Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

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Rrakkma: Legacy of Zerthimon is opening soon here at Planewalker, and we want to know: if the gith races ever went to all-out war with each other and with the illithids, who would win? Vote for your favorite and check back.

Keep in mind:
Illithids, though they no longer have a plane-spanning empire, still have all their insidious cunning and individual power. An illithid knows its enemies better and can exploit all of their weaknesses. It has massive psionic power, and can shred an adversary's mind with sadistic ease. They have thralls who are absolutely loyal and expendable, and they cover all races. Illithids have conquered entire Prime worlds before, and are certainly capable of doing so in the future. The more they conquer, the stronger they become, by devouring enemy brains and learning their secrets, by assimilating the advantages of victims into their newest bio-creations, and by enthralling enemies into their herds. Illithids may have lost their empire, but they remain more than capable of acting upon their ambitions from the shadows. Another not-insignificant advantage is the fact that mind flayers still have one power on their side- Ilsensine, following Maanzecorian's destruction, while the gith do not. Their influence extends farther than one would like to know. A mind flayer knows your thoughts, your fears, your hopes, and your weaknesses, and it has no mercy or regard for anything that is not illithid. An individual illithid is a significant power by itself, and mutliple illithids working together are a nightmare.

The githzerai, on the other hand, make up for what they lack in individual might with the power of many working as one. They are singularly devoted to the People, and they would gladly sacrifice anything for the whole. They swarm over their enemies with perfectly executed assaults, and focus all the chaos of their Limbo home into their bewildered enemies, while themselves remaining as calm as the eye of a storm. The githzerai know purpose, and they know determination. They are implacable foes, and once they set their strength to victory, they will channel their very being into the perfection of their martial arts, while their numerous enemies- the mind flayers, the githyanki, the slaadi- break against the stone of their united might. Their vigilance against betrayal and evil pervades every facet of their harmonious society, and every githzerai knows what the cost of failure is: destruction and obliteration for the People. The githzerai are fully devoted to the People by choice and freedom, not by coersion, and they are all the stronger because they choose their loyalty. In order to survive for as long as they have, the githzerai have devised tools to aid them in their struggle against all odds. The Zerth warriors weild their karach blades in guardianship of the githzerai people, civilization, traditions, and history. The anarchs control Limbo's mutability and can manipulate the plane around them. They have suffered and endured, and come out stronger for it. Endure. In enduring, grow strong.

Finally, the githyanki have turned that same vigor for survival to the extreme. These gith have lived for thousands of years, building their strength, watching their enemies, and biding their time for the perfect moment to strike and finish Gith's glorious vision of githyanki dominance. They have been wronged deeply by the illithid tyrants, and then by their cousins who turned against them in the hour of their victory, and they will not suffer weakness again. The githyanki know how to kill, and they do so efficiently and mercilessly. They hone thier minds and bodies to their peaks, and bend all resources available to their most beloved goal: crushing their enemies. The Vengeful Children of Gith are proud of their heritage and of their Astral kingdom, and defend it with a fanatical fervor that knows no limits. Githyanki knights and warlocks are terrifying in their devotion, and they bring the firepower of red dragons to the field. They have witnessed the death of gods and have recovered exotic materials and power from deep in the Astral. They know how feeble mercy and forgiveness are, and hold nothing back. A githyanki warrior will stop at absolutely nothing in the name of duty, and percieves everything as either an obstacle that will be cut down in the name of the eternal mother Gith, or a tool that can be used in her name.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

I dont think any could win, they would probily
a) reach a stalemate or
b) destroy each other
It would be unnatural for just one to destroy the others, and the githzerai and githyanki would probily side together against the illithid, then fight it out between them if it cam to that then I think (and hope) that the githzerai would win because their unification is out of choice and freedom unlike the githyanki please tell me if I an rambaling

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

I think it would depend pretty heavily on where they fought.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

I have to think that an all-out war between the three races would continue as a stalemate.

Then again, in my mind, unless a new generation of both races of gith warriors could be taught to trust each other implicitly; any alliance between races would be advantageous for the illithid.
Really, could there be a more uneasy alliance? And where there is distrust between allies, there is room for the most powerful of the illithid's weapons: intrigue and percieved betrayal.

Then again, I'm not an illithid. What do I know from multi-planar warfare?

