Post or Pre Faction War? When is your game set?

Sigil pre-Faction War is a very specific thing, with politics working in a certain way. I like it a lot, but the influence of those specific fifteen factions shapes the city heavily.

Post-Faction War, it can be almost anything. It should still be a place where philosophy is power, and it should still be essentially in balance, but there could be more influence from the elemental kingdoms and very different philosophies could rear their heads. New possibilities are opened up. With the portals rearranged, entirely new planes could be opened up. After the war, the cosmology might look entirely different. Or it could be basically the same, with the old factions working unofficially to the same goals.

I don't think one is better than the other. But if you have certain heretical ideas about what you want Sigil to be, post-Faction War (or pre-Great Upheaval) is probably your best bet.

Indeed, not all of the faction broke apart or left Sigil. A not inconsiderable number of them are still there in Sigil, but without official power. 'Official power' is debateable, considering the influence the Dustmen have over the mortician's guild, the Sensates have over the Entertainers guild, the Sodkillers and the Minders Guild, etc.

Then there's the Ring-Givers who openly exist as a faction in Sigil, though since there's no government set up by the other factions they don't have power like the old factions did.

Heck, in my own campaign I've gradually been having the factions creep back in ever so slowly. I've had the Athar retake the Shattered Temple, and this past weekend I had one ex-factol making a comeback for what she still considers to be hers. :twisted:

Actually - regarding that part about factions not interacting... I will say only this:

"Trust us."

As for pre/post faction stuff. A lot of the writeups *are* compatible between the two. You don't have to use the history, just the numbers and go with the old 2e history if you like.

As I said, the adventure seems primarily to me to be a DM's tool. When the DM wants to change Sigil drastically, the adventure gives a good catalyst for this change. If you want Sigil to stay mostly the same, I would put off playing it for awhile.

One thing I would change about the adventure itself is to make the PCs more involved with the set-up.

First, they have to be the ones who retrieve the Labyrinth Stone from Pandemonium. Maybe someone sends them to get it (not necessarily Darkwood), or maybe they just hear it's a relic of power and might be useful in some scheme of theirs.

Once they get it, they should find out quickly that a lot of different people want it. Alluvius Ruskin, Rowan Darkwood, and a barmy named Gifad are just three; there should be a lot more. Some might want it just so that it can be safely put away before it causes trouble. The PCs will find themselves the target of thieves, but ultimately they should probably be the ones to decide where it goes. Unless they really screw up.

Shroedinger's Gifad

This should decide Gifad's identity. Before this happens, who Gifad once was is entirely up for grabs - once the PCs put the gem in the hands of one of Sigil's denizens, fate takes its course and someone is mazed, someone is incarcerated in the Gatehouse for five hundred years, and someone suddenly realizes it's time for everything to begin again. I like the idea that it's the PC party's decision who that is.

Originally, I'm sure it was Rowan who became the ancient wizard. The PCs might even meet the barmy Gifad before the adventure starts and see that he's an old, scarred, one-eyed man.

But if they give the gem to Alluvius Ruskin, they might meet someone the Bleakers introduce as "the oldest Barmy" and see she's an old tiefling woman.

And maybe the gem goes to yet another hand, and the Oldest Barmy becomes an arcanaloth, or a red-headed human woman, or something else.

And history keeps changing, which changes the present, depending on what choices the PCs make. When dealing with time travel some strange things can happen.

Overall, I think there should be more free will in the adventure. It should be possible to prevent Karan from being arrested (although he'll probably be mazed regardless), or to save the Armory, or to prevent the release of the tanar'ri. The adventure makes these things seem impossible, but there is always a way.

One thing I really like is the suggestion at the end that the Lady might force the factions to switch places as penance for their part in the war, so the Harmonium has to dispose of corpses and the Dustmen are responsible for entertainment and sensation. Now that's what I call justice.

I really like that there... however it won't work for every NPC out there that you might place into the position of 'oldest barmy'. The thing that's tricky is that whoever you make it, they have to either have an obscenely long lifespan, not age, or be immortal.

Darkwood/Gifad fits this because while on Ysgard he's known to have had some sort of association with, or contact with a group of Prolongers. While not a prolonger himself, he doesn't apparently age during his 500 year incarceration in the Gatehouse...

Ruskin would work since Inantifers don't age normally anyways. However she'd need a constant supply of magic to stay alive. But of course the whole module is The Lady literally playing with Darkwood, and if you replace him with another person I can see things working out so that whoever you do replace him with, things just happen the way that they need to.

I prefer the pre-faction war setting. In fact, in my setting, the faction war will never occur, since I love the factions too much. While the main adventures my PCs go on all play out outside Sigil, the time between adventures practically always in Sigil and always involves at least one faction.

Heh, when I actually get to run my PS game, I plan on eventually running Faction War because I like the idea of a long & bloody war in an urban setting. Of course, my version will last more than 40 days. :twisted: When the dust settles, the shake-up will be dramatic enough to actually give a more intense meaning to the break up of the factions while at the same time allowing for the new body of beliefs to arise with the remnants of the old guard desparately clinging to their ways while all the feats, PrCs and relics of the former era struggle to find a new place amongst the faction free Sigil.

After all, you can kill a person, but you can't kill an idea.