Playable Mechanoids

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Playable Mechanoids

Playable Mechanoids

This "race" is intended as just a base for players to create their mechanical PCs without too much worry about LA or official races not matching up with theit vision.

Racial characteristics

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- Medium or Small Size
- 30ft. movement
- Construct Type (living construct subtype)
- Living: Unlike most living constructs, Warforged are treated like normal living creatures for purposes of healing effects, gaining full benefit.
- +4 bonus on Craft
- racial skills: you count as trained in any skill in which you have a racial bonus and those skills are always class skills for you
- Favoured class: any
- Automatic languages: Common, one other
- Bonus languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Formian, Ignan, Modron, Slaad, Sylvan, Terran.

Comments: Yes, it’s pretty damn empty. However, my goal was to keep it at LA +0, so it’s not like I could stuff much in there on top of the tons of immunities from type. Also, there’s some extra racial features below.

Living construct traits:

Spoiler: Highlight to view

Features: A living construct derives its Hit Dice, base attack bonus progression, saving throws, and skill points from the class it selects.

Traits: A living construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

- Unlike other constructs, a living construct has a Constitution score. A living construct does not gain bonus hit points by size but gains (or loses) bonus hit points through a Constitution bonus (or penalty) as with other living creatures.
- Unlike other constructs, a living construct does not have low-light vision or darkvision.
- Unlike other constructs, a living construct is not immune to mind-influencing effects.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, and energy drain.
- A living construct cannot heal damage naturally.
- Unlike other constructs, living constructs are subject to critical hits, effects requiring a Fort save, death from massive damage, nonlethal damage, stunning, ability damage, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy effects.
- Unlike other constructs, a living construct can use the run action.
- Living constructs can be affected by spells that target living creatures as well as by those that target constructs. Damage dealt to a living construct can be healed by a cure light wounds spell or a repair light damage spell, for example, and a living construct is vulnerable to a harm spell. However, spells from the healing subschool provide only half effect to a living construct.
- A living construct responds slightly differently from other living creatures when reduced to 0 hit points. A living construct with 0 hit points is disabled, just like a living creature. He can only take a single move action or standard action in each round, but strenuous activity does not risk further injury. When his hit points are less than 0 and greater than -10, a living construct is inert. He is unconscious and helpless, and he cannot perform any actions. However, an inert living construct does not lose additional hit points unless more damage is dealt to him, as with a living creature that is stable.
- Can be raised or resurrected.
- Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items such as heroes' feast and potions.
- Does not need to sleep, but must rest for 8 hours before preparing spells.
I’d like to point out here that while those are called living construct traits, all the subtype actually does is shave off part of the Construct Type traits. So no, Otherwordly does not make you immune to everything.

Character Types

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Choose one and consider it part of the racial abilities

Mechanus-based

Modron creation
You were made to help fulfill the will of Primus. For some reason, right now it means you are to join an adventuring party. They say you don't need to know why. They always say that.
You have a faint Law aura and have a perfect memory giving you the Sound Imitation ability. Your second automatic language is Modron, allowing you to talk with gear spirits and other machines.

Also, Modrons might have some missions for you in the future, but right now you are supposed to adventure, gaining power, knowledge and magic items to be more useful when your services will again be needed.

Rouge Modron
01010101010011111010101010000101101112!!!!
Benefits: Same as Modron creation
Other: You could not keep your mind inside the tight mindset of a typical Modron and went rogue. It could have happened a second or a century ago. After that one of two things could have happened. You could have filled out all the paperwork (on Mechanus, there are forms for everything) and officially become an exile, never to be recognized as a Modron by any servant of Primus. Or you could have escaped, retaining the ability to command Modrons of lower rank at the price of being under constant attack of Primus’ soldiers.

Created by a mortal mage
You have once been the right hand of a spellcaster. If your creator is still alive, you probably are executing his orders or hiding from him after you escaped. If he's dead you are most likely fulfilling his last will, avenging him or hiding from his friends because it was you who killed him.

Mage's assistant
You know more about magic than most people assume you do.
You have +2 to Spellcraft and Knowledge(arcane) checks and these skills are always class skills for you. You can also cast Detect Magic as a spell-like ability at will.

