Thanks, those are all the reasons I chose. I wanted to create something that managed to be wonderful, amazing, and useless at once. Also, I wanted to prevent the PCs from effectively going on a rampage with it. Planescape's Powers are very remote and terrifying.
The only reason I chose a Sword was that it was kind of a joke on Stormbringer and the idea that some people had for something more mechanical. It's also something the PCs could fit on their person and steal.
Any ideas on how to get the PCs into this mess?
My Idea
I think the Old Ways are best. We should run it like Planescape Torment with two obvious factions for the PCs to choose from and some complications in how to handle it.
I think that when the PCs arrive at Athar HQ, they're going to find themselves confronted by the heads of both factions (small F) within the Faction (Big F).
The Athar are in chaos. The militant faction has used God-Killer to sever a Level 1 Demigod (possibly the Former God of the Gnolls) from his worshipers and the Quasi-Deity is now being held prisoner in the Athar's Headquarters where they intend a show trial for his "crimes" before they intend to find him guilty and sentence him to death or more or less force him to recant his divinity.
The Liberal Faction is utterly appalled by this and only the fact they're more concerned about divine vengeance and keeping this quiet is keeping them from attacking their brethren for doing something monumentally stupid. The PCs, conducting their own investigation into the matters, get wrapped up in things because there's no real hiding what's going on once they visit faction HQ.
If they side with the Militant Faction, basically, they want the PCs to participate in the show-trial against the Gnoll Deity and help in the cover-up where Godkiller will be taken along with it's notes to a safe place that it can be secured against divine retribution/theft. The PCs may find more than a few divine spies have to be gotten rid of to protect the secret of the weapon (The militant faction has a few fanatics as well but mostly their leader just intends to make a point).
If the PCs side with the Peace faction, then they have to break into the Militant Faction and grab Godkiller before taking it off to be destroyed. The Peace Faction, correctly, figures that if they voluntarily destroy the weapon then they'll be largely left alone by the powers.
The PCs can probably do both, aiding in the Trial of the Gnoll God and then taking Godkiller to be destroyed.
I would advise against this. First, I don't agree that the Athar would ever be forgiven by the Powers if they did this. Mortals who trifle with Deities don't often get happy endings. If they use Godkiller, especially if the use results in the death of a power, they will never be able to leave the base of the Spire, which runs contrary to the objectives of the module set.
Additionally, there exsists the strong chance that the Spire base would go down under determined attack from the servents of various powers. Even a handful of Deva-scale entities could cause some serious problems. They'd be weakend due to the Spire's effect on magic, of course, but if anything that would effect the Athar's mortal soldiers more (no buffs, stat boost items, etc). Please note that Terrance was 19th level, according to Factol's Manifesto, and that the other faction members detailed in that book were 4th and 9th level. While I'm sure that the Faction has plenty of other members of higher level, I think this goes to show that the average faction member is not extreamly high level. Factions have gone down in the past if a significant portion of their leadership was isolated or killed (I believe the LoP took down two like this).
Third, in as much as killing gods represents a disturbance of the Balance, the Athar could be facing determined assault by the Rilmani as well as the Powers. In which case their goose is really cooked.
Fourth, I find it hard to believe that the Godkiller could have been constructed and housed in the main Athar encampment. It could have been built in a smaller one also at the base of the Spire, but...I would imagine that it's creation involved powerful magic, so... I had imagined that the Godkiller was constructed at a secret base on the Astral, by small number of people.
Fifth, the thing I like most about the Godkiller is that it is so clearly powerful, but so clearly can never be used. I can just imagine a group of PCs trying to figure out what to do with this thing. To introduce it already used steals most of that mistique and the potential for quiet panic.
Finaly, Southern Oracle has said that he doesn't want to put a god on trial.
Up to you, I'm all enthusiastic about it.
Frankly, also, gods are killed or deposed by mortals left and right in other settings.
Pretending that this is somehow THAT MUCH DIFFERENT is disingenuous to our audience.
I frankly think that we miss a great opportunity of the Athar to actually DO SOMETHING against the gods. My enthusiasm for this module is mostly based around the idea that the Athar finally prove that yes, we CAN stand up to the gods rather than just sitting around and kveching about them.
Yeah, gods have been killed in Planescape, too.
