The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

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Kobold Avenger's picture
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The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

So how would you fit all of the planes introduced later on in D&D that were never officially part of PS canon?

The ones I'm referring to is the Plane of Shadow (aka Shadowfell) as a full-fledged plane, the Plane of Dreams (aka Dal Quor or the Region of Dreams), the Plane of Faerie (aka Feywild), the Plane of Mirrors, the Far Realm and the other planes first mentioned in 3e MotP, and maybe expanded a bit in later products, editions and campaign settings.

Plane of Shadows / Shadowfell
First of the Plane of Shadows, I think that it simply being a demiplane doesn't do it any justice. I know previous sources have said it was where the Positive and Negative Energy Planes met, back when it was only a demiplane. But personally I feel that the Plane of Shadow being some underbelly to the rest of the planes of the multiverse, that those with the right knowledge can draw their powers upon as being an appealing one. Maybe the Plane of Shadow was once a demiplane, but it soon grew to be a backdoor to the rest of the multiverse. To some places it could be an underworld where parts of the soul might linger, or it could be the void between cosmologies that they often suggested back in 3e (an idea I never really liked) or it could be the leftovers of creation.

Plane of Faerie / Feywild
Let's face it, faeries before 3e mostly sucked, they were based off the idea of Disney Faeries (with Ravenloft and Birthright being the exceptions) and generally weren't like their darker mythological counterparts. Thus they were sort of an afterthought through out the time in 2e. In 3e they started to resemble their darker mythological counterparts more. So I do like the idea that there is a plane of the Fey, with either the seelie and unseelie courts, or 4e's courts of the seasons with seelie and unseelie only being a mortal label or state of mind. Of course the question is where does it all fit in if it's a full-fledged plane.

Plane of Mirrors
It was actually referred to back in Tales of the Infinite Staircase. But the Plane of Mirrors does suffer from problems of being practical with it's mirror clones that are created the moment anyone enters it's planes. I'd certainly like to explore more with the Kameral and the Nerra, and I did before. And it can certainly be a more interesting place beyond a hallway with mirrors to other places.

Far Realm
I don't think much needs to be expanded upon about the Far Realm. Though what is it, is it the outside of existence or another multiverse that's toxic to the other one.

Plane/Region of Dreams / Dal Quor
This is a plane that everyone visits, but possibly only a few can actually enter. I feel it should be a plane separate from that of the Ethereal. Though is it a "real" plane in the ways that others are. Also the implications of what happens when you include the Quori a race of beings that permeates the plane, but generally only seems to have been felt around one prime world. The current race of Quori all being subjects of the mysterious Dreamer of the Dark, and possibly creations of it's dreams in it's eons of nightmares. And while we're on the subject of the Quori, what about the Kalashtar and how would they fit into the planes as a whole?

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

I just treat Shadow like a very large demiplane-- as it was in 2x. Though Shadow is the closest thing to a full-fledged plane.

Plane of Mirrors
I addressed this in the Inner Planes Resource Index. Going by very simple logic of how the plane works, it is clearly an ethereal demiplane just like Shadow.

Plane of Faerie / Feywild
I adhere to the "Wandering Fey Court" outer demiplane/divine realm from 2E Planescape.