Mage's bodyguard
You want to be a Shield Golem when you grow up.
You either have a natural weapon, or your natural armor bonus is increased by 1, or you have low light vision. But you also have some bad trait, like a 5’ reduction in speed, or a -2 to initiative checks, or one of your hands is nonfunctional.

Veteran of The War
There was a great and terrible war that wracked the lands, and you fought on one or more sides of it.
Effect: Veterans have proficiency with 3 Martial weapons and one armor type. Veterans who belong to a class that already has martial weapon proficiency begin play with proficiency in 3 Exotic weapons appropriate to the lands upon which the battles raged. Veterans also have nightmares sometimes and talk about The War more than is perhaps strictly required.
Eberron Warforged have this Background.

Elementforged
See, to make a golem, one has to capture an elemental spirit and bind it to a body. Sometimes, such a spirit manages to take control of the body – this usually causes the construct to simply go berserk, the spirit gone mad because of the cruel bindings of the wizards. Exceptions are few –I am one of them.
You are an elemental inside a non-elemental body. As such, you count as an Elemental of your type for purposes of taking [Elemental] feats and classes. There are also additional benefits associated with your type:
Fire: While on a plane with the Fire-dominant planar trait, you gain Immunity to Fire. You know Ignan. Should you become angry, you grow hot and start emitting smoke.
Water: You are immune to rusting. While on a plane with the Water-dominant planar trait, you gain a swim speed equal to your land speed. You know Aquan. When you run or fight, the noise you make sounds a little like crashing of the waves, and you sometimes smell of the see.
Air: You have a +4 racial bonus Wisdom checks to change the direction of gravity on a plane with Subjective Directional Gravity. While on a plane with the Air-dominant planar trait, you gain immunity to falling damage. You know Auran. You appear to have an almost supernaturally light step and a melodic voice.
Earth: While on a plane with the Earth-dominant planar trait, you gain a Burrowng speed equal to half your land speed and the Xorn movement ability. You know Terran. The metal of your body looks like ore, clay either like black earth or stone, wood has little fresh twigs. As for the general effect – from afar you could pass off for an Earth elemental.
Positive: Yes, an Energon inside you (the construct that is) has awakened – but the creature’s alien mind wasn’t quite capable of connecting to, and overtaking yours making you only slightly ‘off’. You have a +4 racial bonus to Heal checks and cannot be killed by the Positive-dominant racial trait – it only heals you to your full HP. You can communicate telepathically with Energons, but Xeg-Yi are automatically hostile towards you, recognizing your nature. Should you become excited, your eyes and cracks of your armor start glowing as if someone switched on a lightbulb inside you.
Negative: -see above- You are healed by Negative Energy and harmed by Positive, and suffer no harmful effects of the Negative Energy Plane. You can communicate telepathically with Energons, but Xeg-Ya are automatically hostile towards you, recognizing your nature. Materials you are made of appear worn out – metal is rusting, clay has cracks, skin looks like it belongs to a zombie.

The Old One
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I've watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain. Time to die.
Whatever your origin, it happened centuries ago and its effects have long since become immaterial. Thanks to the experience you have gained over the long time you can have as many free ranks in background skills (Knowledge, Profession, Craft and Perform) as your level allows and they are always class skills for you. You are also going to unexpectedly meet long-forgotten (and important to the plot) friends and enemies from the past.

Android
Are you a soldier from the surface?
You appear to be of a different race of the same size, usually one of the humanoid races. Since you apparently have been created to pass off as something you are not, you gain a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks and 1 free rank in Speak Language.

The exterior of an android can be changed within the limitations identical to those of the Disguise Self spell, provided a replacement set of “outer layer” is available. Removing or donning one takes 10 minutes each, 5 with help of someone trained in Knowledge(engeneering).

Creating one takes 1 hour for a generic look and 8 hours for a specific individual. It requires being trained in Craft and a Disguise check (the result of the check will be the DC to recognize the Android as an impostor; keep in mind a generic form is safer as no one is familiar with the “person”).

Feats

Spoiler: Highlight to view
[Construct] feats can be taken by Constructs
[Elemental] feats can be taken by Outsiders and Elementals native to Inner Planes, or whose ancestors were native to Inner Planes.

Determinator [Construct]
Benefit: You are immune to fear, and actually gain a +2 Morale bonus to hit, damage, and saves when exposed to an enemy’s fear effect (this bonus lasts one minute).
Special: This can only be taken at 1st level.

