Planewalking

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Calmar's picture
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Planewalking

I feel clueless about some basic things. Please enlighten me. Smiling

Can Sigil's portals lead to every layer of a plane, or just to it's first one?

How's the City of Doors actually connected to the Outland? Is there a permanent portal to somewhere, or do they appear somewhere in the Cage and lead to random destinations in the Outlands? (at first I thought the Gatehouse would be that thing, but that's as wrong as possible)

Teleport, gate and similar spells only bring you to a plane's first layer, right?

Is it possible to travel the planes solely by foot, without using planar paths and gates?? For example, could a cutter start her journey in the Outlands, march past Curst until reaching Carceri and then struggle her way to Hades, instead of using the Curst Gate and travelling on the Styx?

If there are differences you know of between all the mechanics in 2nd and 3rd edition, please tell them.

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Calmar wrote:Can Sigil's

Calmar wrote:
Can Sigil's portals lead to every layer of a plane, or just to it's first one?

 Sigil's portals can lead anywhere. Absolutely anywhere.

 

 

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How's the City of Doors actually connected to the Outland? Is there a permanent portal to somewhere, or do they appear somewhere in the Cage and lead to random destinations in the Outlands?

There are some permanent portals leading to various gate-towns in the Outlands, and there are lots of temporary or one-way portals leading to various parts of the Outlands as well. The City of Doors is in the Outlands, hovering an infinite height above the Spire in the center of the Land. At least, people assume it is, though it's hard to confirm that. You can't see the Outlands from Sigil; if you look over the city's edge, you just see a whole lot of nothingness. Perhaps this is because the Spire balances out all things until only nothingness remains, or perhaps there's another reason Sigil is hovering in the middle of a seemingly endless void. Some sources say that if you jump over Sigil's edge, you'll end up falling forever toward the Outlands, never reaching it, but another source (the original Planescape boxed set) says you end up in a completely random plane.

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Teleport, gate and similar spells only bring you to a plane's first layer, right?

Gate spells can reach any layer - it's a 9th level spell, after all. However, some planar lords and gods will block access to their realms.  Plane shift can reach whatever layer you know the proper tuning fork to. The first layers are reached using single notes, while deeper layers require combinations of notes. Usually the second layer is a sharp, the third layer is a flat, and deeper layers require exotic combinations of tones and materials. Teleport Without Error can get you to any places that have been studied first, though the spell doesn't permit planar travel in 3rd edition. Astral Spell gets you to the Astral Plane, where color pools only reach the first layer of each plane in 2nd edition; this isn't true in 3rd edition.

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Is it possible to travel the planes solely by foot, without using planar paths and gates? For example, could a cutter start her journey in the Outlands, march past Curst until reaching Carceri and then struggle her way to Hades, instead of using the Curst Gate and travelling on the Styx?

No, this isn't possible. If you pass Curst you end up in the Hinterlands,  an unexplored, misty region of the Outlands more subjective and strange than the core part between the gate-towns. The Hinterlands are infinite; you can travel them forever and never reach anywhere. If you turn back, though, the gate-towns are always only a few days away, no matter how far you've traveled.

 

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If there are differences you know of between all the mechanics in 2nd and 3rd edition, please tell them.

Teleportation didn't require access to the Astral Plane in 2nd edition. In 3rd edition, the Astral Plane touches all layers of all planes unless specifically noted otherwise, while in 2nd edition it only touched the first layers of the Outer Planes and the Material Plane. 

 In 3rd edition, Teleport spells don't permit interplanar travel, while in 2e they do.

The 3e Manual of the Planes says it's possible to walk between adjoining Outer Planes (though not between the Outlands and any other Outer Plane - the Hinterlands still exist in 3e) without a portal, there being "thin places" in the infinite planes where the two planes join. In 2nd edition, the only way to cross between Outer Planes was through magic or a portal.  

 

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Thank you very much for the

Thank you very much for the reply. Smiling

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ripvanwormer wrote: The 3e

ripvanwormer wrote:

The 3e Manual of the Planes says it's possible to walk between adjoining Outer Planes (though not between the Outlands and any other Outer Plane - the Hinterlands still exist in 3e) without a portal, there being "thin places" in the infinite planes where the two planes join. In 2nd edition, the only way to cross between Outer Planes was through magic or a portal.

 

Which is one of the things I disagree with 3E about. If you think about it, it makes no sense to walk from Acheron to Baator. After all, where do the cubes stop and the fiery plains start? Similarly, Carceri causes problems from either the Abyss or the Gray Waste. Travelling from Arcadia to Mechanus, or Bytopia to anywhere ("where did the ceiling go?") all require a fundamental change in planar topology.