Let's face it, faeries before 3e mostly sucked, they were based off the idea of Disney Faeries (with Ravenloft and Birthright being the exceptions) and generally weren't like their darker mythological counterparts. Thus they were sort of an afterthought through out the time in 2e.
Not true. 2E had Redcaps, Banshees, Gremlins, Quicklings, petty faeries (which are based off of Celtic neopaganism), and the less malevolent Sirines. (it's debatable whether or not the wendigo should be considered a 'fey' since in the original folklore, they, the skookum, and many other "wildmen" and "hags" were the result of breaking the taboo against cannibalism, which prettymuch existed across North America. Though it manifested as a cultural syndrome, it probably has its roots in truth-- serial killers and some folks suffering from non-senile dementia to be precise. The Amerindian folklore states that even sucking the blood from one's own wound and consuming it results in such a transformation. There are of course variations to the cannibal monster theme as well. In some cases, the transformation is mostly psychological-- the cannibal goes insane, craving flesh, and takes on a more savage, animalistic appearance to match *I think the original wildmen were based off of the idea of "bear men" rather than "ape men"*. In other versions, the cannibal does indeed become a supernatural being. The wendigo myth-- particularly wendigo possession-- appears to have been used to explain the symptoms of hypothermia and frostbite, much like most cultures use evil spirit possession to explain febrile delirium.)
Yeah, most of the faeries still aren't *that* dark, but you can blame that largely on folklore-- In modern and renaissance folklore, the vast majority of fey make people get lost in the woods/mines or interfere with their daily lives such as ruining crops, tying shoelaces together, tangling hair, spoiling milk/food, and causing bad luck. Yeah, they were more malicious in their original mythological roots, but they've been pansy-fied ever since the Middleages when the really bad stuff (such as psychiatric disorders, mysterious slayings, kidnappings, infertility, failed crops, sick animals, and brutal slayings) was attributed to demons, lycanthropes, witches/Jews *prettymuch the same thing back then in most Europeans' minds*, or even feral children instead of faeries.
Whereas in pre-Christian times, yeah, faeries were pretty damn dark since they were instead used to explain all the things people didn't yet understand.

Plane/Region of Dreams / Dal Quor
It's the Dreamscape from 2E (an Ethereal demiplane)

And while we're on the subject of the Quori, what about the Kalashtar and how would they fit into the planes as a whole?
The Quori probably wouldn't need the Inspired outside of Eberron. They surely have a huge presence on the Demiplane of Dread, as well as Eberron.
I brought this subject up before (I think it's on the 4th page now) and the consensus was basically that the Quori have "just discovered" Sigil, the Deep Ethereal, and prime worlds other than Eberron. The true goal with the Inspired in a Planescape sense, is most likely to 'stabilize' the Dreamscape so that it is permanent rather than something whose landscapes exist only temporarily. It's also likely that the Dal Quor have a dominant presence in the Nightmare Lands (another Ethereal demiplane), possibly even originating from there.
Anyhow, there are also updated rules for the Dreamscape (as per Guide to the Ethereal) in Heroes of Horror.

Maybe the Plane of Shadow was once a demiplane, but it soon grew to be a backdoor to the rest of the multiverse.
I disagree. The Plane of Shadow cannot be a "doorway to the rest of the multiverse" because it's an Inner transient plane, meaning it is NOT coterminous with the Outer Planes or Astral (unless you want to go with 3E's cosmology where the Astral is coterminous with all planes, and the border ethereal is demoted to merely being a place you go to battle ethereal creatures)
Yes, the Plane of Shadow may simply be the Demiplane of Shadow as a fully fledged plane, since in 2x the Demiplane of Shadow was already one of if not THE largest demiplane in the Ethereal.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

I know this is far different than the norm and thus, is mostly unusable to others but just in case it helps to trigger some ideas or discussion, here is how I placed a few things:

-Shadow - I replaced the traditional "border ethereal" and placed shadow here as I felt it was a "shadowy" copy of the main world/Prime

-I created a "border astral" too which was a two-dimesional plane where the Prime and the Astral (thought) touched. When mortals dreamt, it would create 3-dimensional bubbles in this plane with each bubble holding a dreamer's "dreamscape". The bubble would burst when the dream awakens

-For the Outer Planes I created three axes and placed a total of 27 planes on them. So I had to create 10 new planes. I won't go into all the details but I split up Arborea into two planes: one for Olympus and one for the elfin/fey pantheon (and other Trickster gods)

-I am kind of learning toward Mirrors being a demiplane; but I recently read Tales from the Infinite Staircase and they had an interesting race that had lived near the Spire and retreated into a sort of demiplane of mirrors.
It also make me think of connections of the rilmani with mirrors: mirrors balance whatever is placed in front of them; the rilmani sort of have an inverted mirror relationship to the Spire (where everyone else gets weaker, they get stronger)
This in turn made me think of the early 1e (and I think 2e) concept of a mirrored neutral plane where they had originally placed the Central American pantheon. They did away with the idea; but with the thoughts above, it did make me wonder if there should be a separate parallel mirrored version of the Outlands in which the rilmani "really" live (they just visit our Outlands to restore the balance).
I haven't done anything with this yet but it tickled my fancy

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

I just wrote a lengthy summary on Faerie in D&D here. In short, even in 2nd edition there were a number of different planes of Faerie, some of them created by the same person (Carl Sargent) who created idea of the Unseelie and Seelie Courts in the Outer Planes. These lesser planes, the Fading Lands coexistent with the Material plane, aren't the realms of the fey gods, but some of them are realms ruled by lesser fey.