Constrict [Construct]
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefits: On a successful Grapple check, you can choose to do a 4d6 Constricting attack as a normal attack.
Due to you change in form and body type, you can only use nonstandard-sized armor.

Extra Arms [Construct]
You have more arms than normal.
Prerequisite: Character level 6 (per extra pair).
Benefit: You have two extra humanoid arms. Each arm has your full strength and dexterity.
Special: You may take this feat more than once, its effects stack. You must have a minimum of 6 levels for each iteration of this feat (so a 12th level character may have 2 sets of extra arms).

Liquid Metal Transformation [Construct]
Prerequisites: Disguise 7 ranks
Benefits: You can Change Shape into a medium-sized Humanoid appearance as a Full-Round Action. You can use this ability to Disguise yourself as other people, and it gives a +10 to Disguise checks as normal. This transformation is not perfect – each creature with this ability has an irremovable mark somewhere on their body that makes them easily identifiable as Constructs. In addition, should you become damaged enough (reduced to 50%HP, hit by a Wounding weapon) it also reveals you are not what you appear to be.

Large Size [Construct]
Your size increases to Large.
Prerequisites: Character level 5.
Benefits: If your size would normally be Medium without this feat, it increases to Large (with all the usual changes, including attribute increases). Yes, honestly.

Huge Size [Construct]
Your size increases to Huge.
Prerequisites: Character level 10
Benefits: If your size would normally be Large without this feat, it increases to Huge (with all the usual changes).

Resistant Memeory
You retain your memories perfectly after you are slain and brought back from the dead.
Prerequisite: Construct or native to Prime
Benefit: When you die and are returned back from the dead by any means, you do not lose a level, any XP, or Constitution. Any other penalties associated with returning to life (such as being exhausted or waking up in a new body) are unchanged. Note that this means that you have flawless intelligence as to the alignment of whoever brought you back from the dead.

Pincers [Construct]
Two of your hands are converted into pincers.
Benefit: Each Pincer is a natural weapon, and attacks made with the Pincer are considered to have the Improved Grab ability.

Spines of Fury [Construct]
Spines cover your body, and you may fire these spine at your enemies.
Prerequisites: Character level 3.
Benefits: You may fire up to two of your body’s protruding spines per round as a standard action. You are proficient in these spines, and they have the same game effects as daggers. You may also remove them and use them as daggers, and they count as your natural weapons for purposes of damage reduction and spell effects. You body has a number of spines equal to twice your character level, and regenerate these amounts after one day of rest.

Winged [Construct]
You have mechanical wings growing from your back.
Prerequisite: Character level 5.
Benefit: You have a fly speed double that of your normal ground speed. You have good maneuverability, and you must be able to flap your wings to stay aloft (meaning that it requires very specialized armor or cloaks to permit flight).
Special: If you would prefer to have wings that appear differently (or not wings at all, such as Pentadrone’s steam jetpack), you can do that. The maneuverability and speed are unchanged. Once the look and feel of the wings is selected it cannot be changed.

Double Strike
You can strike twice as fast.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +4 or higher, one Slam natural weapon.
Benefit: You gain a second Slam natural weapon, identical to the one you already have. This feat has no effect if you already have two. Your strength bonus to damage for your slam adjusts to be normal for the new situation.

Extra Legs [Construct]
You are quadrupedal.
Benefits: You gain +20' to your land speed, and Swim speed if you have one. This does not affect other movement modes. You also gain all of the benefits of being quadrupedal (stability and increased carrying capacity), and a +2 bonus on all checks to Trip or Bull Rush enemies.

Fortification [Construct]
You have astounding physical fortitude due to your nature.
Benefits: You also gain a 50% chance to negate any critical hit or sneak attack made against you.

Composite Armor [Construct]
Your body deflects blows off of itself.
Benefit: You gain impenetrable Damage Reduction equal to half your character level, rounded up (1/- at first level, 2/- at 3rd, 5/- at 9th, 10/- at 19th).

Heavy Fortification [Construct]
Your body has become even more impenetrable.
Prerequisite: Elemental-Fortification
Benefit: You gain immunity to Critical Hits. You also cannot be flanked, as your undiffentiated body has no clear front or back.