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Good question. The Githyanki have an advantage of living on the astral plane, and if i remember correctly that means they have access to all those holes in the planes, so they can basicklly stirke anywhere at will. It would be an incredibly bad idea for them to attack limbo, what with the Githzeria completly wrecking them with their choas matter arsenal.
The mindflayers have the least to lose, since they have no empire to guard, but if they could confuse and distract the Githzerai using their telepathic poweres, The People may fall. Although, it all depends on how well the Githzeria can use those Karadh blades, that would be a sight to see.
In short, its impossible to tell, to many variables. Id hope for the Githzeria, but i have a baised opinion. Mainly because they're the one of the three least likly to mug me. You might as well ask who's winning the blood war. :twisted:

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

The githzerai are my favorites, but that's only because I'm a big githzerai fan :mrgreen:

I wouldn't give the ilithids much of a chance, since both the githzerai and the githyanki have probably developed very effective strategies against them, as well as ways to nullify their psionic power. Especially if all three of them went to war at once. Should the ilithid gain an advantage, it would be used as a reason for the gith to temporarily ally against them.

Realistically, I think that on even terms the githzerai would lose an all out battlewhen fighting the githyanki. But I don't see this as a realistic option since the githzerai are unlikely to engage the githyanki, (except in short, surgical strikes) outside of Limbo. And if fighting in Limbo, the githzerai have the advantage of familiar terrain (not to mention terrain control). Although, one must consider the slaad in such a scenario, and what impact they would have, and what side they would choose.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Illithids could beat them I guess if they were uniting and if they were playing this war "properly". On skirmishes they have only manage a stalemate but I guess on all open war would see the Gits tiering on the slaves,

the last frontal assault would be very very nasty and wherever this would be would likely cause a lot of damage around.

Last word: I can't see why the illithids would risk an open war, very little to gain here, they have so many ennemies being everywhere and nowhere and do what they do best is probably much better for them, I could see them coming back to power by better means than an open war.

anyway off to eat some brains....

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Both the illithid and githyanki empires have a single figurehead, a single great leader to guide, motivate and inspire their respective races. If either should lose that figurehead, then the race would be utterly demoralized and directionless for a time.

The githzerai are more flexible in this regard, and I suspect that even if the majority of them were slain, the others would function as autonomous units with a single goal, fighting to the last. In a battle with the githzerai, you could NEVER be sure you'd won; you'd have to watch over your shoulder to the end of your days.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

"Enzo Sarlas" wrote:
Both the illithid and githyanki empires have a single figurehead, a single great leader to guide, motivate and inspire their respective races.

Who is the figurehead of the illihid empire?

As far as I was aware the Illithid empire is a shadow of its former self and has no unified leader. The reason why I voted for the illithids was simple. According to the MM they have genius intelligence, that in iteslf should be sufficient to ensure victory in the long run.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

agreed with Simmo,

They have equal firepower, intelligence should prevail.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

The figurehead of the illithid empire would be Illsensine, right?

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Just one question, who here is a major Githzeria fan mainly because of Dak'kon from planescape:torment? C'mon. Admit it. Please don't let me hang here looking like a fool.

Somebody?

Help.......

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Not me...I like 'em cause of Zerthimon Laughing out loud
Of course, it was Dak'kon who got me interested in the Gith in the first place.
I don't see why intelligence should be a deciding factor. Both Gith races have very able commanders, whose intelligence in military matters equals or exceeds that of the ilithids.
Once again, I really don't think the ilithids could win this. Assasinating the ilithids would free their slaves, who would then likely turn against their former masters, tipping the balance against them.
Something just occured to me...is the plural of ilithid "ilithids" or "ilithid"? The latter seems somehow more correct...
Could you tell me where Illsensine is mentioned? Sites, or a planescape handbook?

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

"ceratus" wrote:
Could you tell me where Ilsensine is mentioned? Sites, or a Planescape handbook?

I know it gets mentioned in the XPH, and I'm going to guess that it was detailed more in the Illithiad,

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KOBALDS!!

I voted for Illithids but the real winners would be the kobald hoards just waiting to take over.

Be strong! Be brave! Be mighty!
It will matter not, for death comes for yea!
And his name is Meapo!

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

"ceratus" wrote:
Could you tell me where Ilsensine is mentioned? Sites, or a Planescape handbook?

Oh, gad, Ilsensine's been mentioned in a lot of places, and not just in Planescape. He got a full write-up in the 2E Monstrous Mythology, as I recall, though I think he goes back even further than that. As far as Planescape sources, I'm sure he has at least a mention in On Hallowed Ground. Ah, yes...and of course, his realm is described in A Player's Guide to the Outlands.