The best treatment of Faerie in 2nd edition was in the Birthright setting, where the Shadow World contained both seelie and unseelie courts of elflike sidhe. It wasn't Disney, and it didn't suck, and because Birthright was part of the Planescape multiverse, it was too.

But yeah, the 4th edition Feywild is one of the best things about the 4e cosmology. It's very cool, I like it better than Sargent's deep sylvan lands and Court of Rings, and the fey gods can still have separate outer planar realms.

The Shadowfell is cool, too, and the Shadowdark is cooler. I don't like the 4e idea that all souls pass through there on the way to their afterlives, but it's still a very cool plane.

The Plane of Mirrors is awesome. Because it's accessible from the Spire, though (I'm assuming it's the same as the place described in Tales of the Infinite Staircase), where most planar portals won't work, I don't think it can be an Ethereal demiplane. It's something else.

The Plane of Dreams, yeah, it can be in the ethereal curtains as A Guide to the Ethereal Plane described, though I think the Outer Planes have their own hidden dream realms.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

Hyena of Ice wrote:
Plane/Region of Dreams / Dal Quor It's the Dreamscape from 2E (an Ethereal demiplane)

And while we're on the subject of the Quori, what about the Kalashtar and how would they fit into the planes as a whole?
The Quori probably wouldn't need the Inspired outside of Eberron. They surely have a huge presence on the Demiplane of Dread, as well as Eberron.
I brought this subject up before (I think it's on the 4th page now) and the consensus was basically that the Quori have "just discovered" Sigil, the Deep Ethereal, and prime worlds other than Eberron. The true goal with the Inspired in a Planescape sense, is most likely to 'stabilize' the Dreamscape so that it is permanent rather than something whose landscapes exist only temporarily. It's also likely that the Dal Quor have a dominant presence in the Nightmare Lands (another Ethereal demiplane), possibly even originating from there.


Thinking into how the Kalashtar can be out there, maybe a couple of the renegade Quori fled to human hosts on the planes and other worlds rather than just the Humans Monks who lived in Adar. It may have ironically been how the other Quori "discovered" Sigil and other places.

It may be something to work with for them, since they're a harder integrate outside of Eberron compared to the other new PC races from that setting, with Changelings being easy enough with their being Doppelgangers everywhere, Shifters being on the Beastlands or wherever there are Lycanthropes, and Warforged simply being made anywhere there was good knowledge of making advanced constructs. Kalashtar are just the tough ones to fit in.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

ripvanwormer wrote:
I just wrote a lengthy summary on Faerie in D&D here. In short, even in 2nd edition there were a number of different planes of Faerie, some of them created by the same person (Carl Sargent) who created idea of the Unseelie and Seelie Courts in the Outer Planes. These lesser planes, the Fading Lands coexistent with the Material plane, aren't the realms of the fey gods, but some of them are realms ruled by lesser fey.

The best treatment of Faerie in 2nd edition was in the Birthright setting, where the Shadow World contained both seelie and unseelie courts of elflike sidhe. It wasn't Disney, and it didn't suck, and because Birthright was part of the Planescape multiverse, it was too.

But yeah, the 4th edition Feywild is one of the best things about the 4e cosmology. It's very cool, I like it better than Sargent's deep sylvan lands and Court of Rings, and the fey gods can still have separate outer planar realms.


With multiple realms Faerie could be a plane that's not a plane. As a full-fledged plane, I guess it definitely would be a transitive plane. As for Archfey much like the ones described in a few 4e things (and mainly DDI material I think) they seem to be more like Abyssal Lords, and not actual deities. It seems to be a recurring theme with the Fey, the concepts of nature, but a few of them certainly have more Human concepts they draw from.

I think that in the past when there was a Law/Chaos War, as mentioned in the other thread, they probably were an existing race out there.

