PSCS3 Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

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Clueless's picture
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PSCS3 Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

For the Artists:

One thing to keep in mind is this - the PSCS is a little picky on the quality of art. This is both for your sake and ours, since we know these downloads are the first face of Planewalker that new folks will see, and we also know we will be ripped apart by people online if we put something together that isn't up to some fairly decent standards. We don't want to see you get dragged through the mud for it anymore than we want to be dragged.

This is why we ask to see something you've done in advance if at all possible.

Drop a link to us in this thread, or via PM or email to me. Don't get intimidated here, it's not like we're looking for (or can afford) Lockwood here - but we just want to be sure you've got a decent idea of what you're getting into. If we can use your work in any capacity we'll certainly find a place for you. And in either case, we'll definately give you some tips on directions you can go with it in further practice and pass your name to any of the other projects being worked on at Planewalker.

General Artwork Requirements/Comments:

First - We're volunteer. That means the only thing we can pay you here, is purely advertising your name and talent. And we will pimp you out, trust us on that. Eye-wink We don't make any claims to your artwork, we don't make any claims to your rights. We would like it if you are selling art you've submitted to the PSCS that the person you're selling it to knows we already had it and isn't going to make us take it down. We promise we'll get choked up... there might even be tears.

Second - This is stuff that's going to go online, in a PDF or word document. That means we'll be receiving your scan of the work, fiddling with it, tweaking, pushing, shoving, or in some cases praying - to get it to fit on a page with text. Make our jobs a little easier if you can? Scan it in 300 dpi or better, gif, jpg or photoshop file, and try to size it with that 'fits on a page with text' end result in mind. Make it as clean a scan as you can get - lots of smudges makes for a *very* hard to clean up image. If there are no backgrounds on your piece don't fret over it - look at your books, background in many cases are minimal to allow text to flow around it. Don't give your hand cramps for that unless you need to.

Third - We are primarily looking for colored and will also accept non-colored pieces. Coloring is optional, and if you do it it can be digitally colored or colored by hand/real media, it really doesn't matter in the long run, it's all going into the digital world for us anyway, right? Eye-wink Don't take this as a demand that you go full disney technicolor either. Do what looks *good* for your work - if that means a gentle hand with a few ink washes or just leaving it uncolored - so be it.

Lastly - if real life eats you and you find you don't have the time - don't worry about it. Just please, let us know so we can look to someone else for the piece.

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Specific Artwork

Specific Artwork Needs:Last Updated: 05.21.2009

Herein you will find our running list of artistic needs for chapters. If you want to claim a specific task from this list, just post in the thread that it's 'mine/yours' and give us a rough idea of when you'll have it in so we know not to seriously consider other submissions for that task until your due date is past.

If it comes down to the wire and we have art that is good and in vs. even better art that is still being developed for the same task - we'll have to use the one that we have and find a place for the one that came in late elsewhere.

Please remember to follow the guidelines on a b/w or colored (if you can do it) version. If you suck at coloring but are ok letting someone else get into it - let me know - I can do the coloring for you - I'm actually not that bad at it. Eye-wink

[url="/pscs-chapter-1"]Chapter 1: Introduction[/url]

Planar Maps:
Great Ring .............................. In progress: princessbunny
Inner Planes ........................... In progress: princessbunny

Tavern Scene
As described here: "a scene where all of the major Planescape races (and major races from the different D&D campagins, from Forgotten Realms to Spelljammer to Eberron) can be found in a single tavern. I know this would be a big pic, but you have to admit it would look pretty cool."
In progress:Satyr

"The storyteller"
This should be a *scene*, not a single character, of an elderly storyteller talking to an array of children.
Open for Claiming

[url="/pscs-chapter-2"]Chapter 2: Races[/url]

One picture per Prestige Race:
Focus of the Outlands ..................... Open for Claiming
Focus of Undersigil ......................... CharReed

Misc. Images
*Scenes* of these races interacting with the environment, and each other
Open for Claiming