 

 

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Remember the Mimir CD in

Remember the Mimir CD in the Outlands boxed set?  It has a recording about the "Great Road", which allows you to walk all the way around the Great Wheel.  I mean, if there weren't such a thing, how would the Modron March work?  It's not as simple as walking enough distance, though. I believe there are supposed to be gate-towns between adjacent planes on the Great Wheel that work much the same as the gate-towns in the Outlands, though they've never actually been detailed in any Planescape product.

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I think the Great Road

I think the Great Road refers to portals.

Nevertheless, I always thought those "thin places" were a good idea. If the river styx can connect the lower planes, and the Oceanus can flow through the uppers, why shouldn't there other, similar places with less power? There could be a forest on Ysgard, where those who get lost end up in Arborea. Or a deep cave on the plain of infinite portals could connect to Pandemonium. I used places like these, but only rarely.

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Sounds good. I completely

Sounds good.

I completely forgot the Great Road. There's so much information to keep in mind with Planescape... 

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"La la la, I'm a girl, I'm a pretty little girl!"

--Bel the Pit Fiend, Lord of the First (in a quiet hour of privacy)

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The Great Road refers to

The Great Road refers to the network of portals connecting the Outer Planes. This was explained in the Planescape Campaign Setting boxed set.

The modrons march through portals in the various gate towns. Their ordinary route is described in The Great Modron March. Not surprisingly, it resembles a gear, clockwise across the Great Ring, alternating Outlands portals and portals on the Ring.

1. Beginning in Regulus, take Automata portal into the Outlands. 2. Cross the Outlands to Fortitude. Take Fortitude's portal to Arcadia. 3. Cross Arcadia to take a portal (which appears as a white trellis) directly to Mount Celestia (Mount Celestia's gate-town to Arcadia is called Nemmiron). 4. From Mount Celestia, take Excelsior portal (a bobbing light above the ocean that you have to chase down) to the Outlands. 5. Cross the Outlands to Tradegate. Negotiate with the Master Trader to get into Bytopia. 6. Cross Bytopia to find a portal (which appears as a cavern with radiating lines shining within) leading directly to Elysium. 7. From Elysium, take the Ecstasy portal (a day's travel upstream from Release-From-Care, appearing as a dark cavern on the bank of the River Oceanus) into the Outlands, so the modrons come out from the Ivory Plinth in the center of town. 8. Cross the Outlands to Faunel. Negotiate with Wrath to get into the Beastlands. 9. Cross the Beastlands to find the Roaring Gate leading to Arborea. 10. From Arborea, use the portal to Sylvania in the center of the town of Thrassos. 11. Cross the Outlands from Sylvania to Glorium. Either the root of Yggdrasil in the caves near town or the Maelstrom portal in Glorium's fjord will work. 12. Cross Ysgard to find the portal to Limbo, which takes the form of a well (Yggdrasil also leads to Limbo, in the island of Pinwheel). Olidammara's realm might have a portal to Limbo in it. 13. The portal from Limbo to Xaos is an extremely chaotic region called the Immeasurable. It constantly changes in appearance on both sides. 14. March across the Outlands from Xaos to Bedlam. Use one of the portals on the base of the great hill Maraush to enter the Howling Plane. 15. From Pandemonium, the portal to the Abyss looks like a flat red square on the side of a cavern. The modrons come up from a black pit like those that lead to deeper layers. 16. Take the portal beneath Broken Reach in the Abyss to Plague-Mort. March across the Outlands to Curst. 17. Take the Razorvine Gate from Curst to Carceri. 18. The portal from Carceri to the Gray Waste looks like an obelisk carved with tortured faces. It is taller than it is wide. 19. The portal from the Gray Waste to Hopeless looks like a spinning silver coin, most likely protected by a fiendish fortress. They come out from a black pit filled with a tarlike substance. 20. March across the Outlands from Hopeless to Torch. 21. There's said to be a portal from Torch to Gehenna hidden in the swamps. This seems more practical than the main gate, the great blood-red orb you need to fly to get through safely. The modrons come up in Gehenna from a seemingly bottomless chasm in a cavern floor beneath the surface of the plane. 22. The portal from Gehenna to Baator is another chasm in a subterranean chasm floor. They enter Baator through a flaming hoop protected by amnizu and abishai. 23. The portal from Baator to Ribcage is in the town of Darkspine. It should be another flaming hoop. 24. They march from Ribcage to Rigus. The Lion's Gate in Rigus leads to the Blue Cube, the Battle Cube, or Resounding Thunder. They enter the plane from what appears to be a silent sphere on the surface of one of the cubes. 25. Resounding Thunder has the portal to Mechanus in it, in the town of Nihao. Nihao leads directly to Regulus, and they're done. In the most recent march, they took a detour, using a portal in the goblin city of Gashmog in Clangor to get to the duergar realm of Hammergrim, through another portal to the Mines of Marsellin, and finally through a portal to Mechanus there.