Uncanny Flexibility [Construct]
Your body, being made of a material other than flesh, bends in directions and places that flesh neither can nor should.
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to Escape Artist checks, and Escape Artist is always a class skill for you. You can compress your head to about half area for purposes of slipping through tight spaces, and may attempt to slip manacles, ropes, webs, nets, grapplers, and similar bonds as a free action.

Elemental Resistance [ Elemental ]
Your elemental heritage gives you the ability to resist energy attacks.
Benefit: You gain Resistance 2 * Character level to one or two energy types, depending on your elemental subtype.
Air: Electricity and Cold.
Earth: Acid and Cold
Fire: Cold. This applies before your Cold Vulnerability is taken into account.
Water: Acid and Electricity
Special: If you have multiple elemental subtypes, pick two subtypes and then one energy type from each of those subtypes' list. If you have the Psuedoelemental Being feat and none of the above Subtypes, instead pick from the list below:
Ice: Fire. This applies before your Fire Vulnerability is taken into account.
Shadow: Cold and Fire.
Wood: Acid and Fire.

Breath of the Elements [ Elemental ]
You have a breath weapon.
Prerequisites: Resistance 10+ or immunity to an energy type.
Benefits: Select an energy type that you meet this feat's prerequisite for and that you do not have a special vulnerability to (either the Vulnerability "ability," or an ability weakened/negated by taking that damage type, such as taking real damage through Regeneration). You gain a Breath Weapon usable every 5 rounds that inflicts 1d6 damage per hit die you have of that energy type in a 30' cone. Your Breath Weapon allows a reflex save for half damage, DC 10 + 1/2 your hit dice + your Constitution modifier.

Burn [ Elemental ]
You're hot. You're on fire. You like to burn things.
Prerequisites: (Fire) Subtype
Benefits: Anything you hit with your natural weapons or unarmed strikes must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 your hit dice + your Constitution modifier) or catch fire until it is put out, taking 1d6 damage per round, plus 1d6 damage per round for five hit dice you have. Creatures hitting you with natural weapons suffer the same effect. Any creature grappling you, or that you grapple, is automatically on fire, and cannot be put out until it is no longer grappling you. Any creature that fails a saving throw against one of your abilities that does fire damage suffers the same effect.

Elemental Aura [Elemental]
Your close relationship with primal elemental forces has manifested in a damaging aura.
Prerequisites: Character level 7, must have a subtype granting immunity to a form of elemental damage.
Benefits: Choose one of your elemental subtypes granting immunity to a form of elemental damage. You radiate a damaging aura that does 4d6 of elemental damage of that type to any creature within 10’ of you at the beginning of your turn.

Feats taken form FrankTrollman's Tome of Fiends and ITGN's The Elements, used with permission.

xidoraven's picture
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Re: Playable Mechanoids

Very interesting. Some of this seems unbalanced, and of course the text should be tidied up a little bit (like keeping the witty comments to the flavor text sections). But overall, it looks like there was some real thought implemented here.

I see a few Terminator throwbacks and vibes. Liquid Metal Body, for one - and 'Determinator'... lol, it was borderline funny and lame... honestly not sure which one was more prominent.

For Elementforged, they could surely use a better name. Also, it is entirely applicable that they are in some ways connected to the divine power, Aepos, which I have been outlining lately. He is the deity of harnessed energy, and of living constructs which utilize great deals of elemental and energetic power. Possible names: Aeponic, Aeposian, Kronupan, Deiforged, Elementine, Enertron, Forgebroken (as in broken out of one's original intentions as a mindless construct).

What I currently have about Aepos is:
Aepos (The Creator Force)
Lesser Deity (Neutral)
Aepos is the deity of controlled energy, and the mechanoids and other beings who are composed of energies harnessed within a shell or body. Being the deity of the forces of electricity, sonics, and many energy-based golems and mechanoids, it is well known by artificers, magic users, and craftsman who wish to harness the forces of nature and the elements.
Its symbol is a ball of colorful energy surrounded by several small clamps or brackets.
(Technically, Aepos has no gender - I should not have said 'he'/'his')
Portfolio: Energy forces, energons, elements, elementals / paraelementals (electricity), mechanoids, technomancers, mechanauts, engineers, artificers, creation, power, strength, controlled force
Domains: Artifice, Creation, Glory, Strength
Herald and Allies: Energon or Aoa?
Home Plane: Positive Energy Plane (Pyrrothian cosmology alternative undefined)
Alignment: True Neutral
Worshipers: Evocation wizards, sorcerers, energons, artificers, elementals, psions, incarnum users / meldshapers
Cleric Alignments: Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Good, True Neutral
Favored Weapon: Sling or catapult

Aspect:
Barbarian 10 / Monk 10 / Wizard (Evoker) 20
Huge Outsider
Divine Rank: 8

That's what I've got so far on this one. Helpful?