The exact quote was
As far as establishing the Athar as a faction to be recond with, I think blowing up the Temple of Hades goes a long way twards that, as does establishing their bases around the Spire, especially if we give them Mirror Magic (established bases means established faction high ups and means of gathering info. Mirror magic means they can used divination type things despite the presence of the Spire).
As I noted above, I prefer to introduce the Godkiller unused. It is an artifact, after all. As long as we don't introduce a way to destroy it, it won't be going anywhere any time soon.
One way to make sure that nobody uses an artifact: write "I Love the Lady of Pain" on it and chuck it into Sigil.
The exact quote was
As far as establishing the Athar as a faction to be recond with, I think blowing up the Temple of Hades goes a long way twards that, as does establishing their bases around the Spire, especially if we give them Mirror Magic (established bases means established faction high ups and means of gathering info. Mirror magic means they can used divination type things despite the presence of the Spire).
As I noted above, I prefer to introduce the Godkiller unused. It is an artifact, after all. As long as we don't introduce a way to destroy it, it won't be going anywhere any time soon.
Well, honestly, I've devoted a lot of time to the Trial business because I'm not honestly interested in the Rimali or any of the other creatures at the base of the Spire that much. Frankly, they're just another collection of Planescapes tremendous variety of freaks. On the other hand, the issue of a Power on Trial is immediately catchy and offers a tremendous roleplaying opportunity.
Also, I was pretty sure that the "Every Mirror in Creation Breaks" was the result of Godkiller being used. Honestly, I think we need a plothook to move this entire story on and for me, the best plot would be to arc this entire module around Godkiller's use.
Godkiller being constructed by Magic
Godkiller being Used.
Godkiller shatters every mirror in creation.
The Players track the disturbance to Sigil.
The Athar's plot to destroy the Temple.
The God Trial.
Then the Players having to destroy Godkiller or figuring some way to recharge it so the Athar are protected against the God's Revenge forever in the Mirror Zone.
I can think of a lot of ideas for this plus the Balance creatures and so on could definitely be investigated. But honestly, my entire draw is the God Trial and the Athar's internal politics over having the authority to strike back, directly, at the gods.
I don't think that you really have a HOOK so good as this kind of Artifact.
If I may just say, CP, it's all a matter of interests. Judging from your posts, you seem particularly interested in the religious aspects of the setting. While an entirely valid preference, it's not all that common. I've learned that most people shy away from this, whether because they find it too controversial or too boring, and focus on the philosophical aspect instead. Most, including myself, see the Rilmani not as one of the many freaks (or powerful goblins with metallic skin), but the champions of balance and neutrality. Judging the various planar races by their beliefs, as such, provides for far more possibilities than simply seeing them as part of a menagerie of odd monsters.
That having been said, and keeping in mind that I'm not doing much for this adventure except adding my occasional opinion, I see the merits of both paths for an adventure, but not the same one. It's just too much to take in. Either you have the Kamarel's return with all that it entails or you have a deity trial. In fact, one might lead to another.
That was my two cents...er... paragraphs.
I too would split the two ideas apart and handle them in different modules. They otherwise overshadow each other and that just causes bad writing all around.
Since Mirrors focuses so *strongly* on the Kamerel and the Rilmani threads - as it's name implies... let's stick with that idea for this module set - and use the religious trial topic for a different project.
Yep, I'm moving my god trial ideas and the like over here.
I welcome anyone's contributions.
[url]/forum]
Could have two related, but separate, adventure paths like in Dead Gods.
>_>
<_<
I think it’s time for another one of these:
Broken Glass: In which there is a great Shattering of mirrors, and our Heroes arrive in Mirage, a city near to the Spire.
The Lost: In which the Heroes become acquainted with the ways of those Athar who hide in the Shadow of the Spire.
Mirror Magic: In which the Heroes travel through Sigil and the lands by the Spire in search of the lost secrets of Mirror Magic.
Spire Mine: In which the Heroes investigate the theft of ore from the Athar's Mines.
Defiers: In which our Heroes become acquainted with the ways of those Athar who tempt the Shadow of the Lady.
End of the War: In which the Struggle between the Athar and the Temple of Hades reaches its Conclusion.
???: In which something connected to a God-slaying device will occur.
The Palace of Broken Mirrors: In which the Heroes brave the dangers of the Palace of Broken Glass and the Forbidden Quarter of Mirage, and learn a Great Secret.