 

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ripvanwormer wrote:

ripvanwormer wrote:

Sigil's portals can lead anywhere. Absolutely anywhere.

What about Athas? That world is somehow secluded.

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They can lead to Athas,

They can lead to Athas, it's just that portals to isolated worlds happen to be rarer.

And there happens to be an Athasian Halfling ghetto mentioned in one of the official products too.

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You know, there are a lot of

You know, there are a lot of bad parts of a lot of towns in the real world, but that takes the cake. I'll take the worst Earth has to offer over Sigil's waist-high cannibal community any day Tongue out

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There's also New Tyr, a

There's also New Tyr, a community of Athasian expatriates in the Hive Ward. There's also a portal to Athas in Pelion, Arborea's first layer (and Athasian elves have been seen in the desert there), and Athas has vortices to the Inner Planes as usual (though they have different names for the paraelemental planes there).

But sure, there's no reason you couldn't find a portal in Sigil leading to Ravenloft, Agathion, Eberron, the Far Realm, our modern Earth, the Demiplane of Imprisonment, alternate-reality versions of Sigil, the past or future... absolutely anywhere.

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I've come up with another

I've come up with another thing I'd like some input how to handle it: Conduits.

There's apparently a difference between portals and conduits. The former connect Sigil with everything else and the latter the Material and the outer planes. That's new to me, since I got most of my knowledge about this kind of stuff from 3rd Ed Forgotten Realms sources and had no idea that there even were conduits. I thought it's all portals (Faerûn is full of portals to other places on that Toril and sometimes to other planes as well although not to the Wheel planes as far as I can tell).

Now I wonder what else is there to know about conduits? Does the difference to portals even matter at all? Or was the idea of differentiating conduits and portals simply abolished in the third edition so that I couldn't notice?

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Yea. conduits were droped

Yea. conduits were droped from 3e. For simplicity's sake. In 1e & 2e there were several types of planar connections.

-Conduits connect the Prime with the outer planes. They cross the Astral, though the trip is so fast few travelers notice. However, it is possible to fall out of a conduit and end up on the astral. It is also possible for the end of a conduit to change location, dumping a traveler somewhere they didn't expect.

-Vortecies link the Prime with the inner planes. They are usually open 100% of the time, so exist in areas with a serious environmental connection to their destination, i.e. a vortex leading to the elemental plane of fire or para-elemental plane of magma will be in the middle of a volcano, one leading to the plane of water will be in a large water body, etc.

-Color Pools exist on the Astral, and lead to the outer planes. There is some debate, depending on the source, as to whether one can tell the destination by the color. In any case, they are only colored on one side, so a traveler can blunder into one without ever seeing it.

- Portals and gates are similar in that they lead from one plane to another, or from Sigil to somewhere, without passing through anywhere else inbetween. The major differance is that gates are perminant and constant.

Of course I may be mis-remembering some details, but I'm sure some master of canon or another will correct anything I left out.

 

 

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Thanks. Looks like the

Thanks. Smiling

Looks like the difference between conduits and portals's not really big. 

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"La la la, I'm a girl, I'm a pretty little girl!"

--Bel the Pit Fiend, Lord of the First (in a quiet hour of privacy)

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Calmar wrote: Looks like

Calmar wrote:

Looks like the difference between conduits and portals's not really big.

Well, that depends.  To a planar scholar, the differance is huge: they're different, period.  To the average planewalker, the difference is academic ... until a conduit drops one off in the middle of the Astral, far too close for comfort to a gityanki fort.

Personally, I like the idea of various types of planar connections.  They give scholarly NPCs something to rattle their bone-boxes about.  They add to the complexity, and consequently the wonder and mystery, of the planes.

So, in my campaigns I use Portals, Gates, Conduits, and Votecies all.  I also use Planar Barriers, large-scale regions like the barrier between the layers of Bitopia, and Conjuctions (from Beyond Countless Doorways), which are when planes temporarily overlap.

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What I mean is that I don't

What I mean is that I don't accidentally mix them up. Since I now know that there are conduits, I'm going to use them, too.

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"La la la, I'm a girl, I'm a pretty little girl!"

--Bel the Pit Fiend, Lord of the First (in a quiet hour of privacy)

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Another interesting thing to

Another interesting thing to keep in mind about conduits is they're the channels through which divine power passes from power to priest and vice versa (in the case of worshipping).  They're also the means by which souls leave the Prime and journey to the Outer Planes.

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Heh, I'm actually thinking

Heh, I'm actually thinking of creating a campaign, or at least the skeleton of one, based around an avangion resurrecting some Athasian living Vortices, plane-shifting them to the astral and then attempting to convert them into conduits to allow powers to access Athas again.

I'll let you know if anything comes of it.

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