Planescape Introductory Adventure

Let me iterate Rhys' mention that we should start small. Although Faction War and Die Vecna, Die! were memorable plane-shattering adventures, they should not be the norm, even in a place as odd as the multiverse. Small, local adventures, covering two to three planes and Sigil should be more than enough for a start. If we want to start something huge (such as the *Holy/Peace War* idea that's hanging somewhere around the forums in a state of limbo for the time being), it should really be a group project. These small adventures for lvls 1-10 can be created by one person, and are easier to both build experience on and playtest.

Rhys & Company,

I laud the idea. Infact, something important I feel for this community is not merely to sigh and "talk o' the good days", but to further append and progress the setting. The PSCS is an absolutely excellent example of such. The idea of a campaign follows perfectly along this line.

My proposal is that we learn from Dungeon's recent successes. Instead of merely a single, stand alone adventure, I propose we do an adventure arc.

Although it would be terrific to do an entire campaign, I think it would be far more realistic and prudent to do a smaller set -perhaps three related adventure modules. Each would have a side-bar that would detail how they could be used as a stand-alone/independant adventure if so desired.

Not only would this allow a relative diversity and pull (people have generally been far more interested in published adventures -statistically- if there is some product that can be used in conjunction to make the whole greater than the sum or all the parts), but this would also keep us from investing in 1. time and 2. effort is there is no significant reception from the populace (as well as allow enough of a "data" pool to draw conclusions on how to advance/correct any changes in future products).

Also, I would stress that it should be a team project.

Organization should follow as such (or something along its lines):

1. Loose perameters should be discussed (most of which already has been, so this step is just about done).

2. Adventure Arc proposals should be given (really just rough ideas -i.e. the basic "thread", with perhaps a very short summary of what the three adventures might be).

3. The community (in this case, those on this thread) should discuss the merits of various proposals. In the end, one idea (with perhaps synthesis of several others in part) should be selected -hopefully this will be done by a consensus. If this requires soft voting, ok, but in the end, I say it should be ratified by Rhys (the "official" director of the project).

4. Once a rough concept is chosen, then the work really begins. With the very, very rough idea already in place, the first adventure -prooject should start by selecting a project leader. (Who may or may not be the same for all three modules of the arc).

The project leader does not necessarily need to be the original creator of the idea, nor the main writer -instead, they serve as the nominal organizational head -helping to dole out project, and acting as a moderator between ideas, and the final say on what stays and what goes -although the real goal is to reach a consensus.

Depending on the nature of the adventure, the project leader will outline the adventure -and then with a skeleton in place will be able to assigh sections to flesh out (i.e. someone to handle the artwork on the minotaur bodyguard and his warlock mistress, or someone to stat the traps in the shrine of the Steaming Fen, and someone else to write up the sample PCs).

During this step the rough drafts could all be displayed for the thread-community to view and give suggestions and opinions on, with the project leader starting up threads for questions and finding the resources needed -i.e. tech support for formatting it all, final editors, etc.

5. Playtesters are needed -specifically more than one group -with at least one DM'd by a PS rookie and another by a veteran.

6. Planewalker bigwigs take a look at polish draft, make any necessary changes, and *poof* it is ready to post as a completed project.

7. Once the first project is done, the second one is started, with all the same steps -making any modifications as experience relates and teaches.

That all said...

I agree with sample PCs, but I think we should make the adventures neutral in the sense that you don't have use them. This would be very similar to what many 2nd Edition modules did -at the back, or stapled in themiddle were a bunch of sample PCs -usually more than four for more variety, but were never mentioned in the actual adventure itself).

As for adventure level, well that is a bit trickier. (Although I feel we should start it at 10th level, I can concede that we may want to gear it to beginners, starting at the beginning)

Honestly, many PS fans enjoy the wide racial options, and to pick to start at 1st level really limits it.

My recommendation:

Have the first one be a module for 3rd or 4th level characters.

If the Players choose a PC with no LA -then it is ok -it is still a relatively low-level campaign -especially since no caster can use a 3d level spell (those are really big milestones in campaign design as you have to consistently work around/with PCs casting fireballs and fly, etc).

At the same time, most LA -PS-PC races have LA+2, or +1, and so Players would have a wide variety from the get-go, and still have a level or two. (This is especially important since most groups will have a mix of LA and non-LA PCs).

Thus, the adventure arc would be something along the lines of:

1st module -3/4th level
2nd module -5/6th level (thus incorporating those spells, but not having the issues of consistent scry, sending, and teleport)
3rd module -7/8th (with its terminus having a potential CR 12 BBEG or somesuch, which gives a lot of option is is still relatively remarkable, as well as only at the very end, needing to worry about mass sendings and scrying).

*Note, I have no problem with higher or even epic level play and their spells, but it is only logical to state that such inclusion is more difficult from a campaign design -and as this is our first such attempt, we should set goals as such.

Something to note in conclusion is that we should consider not only touching upon old subjects (such as having Sigil being a major point of the arc, with some references or revisting old sites, but we should also pick an area to develop something -so that to the "graybeards" there is something new to offer as well).

As for art -well, it is a very tricky situation. I'm not going to "rob a bank" and so we are out of luck -the grandmaster of PS art is beyond our reach. (at least mine).

I think trying to copy his style would be practically impossible -everything will look like cheap knockoffs.

Instead, I think we should adopt an original style -we will still want to keep the "spirit/geist" and stay true to canon. Part of the project leaders job will be to review submitted art proposals, and to select a group of artists. Specifically, one shouls be selected for most of the "interior" art -i.e. NPCs and actionshots, while secondary artists could help (sidebar art to go along with sidebar stats on a new magic item, or computer graphics to assist with scroll and border work).
Like the project leader, the primary artist need not be the same for all three modules.

I think that this is a great idea, and I have even opened one of those threads you mentioned yesterday (about wanting to join games).

I don't think PS is too difficult to understand; I think I've more or less got the hang of it just by reading different books and materials. My main problem is finding an actual DM to run these games, which is why I came to these forums in the first place... but even here there seems to be a lack of games (or at least games that need players).

In any case, if you do create an Introductory Adventure for PS, I'll make sure that I play it (providing that I actually manage to find a DM+group).

Iavas,

Thank you for the reply.

To reiterate my earlier statement -how do you feel about doing a three-module campaign arc?

(Each can still be relatively short).

And I think we actually agree on only having 1-2 persons working on each module "full-time" -but it would most certainly extra input in regards to artwork, tech support, and it would not hurt to make it a group effort along the way (such as handing out tasks to type up stats or formatting, editing -which would greatly reduce the work load of the "full-timers").

I also think that it is important that the adventure have some degree of input at the beginning -something that a consensus could say we agree on -especially since this is supposed to be Planewalker's attempt to incorporate themselves into new gaming circles.

I also think that it would be nice to slightly develop a new area, and that such should have some input as a group.

The references to the Holy/Peace War are apt -part of their problem is that their is no one leader/manager of the project (versus just too many hands in the pot, it is just no one head chef, proverbably speaking).

Also, part of the problem with starting at first level means that the Players can't choose Tiefling, Modron, Bladelings, Chaond, etc -all being such a huge portion of Planescape and their appeal to Players.

I think we should start as low as possible, but still high enough to allow minor Planar LA races -which means 3rd or 4th level.

Also, did anyone take a look at my link?

