Proposed Project Timeline

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Clueless's picture
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Webmonkey
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Proposed Project Timeline

I'm reposting the information one of the folks attending the session (SouthernOracle) pulled together for us as a schedule and outline for the release:

Proposed Project Timeline
• September: Section A
• October: Section B
• November: Section C (Part One complete)
• December: Section D
• January: Sections E and F (Part Two complete)
• February: Sections G and H
• March: Section I (Part Three complete)
• April: Introduction and Supplemental Material
(adventure is complete and released for 3.5)
• May: 4E conversion

I.    Introduction
    a.    Campaign Assumptions
        i.    Faction War took place as written
        ii.    The Athar are at the base of the Spire
        iii.    Rules set is 3.5
    b.    Story Background
    c.    Flowchart of Events
    d.    Faction Attitudes
II.    Part One
    a.    Section A
        i.    Level 3
        ii.    Multiple starting points depending on the campaign setting
    b.    Section B
        i.    Level 4
        ii.    Interchangeable with Section C
        iii.    Includes scaling instructions
    c.    Section C
        i.    Level 5
        ii.    Interchangeable with Sections B and D
        iii.    Includes scaling instructions
III.    Part Two
    a.    Section D
        i.    Level 6
        ii.    Interchangeable with Sections C and E
        iii.    Includes scaling instructions
    b.    Section E
        i.    Level 7
        ii.    Interchangeable with Sections D and F
        iii.    Includes scaling instructions
    c.    Section F
        i.    Level 8
        ii.    Interchangeable with Sections E and G
        iii.    Includes scaling instructions
IV.    Part Three
    a.    Section G
        i.    Level 9
        ii.    Interchangeable with Sections F and H
        iii.    Includes scaling instructions
    b.    Section H
        i.    Level 10
        ii.    Interchangeable with Section G
        iii.    Includes scaling instructions
    c.    Section I
        i.    Level 11
        ii.    Multiple conclusions depending on the campaign setting
        iii.    Story hooks for continuing the arc
V.    NPCs
    a.    Major
        i.    Center-of-All (N male aurumach rilmani)
        ii.    Factol Jaya Forlorn (NG female human ex-cleric 7/fighter 2/defier 5 Athar)
        iii.    Hobard (CN male githzerai wizard 11/fist of divinity 2 Athar)
        iv.    Rule-of-Three (CE male marquis cambion scout 6)
        v.    Unity-of-Rings (LG male movanic deva proxy of Tyr)
    b.    Minor
VI.    Supplemental Material
    a.    Playing a nerra
    b.    Playing a rilmani
    c.    New magic items
    d.    Map of Sum-of-All (rilmani capital by the Spire)
    e.    Map of Refuge (Athar settlement by the Spire)

Dhampire's picture
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Namer
Joined: 2007-07-02
Proposed Project Timeline

Not that I do not agree with the outline but, if this is designed to be a follow-up to the Faction War, should not the level set be starting around the level cap of where that module ended?

Iavas's picture
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factotums
Joined: 2006-07-12
Proposed Project Timeline

It is probably a follow-up storywise, not necessarily involving the same PC's or requiring the same levels. Thank God for that, as 3p1C levels would really spoil it, in my opinion.

Clueless's picture
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Joined: 2008-06-30
Proposed Project Timeline

I'm thinking it would be very worthwhile to include a note in the appendix on suggestions for scaling it to higher levels, but I had had in mind supporting the newer campaigns and new parties in the post FW setting.

Hymneth's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-01
Proposed Project Timeline

Rule of three has 3.5 stats in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, I think. Don't know if you want to go with them, but the Cambion template is at least pretty good

Bob the Efreet's picture
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factotums
Joined: 2004-05-11
Proposed Project Timeline

'Hymneth' wrote:
Rule of three has 3.5 stats in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, I think. Don't know if you want to go with them, but the Cambion template is at least pretty good

I've heard a lot of criticisms about the cambion template, actually. It's possible that the marquis cambion template is usable, though - I haven't really seen either of them.