As far as single figureheads, though, well, as I recall, the githzerai have one too...he's just not around at the moment. But a long-dead figurehead, who's believed to be going to return someday, has value in uniting a people too, n'est ce pas? Eye-wink

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Ilsensine's first appearance was Monster Mythology. It is also thoroughly described in The Illithiad. Its realm was detailed in the Planescape setting box, as were its minions the cranium rats. More minions of Ilsensine, the Eaters of Knowledge, appeared in the Planescape Monstrous Compendium, volume two. Smeazel's probably right about On Hallowed Ground and A Player's Guide to the Outlands, neither of which I have.

According to the Monster Manual, the plural of 'illithid' is 'illithids.' I've seen 'illithid' used as a plural before, though (for example, Planescape: Torment).

Besides their dead hero Zerthimon, inspiration for the order of zerths, the githzerai have a wizard (or perhaps sorcerer)-king who dwells within the sacred Floating City. The generals of the other githzerai capital, Shr'akt'lor, believe him to be but a figurehead, but they are wrong; the wizard-king Zaerith Menyar ag-Gith manipulates them as easily as he does the sorcerers of the Floating City.

On the other hand, the zerths and the monasteries aren't beholden to Zaerith at all. Their only god-king is Zerthimon.

I voted for the githzerai because Freeeeeedom! shall prevail. Not that githzerai are likely to shout like that, but any bariaur who happen to nearby will do it for them.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

"Kaelyn" wrote:
According to the Monster Manual, the plural of 'illithid' is 'illithids.' I've seen 'illithid' used as a plural before, though (for example, Planescape: Torment).

This may be a change in 3E. I recall reading somewhere--though I don't recall where--that WotC had decided to pursue a conscious policy of making the plurals of monster names in 3E regular (i.e. just by adding S) wherever possible. There are exceptions, of course, but most of them are fairly obvious--"lizardfolks" and "merfolks" clearly wouldn't sound right, for instance, and "dwarf" retains the traditional fantasy plural "dwarves" (as opposed to the traditional non-fantasy plural "dwarfs")*. On the other hand, note that the "magman" has been changed in 3E to "magmin"...to avoid the irregular "magmen" plural, perhaps?

[EDIT: Hmm... interestingly, though, they did keep the plural of "slaad" as "slaadi" in 3E...]

*The plural form "dwarves" actually originated with Tolkien, who at first claimed that he intentionally decided to pluralize "dwarf" that way to bring it in line with older English forms, but later admitted that he just made a mistake and hadn't realized that "dwarfs" was the accepted form. Still, Tolkien's mistake definitely caught on in the fantasy genre, even if the Oxford English Dictionary and Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary still only list "dwarfs" as the correct plural of "dwarf" and don't even acknowledge "dwarves" as an allowable variant. (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language is more forgiving, giving both "dwarfs" and "dwarves" as plural forms.)

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

"Smeazel" wrote:
[On the other hand, note that the "magman" has been changed in 3E to "magmin"...to avoid the irregular "magmen" plural, perhaps?

I think it has more to do with their desire for gender-neutral monster names - which is why we have merfolk, lizardfolk, and mongrelfolk instead of lizard-men, mermen and mermaids, and mongrelmen. The choice was either "magfolk," which sounds awful, or something like "magmin." I approve of their decision.

Lillendi became "lillends," but slaadi are still slaadi. Genies still have the reverse pattern: plural is djinn, singular is djinni.

"Manes" and "asuras" used to be both singular and plural, but now we can have a mane be burnt to death by an asura. It's somewhat cleaner that way.

The 2e Monstrous Manual uses "illithids" too, so that's one thing that didn't change between editions. I just think it wasn't completely consistent before.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Heh... I kind of cross-posted (er...cross-edited?) with you about the "slaadi" example.

No, I realize that these specific changes could be interpreted as having been made for other reasons, but I do recall having read somewhere an explicit statement to the effect that WotC was shooting for regular pluralization of monster names in 3E. Unfortunately, I don't recall exactly where I read that, so I can't really back it up...

[EDIT: Found it. It's in the article How To Create a Monster by Skip Williams in Dragon #276:

Quote:
In the new D&D game, we're making an effort to avoid irregular plurals. That means when you're talking about two or more of your monsters, just add an "s" to the name. If your name doesn't work with an "s", change it so that it does.

Obviously, as previously noted, the 3E designers didn't always follow this guideline, but apparently it was a principle they had consciously in mind.]

You're probably right about "illithid"/"illithids" being just an inconsistency, though. It certainly wouldn't be the only thing canonical materials were inconsistent about...