All right, I really don't like the idea of an "introductory" adventure starting any higher than third level. Too much complexity, ooh, I've got an idea that's in keeping with Dialexis' three part theory (I personally can't stand the rule of three, but it is a good design concept):

Levels 1-2: Welcome to Sigil! Prime characters somehow get to the City of Doors, and have to figure out what to do once they get there. This will probably involve them getting sent to the Cage by some Prime on some quest to retrieve a McGuffin or find some person or something like that. They go through a lot of hoops (and fights with the locals) before they finaly find a lead.

Levels 3-4: Welcome to (a) Hell! After beating up some goons of a mysterious Big Bad, the primes (or Planars who skipped the first adventure) find a portal to somewhere (probably one of the more survivable Lower Planes like Acheron or Pandemonium) and go there to look for clues. After combat with the natives, they break into the base of one of the Big Bad's minions and, after fighting him, they finally learn the identity of the shadowy figure who holds the precious McGuffin and return to Sigil to hunt him down.

Levels 5-6: Back so soon? Players search Sigil for the mysterious big bad, and eventually find him, fight through his goons, and have a climactic confrontation with him. Even though they beat him and stop his evil, they fail to achieve whatever goal they set out for, which gives DM's a ready-made excuse to stay in the planes once the arc is over.

Doing great work here guys. Let me know if there's any jobs you want me to take on, otherwise I'll just lurk and post when the inspiration hits me.

2nd module:

Adventure Background: Carnot and Taixu (still in guise as loyal assistant, Japhy Gadar) have discovered the existence of the Apocalypse Engine. However, the details on its use, manufacture, and perhaps most pressing –its location are obscured from the havoc of the Faction War and its aftermath.

To find these answers, Carnot and Taixu begin abducting veteran members of the two factions involved in its creation. Initially, they begin by abducting the Doomguards resident in Sigil. Initially, most residents of Sigil think nothing of the disappearances as the Doomguard are not well liked among the greater populace. And even when a few Doomguards wind up dead, most citizens merely dismiss the issue as being just another manifestation of the sects fighting amongst themselves and off’ing the rivals.

(The truth is that Taixu has persuaded a Babau and his Dretch henchmen to act as his kidnappers, but sometimes they get a little sloppy in following orders).

However, canny cutters tend to take a much closer look when a number of the Dustmen go missing.

To make matters worse, the unlikely pair have allied with Iunne, the Twice-Fallen Asura Dustmen Factotum.

Adventure Synopsis: Recommended by the Dragoness as problem solvers, they are hired by a Factotum of the Dustmen to solve the riddle (as doing so themselves might require too much “passion”).

The PCs can search around the residences of the slain Doomguard (and have a random encounter with a Doomquard thinking them to be members of the rival sect, sent to kill them). PCs might find several clues along the way to lead them to believe that the kidnapping and murders are the result of demons.

Canny (as well as cautious and well paying) PCs might investigate several ways to discover that the Babau was hired by another of the Factotum of the Dustmen –who is partially allied with Taixu, hoping that the Apocalypse Engine could be retrieved and put to use for his Faction (but knows that it is in the hands of the Doomguard, though this later part would not be obvious).

Otherwise, the PCs could try to stage an ambush at the Mortuary, and possibly trap the Babau –who will likewise tell who its employer is if let go (the Dretches can’t relate anything of use).

If the PCs continue without making any progress, they will eventually be targeted for abduction by Taixu, who will send out the Babau to kidnap the PCs before they uncover too much. If captured, they can hopefully escape, but regardless, the PCs should eventually link the demons to the Dustman Factotum Iunne.

Depending on how the PCs confront the Factotum Iunne (who, though allied with the Anarchists, is still a Dustman), they may have to fight him, or may be able to convince him to reveal the location of the holding cells for the kidnapped (which is actually in a cell-headquarters of the Revolutionary League in the first layer of Carceri). Despite being CN, Iunne will tell the truth if directly questioned as he is still an Asura and impeccably honest.

Obtaining the passage to the portal, the PCs will have to fight off the normal denziens of the Planes, and then infiltrate the Anarchist stronghold, and eventually defeat the half-gehreleth jailor. Freeing the prisoners, they can find out a few clues about Carnot, and his research into the Apocalypse Engine. Investigation of the building will reveal Carnot’s study –and although most of the relevant schematics and evidence have already been taken, there is a left note, saying that the Engine has been discovered, and its portal (which is at the old Armory) is nearly complete (Carnot wrote the note for “Gadar” to follow once he returned from another task –which unknown to Carnot was Taixu retrieving the Seed of Renbuu). They might also locate Carnot’s list of those he needed to “question”. All are crossed out except for one name –Ylem (This won’t factor in till the next adventure though, but will foreshadow the events to come).

The PCs will need to travel back by the Anarchist's portal to Sigil (perhaps earning the ire or respect of its Faction members).

Technically the PCs could stop here -and if they do, that's OK.

However, they could wish to pursue the mystery further (perhaps hired by the Harmonium to investigate the rumored portal underneath their newly constructed Armory). Or they could attempt to track down the Iunne (he has since left with Carnot), or the Engine itself.

If they do proceede...

Following the notes, the PCs will follow a secret tunnel route below the newly reconstructed Armory. Foloowing the directions on Cornat's map, the PCs will discover a strange sight: a group of Rogue Modrons repairing a portal in the ruins of the Old Armory. The repair work is being supervised by a "mage" -who is actually a shape-changed Green Slaad, and disciple of Taixu. Although the Armory was all but anihilated during the Faction War and its major portals were all destroyed, Carnot discovered that one of the portals was not beyond repair. Over time, and with additional magic, he has persuaded a group of rogue Modrons to help repair the malfunctioning portal, specifically, the one leading to the Crumbling Citadel, in the Quasielemental Plane of Ash.

Either through diplomacy, guile, or force, the PCs will need to enter the portal, trying to find this "Japhy and Carnot".

Carnot, through his "questioning" of veteran Doomquard and through Taixu's sources in the Revolutionary League, have discovered that the Apocalypse Engine is located within the ruins of the Crumbling Citadel.
Inside, the PCs will have to deal with the Plane itself (though mitigated by the failing protective magics of the Faction), the crumbling fortress itself, roaming undead, and ancient faction traps.

To make matters worse, Carnot and Taixu's activities have stirred up a lot of trouble with the Doomguard, and a group of Ashers and Salties arrive at the Citadel shortly after the PCs arrive, causing further chaos and destruction. However, wise PCs might be able to ally with one of the two sides for aid in seeking the object or Carnot, or at least bypassing the enviromental dangers.

In the end, the PCs should confront Carnot as they reach the Apocalypse Engine. Depending on how the PCs confront the Rogue Modron, they may be able to find out a lot about their plans, or even be invited to aid their cause.

However, niether Taixu nor Carnot will allow the PCs to disrupt their plans. Luckily for the PCs, their main objective is to get the Apocalypse Engine safely out of the Citadel and Plane.

The end of this adventure is very open (clearly the Modron and the Death Slaad are too powerful for the PCs, but niether are interested in killing the PCs at this time. However, at this time, they do not wish for their plans to be revealed too soon, and so they will attempt to destroy the entire Crumbling Citadel by activating the Apocalypse Engine (and likely bringing down the roof on both the Ashers and the Salties). As the item needs to be repaired slightly, Carnot and Taixu will be busy prepping the device. To stop the PCs from meddling, they will have Iunne hold off the PCs along with some lesser henchmen (maybe undead Dustmen?).

In the midst of this battle, the Ashers and the Salties will clash (the latter being temporary allies with Taixu). To make matters worse, the Salties have freed a trapped Rust Dragon.
As the engine activates, and the Citadel truly begins to disintegrate, the PCs will need to quickly get out of the Plane (either doing so by stepping through Carnot's portal, or through the aid of the Ashers, or by some other means). However, most of the Doomgaurd will not be so lucky.