__________________

Pants of the North!

Southern_Oracle's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

The cambion template is considered pretty bad, and the author revamped it and posted the new build on EN World. I have the new info, but unfortunately I don't have a link to the original post. I'd like to use it, but we'd need to contact the author and get his permission.

Clueless's picture
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Webmonkey
Joined: 2008-06-30
Proposed Project Timeline

Shouldn't be too hard to get really. I'll see if I can track it down on ENWorld - who was the author again?

Southern_Oracle's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

I don't remember...and I don't have Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. Puzzled My Google-fu is very weak...I couldn't find it.

Lord Zack's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

Maybe this is it? http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/outsider/demon/cambion.htm

Southern_Oracle's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

No, that's not it. The revamped cambion is simply a set of substituted powers for the half-fiend template, to reflect that a cambion IS a half-fiend, but a special kind. But we don't need to get hung up on small details like that right now -- we need adventure ideas and writers! Anybody? Anybody?

The Great Hippo's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

Dumping the first ideas I posted here--they were very stupid and a result of not actually reading the *.pdf. I'll have some better ones up in another thread soon.

eldersphinx's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

Okay, the schedule as presented involved having the bulk of the first adventure finished at the end of September. Given that the first adventure is likely to be the simplest, mechanically speaking (fewer 'plotbreaker' PC abilities to anticipate and plan around, no need for plot interchangeability, no need for scaling rules) I don't think this sort of scheduling was a bad idea.

Close to two weeks have gone by since the schedule was posted. There are about ten days left in September, at present. Not much has been done aside from big-picture brainstorming and setting ideas that haven't really been either approved or vetoed by the project leads.

Clueless, SouthernOracle, I gotta say - from where I'm sitting, this project is suffering pretty badly from a lack of direction and leadership. Someone needs to be given the go-ahead to do a lot of detail work, and quick, or else the entire project timeline is going to be in a bad case of catch-up mode. At the moment, I don't really care who gets volunteered to do the writing... but I'm not contributing posts in order to have the entire project disintegrate because nobody ever had the responsibility or authority to nail anything down. :cry:

Iavas's picture
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factotums
Joined: 2006-07-12
Proposed Project Timeline

Wait... what *.pdf? There's a pdf detailing this project's goals? That would explain why I'm so lost.

Duckluck's picture
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Factor
Joined: 2006-10-10
Proposed Project Timeline

I'm pretty sure by PDF he means the PSCS, and yes, I'm just as lost as you.

Southern_Oracle's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

So far there have been a lot of posts saying, "Yeah, I'll write something," or "I'll get back to you when I've got more time," but no one's stepped up to the plate. If you want to write something, claim an adventure and get to work! I don't know anyone's writing strengths or weaknesses, and no one has volunteered for a section to receive more direction.

When there are specific writers willing to write, more direction and guidance can be forthcoming.

Laughing out loud

eldersphinx's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

'Southern_Oracle' wrote:
So far there have been a lot of posts saying, "Yeah, I'll write something," or "I'll get back to you when I've got more time," but no one's stepped up to the plate. If you want to write something, claim an adventure and get to work! I don't know anyone's writing strengths or weaknesses, and no one has volunteered for a section to receive more direction.

When there are specific writers willing to write, more direction and guidance can be forthcoming.

Laughing out loud


... wait, what?

This project hasn't been presented as a potluck. The timeline has Section A written first, then Section B, then Section C and so on. I wouldn't be expecting anyone to 'be willing' to write anything except the introductory adventure at this stage.

Southern Oracle, if there's any central direction to this beast other than level/CR guidelines for each adventure and a few thematic elements to be pitched in as allowed, come forward with it *in advance*, please. The notion that nobody's driving this stagecoach, and it'll go in the direction the first freelancer to take the reins decides, does not make me a happy contributor. :x

The Great Hippo's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

I'm not here to rock the boat and I understand that things are likely very busy on everyone's end, so this isn't an accusation of lethargy; but I agree with eldersphinx. If you're waiting for people to step forward and start producing articles on the fly, I don't think that's going to happen.