[url="/pscs-chapter-3"]Chapter 3: Factions[/url]

One general factioneer per faction (old and new factions):

Believers of the Source ........ Duster and Squaff
Bleak Cabal ......................... Duster and Squaff
Fated .................................. DONE - Duster and Squaff
Fraternity of Order ............... Duster and Squaff
Free League ........................ Duster and Squaff
Mercykillers .......................... Duster and Squaff
Mind's Eye ............................ Duster and Squaff
Ring-Givers ......................... DONE - Duster and Squaff
Society of Sensation ............. Duster and Squaff
Sons of Mercy ...................... Duster and Squaff
Sign of One .......................... Duster and Squaff
Transcendent Order ............. Duster and Squaff

One illustration per Faction Prestige Class .........All are Open for Claiming, inkoi tenatively Doomguard Swordmaster

[url="/pscs-chapter-4"]Chapter 4: Feats and Skills[/url]
(These are just suggestions, if you have a nifty idea for any of the other feats - let me know!)

Ascetic .................................. Open for Claiming
Blasphemous Presence ........... Open for Claiming
Blessed Smith of Bytopia ........ Open for Claiming
Censure Outsider ................... Open for Claiming
Dead Truce ............................ Open for Claiming
Entropic Blow ......................... Open for Claiming
Functional Wings ..................... pegacorna
Helping Hand .......................... Open for Claiming
Infiltrator ............................... Open for Claiming
Lockdown .............................. Open for Claiming
Multiversal Socialite ................ Open for Claiming
Oblivion Awaits ....................... Open for Claiming
Planar Knack ......................... Open for Claiming: Pick a plane, any plane.
Seasoned Officer .................... Open for Claiming
Sift ........................................ Open for Claiming
The Stuff of Legends ............... Open for Claiming
Wild Spell ................................ Open for Claiming

One illustration per Prestige Class .........All are Open for Claiming

[url="/pscs-chapter-5"]Chapter 5: Magic[/url]

Ritual 'bad guy' magic. Featuring an arcanaloth, or baatazu or tanarri, and some icky gooepy components. Fairly dark. May be used either in general or for the description of True Name magic.
Open for Claiming - Center of All

Ritual 'good guy' magic. Featuring a celestial, I'm partial to eladrin, and some appropriately fitting components and glowing light. May be used either in general or for the description of Wild Magic.
DONE - Center of All (please email me a copy)

Ritual magic image. This one I was thinking maybe a dragon involved, but it's fairly open for your imagination to play.
Open for Claiming

Selected spells
(These are just suggestions, if you have a nifty idea for any of the other spells - let me know!)

Baatezu Bane ....................... Open for Claiming
Bone Craft ............................ Open for Claiming
Chains of Water .................... DONE - maatsgarden
Curious Courier ..................... maatsgarden
Dream Conduit ..................... Open for Claiming
Dimensional Tether ............... Open for Claiming
Earth Thrust .......................... Open for Claiming
Ecstatic Decay ....................... Open for Claiming
Faction Press ......................... Open for Claiming
Howl of Pandemonium ............ maatsgarden
Mind of the Hunted ................. Open for Claiming
Planar Union .......................... maatsgarden
Seal Portal, Lesser ................. Open for Claiming
Spirit Guard ........................... Open for Claiming
Talking Door ...........................maatsgarden
Vile Temptation ...................... Open for Claiming

Selected psionic powers
(These are just suggestions, if you have a nifty idea for any of the other psionic powers - let me know!)

Dream Beast ............................. Open for Claiming
Living Memory ........................... Open for Claiming

[url="/pscs-chapter-6"]Chapter 6: Life in the Multiverse[/url]

One portrait per speaker, preferably a scene of that character interacting with environment or interviewer if possible.