Shattered Dreams: In which our Heroes travel to the Place on the far side of all Mirrors, and find there Reflections of the Past.
I'll post more later (probably tomorrow...er...later today), however, the things we need to know now are:
1) How do we get the PCs involved with Charles Phipps’s Godkiller Artifact? I think it was constructed on the Astral, and that it should be introduced unused and remain unused, and that it should finish the Module intact (i.e., we shouldn't introduce a means of destroying it). But that doesn't really tell us much.
2) What caused the Shattering? We think it was caused by the Kamerel artifacts in Mirrage, but who by? Was it the Athar? If so, what were they trying to accomplish, if not, then who and why?
EDIT: Oops, wrong thread. Oh well.
To continue . . .
As far as our chosen NPCs go:
I propose that Unity of Rings and Center of All are both old enough to remember the Kamerel civilization. As such, the PCs will likely speak with them at least once during the course of the modules. Unity will likely be interviewed in the Mirror Magic chapter, and it should also be suggested to the PCs that they seek an audience with Center of All at this point, as well. Unfortunately, most everyone believes that Center of All lives in Sum of All, the Rilmani capital. While the PCs might gain access to Sum of All during Mirror Magic or Spire Mine, they won’t be able to get an audience with Center of All. After all, the rule of Center of All is that every spot in the multiverse is equally the center of everything. As such, Center of All is just about the only Aurmech Rilmani who doesn’t dwell in the center of the Outlands, instead wandering throughout all the Outer Planes, as well as the Material and Elemental Planes. The PCs will likely meet Center during Broken Mirrors or Shattered Dreams.
As far as Rule of Three goes, I think the Militant Athar are buying weapons and information from him. In specific, the Temple Bomb is procured through his contacts.
As you can see, we’ve filled in the fourth-to-last chapter, and have only one left. As such, if everyone is good with what we've got I think we can start with write-ups for our adventures.
Is the Spire Butterfly a part of this adventure? (see http://mimir.net/monsters/butterfly.shtml)
They might be a way for certain "magical" effects to work.
As for Free Will-
While the Athar do believe that the Gods are Just Folks(powerful bashers, but not really the forces behind Creation they claim to be), they DO recognize that the "Gods" are LIVING Just Folks.
How many of them would be upset at the idea of murdering Living Beings just to make a philisophical point? Is murder the right tool to change the Multiverse?
And wouldn't policing the "Gods" make the Athar "Overgods", who STILL aren't the real force of the Great Beyond?
Another thought-
If all mirrors shatter, what happens to anything moving THROUGH a mirror at the time?
There could be a major influx of undead Kamerel. Perhaps the "Shatterborn" become a real problem for people stuck on the "outside" of the glass.
Imagine an undead made of broken glass and negative energy, skimming the portal surface from mirror to mirror, killing with hails of level-draining shards, creating spawn from the captured life energy reflections of their victims.
The Shatterborn sound like fun. A little something to keep the PCs' minds on the task at hand: Undead mirror creatures raising a ruckus.
As a final thought for tonight:
Will post more eventually.
I have a rough and quite incomplete set of stats for the Shatterborn. Take a look- it's complex, but I think it's perfectly deadly, and appropriate for the adventure.
I don't know how to post a file into the forum. Any help?
Nary a clue.
Did you use tables? If not, you could just copy-paste the text into a forum post.
If that's not possible, you could just copy-paste the Special Abilities/Special Qualities for now, if that's enough for us to get the idea.
Well, It's BIG- but:
What appears to be a simple shard of refective glass suddenly expells a hideus, unnatural creature. Roughly humanoid, it's body is composed of steaming Negative Energy and thousands of shards of glass that flows around it like water. Vague features can be seen on it's “face”. Glowing white eyes regard you with pure hate as it flyes to the attack.
Shatterborn are undead horrors birthed when a mortal is killed while passing though a mirror into or from the Mirror Plane, such as when the mirror is shattered while in transit. They are in constant agony from their own glass constantly cutting into them. They are beings without a home, able to see into both into the Mirror Plane and out of the mirror but never able to truly escape the surface reflection. Thus, they despise all things. Possessing no memory of their former lives, a Shatterborn desires only to spread misery by killing and creating more Shatterborn.