In the aftermath, the PCs are sure to have a few questions -and so are others -as the events are sparking the interests of a lot of groups (i.e. not only the Doomgaurd factions wanting to know who was responsible for the destruction of their stronghold, but also the Harmonium interested in the remnant portal below their Armory, as well as the Dustmen in the discovery of their artifact-device.

I like the idea. Here's some problems I see in it (don't take this personally, just trying to apply some constructive criticism):

¤) I see many relatively touch creatures, some of which the PC's even have to face in battle, if not necessarily defeat. On the other hand, there do not seem to be that many enemies that the PC's, given a level 3-5, could stand a chance of defeating without help. I realize that this is, after all, Planescape, and your wits should get you farther than your sword arm, but battles still obviously arise and having the main enemy either run away, ignore you, or be defeated with the help of a similarly powerful ally gets old really fast. Even the Babau, which is CR6 without class levels, is dangerously powerful, especially with minions. This is assuming that the main villain, the Death Slaad (the fact that death slaad should be around CR20 in my opinion I'll leave for another time) is one of those behind-the-scenes villains that you shouldn't actually face in battle until well into your teens.

¤) For a single adventure, there are very many individuals who are not what they seem to be. The slaad, the dragon, the Rakshasa, the Anarchist Factotum, etc. It might get a little too confusing for a first run through.

¤) The chaos of the slaad should be toned up, so as to give the whole chaos-vs-law theme more atmosphere.

Aside from the last point, the criticism mostly falls on the fact that this should be a relatively low level introductory adventure. However, aside from that, it seems very well written and thought through.

Iavas,

Your point is well-taken. However, let me try to illustrate how I have already incorporated such concepts into the design.

Take the first adventure. Standard group of PCs, level 3.

The first adventure includes the Zelekhut busting in and attempting to take out the mercenary. The CR 7 Inevitable is not going to be really fighting the PCs. (Though there may be some interaction, as well as foreshadowing a big battle).

However, the PCs are going to be battling the Bladeling mercs -and at a CR 1 each, you can throw a small gang, and have the party statistically do very well against these foes.

So, looking at a real EL or 3 -right on the money, maybe even lower really.

The next round is more investigative -as well as perhaps having some "random" encounter -such as when the ask around and might have to deal with some sinker thugs (foreshadowing) trying to mess with a Fraternity lawyer (who could be a lead as to the list of wanted mercenaries) -this would also be another low EL (2-3?). This latter is just an example -one of the ways, we all can add our own touches. Despite the length, my proposal is still an overview.

Traveleing to Elysium (which should not be too dangerous at all), the PCs encounter a Red Slaadi (CR 6) and maybe a Chaond Bard (who mostly is about illusions I think -or some other equivalent thing -we can decide details letter if we choose to go this route). Such an encounter is an EL 6, or maybe 7 (which is certainly within the DMG standard -its a very challenging encounter, but not one that has to end in violence, and if it does, and it does not need to be to the death -i.e. the Chaond and Slaadi have no need to kill the PCs. Moreover, they would/could be Celestials coming out of the woodwork to help or heal or aid at the end -but regardless, EL 6-7 isn't unrealistic, especially since the positive healing of the plane benefits the PCs far more since the Red already has some).

The next set (meaning there are opportunities to expand if desired) of encounters would be in Archeron.

Not only can you throw some minor EL challenges their way (maybe a Gauth slaver? =EL 6), their next "scheduled one" would be the strike on the goblin outpost. Goblin petitioners are low-CR combatants -and so by this time the PCs are most likely ECL 4, and so can more than take on a bunch of them, even if lead by a say a 4th level Blue, or a Bugbear, with some henchmen -i.e. more like a dungeon crawl, since the PCs should not be stupid enough to fight all its goblins at once. Not to mention the really canny should benefit from the timing of the orc raid, at the end -who even then are low individual CR's).

And though Visravas's manor could take many forms -he is busy with the transformation, and thus must rely upon his guards and magic traps in place (imagine things like LE topiary guardians -low CR, and CR 3 traps, and such). Maugs are tough, but still within CR range -these would be his elite units, the more common toughs being NPCs or 1-2 levels.
All together, a series of EL 3-6 encounters -which is standard for the adventures.

The final "boss" fight with the Rakshasa is definately the toughest. However, by himself he is a CR /EL 7. Standard rules usually set the BBEG at being PC average level +4 (which by this time would be EL . So, we could even through in a pair of melee guards. Or, if we feel (as I do) that Rakshasas are very "high" CR 7's, we can leave him alone in the chamber.

This doesn't inlcude the PCs might gain aid from Taixu (though the ending proscribed really has the PCs beating on their own). Also, remember that the PCs don't have to kill the Rakshasa in order to win -all they have to do is get the eggs.

The end can resolve in a number of ways -but even if it is a straight fight between BBEG vs. PCs -the EL is way within the limits.

2nd module:

As you said, many encounters can be bypassed by saavy PCs, but more militant PCs are just fine too.

For instance -checking out the scenes and fighting some Salties or paranoid Ashers in Sigil could have a nice EL of 5 (maybe a 3rd level Sinker and/or a Minotaur Sinker). Since the party is 5th level by now, this isn't a huge EL at all.

Depending on how the PCs continue the search -they could end up facing a CR 6 Babau with 2 CR 2 Dretch lackeys -for a total of EL 7 -a tough fight, but too high since the PCs are a ECL 5 by now. And this battle is made even easier if they PCs have picked up on clues as to the nature of the culprits. Of course along their way, they might have more random clues (consider a summoned rast by a bitter wizard at the death of the Rakshasas among the Sodkillers just to spice things up -or something similar.

Fighting (or talking) to the Factotum in league with Carnot, should be a CR 7 -(I am actually thinking of switching it to have this Factotum be Iunne the CN Dustmen Asura -which would be perfect with the Plane of Ash final encounter as well as the spilling of the beans by telling the truth, and in CR level).

PCs traveling to the Carceri, should overtly face any Demodands/Gerheleths, but may face a pack of CR 3 Howlers (ECL 6?). In the Anarchist holding cell, the PCs could either face a couple of CR 1-2 NPCs, in sequence, with the BBEG being a Half-Gerheleth jailor -complete with Quasit familiar! (This being about a CR 8? EL). A harder and possibly climax fight if the PCs don't continue on the the Crumbling Citadel.

If they do continue, they will probably be at least 6th level PCs by now. They will face (once again all the scenarios don't have to end in fighting -but CAN), a Green Slaadi with a bunch of rogue Modron workers (1 CR 9 with maybe 4 CR 1's -equal EL 9 -which is tough, but definatley on par with 6th ECL PCs).

Inside the Crumbling Citadel, they would face traps & hazards (EL 2-5?), as well as undead (low-level gangs of zombies and other encounters spiced with higher CR undead -but still ELs of 7 and lower).

The Asher and Salties can balance each other or be dealt with in small groups of ELs 4-7.

The final fight with the Apocolypse Engine doesn't include the PCs fighting Carnot or Taixu. Instead, they must/can fight the Asura once and for all (CR 7) with some back-up thugs -Sinkers adding +1/2 to the EL. Throw in a small (enough) Rust Dragon, and you have a EL or 9 or 10 (which is in line for the climax battle of the adventures) -and even this is mitigated if the PCs can ally with the Ashers.

Thus, although you may only see the BBEG's listed, if you look closely, you will see that the entire arc proposal stays within the DMG standards of good adventure EL design.