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Well now that we're off on plurals, here's my take on everyone's chances:
The githyanki are the most militant because they have been training as knights and warlocks for centuries. However, they have a low population because there's no time on the Astral and so raising children is hard.
The githzerai, as people have said, have the advantages of freewill and no depedence on a leader. However, they also have the disadvantages of freewill and a no leader...
The illithids probably have the smallest population, but they are individually more powerful. They were my vote, though, because they're so emotionless. The githyanki and githzerai would charge into the fray looking to kill their evil overlords and traitorous cousins, making them prime targets for traps and tricks. Also, the illthids are unified behind Ilsensine: a god and a greater god at that. (p.s. check out the expanded Psionics Handbook for a 3.5 Ilsensine write-up). I'd be surprised if Ilsensine was killed in this war before the illthids had used his power and scheming to get major advantages in the conflict.

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Re: KOBALDS!!

Gerzel wrote:
I voted for Illithids but the real winners would be the kobald hoards just waiting to take over.

allthough the kobalds are mighty your all overlooking the fact that the animated vines would totatlly wreck them. then something would destroy the vines and the silly cycle continues.

Im just waiting for someone to teleport the Tarresque on the field and run away. it would be good fun! Laughing out loud

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Re: KOBALDS!!

"dread pirate swan" wrote:
Im just waiting for someone to teleport the Tarresque on the field and run away. it would be good fun! Laughing out loud

Wouldn't work. Most of this would be in the astral and the underdarks over the planes so the tarrasque either would not fit or would be obligated to get into a lover's quarrel with the astral marrauders.

Oh and the vines have been forseen and accounted for.

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Kobalds * Tarrasque ~~ Meat mine?

Was just thinking. If you were to get the Tarrasque in the underdark, then you might be able to immoblize it. Once you got it there trapped you have a meat mine! Just tunnle into the thing's thigh slap the tailings on the barbi and wait for it to regrow.

Think of the cities that could be supported by just one such beast? It would be an end to Kobald hunger!

THINK OF THE HATCHLINGS!

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Re: KOBALDS!!

"Gerzel" wrote:
so the tarrasque... would be obligated to get into a lover's quarrel with the astral marrauders.

*CHOKE* *snicker snicker*

Realize that half the reason I find this funny is because I can see Skalliska *doing* that! Wait. We don't have any odd oders or wierd sounds coming from the basement of our inn....do we? I mean other than from Tristol's lab.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

You all seem to be missing the point. Cant you just imagine a scene of a Tarrusque showing up?
It would be great.

I can see it now. and entire field of Gith beating the crap out of each other. And then, with a flash, you have a confused and very angry Tarrasque sating in the middle of the bunch. Pause for a stunned silence, and then everyone has the same great idea at once. RUN! :shock:
Oh, it would be good fun for the mindflayers for sure. Cant you see Mindflayers doing that? No? damn.
And the Kobalds would have plenty of crushed gith to loot. So everyone who goes home, goes home happy. as for the Gith, well. Wrong place wrong time. Sad

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

"Fidrikon" wrote:
You all seem to be missing the point. Cant you just imagine a scene of a Tarrusque showing up? It would be great. Sad

finally someone see's the beutifull sight of pure chaos and destruction! i like that meat farm idea also and with enough animated vines i'm sure we can catch a tarrusque.......... :idea:

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Dread pirate Swan, you poor, deluded fool. :roll:
Actually, the Animated Vine I dea might work, but it would have to be done while the Tarresque was asleep. And you would need enough vines to blanket the outlangs in order toi hold down that thing.

I just had a nasty Idea.
Im not too sure if something as big as a Tarrasque can go through a portal, but if it could, and you cast the portal tether spell, (I think thats what its called. Going to have to check later) then it would come out the other side, and only be anbe to move five feet in any direction. While not imobilizing it entirely, a creature that big would be hard pressed to move very far at all.
But that Portal would be, more or less, sealed.
Oh, sure, you could use it, and walk out the other side right into the Tarresque's lower digestive tract.
I dont think the Tarrasque would be samrt enough to sever the link itself, or does it not matter that much as to the creatuer intellegince?

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

"Fidrikon" wrote:
I dont think the Tarrasque would be samrt enough to sever the link itself, or does it not matter that much as to the creatuer intellegince?
The target has to be "willing", unfortunately, so I don't think this would work. Good idea though.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

So, um...how long is this poll gonna stay on? I wanna see the big githzerai victory thingy that's undoubtedly gonna be on Rrakkma Laughing out loud

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Uh, guys?

Ilsensine's kinda dead (Dead Gods anthology).

(s)he/it's been unmade.