COMBAT
Though nearly mindless, a Shadowborn retains a high animal cunning that makes it a deadly opponant. Usually the first sign a mirror is inhabited is when the Shatterborn casts shatter on reflective items that the characters posess. A Shatter born is a vicious opponant, foucing on weaker characetrs, such as wizards and rogues, and dragging them into mirrors. If trapped or pressed in combat, a shatterborn will use it's Slicing Storm to clear away foes.
Shard Spray (Sp): Every other round, as a partial action, a Shatterborn can expel a 30ft. cone of razor sharp glass shards. All beings caught in the storm take 2d8 points of damage. A Reflex (DC 15) save halves the damage.
Slicing Storm (Su): A Shatterborn can dispoerse itself in a blinding storm of glass and negative energy over. The storm is a 30ft. Circle, centered on the Shatterborn. This does 5d8 damage (Reflex DC 18 for half) to anything in the area. Beings subject to level drain must also make a Will (DC 18) save or suffer 1d4 points of strength drain. A shatterborn must spend a round drawing the energy and glass back to itself. It may not take any actions during this time, and is considered prone. A shattterborn cannot use shard spray for 1 round after reforming, nor can is use slicing storm on a round immidiately after using shard spray. Slicing Storm may only be used once every 5 rounds.
Engulf (Ex): The shatterborn's cloud-like nature allows it to move into or through a square occupied by a character or object of it's own size or smaller. Anything caught inside a shatterborn automaticly take damage as though they had touched the shatterborn (see shard skin), once every round they are engulfed. Anything inside is considered to have 50% cover, and is -2 on skill and attack rolls due to distraction by the flying glass. The shatterborn cannot use Shard Spray on an engulfed foe, though they get a +5 circumstancal bonus on attack and grapple rolls. However, using slicing storm requires the shatterborn to move at least 5ft (1 square) out of an occupied square.
Reflection Theft (Su): If a shatterborn makes a sucessful touch attack, it may attempt to drag the victem into a mirror. This counts as a move action. The Shatterborn must come into contact with any broken mirror, or use mirror skip to enter a mirror diectly. They must remain in contact with the victem during this process. The victem may make a DC 20 Will roll, or escape the grapple, to resist, which means that the abilty has no effect. If a character fails, they are drawn into the strange realm of reflection that the shatterborn inhabit. During this time, they gain the mirror trapped quality. However, they cannot leave the mirror they are trapped in. They cannot attack the shatterborn that has attacked A charcter can make a DC 20 Str roll once per round to escape the mirror. Success means the character is expelled into an adjecent square on either side of the mirror (the Mirror Plane or the plane the mirror reflects) Every round, the trapped must make a Will DC 15 save or loose 1d4 levels due to negative energy drain. A character that looses all levels dies, and is subject to the create spawn ability. While a shatterborn is trapping a reflection, they cannot take any actions, and must remain in the mirror. By leaving the mirror, the shatterborn releases the character to the same side of the mirror the shatterborn move into. The released appears within 5ft of the shatterborn if this happens.
Create Spawn (Su): Any creature killed by the level drain effect of Reflecion Theft rises as a new Shatterborn 1 round later. The new Shatterborn has no memories of it's fromer life and will attack living beings (like former companions).
Mirror Trapped (Su): Shatterborn are dependent on broken mirrors. In all cases, the mirror must be broken, which is at the very least cracked. It must also still be able to reflect. A piece of mirror as small as 1 inch square is suitable. The mirror need not be of glass- reflective ice, crystal, even silvered metal is fine. The mirror must be solid- water and such, while reflective, do not count. They cannot willingly move more then 50ft from a mirror, nor can they move out of the sight of a mirror. Any size mirror, so long as it is broken and reflects, can hold a shatterborn. They are not intelligent enough to carry a mirror with them, however. Only 1 shatterborn, and a victem, may inhabit a mirror at any one time. While in a mirror, they cannot be atttacked, and they cannot hear, smell, or feel outside forces. They CAN see normally, and see through both sides of the mirror at once. Spells and spell-like abilites act as normal, however. Breaking an inhabited mirror only works if the mirror is only effective if the mirror is completely annihilated, such as with Disintegrate. Otherwise, the Shatterborn(or it's victem) remains within the largest shard. A destroyed mirror ejects the occupant(s) on a squre adjecent to the mirror, on either side. Completely blocking a mirror from reflecting (from either side), by using darkness, throwing a cloak over it, ect., traps the shatterborn. If it is trapped within the mirror, it goes dorment, as though under a temporal stasis effect. If trapped outside of the mirror, and they loose sight of any broken mirrors, a shatterborn takes 1d10 points of damage per round, and is considered shaken (-2 to all rolls). A shatterborn in this state will attempt to find another broken mirror above all else.