I'm definitely willing to start writing an article--tonight, in fact, if you'd like--and I'd happily start working on the introductory part. But I (and all of us, I think) need very specific direction. We need someone to step up and say "Okay, I need something that fits these specifications. Who wants dibs?"

Is it all right if I define all Prime campaign settings as a 'generic' prime? In writing this introduction, where ideally do I want the players to be at the end of the introduction (you mentioned dividing this up into separate 'plots'; should I take this into account? Dealing with the ruined temple in Sigil, the Athar at the base of the Spire, and the Kamarel in the Mirror-Realm--these won't necessarily be sequential events, but events that can occur completely separate of one another at different times?)? Is there any specific format you'd like this written in (I don't have any reference material for previous modules, sadly)?

I'll start writing something for Part A in a bit, at least something to get things moving, but because I'm pretty much a clueless when it comes to canon and also because I'm groping in the dark here I can't guarantee it'll be good for anything or even ultimately be functional.

Edit: Ultimately, what I mean is we need someone who says "This is an idea we will use. This isn't. This is the direction of the project, this isn't." Basically, someone who's overlooking the themes that are being presented. If these truly are non-linear events/adventures, it can be somebody different for each section, I guess (that might be confusing or weird though).

Southern_Oracle's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

I owe people an apology...apparently there HAS been discussion going on in the other thread, but I haven't received any email notifications from that thread -- only this one. So I will take the time to read what people have posted in the other thread before I nail plots down.

However, I also think that people may have misconstrued the timeline. I was not envisioning everyone working on each section in the order presented -- rather, I was envisioning teams working on each section concurrently, with those of higher level taking longer to complete. There are several reasons for this:

1. Each adventure should stand on its own, as well as fit into the story arc. We don't want to present an "all or none" project.

2. Several authors may already have a cool adventure idea they'd like to develop. (And indeed, several people said they already had ideas, but no one said what those ideas were.) People do their best when working on something in which they are interested; tying adventures together is much easier (for me) than righting a linear storyline. And since we'd like the middle adventures to be playable in any order, it's best to create connections after the fact.

3. Some writers have more time and/or are faster than others. If a team completes their project ahead of schedule, they can jump in to finish another or help tie things together.

From now on, let's keep this thread for discussion of the project's process, and the other thread for idea development. It's my fault that the other thread slipped under my radar; I'll keep tabs on both of them from now on.

Darkness_Elemental's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

'Southern_Oracle' wrote:
No, that's not it. The revamped cambion is simply a set of substituted powers for the half-fiend template, to reflect that a cambion IS a half-fiend, but a special kind. But we don't need to get hung up on small details like that right now -- we need adventure ideas and writers! Anybody? Anybody?

Is this it?
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?s=f30c50ec6d490120dc1482ab9c6746ad&p=3450386&postcount=31
Also might be
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?s=f30c50ec6d490120dc1482ab9c6746ad&p=3490732&postcount=34
If so, I don't think it was posted by the author of Ex to the DW Pits. Wolfgang Baur's user name appears to be Monkey_King. He apologized for the error, but I can't find a post by him with corrected stats. I'm not able to use En-World's search features, though, so this isn't conclusive.

Will post more later, since I have a couple ideas about how the module could fit together

Southern_Oracle's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

Yes, the first post is it. James Jacobs works for Paizo, although I don't know in what capacity he had anything to do with Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. But his cambion/alu-fiend stats are what I'd like to use. Laughing out loud

Darkness_Elemental's picture
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It is now officially "later"

So I've been reading through all the threads lately, and this is what I get for possible adventure modules.

Broken Glass: In which there is a great Shattering of mirrors, and our Heroes arrive in Mirage, a city near to the Spire.

The Lost: In which the Heroes become acquainted with the ways of those Athar who hide in the Shadow of the Spire.

Mirror Magic: In which the Heroes travel through Sigil and the lands by the Spire in search of the lost secrets of Mirror Magic.