(I do appreciate you bringing up the point though).

As for incognito NPCs -well, this IS Planescape -what else do we expect -where nothing is exactly as it seems -it is one of the halmarks of the game setting.

And granted, the proposal does include elements of mystery, hack-n-slash, role-play, and philosophy all in one. However, any one of these aspects could be diminished or hieghtened to suit each DMs desires/tastes (as well as the DMing style desired by the Players).

For instance, you don't need to unravel the Rakshasa's true nature to beat him, but if you do you can load up on blessed arrows and such.

All that said -in the first module, only 2 NPCs are actually in disguise -one being an ally and the other the villian.

For a total of like 13 encounters with probably 50? NPCs? that isn't too many.

Also, the two may conceal their physical identities behind magic, but they are who they say they are -instead of acting incognito too.

As for the second adventure -the only disguised persona is Taixu as Japhy Gadar. Iunne the Dustmen -allied with the Anarchist is not disguised at all -in fact as an Asura, any direct question will get a completely honset answer. There may be a duality of loyalty, but not a disguise per sae.

As for toning up the Chaos of Taixu -I have been brief in his personality; however, consider this -he isn't really evil (which makes him a more interesting Planescapy foe -or ally).

Something that makes a lot of people sick is how Slaad are often ALL portrayed as lunatic morons. A Death Slaadi is wise and intelligent -and should be able to be such in-game too.

Let me know how you would like for him to be more chaotic (but if you tell me to have him sing backwards and ride a unicycle, then I'll take a dim view).

Consider his actions -he is trying to bring about anarchy, and social/political revolution, at the same time bringing about Entropy as well. He has warped a Modron, and assumes changing personas and aliases (as any good Anarchist does).

The only thing he does in the 1st adventure is to send a pair of Slaad-kin to find a merc (and could be plenty random enough in Elysium) and then at the end, pop in and grab some seemingly unrelated item -and probably causes all kinds of chaos in the labratory before he leaves.

The second adventure shows how he is causing all kinds of strife between factions (divisions and paranoia between the Sinkers, infiltrating the Dustmen, etc). He uses and abandons all kinds of minions/dupes (demons, Asuras, Sinkers, and Modrons and Slaadi).

The somewhat Lawful bent of the Apocalypse Engine retrevial is due to the influence of Carnot, who systematically goes about his research (but becomes messy due to Taixu's influence).

And in the end, wait till the third and final adventure, when all his chaotic-ness is revealed in its full glory.

(Oh, and I agree about the Death Slaad CR, but what can we do? If we prefer, we could make him a Gray, on the cusp of becoming a Black?)

OF, consider that I just downloaded a whole lot of information in a rapid blitz summary. It really isn't that much more complex than your standard three-part module currently published.

As for the false identies, see my comments above to Iavas.

As for the Copper to Green -it is to illustrate the Power of the Seed of Renbuu -the change of colors and spirit. (Not only changing color, but from Elements -Green (Air) from Copper(Earth) -as well as CG to LE -there is also a persona as well.

The concept is important to the meta-plot and should be a whoa-cool factors for the PCs.

As for all Slaad being insane -refer to earlier comments (they may seem insane to you, but their choices have validity, not innocence through insanity). Look at what he does and how he does it, and his final goal, and you can see how Taixu is C(E).

But I'll repeat, Slaadi are not demon-lite.

Ok, thanks for all the feedback. This is just a proposal and want it to be a team decision -regardless of which idea is selected.

Ok, I have an idea.

beginning: Our happy PCs arrive in sigil, take a look around and settle down getting a kip to live in.
The kip that our PCs make their home in has a really big mirror in it attached to the wall. Once the PCs are all together and no one else is listening, a face appears on the mirror and speaks to them. The mirror has been waiting for new persons to occupy the kip, and your PCs just happen to be the lucky people. The face in question is one of the higher ranking doomguard from Citadul Cavitius (Ash), whose section is all about slowing entropy in the multiverse. He talks to the PCs and convinces them to join the Doomguard Faction, detailing that the doomguard of the salt citadel want to speed up entropy as fast as possible, and that help would much be liked in countering these.
Soon after the PCs join the Doomguard, the doomguard pay for a genie exploratory vessel to pick the PCs up and take them to the Ash citadel. There they are given (nonmagical) rings with the doomguard symbol on them to signify them as faction members. Before getting into the business of halting the salties, the Doomguard give the PCs a rare portal creating device (which is consumed when used to create a portal) which creates a permanent two-way portal between where the operator of the device is and to a specific place in a plane the operator desires(must have been there before), with which portal keys can be assigned. They are sent back to sigil via the genie vessel and are told to create a portal in some abandoned building or undersigil or whatever to the citadel with the portal key as the rings in the place (clearing out any pests first;)), so they can recruit more people to their cause. As soon as this is done, doomguards come through the portal and start building and patching the place up. The doomguard will then begin recruiting people (In secret), and start selling items to the people of sigil to make a profit.

After that it gets more interesting, though this is where the DM comes up with his own stuff for a couple of levels. This is where the doomguard sends the PCs off to stop the salties plans (attacking people) and giving the doomguard a bad name across the planes.

levels 6 and 7 maybe: After greatly hindering the salties, the PCs take a break from them. The doomguard send them to the quasielemental plane of thorns ((negative energy-plane of wood)and what i hope to be in chapter 8 of PLSC), with other doomguard, to start the building process of another citadul. The plane of thorns is the rumoured origin of razorvine, and the doomguard want to do some research into its nature (potentially helping the people of sigil), and maybe make other things on the plane of thorns. Once done, a portal is made from the citadul to the ash citadul, which the PCs travel through, and are given another portal device, with which they are to go through the portal to sigil and create another portal to the thorn citadul in the same building. The thorn citadul will be able to accomodate the newly growing members of the doomguard as well as study the plane of thorns. A new doomlord will have to be assigned to the citadul.

Building the citadul will involve staying on the plane of thorns for many months, slaying those native to the plane if they are hostile towards the doomguard, and generally making sure the building procedure happens on schedule. Hey, this be the first time PCs have helped build a building!
Lets say the PCs gain 1 level for entering the plane of thorns and traversing through the plane with all the other doomguard far enough into the plane and into a place where building looks good.(lots of natives to the plane will attack the doomguard). And 1 more level for helping build the citadul.

level 9: This is where i really like it. On each elemental plane Good and Evil archomentals are battling for control of their specific planes. The doomguards have learned, to their horror, that good on ever single elemental plane (Not including the wood ones), is slowly, but surely losing. First they witnessed this in the plane of ash, and upon contact with the voids and dusters the same thing was happening. So dispatched through the plane they went, and learned the same thing for every elemental plane. What this would mean for the multiverse if all the elemental planes turned evil is unthinkable. Each good archomental has fallen into a deep coma. The doomguards don't know what evil caused it, but are certain that it was from outside work. What they do know, however, is that there are cures to bring each of these archomentals back into conciousness. That is where the PCs come in. The PCs have to get these cures and go to every elemental plane. This will take quite a few sessions;)

Most important to note is this: Each cure for the archomental on a specific plane is found on the opposing plane that the archomental resides on. The PCs will be told what to get.

For example:
The water archomental can only be cured by a rare plant that grows on the islands of rock in the paraelemental plane of magma. The reason it's rare is because of magma(template from denzinens of the inner planes applied) darktentacles (MMII) that dwell around the islands pulling the cutters into the magma. Not that our fellow PCs should know about this monster of course.

The rest of the cures are up to you lot to help with.