Mirror Skip (Sp): As a move action, a Shatterborn may use an ability similar to dimention door. This only works on a mirror that a Shatter may inhabit, and then only if the mirror is within 50 ft. A Shadowborn may not Mirror Skip while it holds a victem for Reflection theft.
Spell-Like Abilities (Su): 1/round: shatter
There's a little more, but this gives you the rough idea. Complex, yes, but I think it might actually be easy in execution.
I agree with you, on both counts. It's pretty complex, yet at the same time it's probably easier to run than might first be guessed.
One thing I'd definitely consider is either dropping Engulf (to cut down on the number of special abilities and the interactions between them), or giving the Shatterborn the Swarm subtype and substituting the Engulf ability for a standard Swarm attack.
Also, you forgot to post the Shard Skin ability, which is referenced by Engulf.
Oh, the Shard Skin references the skin of a Shatterborn-
Shard Skin(ex): Due to the constant flow of cutting glass along a Shatterborn's skin, anything that comes into contact with a Shatterborn(via touch, attack with a natural weapon or melee weapon, or by being Engulfed) automaticly takes 1d6 damage. The touch of Shard Skin also drains 1d4 points of STR (Fortitude DC 18 to resist)
I also wanted to know if the Godkiller was set in stone.
I had the idea that it might be something truly creepy(at least in a fantasy setting)- a true Gun, or perhaps Gunne. Something that is the Mother Of All Firearms, literally. Such a thing might be able to kill almost ANYTHING, even concepts, or states of being (like godhood)
I had the idea that it might be something truly creepy(at least in a fantasy setting)- a true Gun, or perhaps Gunne. Something that is the Mother Of All Firearms, literally. Such a thing might be able to kill almost ANYTHING, even concepts, or states of being (like godhood)
It's not (set in stone, that is).
In fact, I kind of suspect that the best way to handle the Godkiller is to leave its appearance up to the individual DMs, and just offer suggestions.
Hi there I'm new to the thread but since I'm definitely interested in the next planes changing adventure module, there might as well be some of my salt in the soup. Here are what I think and wonder so far:
- What is this plane of mirrors? In the manual of planes (3e) entry it is told as a completely different place than what I read here.
-Where does this thing about mirror magic working near the spire come from? Is tehere an official source for this is it just a write-up for convenience?
-Am I the only one here that the Shattering should not happen right at the beginning of the module? I think it should somehow be connected to what the PCs do in the first one or two chapters of the adventure - this will give them a feeling of responsibility.
The ideas seem too far apart. We have the god slayer weapons, the trial of gods, the kamerel - rilmani issue, doppelganger city, AND the shattering. Of course you can still somehow connect all of them together, but it will still be hard. The idea that they should be turned into two separate games is, IMO, a good decision.
-How does the module affect the life on the planes at the end of the day? Remember, there is a promise at the PSCS (chapter 3)that, 4 or so years from now, the majority of the outer planes will be very very close to an unprecedented conflict of beliefs, ideas and ideals - probably caused by the warmongering of the factions. Looking from this angle, I think the Athar should somehow sthrengthen their hold in the Outlands with the developments in this module, and other factions should also get at least some attention - they don't seem to have any right now.
Well this is what I have in mind so far, hoope I can be of more help in the future:D
I love this idea. While I'm not too crazy about it being a sword, I love the properties of the Artifact itself. It's clearly a great accomplishment on the part of the Athar. It attacks a Power through the deprivation of worship, the dependency on which was one of the Athar’s key arguments against the divinity of the Powers.
It’s also completely useless. It’s not powerful enough to actually kill a Power, and worse, is only one shot. At the same time, it’s powerful enough to make the Powers sit up and take notice. You can see that most members of the Athar would be furious if they found out about the project, since if news ever gets out it’ll sign a death warrant for the whole faction.
No matter how you slice it, getting involved with this weapon is a nightmare scenario for any group of PCs. So of course I think we should make sure the PCs get involved.
Did we ever figure out what caused the Shattering?