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

Determinator is a Trope. And I just changed the names on feats from the linked sources - Determinator is Blood War Squaddie (minus the prereq: "must have fought in the Blood War") and Liquid Metal Transformation is Harmless Form [Fiend] feat (prerequisite changed form "Character level 4").

As for the names: I don't expect anybody to call them that in the game. It's a metagame name, the actual golems of that type would most likely be isolated incidents with no name for the category. And of course, this is just a set of mechanical traits. A rogue Stone Golem has type Earthforged, a creation of Aepos could be Waterforged and a Pentadrone whose player wants a Steam (technically Fire) breath weapon can be Fireforged once I write the Extra Type feat (just granting one for a feat would have been pretty weak, and things like The Old One need prerequisites). And no character in the game would be insane enough to call the three of them Elementforged (barring Xaositects).

As for unbalanced: I'm assuming that you are referring to the Old One type and the size feats. The former I'm yet to find a way to make it do anything powerful to call it unbalanced (except for Knowledge Devotion, but that one's broker in it's own right). The latter come from the several-years-old Tome of Fiends, have been hotly debated and are still left unchanged - look up the discussion in the thread linked, it convinced me they are balanced.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

I have an issue with them being vulnerable to life influencing spells such as "Harm"; these spells assume the target is a living entity after all and do not work on creatures such as undead, so why should they injure a clockwork man? (for example) I can see arguments for stat drain (just barely) and stat reduction, but this escapes me. And if spells of that nature do - somehow - injure the entity, then why don't the opposite work to full effect? (half effect from the Healing sub-school?)

I don't see them benefiting from spells such as Hero's Feast simply because they cannot perform the very real requirement of eating. (it seems unlikely a construct would even have the necessary parts to swallow or store food) The same goes for the use of potions, though I could see them using magical oils of the type normally applied to weapons and objects.

I don't see how raise or resurrection makes particular sense unless you are assuming the construct possesses some kind of soul. (in fact, many of the vulnerabilities they share with living creatures would have to assume this) To me this removes one of the aspects that make a construct interesting - the lack of a true soul. For similar reasons I find X-raven's god of constructs less interesting, but that is a matter of taste I suppose.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

Such creatures have souls and are powered by positive energy just like other living creatures (save for Negation-forged which are effectively Tomb-Tainted). And this race has full benefit of healing spells, it's in the racial traits. Sure it probably is a question of taste whether it's a good thing - I for example find it contrived that sentient machines in media are 'soulless' and such. Why is a product of a complicated chemical reaction granted a soul while a result of a similarly complex mechanical construction isn't?

Oh and the benefits of Hero's Feast and potions are a result of consuming magic the receptacle of which the conjured food is. The ability to benefit from its nutritional value are irrelevant. And it's assumed you have a mouth or something that could serve it's function.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

>>Oh and the benefits of Hero's Feast and potions are a result of consuming magic the receptacle of which the conjured food is. The ability to benefit from its nutritional value are irrelevant. And it's assumed you have a mouth or something that could serve it's function.<<

By that reasoning your wagon could benefit from either simply by rolling over them - it has always been assumed that a person must actually be capable of digesting a potion in order for it to take effect.

>>I for example find it contrived that sentient machines in media are 'soulless' and such.<<

That tends to be an extension of an assumption that the "soul" is more than a byproduct of the mechanics of life, but something more than and separate from the physical. In DnD this is most certainly the case, as souls exist beyond death, move on to other destinations after death, etc. So unless a "soul" is being summoned to inhabit the mechanical body you are suggesting that the act of putting a machine together grants it a spirit ... why then doesn't your toaster or your television possess one? (or do they?)