Spire Mine: In which the Heroes investigate the theft of ore from the Athar's Mines.

Defiers: In which our Heroes become acquainted with the ways of those Athar who tempt the Shadow of the Lady.

???: In which something connected with Evil and Rule-of-Three might occur.

???: In which something connected to a God-slaying device might occur.

The Palace of Broken Mirrors: In which the Heroes brave the dangers of the Palace of Broken Glass and the Forbidden Quarter of Mirage, and learn a Great Secret.

Shattered Dreams: In which our Heroes travel to the Place on the far side of all Mirrors, and find there Reflections of the Past.

This obviously doesn't fulfill a number of the goals of the project. I don't know quite where Unity-Of-Rings fits in, nor Center-Of-All. As far as three modules about evil, three about good, and three about neutrality go, the first module is meant to be part of the neutral set, along with the last two. The ones concerning the Athar near the Spire are meant to be the good set, and one concerning the Athar in Sigil is meant to be the start of the evil set.

Some Explanation of what the heck I was talking about:

Broken Glass was meant to be focused on Mirrage, and The Lost on the Athar, but they could be folded into one, freeing up another module. Likewise, Palace of Broken Mirrors and Shattered Dreams could be folded together.

The PCs are not meant to find the secret of Mirror Magic in the Mirror Magic module, just go looking for it. This seems a good chance to introduce realms around the Spire, and to explore what connection, if any, Sigil has to the the whole affair.

The "Secret" meant to be learned in Palace is the location of the kamerel realm in the plane of mirrors.

I think the Athar in Sigil are diverting ore from the Spire Athar's mine to their own pet project, a god killing device.

They are probably also highly interested in Mirror Magic, and are pressuring the doppelgangers in Mirage to give them access to kamerel artifacts. The Shattering may have been caused by them.

The "Defier" module seems a good place to look at the actions of the Sigil branch of the Athar, as well as get a good look at how the place is being run these days. It could also serve up examples of how laxly or rigidly the Lady is enforcing her ban.
____________________________________________________

Finally, I think we could use some brainstorming on how our "major NPCs" can tie into this.

Southern_Oracle's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

I like the way you think. I dub thee "Organizer-at-Large." Laughing out loud

Darkness_Elemental's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

Sweet! That come with a hat? Smiling

Now we just need to get Hippo and Hymneth back in here so we can find out what the Athar in Sigil are up to, and what Unity-Of-Rings knows about Mirror Magic.

Hippo, Hymneth, :help!!: (had to use it)

The Great Hippo's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

I'm sorry, I'm so absurdly unorganized over here (and drowning in school work to boot).

Give me a while to reboot my brain and paw my way through some of the threads.

Southern_Oracle's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

Don't worry, Great Hippo. I've gotten TWO job promotions since I first took on this project, which have greatly eaten into my time. Add the holidays into the mix (and the fact that I work in retail), and it's easy to see that our timeline is pretty much shot (not to mention that the release of 4E has been pushed back a month, so a conversion to meet the timeline is out of the question).

I still want this project to continue, but we can move at a more leisurely pace (but let's not let it die! I still want a gold Ennie for Planewalker!). Laughing out loud

Hymneth's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

Hey man, I've been sitting waiting basically. I've only got time to chip in ideas really, but as long as the project is going somewhere I'm right there with ya. Getting temporarily derailed just got me out of the habit

Darkness_Elemental's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

Yeah, I'm buried under school work, too; so I hope I didn't offend anyone with that. The help! smiley just looked too cute not to use.

Charles Phipps's picture
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Proposed Project Timeline

I'm overworked as it is but I'm willing to contribute as well. I'd like some further information, however.

jonson's picture
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Re: Proposed Project Timeline

I've merely got time to break off in dreams really, but as extended as the scheme is disappearing anywhere I'm right present by means of yak.
easter status || april fool status || Mothers Day Wishes

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Nice Work..

I have had in brain at the bottom of the newer movement and new-fanged social gathering in the post FW location.
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