Orfizal Palengras ................................ Open for Claiming
Hajzeek Gnarl-Hoof ............................ Open for Claiming
Orren Delaphage ................................ Open for Claiming
Alicia De'Morlina ................................. Open for Claiming
A Very Large Dragon (Chronepsis) ....... pegacorna
Malkan ............................................... Open for Claiming
Walliford Goldenwrench ....................... Open for Claiming
Ezzekial Tarash .................................. Open for Claiming
Marila Tendershoot ............................. Open for Claiming
Taras Habbinger ................................. Open for Claiming
Ardreth Imshenviir .............................. Open for Claiming
Arvateth Pash'mat .............................. Open for Claiming
Alpthis and Apteris .............................. Open for Claiming
Corin the Imbiber ............................... Open for Claiming
Jeremy deLeas ................................... Open for Claiming

Landscapes, Misc (See also Ch 8 ) ........... All are Open for Claiming, Mixed bag - maatsgarden, domigorgon

Items and Equipment

Bariaur Armor .............................. domigorgon
Bariaur Horned Helm ..................... domigorgon
Kooth ........................................... domigorgon
Baatorian Green Steel Sword ..........domigorgon
Karach Sword ...............................domigorgon
Mechanical Mechanus Clock ............domigorgon
Fire Fruit ...................................... domigorgon
Astral Streaker ............................. domigorgon
Baku's Trumpet ............................ domigorgon
Bottled Breath .............................. domigorgon
Mimir ........................................... domigorgon
Ethereal Cruiser ...........................domigorgon

[url="/pscs-chapter-7"]Chapter 7: Sigil [/url]

One portrait per major cutter, preferably a scene of that character interacting with environment or interviewer if possible.

Arwyl Swan's Son ................. Open for Claiming
Autochon the Bellringer ......... Open for Claiming
Cirily .................................. Open for Claiming
Estavan ............................... Open for Claiming
Harys Hatchis ....................... Open for Claiming
Jeremo the Natterer .............. Open for Claiming
Kylie the Tout ........................ Done: Xman
Lissandra the Gate-Seeker ..... Open for Claiming
Ramander the Wise ............... Open for Claiming
Rhys .................................... Open for Claiming
Rule-of-Three ....................... Open for Claiming
Shemeska the Marauder ........ Open for Claiming
Unity-of-Rings ....................... Open for Claiming
Zdara the Titan...................... Open for Claiming

Cityscapes, and images of life in Sigil

Palace of the Jester ................. maatsgarden
Fortune's Wheel ...................... Open for Claiming
tower of the Wyrm (Prison) ..... Open for Claiming
The Portal Jammer ................. Open for Claiming
Hall of Records rubble ............ Open for Claiming
Civic Festhall ......................... Open for Claiming
Great Gymnasium .................. Open for Claiming
Great Bazaar ......................... Open for Claiming
The Foundry .......................... Open for Claiming
The Shattered Temple ............ Open for Claiming
Gear Street ........................... Open for Claiming
The Mortuary ......................... Open for Claiming
The Ditch (and surroundings) ... Open for Claiming
The Gatehouse ....................... Open for Claiming
New Tyr ................................. Open for Claiming
The Lotus Blossom District ....... Open for Claiming

[url="/pscs-chapter-8"]Chapter 8: The Planes And Beyond[/url]

Landscapes, at least one per plane .......... All are Open for Claiming, Mixed bag - maatsgarden, domigorgon

Cityscapes, per major city at your choice ..... All are Open for Claiming

Gate-town Maps ....... All are Open for Claiming
Please ask if interested, I'll get the sketchy town layouts to you

[url="/pscs-chapter-9"]Chapter 9: DM's Dark[/url]

Dice on a table .............. pegacorna

princessbunny99's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

I don't want to claim anything yet...since I've already got drawings I'm doing, but here's my deviantart gallery and if you have anything you'd like me to do, I'll get right on it Laughing out loud

I can also do Faction Symbols fairly well too, if I didn't post those on my gallery....

http://princessbunny99.deviantart.com

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Ok, this is my Deviantart site: http://oloolo.deviantart.com/ Almost all of it is a few years old, but it should hopefully still be a somewhat decent sample of the stuff I draw.