High levels: At higher levels the PCs should find out one way or another who was behind these comas. I personally, am going to use denzinens of the far realm as the ones who did it, but others can use who they want as the greater evil behind this.

The way mine will continue is this: Dieties of the far realm want to bring insanity across the whole multiverse. It would have helped them greatly if the evil of the elemental planes bought untold chaos throughout the multiverse, but alas.

They plan to do this via something I like to call caveway portals. These take time to create, and arent done so lightly. They require a titanic amount of rock to be done. A considerably powerful entity from the far realm must connect with a considerably powerful entity from anywhere other than the far realm (The evil archomentals anyone?) These two entities start to become one with the rock, each on either side creating a titanic tunnel through the rock, until eventually both tunnels connect, making a permanent gateway to either realm. At the front of either side of the tunnel is the entities face (At the top), which can still speak. As one travels through the tunnel one can see all the innards of the entity pulsating along the walls (viens, the heart, etc). It would take considerable power to harm the walls. During the melding process, the entities are powerless, so they will have lots of things there to protect them.

It is my PCs job to stop these forming, or, if any form, to collapse the magically protected tunnels.

Iavas,

Glad to hear it. And I appreciated the questioning. A product can only get better as we all try to refine it and check for errors. Thank you for considering my response in kind.

I actually totally agree with you on that one. In fact, that was all I was really thinking should be magically incognito. Rule of Three's strikes again!

And remember that the adventures are written so that you don't have to figure out who they are -but if you do, you've unlocked another level of Planescapey-ness.

Honestly, if we want to -Visravas doesn't even need to be disguised at all if we want to eliminate that one (although it does help to build his M.O. as a Rakshasa).

Oops, typo! I meant to write "Death" instead of "Black". Yeah, no ELH Slaad this time...

Hmm, I really do agree with restating the Slaad progression, but I would be apprehensive about doing so for the introductory campaign. If people want to, I am ok with that (and instead simply make Taixu a Gray instead of Death -it wouldn't change much).

I see what you are saying -and I can agree to it. (For instance, the Slaad and Chaond in Elysium in the first Module could have thought they were going to meet Taixu, but he bailed and went to Archeron instead).

At the same time though -remember that Randomness is not the end-all-be-all of Chaos. Randomness is typified by the Slaadi Lord Chourst. (and he is not even one of the two main Slaadi Lords).

For instance -consider the Mad Zen, or the Egoist -each are ammoral and CN, but niether are random in their choices (in essence, randomness would actually nullify the efficacy of their agency).

But anyways, your point is well taken. Consider this: Just as Taixu's chaoticness has affected the LN Carnot, so too has Carnot's Lawfulness affected the CN(E) Taixu -which helps to explain his less then incomprehensibleness.

Or, if you prefer -consider the analogy of the atom. Carnot is like the nucleus, stable and centered, where Taixu is like the electron errectically and nearly unpredictabley jumping all around in orbit.

Duckluck,

Check the Facts. Reread my post -you are jumping to erroneous conclusions. There are no multiple Rakshasas -only one -a CR 7 BBEG as the climatic battle, for a group of then 4th-to 5th ECL PCs. That is completely within the rules and guidelines for D&D (Check the DMG). For further proof, check and compare the official adventure modules put out -they all have exactly the same standard (you can actually read up on some of the Dungeon magazine standards and they also verify this).

Look back over my long post and you will see that they don't encounter CR 7 monsters all the time -majority are EL 3-EL 4, with a few lower and a few higher (check DMG for statistical standard and see how it conforms).

And the Rust Dragon isn't a Wyrm -use common sense. In the very first 3rd Edition module (Sunless Citadel for 1st level characters) they had to take on a White Wyrmling -whose CR was 3.

The Rust Dragon will be be young enough and small enough to be of a CR 7ish age category.

Not factual -go back and look at the official rules of the DMG for related percentage of encounters at relative ELs -and likewise compare to official modules of 3.X edition and Dungeon magazine.

I agree with this. Hence the reason why each module is long enough to have the PCs advance along the way (with easy and moderately challenging encounters) and gain opportunities to prepare themselves for the big battles (as well as mitigating circumstances that are nearly always in the PCs favor -i.e. The Armory Portal Battle is tough with the Green Slaad, but after the fight, they can rest as long as they need to, or in the fight with the Rakshasa, they don't actually have to kill him to win, or might recieve aid from Taixu, and/or could turn the Zelekhut against the fiend if they have enough evidence, and the list goes on and on (check my initial post on this issue).

And remember, Rhys has said that this is supposed to be a set of modules that introduces the setting -NOT the game. In other words, this adventure arc is of use to both new gamers and to veteran gamers. It is just geared to showcasing the Planescape setting -which I think it does (as its main nemesises are a Rogue Modron and an Anarchist Death Slaadi-savant of Sorel & Ygorl, and each adventure displays a number of Planes (1st shows Sigil, Elysium, and Archeron -2nd shows other parts of Sigil, Carceri, and the Plane of Ash, and wait for the 3rd, but it will probably showcase parts of the Positive Quasielemental Planes, Arcadia, Mechanus, and maybe Pandemonium) -each case, I specifically chose sites that are uncommon in normal setting (i.e. not Hell or the Abyss) but part of Planescape (i.e. Mortuary, Fortune's Wheel, Crumbling Citadel, Armory, etc).
In addition, each one showcases several factions/guilds (i.e. 1st showcases the Sodkillers, the Minder's Guild, and the Ring Givers -and possibly others as we build -for instance the mercenary in Elysium could be a Cipher -while the second one deals with the Dustmen, Anarchists, and Doomguard -including their sects -wait for the third proposal).

Thus, each one introduces parts of the Campaign Setting, but together, the paint a much more holistic presentation. A DM and/or players that went through the entire Arc would have a pretty good footing in the setting (which is, after all the point of this exercise).

Plan -such a dirty word for PS modules. But seriously though, the PCs will have a very real choice in the end: do they side with the Slaad or do they fight Taixu.

If they do, it will be a very tough fight -but its supposed to be -its the climax of the whole adventure arc.

By that time, the PCs will be around 9th to 10th ECL. Look at the standard and rules and you will see that an appropriate end campaign boss fight would be an EL of 13. And you know what? -that is exactly what Taixu's CR is -funny how things work out, isn't it?

No offense taken -however, I hope you also don't take offense when I reiterate that you need to recheck your comments. Also, the module isn't specifically for new players -but is for players who are new to the Planescape setting.

Look, I am absolutely ok if we don't decide to use this/my proposal. If we all say, "nay, we want it to deal with the Blood War, or a Factol in one of the Mazes" than I am fine with that.

Nick,

Well I read your proposal, and I would like to make some comments, but I think it would be best if I let others respond first, as my views could be interpretted as being biased.

OF,

Well, you are close, but the adventure arc that I propose actually is linear (at least to the same degree that most standard published modules are). In the end, the climax is the same, but the resolution is up to the PCs (which is an essential part of many Planescape adventures -and games -and hence, should be something we introduce to initiates of PS).

(see my previous posts for citing of how eac part is incorporated)

Whoa -how come everyone assumes that all the smart and clever villians are LE (anyone ever hear of Grazz't?).

Sowing heretical, revolutionary and fictitious literature? -that's straight out of the Anarchist's Cookbook. Misinformation sowing Disorder -that's Chaos, not Law's Modus Operandi.

As for introducing the "normal" before the atypical -you have a point there -which is exactly why I wrote in the PCs first having an encounter with a Red Slaadi in the 1st adventure (as well as a number as a Modron in the Fortune's Wheel who acts like a probability gambler/scientist).