As for who's going to win out of those three? The Githzerai.
They have relatively uncontested rule over Limbo. The Slaadi pose a threat, but they also pose a threat to themselves and to any outsiders, as does the plane itself. The Githzerai can make the plane turn against people.

Then we have the Astal. To my knowledge, the plane itself doesn't kill anyone, so there's no auto-defense system. It's contested between the Psurlon, the Githyanki and the Illithids (and the Astral Dreadnaughts), so the Gith are already fighting a battle on two fronts, and rumors go that the unifying force of the githyanki (the Lich-Queen) has been in a state of ill-health recently.

The utter winners will be the Psurlon, because they'll stay out of it, until the Githyanki and Illithids have their ass kicked, and then take over.

Fortunately, Limbo's kinda inhospitable.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Maanzecorian is dead ala Dead Gods.

Ilsensine is still very much and burbling... insanely.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Speaking of which, how do you kill a god? Kill all its preists and/or followers? Or do you have to slay the god itself? And how would one accomplisth this?

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Killing all the followers is one way...though it takes a long time and a lot of effort. Then the god's corpse goes to the astral and floats around...
Another way would be to kill the god physically...there aren't many ways to do this. Powerful spells would be one way...and another divine being could kill a god.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Hmmm, I've been wondering, killing the god- or goddesses worshipers? how bout those who believe but don't worship, how would you find them, and if you didn't would the god still be alive? and if so, if there are believers dwelling in Sigil, would the Lady of Pain target them, after all they aren't "worshipping"

I voted for the Githzerai- GO GITHZERAI!!!

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

"Fidrikon" wrote:
Speaking of which, how do you kill a god?

One way is the Last Word. But I've heard it's dangerous. If you're really interested, though, it can be found in Arborea.

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Is the last word, by any chance, 'ni'?
(subtle Monty Python refrence. be careful, the joke can be leathal.)

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Nah, it ain't "ni". That one just makes people cringe in pain.

Though the Pythons did have a sketch once about a fatal joke. Was so funny, that those who read it died within instants of laughing. It got translated to use against the Germans, though no translater could translate more then two words, at the risk of "getting" the joke, and dying within seconds.

Was in "And now for something completely different."

And now for something completely different: the Gith.

I voted on the Githzerai. Not only because I like them more then the other races, due to their strong use of metaphors, mythology and general sense of freedom, but also because I *know* that they would win an all-out war with the illithid and their own ex-brethren.

Though the mindflayers are powerful, they will fall to the zeal and pure hatred of the Gith races, even if they were alone.

The Githyanki have the same flaw the illithid have (Zerthimon saw this correctly when he made the pronouncement of the Two Skies). Warfare on all races besides your own, eventually leads to destruction.

Also, the Githyani have karach-blades :twisted:

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Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

I too voted for the illustrious githzerai. The illithid scourge, while powerful, has demonstrated its ineptitude at multiplanar conflict before, against these same opponents. Quite climactic if you'll recall. The githyanki pose a threat, but its doubtful that it could not be overcome. Besides, when your entire race consits of rather mean, bitter individuals looking out for number one, its hard to make allies.

Narfi Ref's picture
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Joined: 2004-09-09
Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Although, to play Batezu's advocate, the Githyanki do have some very powerful allies: Red Dragons.

ceratus's picture
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Joined: 2004-05-11
Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Which are just as likely to start eating the githyanki, as they are to attack the other races. Especially if the battle starts going against them :twisted:

Primus, the One and Prime's picture
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factotums
Joined: 2004-05-11
Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

The dragons and the 'yanki have a bond that has been formed for centuries. They are brothers, tied in battle, tied in blood. The red dragon mounts of the githyanki are among the most gifted battle tacticians of the planes and can be called the only race in the entire multiverse that the githyanki view as equals.

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Joined: 2004-07-04
Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

I'd have to go for the illithid, assuming that they were going all out to win such a war, rather than keep reserves against each other. Don't forget that they are the only one of the three races backed by a true God. If it comes down to a war of real, actual extermination, Ilsensine isn't going to stand (sit?) idle. And Ilsensine has the cranium rats.

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Joined: 2008-06-30
Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Go rats! Can't forget the rats! *braincase bulges out*
(Brown Jenkins would be proud.)

dread pirate swan's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-21
Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Quote:
*braincase bulges out*

is that a ghost in the shell referance or have i just been watching to much latenight anime?

Tenshi's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-20
Poll: Githyanki versus Githzerai versus Illithids: Who wins?

Quote:
is that a ghost in the shell referance or have i just been watching to much latenight anime?

I think they're refering to cranium rats lol

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