Planescape, Anime Style

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Jack of tears's picture
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Planescape, Anime Style

I could have sworn this came up a couple years ago, but couldn't find the archived posts for it so thought I'd bring it up again.

Has anyone considered running Planescape with an anime system or theme? Considering the content of many anime - demons, magic, other planes/realities, the bizarre - one could easily see how the setting would mesh with the genre. On the other hand Planescape is so huge it is rarely designed to revolve around personal stories, which Anime places a great deal of focus on. (sure rpgs focus on personal stories, but in anime those stories tend to be more important than the setting or events surrounding the characters)

At any rate, pretty tired at the moment, but thought I'd throw the idea out there to see what others thought; if nothing else, generate a little more discussion.

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

Metamorphosis is designed to focus on the characters as much as the overarching plot. It's not running Planescape in the traditional sense but I think of myself as a DM sometimes. The intent of the comic, though, is to emphasize the characters' stories and put them within the Planescape framework. I'm not specifically taking an "anime" approach but I am hoping to put the characters first. Admittedly my storytelling approach and preferences have been influenced by character-driven ideas in anime storytelling

Game-systems, I've been toying with the idea of Planescape using Green Ronin's Mutants and Masterminds rules. Though it's not exactly an anime system like BESM, it's got a lot of good support for anime-style gaming. It also has at least one anime supplement (Mecha and Manga or something like that), so the developers are aware of the potential there.

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

I am still studying in a course of animation. I've stopped for a year and half because of the financial problem that's why my parents turned to get a payday advance for my studies but it is not enough. During my first year in college, we tackled already about it but we didn't applied it through hands on. I hope I could give you a straight answer but my knowledge is not enough though.

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

Can somebody explain to me how do you have an 'anime theme' in an RPG? Anime is a style of animation, the only reason it's considered a genre is the japanese culture influencing it. So what, have a japanese DM and...?

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

Anime stories tend to follow certain themes of characterization, story, thematic visuals, etc. Not to mention the way powers tend to work, demons tend to be depicted, social groups interact; people standing on the tops of the tallest buildings with the wind blowing through their androgynous hair; relationships between villains and heroes, and so forth. If you watch enough anime, or read enough manga, you'll pick up on the threads which weave through them all pretty quickly.

There is a very specific feel to an anime themed game, much as there is a feel to gothic games, survival games, medieval european games, urban fantasy games, and so on - they are a meta style under which any number of sub genres can exist. (anime horror, anime adventure, anime comedy/romance, survival horror, gritty survival, medieval horror, medieval fantasy, medieval faerie tale, medieval/political ... to name only a few)

Note: I'll give the spammer up there some credit for almost trying to tie her response into the thread, but I really wish we had a "report to moderator" button here.

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

""Can somebody explain to me how do you have an 'anime theme' in an RPG? Anime is a style of animation, the only reason it's considered a genre is the japanese culture influencing it. So what, have a japanese DM and...?""

Japanese anime and manga have a specific cultural and thematic style to it. It includes things such as:

--Flashy maneuvers and combat-oriented supernatural powers, such as ki blasts/balls and waves of energy released from the swing of a katana.

--One shot and recurring villains who eventually become the protagonist's allies. In many anime and manga, most of the progagonist's companions start out as antagonists. DragonBallZ is particularly known for this, as practically all of Goku's allies started out as either antagonists or rivals (even Bulma started out as an antagonist)

--Epic level campaigns, such as those seen in shonen (young male) anime and manga such as Inuyasha, DragonballZ, and Bleach.

--Monster raising is a huge theme, especially in manga and anime aimed at small children. monster companions tend to be a very common theme in shonen and shoujo (shoujo= young girls' anime) as well. A good example of this is Kirara, Sango's nekomata companion.

--The whole "Demon King's Army" style of monster plot/organization. The "Demon King's Army" style is common to most E. Asian folklores and mythologies, and basically depicts all monsters as a collective (that is not to say there isn't infighting), so you usually end up with a war or struggle with humans on one side and the monsters on the other.

