I've been kicking this thought about for a while, and it's probably still not too well-defined. The idea is that when you step into a portal, you have to go somewhere before you can step out the other end. And you can't use either of the known transitive planes for all of the portals. In my notes, I've referred to this place as 'portalspace'. It occured to me the other day that this portalspace could be the fabled Ordial plane. Which would explain why nobody's seen it - interesting, since people use it every day. Then there's always the possibility that things could start going wrong in this space. Perhaps there are hostile creatures who live there, and start snatching people away mid-portal ride?
Portalspace
Thu, 2004-11-11 00:10
#1
Portalspace
Thu, 2004-11-11 13:33
#3
Portalspace
I remarked on something like this in Manteios, but I didn't flesh it out. Portalspace seems to me to be a space-that-is-not-a-space, akin to the Astral but without subjective time; I'm not sure what ramifications that would have towards those that dwelt within, though.
Fri, 2004-11-12 08:42
#4
Portalspace
A little OT, but anyway:
I read a science-fiction book that employed portals to some extent.
It was actually machines that created the portals and they employed them to access the minds of those that passed through them for computing and information gathering.
Nifty idea for an über villain.
Tue, 2004-11-16 20:07
#5
Portalspace
"...you can't use either of the know transitive planes for all the portals..."
From what I've read, ALL portals form conduits that pass through the Astral, like wormholes. Perhaps Portalspace is the environment INSIDE the conduit.
Wed, 2004-11-17 17:35
#6
Portalspace
From what I've read, ALL portals form conduits that pass through the Astral, like wormholes. Perhaps Portalspace is the environment INSIDE the conduit.
I'm fairly sure there are portals that go from the Outer Planes to the Inner. Or, at least, there are portals in Sigil that go to the Inner Planes.
Wed, 2004-11-17 17:50
#7
Portalspace
I know the Manual of the Planes talks about colour pools leading to the Inner Planes... I thought the Astral could get you pretty much anywhere, hence the conduits criss-crossing through the Silver Void. Is that not the case?
Wed, 2004-11-17 22:01
#8
Portalspace
I know the Manual of the Planes talks about colour pools leading to the Inner Planes... I thought the Astral could get you pretty much anywhere, hence the conduits criss-crossing through the Silver Void. Is that not the case?
It wasn't in Planescape. In the Planescape cosmology (used by planewalker.com), the Astral only leads between the Outer Planes and to the Material. The Ethereal is the plane that connects the Material Plane, the demiplanes, and the Inner Planes.
And yes, Planescape had portals linking the Inner Planes and Outer Planes directly. Not just in Sigil, either; there are portals in Moradin's realm connecting it with the Elemental Plane of Earth, and portals between places like Cania and the Paraelemental Plane of Ice mentioned in The Inner Planes sourcebook.
Thu, 2004-11-18 18:19
#9
Portalspace
I went back to my copy of the Guide to the Astral Plane, and it does indicate that it connects only to the Outer Planes and the Primes. It offers a really good explanation for it as well. So, correct me if I go astray here...
We have portals. Portals require a key, and may link ANY plane to ANY plane.
We have the conduits that connect the Primes directly to the 1st level of the various Outer Planes, passing through the Astral. They don't require a key.
We have the Astral's colour pools. No key.
We have the Ethereal's curtains. No key.
We have the Great Ring.
Then we have a number of planehopping spells. Perhaps the spells merely mimic nature, or maybe they make use of the mechanism that all interplanar connections share.
I'm an engineer, which kinda puts me in the category of real-life Guvner, so I want to know how this works.
Do all of these means of interplanar travel operate based on the same (meta)physics, or are there different rules at work, depending on the method used? I'd love to see a Grand Unification Theory of Portals, but maybe they truly are distinct phenomena.
In 3.5e, it's easy. The Astral is omnipresent. But the 2e rules make more sense philosophically. The Astral links the material world to the building blocks of thought and belief. The Ethereal links the material world to the building blocks of matter and energy. The two transitive planes are really polar opposites. But one thing that's always troubled me is why ghosts are on the *wrong* side of the tracks! They should be on the Astral, not the Ethereal. Unless they got there by 'running away from the light."
Fri, 2004-11-19 20:02
#10
Portalspace
ghosts are on the *wrong* side of the tracks! They should be on the Astral, not the Ethereal. Unless they got there by 'running away from the light."
I think that's basically it. Ghosts are those souls who do not wish to sever their ties to the material world. There's no way to haunt the site of your death, or things and people connected to it, from the Astral - it's too remote. The Ethereal is the only option, since it's coexistant with the Material Plane and ghosts presumedly have difficulty remaining in the mortal world for very long at a time.
And yeah, maybe the Ethereal is where you end up when you go in the exact opposite direction from "the light at the end of the tunnel." The tunnel seen in near-death experiences is, of course, an Astral conduit.
Also, the border Ethereal can be thought of as the ghost of the plane it borders in a way, or as a vast funeral shroud, a dark umbra, the spirit of that part of the world which has died but is unwilling to completely leave. And it's closer to the Negative Energy Plane than the Astral is.