In the second adventure, the PCs are in turn introduced to a Green Slaadi and a group of "typical" rogue Modrons. Only at the very end of the second do they interact with Carnot (Taixu disguised as Japhy Gadar).

In the final adventure, the PCs will interact with a couple of Blue Slaadi and encounter "normal" non-rogue Modrons.

Thus, helping any new players not get confused (or at least any more confused than the rest of us, haha!)

3rd module (and official end of the Adventure Arc):

The PCs are contacted by a representative of the Fraternity of Order in Sigil.

This can occur in two different ways.

If the PCs are new, or are doing the adventure as a stand-alone module, then they are simply contacted and sent an invitation to meet with a Guvner for employment.

If they are the same PCs from the 2nd adventure, then they are contacted after the PCs are brought to court/trial for “trespassing” (and possibly slaying a Slaad and some Modrons) in the Armory. The trial ends with the PCs being quickly acquitted, but only after the PCs tell the Dabus of their deeds and the events of Carnot and the Apocalypse Engine in the Crumbling Citadel. Mabru (aka, The Harmonium) would indeed be concerned with the events (especially the existence of a partially functioning portal to the Plane of Ash), but the real instigator of the trial would be none other than Jamis, Factol of the Fraternity of Order.

Due to the seriousness of the events, Jamis needed to make sure that the PCs were telling the truth (call it a “truth-experiment”).

Once the PCs have demonstrated their veracity, they receive an invitation to a semi-secret library of the Guvner’s. Jamis has recently returned to Sigil as she promised, with a modest group of Faction members and have begun to establish a new safehouse and library for the Guvner’s.

She has become interested in the PCs and the events surrounding Carnot and the Apocalypse Engine as she was present when Carnot and Japhy Gadar arrived at the Fortress of Disciplined Enlightenment, and Carnot searched for the “full treatise” on the Fundamental Paradox of Equilibrium and Perpetual Movement.

Jamis became interested in the rogue Modron’s search, and so she continued to investigate the matter even after they left. Eventually, she discovered information regarding Carnot’s heretic trial and condemnation, and it revolving around a false Guvner treatise.

However, by this time, the pair was long gone from Mechanus. Jamis simply stored it away as information. But when she heard of the PC’s tale, she became very interested again –especially when she began to hypothesize concerning what kinds of Chaos the Modron might do (or perhaps whether or not it was actually on the cusp of discovering one of the sacred Axioms).

Either way, Jamis is highly interested in discovering what Carnot is up to, but cannot investigate personally since she and her small number of Guvner’s in Sigil are busy setting up the new safehouse and trying to keep a relatively low profile (rightly being concerned about retaliations from old enemies).
Thus, she hires the PCs (with the promised reward, not only being wealth, but possibly access to rare tomes and/or lore).

Her first lead is that after Carnot left Mechanus, it was next seen in Pandemonium. Drawing upon her magic and resources, she has located roughly were that was, and so sends the PCs off to see what they might find.

However, first the PCs will need to travel from Sigil to the Outlands –as the only “reliable” portal she knows of is in the plane’s gate-town, Bedlam. The PCs will travel to Bedlam (on the way, possibly having an encounter with a couple of Khaasta slave-raiders).

Once in Bedlam, the PCs will have to gain access to the portal that leads to Pandemonium (but not before having a run-in with some barmy Bleakers and a Shadow Fiend –or maybe a Whisper Demon, or Allip).

Once on the first layer, Pandesmos, the PCs can follow Jamis’ information to Taixu and Carnot’s old laboratory/base. Currently, it has been overrun by a small Howling Dragon (which actually might have been a strange “pet” of the Death Slaad). In addition, the Dragon has picked up several Derro minions. Diplomacy and/or bluffing will only get the PCs so far (as neither know where Carnot is, or what exactly they are up to –though the Howling Dragon, does know the true nature of Japhy Gadar as a Death Slaad), eventually they will have to battle the mad inhabitants.

Assuming the PCs are victorious, they discover that it seems that neither Carnot nor Taixu have been to this site in a while. They will find a significant amount of half-sane, coded writings and schematics.
Locked in cells, they will also discover a small number of literally “mad” scientists and theorists on perpetual motion and entropy. Most have long since abandoned any semblance of sanity –though one such “patient” seems uniquely sane (or mostly sane, that is). This prisoner, named Maxwell (who appears to be an incredible small Quasit in a Jar, with a Doorway filled with strange energy particles, which move at varying speeds) informs the PCs that Carnot was seeking a way to enforce entropic death into the Modron Energy Pool –in order to make it Lawful (seeing it currently as being in violation to Law).
Maxwell can tell them that all the inventors here had claimed to have created Perpetual Motion Machines, and were imprisoned until they successfully produced one –none succeeded. (Of course, Taixu merely enjoyed seeing the entropic demise of their minds, and the catabolic creation process.

It was this last part that led the two unlikey allies to seek after Ylem. Ylem has long been interested in "creation" and as such has studied deeply regarding positive energy, as it is a (if not THE) source of creation/life in the multiverse. Shortly before the Faction War, Ylem shared research with the Godsmen, who were interested in his theories (as they viewed them similar to their views on the Source, and the eternal reincarnation/births/creation of the Multiverse. Although the project was unfinished, it did yield some promising possibilities, though the Faction War halted its progress (with the Godsmen merging with the Signers and leaving Sigil for the Outlands).

This information can be gleamed in part by speaking with Maxwell, and/or by deciphering Carnot's code-codex (Taixu's anarchist scribblings on the walls remain all by incomprehensible, but since they are written in Slaad and speak of Revolution, and the Glorious Spread of Anarchy, they might give some clues; however, they are nearly illegible, and they contradict each other, writing over each other, and often stopping mid-thought).

There is, however, no clue as to Carnot's whereabouts.

However, with this information, the PCs can travel back to Sigil (perhaps battling some Windblades before getting back to Bedlam).

Upon returning to Sigil and showing Jamis their findings, she will study them, trying to break the Modron code and interpret their meanings. In the meantime, the Guvner Factol sends them to see Ylem about the "Genesis Infintum Project" as they seemed to have been very important to Carnot's study.

As they near Ylem's "residence", the PCs come upon the chaos of an attack by two Blue Slaadi and their "pet" Chaos Beast, who are overwhelming Ylem's guardians, and causing all kinds of disorder in his workshop. Hopefully assisting Ylem in driving off his attackers (which was a result of Taixu trying to cover up the potential foil to his plan), the PCs are then able to discuss such matters with Ylem.

The most likely outcome is that Ylem agrees to assist the PCs -as he is interested in seeing his research come to fruition (but lacks the fundage, since Zadara the Titan views it as being unprofitable). With the Guvner's backing, Ylem is able to continue his research. However, he tells the PCs that he needs them to retreive the Source Lattice (or as he calls it the Animus Absorbtion Actuator -or 3A)-supposedly a protype design of Ylem's that was built by the Godsmen. The Lattice is said to be able to hold and contain positive energy without losing its vigor, but channeling it back to rejuvenate it.

Accessing Jamis' resources, the PCs discover that the last known possessor of the Source Lattice was the now-Factol of the Mind's Eye. Tracking him down to the Beastlands (and avoiding becoming prey, or at least some creature's meal), the PCs can retrieve the Source Lattice.