It must be stressed that the Japanese words for monsters are multiple and have different meanings from western words.
"Monster" is the closest translation for most of the words, but still does not do them justice, since the word "monster" denotes "barbaric", "freak of nature", and "bogeyman".
The Japanese words are:

Mamono: Often used in the exact same way as "monster" is in the west, though the word is derogatory when used to refer to sentient creatures (much in the same way that "demihuman" is derogatory. You see, the "mono" in "Mamono" means "thing", a suffix that is not used for people, but rather for objects and animals. Many videogames and such use the term, anyway though. The derogatory nature of this word was actually played out slightly in the Japanese verson of Chrono Trigger, as the Mystics/Fiends referred to themselves as "Mazoku" *see below for meaning*, while most of the humans of 600 AD referred to them as "Mamono". However, the Mazoku themselves only referred to their domesticated animals as "Mamono". By 1000AD, very few humans use the term "Mamono", and all of the player characters refer to them by their proper name.)
Note that "Ma" is Japanese for "demon", and the syllable is often encorporated into character names and place names to give them a sinister feel (e.g. Mayuri the necromancer scientist from Bleach, Zosma the warlock in Saga Frontier, etc.) There isn't a sufficient english translation word for this since western folklore and monotheist religions lack demonic animals.

Mazoku: This refers specifically to sentient monsters/demons (note the 'ma' prefix here again) who form a collective (much like what is seen among devils in D&D, and to some extent among demons and yugoloths). The "zoku" suffix means "tribe", "clan", or "race". Generally it is used to refer to sentient monsters/demons as a collective, along with their domesticated animals. This term is almost purely used in "Demon King's Army" settings where the race forms of collective, martial society bent at dominating/conquering the humans, and often depicts them as a natural race rather than creatures of spiritual origin. Examples of this include Chrono Trigger, Wild Arms 1, and Voltron (I cannot recall if the bad guys were referred to as Mazoku in the Japanese version or not, but they follow the general rule/cliche for Mazoku) There is no sufficient english translation for this word.

Bakemono: This can be used as "monster" just like "mamono", but it usually denotes more spiritual or ghostly monsters, and can also refer speficially to ghosts and monsters born from the souls of wicked or sinful humans (or humans who were murdered)

Youkai: This can also be used as "monster" just like "mamono", but like "Bakemono", denotes more spiritual type creatures, though less ghostly than bakemono. Youkai is also used both in the east and the west to refer specifically to mythical creatures from Japanese folklore. There is no sufficient translation for this word.

Majin: The "jin" means "person". It refers specifically to sentient, humanoid demons. Though used similarly to "mazoku", it usually denotes a less collective and more individualist nature. The best translation for this word is "fiend".

Youma: Youma has two meanings: 1. ghost 2. alluring demon. (the "you" in the word, the same as seen in "youkai", can mean either "ghost" or "alluring".) I generally have seen it used as the latter definition, and usually such monsters/demons are very beautiful/handsome and refined. The Youma were translated to "Mystics" in Saga Frontier, and they are also the name of the angatonist monsters in the Sailor Moon anime.

Kaimono: The "kai" means "strange" (and is the same kanji/word used in "Youkai") I only know of it being used in reference to Godzilla, Mothra, and the other monsters of the movie series. It is the closest Japanese word equivalent to the western word "monster", and specifically denotes "freak of nature" (but animal, only)

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

Well that was informative. Thanks, Hyena.

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

It occurs to me. If you're looking for personal stories and heavy character focus in your Planescape, then Torment is a perfect example. The entire game is the personal story of the Nameless One, his allies, and their quests for identity. The plot exists because of Nameless and is driven by Nameless. It's not a cookie-cutter RPG where the world's being threatened and you are one of a million people that could join the army/take up the sacred sword/be born into the prophecy and save the world.

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

True, but the personal story is only one element of an Anime themed game - I'm also suggesting using the flavor and reoccurring tropes of Anime/Manga. There are some Anime rpgs which address these very well, but they are not set in Planescape - which is where I suggested combining the two.

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

Hyena: and yet, none of my favourite animes contain any of these things. That's clichés about anime, at best.

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

That's probably what Jack of Tears was interested in anyway. I mean, I've watched what, a dozen anime series and another half dozen movies - that may be not enough but I haven't seen much common in the way of "certain themes of characterization, story, thematic visuals, etc. Not to mention the way powers tend to work, demons tend to be depicted, social groups interact" between them.

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

I don't know what to tell you then, Schpeelah, since I can't imagine how you missed them. All I can say, I guess, is take a look at an anime rpg next time you're at a game shop - maybe that will give you some insight into what I was talking about; (though probably not the base BESM game, as the general attitude of that game is a bit silly - at least in the edition I have) or stop by an active anime forum and ask about the prevalent and recurring themes in anime.

>>That's probably what Jack of Tears was interested in anyway.<<

Some of it yes, some of it no. Mostly I was looking for people's creative ideas - usually we have no dearth of those around here.