Also, I'd prefer to do drawings for the races or just any random drawings needed. I'm only particularly good at drawing people, not landscapes so much.

Thanks!

Love,
ANDERZ!

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

It looks like you prefer to do portrait work from what I'm seieng here. All female, or any good with males too? Also, how do action scenes treat ya?

And oddly enough I like some of the composition you have with the photography - is that something you're still working on and/or have you ever tossed those photographs through any photoshop filters to see if you come out with anything nice looking?

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

I do prefer portraits. I can draw males all right too, I just don't have any on that site. My old Elfwood page has some more drawing including some an action scene attempt as well as some pictures of men. Most of that stuff is even older than what's on my Deviantart site. I haven't really put any of my stuff online in a long time. I could try and scan in some of my newer drawings, if you want.

The photography was mainly just something I did once when I was bored. I've neve really messed with it that much.

My old Elfwood site:

http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/art/j/i/jig/jig.html

Thanks!
ANDERS

Terra Nova's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Can those of us who can't draw make requests or come up with ideas?

Clueless's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

The text of the PSCS is generally what's guiding us in what we ask for.

The request list is coming straight from what the editors/managers and sometimes writers of the PSCS based on what we would like to see go along with the text and where we think something would look good in the layout. Of course, since these are illustrations intended for the PSCS book release, if there's a page that you particularly wanted to see something for - point it out so we'll be able to check and see if that would make a good spot to put art into.

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Hey Clue! I think I might be back again... I don't know where I went, but Im here now. I need to get caught up with the forum... be back soonishness.

Ur-Priest's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Hey,

I'm kinda new to these forums (though I've been registered for a while...)
I would love to contribute artwork to the Planescape project!

I have some drawings on my website, and i wish I could be of assistance:
My Website

(edit: I haven't updated it in a while now...and for some reason a link or two don't work, I should check up on that...)

Clueless's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Okies Smiling

I am currently in the middle of grinding out chapter 8 for the PSCS, but once that is done I'll be able to sit down and look through the chapters again for artwork opportunies and get you folks the list of thinigs we're looking for. I'm going to try - based on whats in your portfolios to apply you to where your talents seem best suited, be that people/places/landscapes and what not. Smiling Just bear with me as I'm about to go even more quiet than I have been before as I try to get this chapter wrapped up.

Unski's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

I hope it is not too late to announce my interest in creating art for the Planewalker.

Below is a link to a picture. It presents quite well what I usually draw. Due to the fact that there's a lemure, and a bit of pain in it, I decided to just link it instead of directly posting it here.

The transformation into a lemure isn't a painless process

Do note though that I have no idea how the transformation really happens. This is more of an application in a am I good enough for you as an artist' than a as a blood.

If you need my help, I'd say I could lend a hand with planar creatures, factions and their members, and possibly with some other random things too.

trolloc's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Are the artists going to get more feedback and update on what's going on from the managers and editors?

I drop off the PS project. There wasn't any feedback, comments, or criticism on what is needed and what is suitable and what is true to the PS. Basically there isn't any art direction.

Clueless's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Artwork needs have been updated - I'm working through the rest of my list to make this more detailed. I'm hoping this will give you a *much* better idea of the scope of what needs doing. There's much more than just chapter 2 in the PSCS and the rest of them are looking mighty bland without art. There's no good reason to focus all our effort on a single chapter out of nine of them. Eye-wink

Here's to hoping everyone's still around. Does that about cover what evryone needs to know?

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factotums
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

I just looked through Chapter 2 and the artwork is outstanding. All of it is fantastic. I would love all of these artists to submit everything they've got to the CS.

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

okay ^^

I'm gonna do the storyteller, but that's not it! Just what I'm gonna get on with right away...

Clueless's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Consider it claimed - any idea what your eta looks like?

Ur-Priest's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

ummm it's already done... I've put it on the forum ^^

Clueless's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Found it! Do you need me to do coloring for you, and if youll PM me the correct name to credit you by... Smiling

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Actually, almost all the new faction symbols are in progress at this thread. The only thing ive been waiting for is Primus's permission to use his new Athar design, and news back on if the ring of snakes for the sodkillers is canon or not (which influences the new draft considerably).