As for theory:
Portals are essentially magic items, permanent spells designed to pierce the borders between dimensions.
Astral conduits are the silver cords of the astral projections of the Material Plane. The Outer Planes are therefore the wandering souls of the Material, which lies dreaming, unaware of those who walk upon it while the Outer Planes are very aware of its inhabitants, and responds to their beliefs and actions. Their role is to convey souls to their destined afterworlds.
Planar conduits are identical to astral conduits, except they connect outer planar layers to one another directly. Perhaps they formed as realms and layers in the Great Ring shifted and reshuffled over the centuries and eons.
Planar paths are like small outer planes that overlap the others, or they represent places where the various outer planes (and material planes, in some cases) leak and bleed into one another.
Planar breaches are much more violent planar leaks. Where something like the River Styx has slowly carved its river bed over eons, gently eroding the planar boundaries on a scale unperceptable to mortals, a planar breach is the result of a metaphysical disaster: an ethereal storm, cataclysmic spell, or conjunction fo the spheres.
Elemental vortices are the medium with which the material planes originally formed. They are the feeding and breathing tubes of the Prime. The Material Plane inhales through its air vortices, gets heat from its fire vortices, and discharges wastes into its ooze vortices.
Color pools are holes in the planes, the result of mortals traveling to the Astral Plane, a non-place where nothing was ever supposed to go. Or they result from astral conduits becoming damaged or destroyed. They are an intrusion of dimensionality into a zone with no inherit dimensions.
Wed, 2004-11-24 16:52
#11
Portalspace
:shock:
wow.... that much info just blew my mind. Im going to have to complety rethink how planescape works. Or how I think Planescape works. Or something.
Im going to go, cause my nose just started to bleed.
Wed, 2004-11-24 17:18
#12
Portalspace
Portals are essentially magic items, permanent spells designed to pierce the borders between dimensions.
[snip]
Planar conduits are identical to astral conduits, except they connect outer planar layers to one another directly. Perhaps they formed as realms and layers in the Great Ring shifted and reshuffled over the centuries and eons.
I guess the big question then is, what plane(s) does a conduit pass through if it links an Outer Plane to an Inner Plane? The thing I like about the 3.5e Astral is that it does connect to everything, thereby making the mechanics of interplanar travel much easier. Why spend your lifetime seeking the Grand Unification Theorem when you can re-invent the universe? I suppose some questions shouldn't have easy answers, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole physics of planar travel.
Wed, 2004-11-24 18:20
#13
Portalspace
I guess the big question then is, what plane(s) does a conduit pass through if it links an Outer Plane to an Inner Plane?
That's part of the reason behind my proposed portalspace. It solves that problem. It also brings up further questions:
Does the Lady control portalspace?
If not, how does she control Sigil's access to it?
What does this mean for the Infinite Staircase and the great planar rivers?
Thu, 2004-11-25 10:39
#14
Portalspace
well, heres a though:
What if portalspace is actually the 'outside the multiverse' thing thats mentioned in Kano's last missive?
a tunnel that leaves the Multivers, and them re-enters at another point.
that also brings into play the unltimate question:
what happens if the portal fails, and you are thrown outside? And what are the sats of those swarms of tentecal things?
Maybe thats how the mindflayers came into the multiverse, they were travelers that got stuck outside, became mindflayers, and managed to return home.
Or, alternitavly, what if one of the squid things was in the way of a potal whenit formed, and thats how it got tossed into the planes?
there are probably a bunch of reasons why this is a stupid idea, but It can't hurt to take a guess.
Sat, 2004-11-27 05:47
#15
Portalspace
As far as i see it, the place referred to in kano's last missive was the far realm. (a place beyond the concept of the planes where everything is somehow "wrong"...)
when I am Dming, I am using the option where the astral touches everything.
(for the lovers of the 2e planescape view portals to the inner planes could be more rare than those to outer planes because there are less beings worshipping entities residing there; my players, tough, couldn't care less, and most of the time, I decide which portals to where and when they find.)
Sat, 2004-11-27 18:59
#16
Portalspace
I guess the big question then is, what plane(s) does a conduit pass through if it links an Outer Plane to an Inner Plane?
Conduits don't connect Outer Planes to Inner Planes. Conduits are like the silver cords of the Material Plane; they travel only through the Astral.
Vortices connect the Inner Planes to the Material Plane, cutting through the Ethereal. They are the source and destination of materiality.
Am astral conduit and an elemental vortex are both natural phenomena. Portals are artificial constructs and don't have anything to do with conduits or vortices. Portals connect distant planes directly. They are like controlled planar breaches. You can't look at them from "outside" - you see only the two ends, if you happen to be there. They never manifest as tubes criss-crossing the transitive planes.
Perhaps everything is "really" in the same place, but only through the magic of portals and things like gate spells can this be fully realized.
Hey man, thats actually a great idea, have you thought of the kinds of monsters that live there?
maybe some fiends found away to portal sppace and are plotting, a way to use it in their war efforts and stuff
work on the idea, i think this could be great