wouldn't be hard to figure out who begat who if you are so concerned with such records. Between Vlaakith and her knights, I think they would have eventually identified anyone who had any *remote* chance of being an heir, and then delivered them to Vlaakith for "reassignment". Vlaakith had an *awful* long time to root out any stragglers.

I would guess that by the end, she might have even had a complete geneology of every githyanki, living or dead, all the way back to the rebellion. It stands to reason that she would have persued this knowledge, considering the fact that any living heir could have (legitimately) contested her undead possession of the throne and received some degree of support based simply on the fact that she wasn't undead. Losing the throne is frequently described as the biggest fear among her many paranoias.