Home » Forums » Out Of Character Talk » RPG Discussion » Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

11 posts / 0 new
Last post
Fri, 2006-10-13 17:08
#1
SirRickles
SirRickles's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2006-10-03
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

Hello again friends,

I wanted to discuss a little about how celestials and fiends reproduce. From my other post ("What exactly happens when you die on the planes") we touched upon several topics.

One that sparked a great deal of interest to me were Petitioners becoming Fiends/Celestials, Tanaari reproducing by mating, Baatezu reproducing by springing from the plane itself.... ect. I assume certain celestials reproduce by mating also, which would explain Aasimars.

(which brings a question, are Tieflings all part Tanaari?)

I was also wondering, is a Celestial or a Fiendling that was born through the traditional way equivalent to one that developed from a petitioner?

Tags:
Fri, 2006-10-13 17:45
#2
Kestral
Kestral's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2006-03-27
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

Tiefers can be descended from any of the fiends. The main requirement is that they had an ancestor (and not an immediate ancestor) who was a fiend.

Also, celestials and fiends born directly from the plane or by mating are definitely equal to another of the same type that came to be that way from any means, including petitioner conversion.

Fri, 2006-10-13 21:29
(Reply to #2) #3
Hymneth
Hymneth's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2006-08-01
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

Don't forget metaphysical ancestors. Even if there's not a fiend in your family tree per se, you might still wind up a tiefling if an ancestor had been tainted somehow, such as being a cleric of a Demonic/Devilish god, spending way too long on a particular lower planar layer, being cursed, a victim of wild magic, etc.

Sun, 2006-10-15 18:35
(Reply to #3) #4
Darvon
Darvon's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2006-10-09
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

The Fiendish Codex 1: Horders of the Abyss, answers both these question in regards to Demons.

"Some demons can have sex if they chose (though not all of them have the neccersary 'equipment', but it is not neccersary for procreation, since new demons are formed directly from the chaos of the abyss." - It goes on to say this is where half fiends come from.

As to petitioners coming back as demons, the book says that happens rarely, if ever. Or possibly only when a powerful mortal makes a pact with demons during his lifetime.

The forward in the book introduction says that everything in there is canon and will be reference as such in future products, so it's probably a pretty good reference.

Sun, 2006-10-15 20:00
(Reply to #4) #5
ripvanwormer
ripvanwormer's picture
Offline
Factol
Joined: 2004-10-05
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

Fiendish Codex I is contradictory on the subject, however. It claims that demons don't need to reproduce sexually early on, but then in the descriptions of chasme and ekolids it says bluntly that they do ("chasme reproduce from prefertilized eggs laid in the decaying flesh of enormous slain demons... ekolids are driven by the urge to reproduce constantly..."). Granted, ekolid reproduction may be asexual, but they still reproduce biologicaly, via eggs that they lay, rather than being born directly from the Abyss.

Mon, 2006-10-16 04:36
(Reply to #5) #6
Almighty Watashi
Almighty Watashi's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2004-11-22
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

Sounds like slaadi Smiling

Tue, 2006-10-17 16:08
(Reply to #6) #7
SirRickles
SirRickles's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2006-10-03
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

'Darvon' wrote:

As to petitioners coming back as demons, the book says that happens rarely, if ever. Or possibly only when a powerful mortal makes a pact with demons during his lifetime.

aren't Nuperibos and those other blob demons souls of petitioners?
They eventually level up to be lesser demons then on to greater demons if they survive a bunch of stuff don't they?

or.. it doesn't work that way at all..

Tue, 2006-10-17 18:14
(Reply to #7) #8
Azriael
Azriael's picture
Offline
factotums
Joined: 2006-08-07
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

To quote 'Faces of Evil' "It's no dark that Baatezu evolve from the spirits of mortals slain across the planes"

Lemures are generally Larvae which higher orders of Baatezu have molded (or melted) into a 'purer' form
Nupperibos form spontaneously from larvae in Baator and are melted into Lemures when Baatezu when they encounter them to keep them from evolving. Also, sometimes when a Baatezu is killed outside of Baator it comes back as a Nupperibo.
However not all Baatezu evolve from Larvae and Nupperibos and some are spontaneously created by Baator although this is definately the exception rather than the rule.

So in short, yes, most Nupperibos and Lemures are created from the souls of mortals

However "Demons" referrs to Tanarri so this stuff doesn't apply to them

__________________

"We're making a better world. All of them, better worlds." - Anonomous Harmonium Officer

Tue, 2006-10-17 18:20
(Reply to #8) #9
Azriael
Azriael's picture
Offline
factotums
Joined: 2006-08-07
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

I Just checked and many Tanar'ri are created on the 400th layer when the Judges of woe change larvae into least Tanar'ri. However The nature of the Abyss is so chaotic that the exceptions are probably more common than this rule.

__________________

"We're making a better world. All of them, better worlds." - Anonomous Harmonium Officer

Tue, 2006-10-17 19:14
(Reply to #9) #10
ripvanwormer
ripvanwormer's picture
Offline
Factol
Joined: 2004-10-05
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

All manes are petitioners. Many tanar'ri evolve from manes. Ergo, many tanar'ri evolve from petitioners.

Sun, 2006-10-29 21:52
(Reply to #10) #11
Shemeska the Ma...
Shemeska the Marauder's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2004-04-26
Reproduction, Birth, in the lower and upper planes

Eladrin - presumably formed from Arborea itself and not petitioners. Seems likely that they can sexually reproduce. Promotion between ranks isn't known if it happens or not.

Guardinals - presumably they form from Elysium itself rather than from petitioners. Promotion between ranks may or may not happen, but it seems likely that they can also sexually reproduce. [And that was my assumption for something that might appear in a Dragon article, if it survives the edits]

Archons - exclusively formed from petitioners and subsequent promotions to higher rank

Rilmani - not a darn clue. I would presume they form from the plane itself rather than petitioners.

Yugoloths - mezzoloths form spontaneously from the neutral evil planes. All lesser yugoloths can mate to form more mezzoloths. Nycaloths and Arcanaloths are mostly formed from the promotion of their immediate lesser rank (marraenaloths and nycaloths respectively), but they can each mate with their own kind to make more nycaloths and arcanaloths. Ultroloths can produce arcanaloths by pathanogenesis, but all ultroloths are formed from promoted arcanaloths.

Planescape, Dungeons & Dragons, their logos, Wizards of the Coast, and the Wizards of the Coast logo are ©2008, Wizards of the Coast, a subsidiary of Hasbro Inc. and used with permission.