Returning to Sigil, the PCs find that Ylem and Jamis have been hard at work. Though they have not fully deciphered Carnot's writings and schematics, they can tell that it intends to use the Apocalypse Engine to bring about some kind of destruction.
However, the two have come across a plan that Ylem believes should be able to counter/nullify the Apocalypse Engine. This entails building an antithesis of the Apocalypse Engine -something that Ylem refers to as a Genesis Engine. However in order to complete the machine, he needs the PCs to obtain its core component and power source.

Using the Source Lattice, or 3A, the PCs will have to travel to all Four Positive Quasielemental Planes, and gather a portion of the Plane's raw essence. Jamis and Ylem explain this is necessary since this is exactly what powers the Apocalypse Engine -raw negative quasielemental essence from their four planes, which the Sinkers and Dustmen had access to.

Thus, the PCs must go galavanting off to those 4 Planes -Radiance, Lightning, Mineral, and Steam (though not necessarily in any particular order). PCs are forewarned about the dangers of these Planes and assisted in prepping (perhaps one of Ylem's constructs acting as a "guide" to the areas "rich" enough for the 3A to do its work.

Such adventures might lead them to the Heart of Light (especially after getting involved in a fight between an Archon and an Efreeti) on the Plane of Radiance. Depending on how they resolve the conflict with the Efreet, they may find assistance in the Djinni city of Stormfront in the Plane of Lightning -having to evade and survive a swarm of lightning mephits. On the Plane of Steam/Mist, the PCs will have to travel to the Tower of Ice, where the PCs might get involved with a despute between alchemists or face a wild Marid. PCs won't probably reach the Tower of Lead in the Plane of Mineral, but they may have to deal with a gang of Xorns, and a psionist and a crysmal. (These encounters are just rough examples, there is a lot of wiggle room here).

While the PCs are off "charging" the 3A, Jamis will attempt to track down Carnot and Ylem will be busy crafting the rest of the Genesis Engine.

By the time they complete the mission in all 4 planes, the Genesis Engine is ready, and Jamis has discovered that Carnot and Taixu were recently seen in Arcadia -causing all kinds of trouble with the Harmonium.

Together with Jamis, the PCs will travel to Arcadia, to its second layer, to the Headquarters of the Hardheads on the 2nd layer. Jamis will speak with Faith -the current Factol -as the two are allies or sorts (and besides a minor assassination attempt by an Anarchist loyal to Taixu's cause, the events progress without conflict).

Through Faith, the PCs will learn that Carnot, Taixu, and a few other lackeys. They purpse seemed not only to cause trouble, but also to use one of the Faction's portals to Mechanus (the faction is sending many expeditions and regiments in an attempt to reclaim the third layer of Arcadia -and hence having serious armed conflict with the expansionistic Formians).

Though she did not know what it was at the time, Faith can confirm that Carnot's group had the Apocalypse Engine, since they used it to devastating effect upon a Hardhead Batallion right before using the Portal to Mechanus.

After further discussion between the two Factols. The PCs are accompanied by a group of Harmonium soldiers. Passing through the Portal into Mechanus, the PCs find themselves thrown into the middle of a war between Hardheads and Formians (with the latter having the upper hand).
Hopefully with the PCs help, they are victorious, or at least make an escape. They will then need to track down Carnot and the Engine -which won't be too hard do to the swath of destruction in its wake.

However, at this point, Jamis will part from the PCs, traveling to her Faction's headquarters to get aid and more information.

The PCs (and any surviving Hardheads) will eventually track down the rogue Modron an Death Slaadi, engaged in the midst of a battle between Formians and Modrons.

Here is the final showdown -as Taixu reveals his true form and nature, he then imbeds Carnot with the Seed of Renbuu, which transform Carnots -not back into a Tertian, but into a unique Nonaton -and although is still Rogue, is followed and recognized by inferior Modrons as a non-Rogue. This chaos causes a rippling effect of confusion and transfomations to rogue, and eventually a civil war among the Modrons (as Carnot commands all the surrounding Modrons to attack the violator of Law -which according to his intent, means attacking each other, -the whole time, each Modron death causing a drain upon the Modron Energy Pool -due to the Apocalypse Engine.

How the PCs affect this could very wildly -they could attempt to nullify the effects of the Apocalypse Engine with the Genesis Engine and/or attempt to defeat Carnot-Nonaton and/or Taixu. (Especially as Carnot's mind has changed with the transformation -he nows percieves Taixu and what how he attempted to manipulate him, and now as an entity of Chaos that needs to be purged. Ironically, Carnot still desires the destruction of the Energy Pool -thinking to set up a new Hierarchy of Modrons that follows all the Laws, and not flouts some -and so, views Taixu as the unwitting pawn of Law, and not the other way around).

Thus, the PCs will have to decide with whom the ally -or none at all. Do they fight both Taixu and Carnot's Rogue Revolution? Or do they aid the Rogue Revolution, but attempt to defeat the Slaad (or do they do the exact opposite)?

Depending on what they choose, the conclusion could be vastly different (is there now a new Modron Hierarchy -similar, but different (imagine like a new software update -or even new Modron forms). Does this revolution help or hinder their battles with the Formians? What is the final fate of the the two Engines -do they proximity to each other create a cataclysmic explosion -or fuse to create a new Modron Energy Pool for the Revolution?

What happens to the Seed of Renbuu? If Carnot is slain and the Seed expelled -does it come into contact with Taixu and create a new kind of Slaad (imagine Orange or Yellow or Indigo)?

Depending on how it all concludes, the PCs might have opportunities to continue the campaign with fighting against or for the Rogue Revolution. Or checking what kind of chaos a new color Slaad might get into.

Of course, in token of the Unity of Rings, for those PCs who complete all three modules, the adventure arc finale epilogue occurs when the PCs are called back to Sigil, by the proprietess of the Fortune's Wheel to celebrate and watch the Hatching of her Baby Wyrmlings -a grand party for a deserving band of Heros -or as the Ring Givers say -"It all comes full circle".

Indeed I have!

Personally, this sounds like the ideal we should be striving for - given the diversity and contrariness/unpredictability of PCs, I'm wary of making any assumptions about how adventures will turn out.

Well spoken, Moog. However you must admit that with the transition to 3/3.5e, the freedoms of 2e have been somewhat reduced in exchange for a more consistent system. So the numbers are there, like it or not. To be rid of them is to simply go back to 2e, as far I can fathom. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but quite different from the purpose of Planewalker. So building an adventure without taking into account the possibilities of +ECL characters and other 'imbalances' could be disasterous, especially at lower levels.

Dialexis - haven't had time to read part 3 yet, but I'll comment on it when I do.

I'm not sure I was advocating a return to 2e, even effectively, in my last post. I re-read it just to make sure, as people seem to be agreeing in principle with a point I wasn't actually trying to make.

I'll try and explain my point a different way, and while I do so, it should be taken into account that I don't actually own the 3.5e core books (Poor timing, essentially - I went to the gaming shop and bought the three 3.0 core books, and when I went back a week later, everything was 3.5, and I was like, WTH?);

It is my understanding that you are trying to create a low level (1 - 4, say) adventure arc to introduce the planescape setting to newcomers.

It's also my understanding that the intention is to use Pregens, because it allows the writers greater control, (we know the party mix, so we also have a fair idea of the working dynamic of the group,) and adds to the pick-up-and-playability of the finished product.

I take it from previous posts that a problem has been highlighted, because according to some, the "feel" of the setting is hampered when one is not able to play Tieflings and the like, because a level 1 Tiefling (frex) is the equivalent of a Level 2 Elf (frex) according to the ECL rules.

Looking at our Elf and Tiefling examples, there's not much in a Tiefling's reportoire of snackiness that makes it any better than an Elf in an unbalancing way. There's the 5 point elemental resistances, and that Darkness ability.