And on the list above, you said that the fated and the Bleak Cabal have already been done by TSR. Are you keeping the old symbol, or using the new ones? Because I wasn't aware that there were any post faction war symbols floating around.

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Did the Fated and the Cabal update their images post Faction War? (Tis a minor detail I wasn't up on if so) I'm wanting to focus attention on the ones we know we don't have an example of, so we don't end up burning out artists on things that we don't critically need. Once we get the stuff we need, we can swing back around and pick up the less critical stuff. Smiling

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

All things considered, the factions' exile from the Cage was dramatic enough an event that it wouldn't surprise me if many of the factions altered their emblems in commemoration. Looking through Faction War, I didn't find references to altered symbols except for descriptions of symbols for the new/splinter factions.

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

I would like to do the cityscape drawings, but I would really like some more detail before I start ^^

also I think I'll work on the 3rd ritual drawing, and maybe some factioneers, though I don't want to claim any yet, since I'm not sure when/which ones I'm gonna do...

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

How detailed are you looking for? The cityscapes I mentioned are described in detail in chapter 7 - should I crack open my copy and pull the relevant details out? Are you looking for suggestions on lighting and crowd levels? And was there a particular one you wanted details on?

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

I'll do the prestige races (should be interesting) and A'kin, for starters. I'll work on a few factioneers, too, but I'll have to see where the Muse takes me before I tell you which ones. Eye-wink

I should ask--in 2e, the archetypal factioner was usually the factol. Shall we steer clear of that this time around?

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Alright, I'm currently working on the mortuary, you should expect it in a day or two... These colored drawings take much longer to complete than B&W ones...^^

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Hm... I see no reason to avoid them - folks are going to want to know what the bloods look like. That way we can also have more than one factioneer illustration one for the factol, one for namer or others... I know princessbunny had a series of some earlier (but I've not gotten her permission yet to snipe those).

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Don't forget that we need a black and white *and* colored version of it for low res versions of the pdfs. Eye-wink So once you get to a pause point in the line work...

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

well basicly if I plan on coloring a piece, I don't shade it and stuff, so it won't look so good without any "depth" as a line work.

I can finish a B&W drawing with shading and everything in about 1~2 hours, but coloring takes WAY more than that ^^

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Gotcha. Okies Smiling

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Maybe for chapter 2 or 7, their could be a scene where all of the major Planescape races (and major races from the different D&D campagins, from Forgotten Realms to Spelljammer to Eberron) can be found in a single tavern. I know this would be a big pic, but you have to admit it would look pretty cool.

Anyone interested, cause I can't draw really well.

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

That would definately be cool - consider it added in.

Also - other assignments updated regarding whose claimed what.
I'm going to make a habit of pestering artists once a week (probably Tuesdays) to catch up with where you are in your project and so on. Smiling So expect to have me popping up in your email shortly. Eye-wink

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Hi,
At first- my english is quite good, so forgive me any mistakes.

I'm interest in drawning art for the Planescape setting, too! Smiling
I draw fantasy and SF graphics. I don't have a gallery, but here you've got black&white scan example:

[img=http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1234/robotostatecznawersjasx1.th.jpg]

I actually have a lot work to do, and I need 3 or 4 weeks to finish it. Then, I will start to draw some pictures... Cool
PS:
I'd like to do graphics of any creatures or characters (races, factioneers etc.) if it possible.

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It seems no one noticed...

but I've posted (and claimed) a couple of drawings.

The first one is the Mortuary cityscape image,

and the second is the 3rd Ritual Magic image.

Thanks!

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Updated with your claims - I'll go through the posts later today and make sure I've noted all the things that have been submitted / claimed. Smiling

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Clueless, have you gotten my water and fire genasi pictures? I sent them well before A'kin and Fell. If they hipped off to the Astral I'd be happy to resend them.