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

There are some recurring themes present in more than a few anime, yes. But it's not anything specific to anime. These themes tend to occur in Japanese fiction of any sort, they're merely an expression of Japanese culture. So they aren't really themes of anime so much as they are qualities of Japanese culture.

You have to keep in mind, anime isn't a genre, it's a medium. It's impossible to generalize over the whole thing any more than it's possible to generalize over all French television, or all Mexican literature. For any claim you make about a theme present in anime, there will be any number of examples that either don't have it or subvert it entirely. But there are certain facets - the focus on togetherness, the importance of hierarchies, defensive violence being considered "good" while aggressive violence is considered "wrong" - that do show up often enough that it's worthwhile to point them out.

Here's a good article that goes into a few of the major themes present in a lot of shonen anime and manga, that also goes into the culture origin of such themes. http://io9.com/5490323/to-protect-and-kill-morality-in-action-manga

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

There are plenty of minor things as well.

For instance, in western comics/etc. the villainess/vixen is usually about equal in height to the main male protagonist (and sometimes very slightly taller due to high heels or platform shoes). In manga and anime, the villainess is always a bit taller than the male protagonist.

There are plenty of similarities between western and eastern comics, as well.

For instance, in manga the "compassionate" female character (often the lead) has very soft features (one of my "How to Draw Manga" books that's translated from Japanese instructs the reader to make certain in particular that the compassionate girl's thighs are very soft rather than muscular) Whereas the cruel and more hard-hearted female characters in both western and eastern comics have more chisled bodies, more prominent bone structure, and in particular, sharper facial features (okay, that last part is mostly a western comics thing, but mainly because sharp facial features are considered incredibly unsexy in Japan. The "harsh facial features" rule definitely applies to male villains in anime and manga however, as they tend to have triangle-shaped eyes *a result of sloping eyebrows* and more prominent/visible cheekbones, particularly under the eyes. These things are, again, not depicted on female villains because IRL visible cheekbones and sharp jaws are generally a result of advanced age in E. Asian women.)

Both western and eastern comics usually make the antagonist taller and more muscular/built than the protagonist.

Another prominent theme in both is to make both the protagonist and the antagonist of the same gender. This comes from the whole "cautionary tale" and "moral story" types of storytelling where the protagonist embodies all that is acceptable in society or religion and is the role model of how people should behave, whereas the antagonist is the polar opposite.
In some aspects this is more pronounced in anime and manga, as while the goody-type protagonists (as opposed to the rebellious ones and antiheroes) tend to be polite, the antagonist is rude and often uses profanity even in a casual manner.

Likewise, the villainesses in both western and eastern comics usually tend to be far sexier and possess bigger breasts than the female protagonist, are less conservatively dressed, and are also usually more 'loose' or bigger 'teases'. This is largely because the female villainess represents the temptation of evil, as well as (like with the male villain) the antithesis to acceptable behavior in women.

The "same gender" thing is also used prominently in storytelling because having a hero and villain of opposing genders is highly distracting to the overall story-- people will end up viewing the struggle/rivalry as one character (the male) being a bully, take the struggle less seriously (e.g. the succubus is a chick, so somehow her crimes against the male protagonist aren't as bad, or because she's a woman, she's not that great a threat) or view the struggle as sexual in nature.

There are prominent national/ethnic cliches as well-- Chinese characters are always adept martial artists, Americans are almost always incredibly arrogant, the French are the only group even more arrogant than Americans, Russians are often militaristic, sneaky, and/or deceitful (holdover from the Cold War), and African/black characters usually have sob backstories (I think General Black from DragonBall is one of the few exceptions to that last rule)

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

Hyena, first the visual side of anime is total irrelevant offtopic (at ltest, the part you are talking about).
Second, could you provide the list of anime you are basing this on? Even an incomplete one will do.

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""Second, could you provide the list of anime you are basing this on? Even an incomplete one will do.""

I'm basing it partially on the guidelines in many of the Graphic-Sha "How to Draw Anime and Manga" books (which are translated from Japanese).
The 'Soft legs on the compassionate girl' is from one of them, and the book "Bishoujo from Around the World" instrusts the reader to give African characters narrow (but not upturned) eyes to reflect the harshness of their environment and life.