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

Not digesitng - ingesting. Warforged are explictly able to use potions.

And at what point a soul is summoned into a baby? I'd say a sentient machine first going online is no worse than an organic creature getting born, perhaps better actually. Whether TVs should have souls in this or that work of fiction mostly depends on whether plants, bacteria and viruses have them too.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

How is your clockwork man any more deserving of a soul than a TV? They are basically the same thing, a mechanical creation and up until 80 years ago creating a TV was an astounded accomplishment, so you can't really say that it is because one is more difficult than the other. (after all, these worlds in which clockwork men wander about don't typically have Television or Microwaves - so it's an issue of science developing differently, but not necessarily being superior)

And I'm not talking about some specific piece of fiction, the question over whether a machine can have a soul is very rooted in philosophy; (an extension from the argument, "what makes up the soul?") of the two of us you seem to be the one stuck on the question as addressed by the media. But from what I gather you feel a machine, once turned on, would gain a soul ... hell, a laptop computer is far more complex in some ways than a newborn, (and far less in others) so we can assume laptops have souls?

Tied into this, the assumption - I gather - is that they benefit from healing spells because of that soul? In which case any machine of sufficient complexity can benefit from a heal spell? But - if that is the argument, that the spells work their magic on the spirit of the target, how do such spells fix the physical form of a machine which does not heal naturally on its own? They can't speed up recovery, or utilize the target's own physical tendency to try and heal itself ... the body of a mechanical man is effectively an inanimate object, no more capable of normal healing than a toaster ... so if the heal spell can fix a dented body, can it also fix my car? (a car being a terribly complex piece of machinery after all)

>>Not digesitng - ingesting. <<

How does that work? The potion can tell the difference between being poured in the mouth of a machine from being poured into a clock? Or a jar? Or are you suggesting that the soul is part of the equation again? (in which case that "what gets a soul?" question becomes immensely important when it's time to fix my pocketwatch or repair the traps in my dungeon)

I have nothing against artificial people as pcs, but I worry when it appears all you're actually doing is making them *look like* machines, with only a few considerations for how the mechanics would reflect that.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

Quote:
How is your clockwork man any more deserving of a soul than a TV?
The same way a human is.

Back to DnD 3.5
A living construct is powered by Positive Energy the same way humanoids are, which is why
positive and negative energy effects affect it normally.

Quote:
The potion can tell the difference between being poured in the mouth of a machine from being poured into a clock?
It is now inside a creature.

Quote:
I worry when it appears all you're actually doing is making them *look like* machines, with only a few considerations for how the mechanics would reflect that.
No, that'd be Koumei. I'm still leaving a lot of the Construct traits here.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

>>It is now inside a creature.<<

But if the creature is made of metal and mechanic bits, how does it recognize that as different from a simple machine? I'm guessing the positive energy aura?

>>The same way a human is.<<

Not sure that's much of a definition, but let me use a more appropriate example - how is a mechanical man really that different from a computer? Especially if that computer controls 'automated' systems such as those used on assembly lines? What is it that differentiates the two enough that the prior deserves (or generates) a soul and the latter does not?

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

A potion holds a spell

SRD wrote:
that targets one or more creatures
so the spell activates once the potion is inside a valid target.

As for the souls thing. For starters, lets be clear that IRL souls do not exist. A man is a mind-bogglingly complex chemical compound, a computer is a bunch of transistors.

Now for other things, especially related to d20, I find that the Christian canon has an interesting idea b/c the full explanation ties nicely into the whole positive energy thing DnD has:
Humans have sentient souls, animals have feeling souls and plants/fungi have passive souls.
The machine analogy would be fully sentient machines, non-sentient machines with processing ability and electrical or complex mechanical appliances without processing ability respectively.