We have created an artificial gaming environment where we control most if not all of the variables - a linear style adventure arc, and pregenerated PCs. It is not out of the realms of possibility to engineer the artificial gaming environment so that the Tiefling's resistances are not needed until the rest of the (level adjust +0) party have hit level 2.

At this point, our Tiefer will still be level 1, assuming identical experience awards.

To balance it out completely, we simply require the Tiefer to "earn" his first level before he can progress. Effectively, the Tiefling starts play on -1000 exp. (Other +ECL races can be given similar treatment).

We're insisting they play with our characters, we might as well also insist they play by an adventure arc specific "house rule" too.

On the other hand, it might be a wang load easier to write the adventure with a load of green primes pregenned straight out of the PHB, and introduce Tiefers, Modrons and other such weirdness as NPCs, thus retaining the much vaunted "flavour".

This approach has benefits;

1) No ECL grief.

2) Easier on the DM (who's new to the setting, too) when the new and unusual races aren't doing new and unusual things (as players are likely to do) to other new and unusual things in new and unusual ways.

3) Much more fun when only the DM has anything approaching a solid grasp on what's going on, and why, leaving the players to ask questions and find out in the course of play rather than asking, OOC, "What does my planar character know about X, DM?"

As an aside, when I'm running a campaign, I normally insist that players play primers until they're at least comfortable and reasonably fluid with their planar cant. I find that's a good way of measuring whether they're likely to be able to play a planar with confidence, and minimum gameworld questions.

Agreed, Rhys. I still have no clue how to use ECL properly, but dang it I need to learn! The only 'Planewalker Official' changes should be those that aren't covered by WotC (or covered incorrectly, ala Manual of the Planes). I would also highly suggest proposing alternate statistics for certain planar creatures, especially Yugoloths and Slaadi. In other words, absolutely necessary for Planescape without adding too many house rules.

Estimated Character Level is a monster's number of Hit Dice, plus the Level Adjustment, plus his class levels. I know WotC presents it as being more complicated than that, but it really isn't. Basically the thing to remember about ECL is that under the current rules, it isn't a very good barometer of a creature's power. This is because the Level Adjustment system doesn't work, but I'm sure most of you have heard that rant before. Basically, if you want to find the approximate toughness of a monster, don't give ECL more than a passing glance, and instead add the class levels to the CR.

For player characters though, this gets much, much harder to do. Nearly all races with monstrous hit dice and a Level Adjustment are massively over-charged (a good example would be the Khaasta, although most high CR monsters are equally cheated). If you ignore the LA entirely though, you sometimes wind up with a balanced race, but usually end up with a monster that is simply too good (or sometimes still too bad). A lot of people use a system based on CR and that almost works, but it has it's own problems.

Now you know what ECL is, and knowing is half the battle. Of course, for an introductory adventure, we have to use the Rules As Written, so just ignore that last paragraph.

Hmm, that's an idea, but I'm not sure how appealing/helpful that really is. What I mean by that is that it still prevents Players from choosing Modrons, Githzerai, or anything that has a LA +2 (or higher, those these are rarer and nonstandard, even for Planescape). Also, apprentice levels -depending on the class- can really, really bite (imagine being a tielfing apprentice wizard -not only would you be weak as most 1st level mages are, but you wouldn't even have access to your measly supply of 1st level spells). For some classes, this is less of a penalty (for survivability and functionality -such as fighter). And with all the new base classes, we would/might need to detail the apprentice levels for approximately 18+ classes.

I think its a pretty good house rule, but I'd be leary of making it the crux behind the first module by Planewalker.

Instead, I'd just suggest to use Armoury99's adventure as the first Planewalker module. (He has done almost everything, and it is superb). The adventure is extremely flexible in terms of level-appropriateness.

I'd merely peg it as officially for a part of PCs from level 1 - 2. That way, you can still have it be a "first adventure" and still allow some LA+1 races (which are a good chunk of the Planescape PC races) without any adjustment at all.

And we could easily add a sidebar that might suggest your variant LA/apprentice level for DM's who absolutely want it to be ECL 1.

And we could also have a side-bar detailing how to increase the level of the adventure for DM's who wish to do so (and in Armoury99's proposal, this would be a piece of cake).

Nice. Tad'faddamfa's easy to develop since he doesn't appear in person, only hearsay - and I particularly like the real sweatshops. A thought - If we do go down this road, would it be better to keep Old Toadface as a slaad, to introduce the PCs to that race? We'd have to work up his personality more to make sure he wasn't just "a fiend by any other name" (I appreciate that point a lot).

Dialexis' Adventure Arc:

Having finally had the time to give Dialexis' campaign arc a good read, I have to say that on the whole I like it alot but I also agree in parts with others' critiques: Specifically, while I love the multiple groups and layers of hidden/disguised NPCs, its just too complicated for new players who may be just coping with the Planes themselves yet! Also, its epic tangled plotting and I'd like some more staright forward adventures to newbies first.

Clearly, he's writting a scenario for experienced D&Ders (just new to the planes), while I was trying to get relatively new D&Ders as well as PSers -although the vast majority of use for our scenarios will probably come from veterans already signed in at PW.com.

I especially like having a LAw/Chaos conflict rather than the traditional good v evil fight. L v C will also probably create in-party tensions and strained alleigences - and hopefully good rp opprotunities...

Personally, I'd prefer to go "the whole hog" with Dialexis' scenarios and have it as the equivalent of Hellbound (our first 'super-heroic adventure'), with a couple more low level adventures inbetween mine and his - to introduce players to the Factions, Races, NPCs involved in it. That way DMs could in theory play through all SIX (am I getting way ahead of myself here?) adventures for a complete campaign; from lost in the Hive to saving the modron race! (and what a way to bring them back against the formians, assuming the PCs succeed...)

I think my only other comment is that we'd have try and keep the PCs' options open for who exactly they're working for by the time the last installment of Taizu's plan comes round.

Here's an interesting bit.

The traditional LA system (as presented in the 3.5 Monster Manual) advocates allowing LA+X characters to take their place in the party as first level characters, something which I find great for an introductory adventure.

For example, a Drow (LA+2) would begin at first level with his companions, but simply advance slower.

In all honesty, LA+ characters can be underwhelming for a number of reasons, and their fun-loss tend to show up fast ("Hey, why does everybody else get to level up?")

So why not let them? If you've got new D+D players, it might be cool to throw them a bone - "You're a Bladeling, so you can fire knives out of your skin...", and for experienced players, it might be fun to be able to play something they'd never normally consider due to level adjustment qualifications.

They'd still have to stick with 1 HD though, for obvious reasons.

You can adjust the encounter levels up slightly to compensate for one or two planetouched/etc. PCs. They're still first level, so it's not like much will change - even the much-vaunted Rogue Modron* is still casting Color Spray or using a standard Greatsword. [They make really good casters at this level, but playing a Level-Adjusted Caster soon makes it's penalties clear. Don't worry.]

[*Sure, your player may not act like a 'real Rogue Modron'. But I think a lot of the reason Planescape has had such a steep introduction curve is because of the stigma attached to, well, 'Clueless Primes' [or Players]. Sure, they may not get it 'completely right', but the new DM can learn with the players - or the not-so-new DM can give them some tips. I think it'd be fun - give them the benefit of the doubt.]

I think your plan of 2 intros and then the Taixu plot seems workable. Time to strart thinking on what themes/intros that second plot should have, then...

PS: Unless someone else weighs in on the Old Toadface issue, I think I'll probably rework him as a Loth