XMan's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

My art can be found here:

Here

and

Here

If planewalker.com thinks its up to snuff, let me know and I'll take a look at the lists.

~X

Zerdal's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Hey man! What about me, at all !?

Clueless's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

You're on Smiling

You seem to have a liking for portraits - there's a sizable list of folks under chapter 6 and 7.

Also - we're desperately in need of someone who really likes landscapes and is good at achieveing that sort of depth needed for terrian and cities. So if you've got an interest in that - go ahead and take a crack at some of these if you like. Smiling

Pretty much - feel free to pick up anything off the list.

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

You are *definately* good for it. Go right ahead. I'm sorry I took so long to get back to you on this - I honestly thought I'd sent you a PM already to tell you this.

Just lay claim to pics in the first post (or point me to places where you have laid claim).

I got eaten by work - as I'm sure folks noticed - over the last few weeks. It was the return of freshmeat on campus so there's been days where I just came home and passed out after helping them with their computers. I'm now getting caught back up on all the threads everyone's been working on while I was gone. Smiling

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

*bump* Art list partially updated with done and claimed works.

Duster's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

I could propose my friend to ink and/or redraw his fiend & modron collection.
He has drawn most of the fiends(Baatezu,Tanar Ri & Yugoloths) from the 2nd edition and all of the modrons.

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

We'd be glad to have him pitch in, you may want to look at the first post in this thread - it has the ongoing list of what we need done.

Duster's picture
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

He he, we could do some characters from our campaign in some of the scenes from the cities, skills/feats, etcetera...

Kobold Avenger's picture
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factotums
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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

If you haven't got a map of the Outer Planes yet, there's mine at:

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/48813933/

I'm going along and starting to colour the map of the Inner Planes that I have.

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Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Umm, I've got a little bit of problem.
One of my long year friends and gaming buddy and I have started a creativity brain thrust and we started working on this project, bit by bit from the shadow so to speak.

I've got seven pictures of factioneers done by my friend for the project(and some photoshopping help from little vane me), but I don't know who is in charge of the project.

I would suppose it's Clueless, but I think she is unreachable for the time, or something :oops: . I've sent some messages and mail but didn't get response yet.

Unfortunately my friend is a bit shy and may be at loss with internet literacy/connectivity to communicate here (I've signed him up, but I don't see that he has posted anything in last two months Puzzled ).
I don't want to nag or anything, but I'd like some guidlines.

Sorry for rambling.

Clueless's picture
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Webmonkey
Joined: 2008-06-30
Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

I got em! No worries - I've just not been in a good spot to look them over the last few days - bear with me. Smiling It's friday - so I've got time now.

Duckluck's picture
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Factor
Joined: 2006-10-10
Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

Yeah, Clueless can be pretty darn busy at times. Apparently, running a website is hard work. Who knew?

Clueless's picture
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Webmonkey
Joined: 2008-06-30
Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

LOL it's not so much the running of it - it's the trying to figure out what's making our hosting service upset with us, making sure multiple projects work out for the chapters, artwork etc, and making sure i get fed/sheltered and all that all at the same time. Smiling

Duster's picture
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Namer
Joined: 2006-06-14
Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

I didn't wanted to nag or anything, sorry for the trouble :oops: .

I just wanted to see if someone got them.
Also sorry for spamming this thread, you can delete all the useless posts if it's no problem.

I'm not a very frequent visitor and I have just begun reading various subforums after being registered for more than a year.
I haven't get to know anyone on the forums so I didn't know who to contact except the admin Shocked .
I'm not getting around yet, but I'm getting there, I'll be posting more soon, as I'm getting into ins and outs of this forum.
_cheers.

Clueless's picture
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Webmonkey
Joined: 2008-06-30
Artwork Thread: Needs and Desires

No problems - and honestly - as many projects as I keep in the air - pestering me about some of them is the best way to bring my attention to them. Eye-wink As for where to start - RPG Discussion is usually a good spot - in fact I think there's a 'new to the site' orientation thread there that you may want to check out.

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