As for the part about the nationalities, I was also basing that on videogames and a manga-style travelogue I once saw in Kinukuniya (it was about Africa, though, and it had a British, American, then French woman mocking the politeness of Middleastern women. Or maybe minus the French woman. I actually don't recall where I originally got the "French are the only nationality more arrogant than Americans, but I definitely know it was from somewhere.)
The French are arrogant thing is actually as much a Japanese cultural thing as it is a stereotype of the French.
Prettymuch any manga, anime, and videogame I've encountered, the really pretty girls and guys are always unbelievably vain.
The Japanese for some reason associate the French with beauty and aesthetics, so of course they'll get stereotyped as unbelievably arrogant.

I can't remember where all I got the thing about Russians.

For Africans/blacks, examples include Barrett from FF7, Halid from Romancing Saga 3 (really good SNES game that never hit North American shores, but there is a fan translation patch for it online), and Paninya from Full Metal Alchemist.
The only exceptions to this rule I can think of off my head are General Black from Dragonball and James from Blood+.
Note that I'm only counting major characters here and not fodder characters.
The black characters in Bleach might also be an exception-- I don't get the opportunity to watch that show very much, plus Orihime/Inoue repels me with her ditzyness.

""first the visual side of anime is total irrelevant offtopic""
Off topic how? The visuals, particularly when pertaining to character design, are a significant part of the style, particularly due to the symbolism of said style (which sadly many American imitators tend to ignore-- for instance by giving all of the adult female characters slanted/upturned eyes since that's seen as beautiful here, despite that in anime, it signifies vanity)

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

Quote:
"How to Draw Anime and Manga" books (...)videogames and a manga-style travelogue...
That... seems to explain a lot...

Quote:
Prettymuch any manga, anime, and videogame I've encountered
That's the part I waned a list of.

The visual side is off-topic because it's a thread about bringing anime into your RPG. Surely you aren't suggesting that the DM describing male villans having "triangular eyes and prominent cheekbones" and female ones with large boobs is a part of that.

Edit: For the record:
Anime I've watched: Dragonball Z, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Serial Experiments Lain*, Elfen Lied, Fullmetal Alchemist, Ghost in the Shell (both seasons), Hellsing (both), Outlaw Star, Ranma ½ (some), Silent Möbius, Princess Resurrection (some), Devil May Cry The Animated Series (what? I'm a fan of the games)

Anime I've been exposed to by living with someone who watches them: Duel Masters, Naruto

Movies: Grave Of The Fireflies, Ghost In The Shell (all), Neon Genesis Evangelion, just got My Neighbour Totoro

Manga: Princess Resurrection, Parasyte*, Highschool of the Dead

*my BIG recommendations on this one, it's good

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Re: Planescape, Anime Style

Surely you aren't suggesting that the DM describing male villans having "triangular eyes and prominent cheekbones" and female ones with large boobs is a part of that.
Actually, I was.

"""Prettymuch any manga, anime, and videogame I've encountered""
""That's the part I waned a list of. ""
Lemee see, anime:
--prettymuch anything on Cartoon Network other than Pilot Canidate and Super Milk Chan
--Project A-Ko
--DBZ
--Elfen Lied
--Akira

Manga:
Akira, Inuyasha, DB/DBZ, FMA, Trigun Maximum, mainly...
I can't remember what it's called, but I also read a few chapters of that one with the two guys and two chicks (one of the guys is your typical shounen hero type while the other, his elder brother, is a long black-haired prettyboy, and the two females would always become ridiculously scantily-clad whenever they donned their combat outfits; it was in Shonen Jump that I saw it, about 12 and 10 years ago.)

I honestly cannot remember if I've read or seen anything more than that.

As for videogames, that is going to be a looong list, as I've been a gamer ever since the NES era, though I never got any consoles beyond the PSX generation (other than the Nintendo DS), and I have read and played the Japanese versions of several of the SNES rpgs.
And yes, I've played just about every SNES Jrpg except for Romancing Sagas 1-2, and Dragon Quest/Warrior 5 and 6.

"""How to Draw Anime and Manga" books (...)videogames and a manga-style travelogue...
That... seems to explain a lot.""

How so, on the first one? The "How to Draw Anime and Manga" books I get are limited almost entirely to Graphic-Sha (although my newer books don't have graphic-sha mentioned anywhere), which are all translated from Japanese (in other words, they were originally Japanese "How to Draw Manga" books, and not those cheesy-ass American ones that usually don't know what the hell they're doing, such as making a serious, cold-hearted male character look all doe-eyed and cutesie, or giving all the girls upturned eyes like I mentioned before)

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