Why yes, I'm aware we're rapidly approaching this.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

>>lets be clear that IRL souls do not exist<<

While I'm aware this is your belief you have to be aware that you're in the minority - even in a day and age where people like to believe they know the mathematics of reality and it is vogue to call those with spiritual beliefs ignorant. This argument is, of course, a vast and complex kind of exchange at the end of which neither of us is going to be convinced of the other's point of view, so I won't bother getting into that. Do keep in mind, though, that Christian mythology/religion is not remotely the only one which believes in a "soul", so we can't really blame them for the idea. (not to mention the fact that when I was a practicing Catholic they never taught that animals or plants had souls, and in fact that is a fairly new - pc - kind of belief structure only adopted by some parishes. [not to say I have any problem with the idea, merely pointing out it isn't by any means a universal Christian belief])

And I'm still stuck as to how the potion/spell determines what a valid target is if a mechanical object - which is an object, not a creature - can invoke its effects merely by ingesting it. You have yet to verify whether my assumption here that "creature" is defined by the magic as something with a soul - which is really important when discussing mechanics like this. (at which point we start getting into questions of why ghosts can't use potions - the mechanical man's body isn't any more alive than a suit of armor's - so we can't use the "only effects a living creature" explanation.)

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

I'm not saying souls are something Christians invented souls, only that St. Augustin's take on the matter (which is canon for Catholicism) is interesting when introduced into the game, since apparently one of the signs of the soul's existence is apparently the ability to grow - the tie-in with Positive Energy of creation is obvious.

A human, a zombie and a golem are all creatures as defined by the mechanics of the game and thus potentially valid targets. I'm not aware of any rulings whether or not incorporeal creatures can use them, but probably not since they physically cannot imbibe* the liquid.

*the actual word used in the rules, the definition of which seems to support my position

Jack of tears's picture
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Re: Playable Mechanoids

I'm quite aware of what imbibe means, though I don't recall zombies being able to benefit from potions in previous editions. Though I guess that hardly matters in an edition I'm unfamiliar with ... still, I think oils and the like would make more sense ... but whatever works best for you.

Ultimately I'm just more worried about keeping mechanical pcs more divergent and interesting ... the idea of potions redefined as oils, and spells designed to heal damage to a metal body don't bother me so much as the same things which work for living beings working for constructs ... When it comes down to it I want "different" to mean just that ... so I encourage new mechanics, but whatever works for your game and group is sufficient.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

Well it's not like I can change this part really. That's the official rules for living constructs form Eberron Campaign Setting, I'm just making small adjustments because the official living construct playable races - Warforged and Warforged Scout - are only good for warrior types and I'd like to have more variety.

Quote:
I'm quite aware of what imbibe means
I on the other hand had to check (not my first language)

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

I think very few spells actually deal with a soul, specifically (trap the soul and raise dead come immediately to mind). I think the nature of the soul is reasonably clear in D&D - most creatures have one. Constructs explicitly do not; outsiders explicitly do not have a separation between soul and body like, say, humanoids do.

I don't think cure spells specifically relate to creatures with souls, although they do only heal creatures "powered by positive energy" (every creature that is not a construct or undead creature). And they harm undead (based on the whole negative energy thing). So it could be said, potentially, that cure light wounds interacts with the soul, although I think the fact that it only works on creatures with a soul is incidental - what seems to actually be going on is that it only functions on creatures with a biology (which normal constructs definitely do not have - living constructs probably are sort of an amalgam of man and machine, sort of like the Borg).

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schpeelah's picture
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Re: Playable Mechanoids

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living constructs probably are sort of an amalgam of man and machine, sort of like the Borg
No, only the Modron are like that. The way I interpret it, a living construct is a living creature made of metal/clay/whatever rather than flesh.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

>>what seems to actually be going on is that it only functions on creatures with a biology (which normal constructs definitely do not have <<

Which was part of my issue and why I was questioning whether or not the soul was the key.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

schpeelah wrote:
Quote:
living constructs probably are sort of an amalgam of man and machine, sort of like the Borg
No, only the Modron are like that. The way I interpret it, a living construct is a living creature made of metal/clay/whatever rather than flesh.
Warforged clearly have organic parts such as wood in their construction, as evidenced by the depictions of Warforged Druids.

Though on the other hand Shardminds are also living constructs, but they're all made of psychic crystal.

And well Modrons have fleshy parts, so what makes a living construct varies depending on type.

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Re: Playable Mechanoids

schpeelah wrote:
Quote:
living constructs probably are sort of an amalgam of man and machine, sort of like the Borg
No, only the Modron are like that. The way I interpret it, a living construct is a living creature made of metal/clay/whatever rather than flesh.

When I said "man" I actually meant "living parts" - like the wood in a warforged, as KA mentioned. I'm not really familiar with shardminds, so I can't make much of a comment there.

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