As for the Sidhe, I don't think they were ever statted anywhere in D&D though I may be completely wrong. Anyways I'd make them the 4e Eladrin PC race, to keep them separate from the CG Outsiders the Eladrin, to avoid the confusion caused by making High Elves into another race named after IP that WotC had. Even though I like how Paizo side-stepped that issue and simply named the CG Outsiders Azata (Eladrin were product identity, but Ghaele and Bralani weren't), and made the Lillendi one of them.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

I think Paizo's word, azata, is the best solution in the fourth edition era when so many people associate the word "eladrin" with a race of sidhe-like fey.

There were a couple of versions of sidhe in past editions. In the Celts Campaign Sourcebook, they were essentially elves, statistically, though more wild, tricky, and closely based on Celtic myth fluff-wise. In the OD&D accessory Tall Tales of the Wee Folk, sidhe were presented as a PC race, essentially elflike (though sometimes looking more humanlike or dwarflike), and hailing from an otherworldly faerie realm.

Blood Spawn: Creatures of Light and Shadow for the Birthright campaign remains one of the best treatments of Faerie in D&D; it was a free PDF on the WotC website forever, and it's still probably easily findable online. The sidhe-like beings in that book are simply called unseelie faeries and seelie faeries. Unseelie faeries were divided between "living evil faeries" and "undead faeries."

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

Shadar-Kai would probably fit into the darker faerie concept. They were certainly fey back in 3e, though it was retconned to them being former Humans in the edition after. Still I think there is room for the Shadar-Kai, Dark Ones and Drow (I actually like the change that Elves and Gnomes are also Fey) all existing together as different types of Dark Faeries.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

A discussion I've been waiting for for a long time.

Shadowfell & feywild: I like this. If I used it in a game, it would be like Palomies's, a part of the border ethereal with a negative energy twist is Shadowfell and a part of it with a + twist would be Feywild.. but I don't think dead people pass through shadowfell either. In this vein:
Shadowfell: Negative energy reflection of the world. This explains why shadow creatures are undead. Populated by spectral/ethereal undead, shadow creatures, evil fey and a few evil nature spirits. There are certain areas where the barrier between shadowfell and prime are thin, and leaks or tears exist. passages from one to the other is possible, via portals or even natural means. Also, there are areas within the shadow where it is easier to pass to ethereal. However, making a passage through shadow to ethereal usually ends up taking travelers to the vicinity of negative energy plane. (hopefully not to the negative energy plane itself). Travel between different prime worlds are possible, but are long and dangerous. Empty distances between populated worlds take the shape of virtually infinite, shadowy marshes. I wouldn't allow travel from shadowfell to outer planes, and I wouldn't allow shadowfell to exist in its normal sense in the outer planes. Certain sites and realms of Outer planes may have a shadow reflection, but it is always deliberately created by their rulers (such as the realm of an evil deity concerned wth death, undead, or darkness), and does not allow passage between different shadow pockets within the plane.
Feywild: This is the positive energy reflection of the prime world, populated by sylvan creatures, magical beasts, fey and nature spirits. It is not very welcoming to the unprepared traveler, and even those who are stunned by its beauty and liveliness, or fooled by the enigmatic and chaotic creatures living there. Wild Hunt originates from this plane. All restriction to inter planetary travel that apply to shadow apply. Moving from a Feywild to ethereal brings travelers closer to positive energy. Empty space between planets take the shape of vast oceans, though travel is deterred by storms, pirates and the occasional sea fey. Some outer planes such as Arborea have access to Feywild in some realms.

Plane of Mirrors: I love the concept, but I have a hard time visualising it. The "plane of mirrors", and the "mirror-multiverse" are two separate things. I like the idea of Rilmani using a "plane of mirrors" to travel between the real multiverse and the "mirror-verse". But this still doesn't answer just what is the plane of mirrors. Better than a hallway of mirrors, I propose we visualise it as an still, silvery lake; characters walk or fly over this lake and seemingly the only illumination is from their reflection on the lake. When they contact the lake, they can pass through the small ripple they create to the other side of the lake. This is where they meet their anti-person. At this point, if a character uses a spell or portal to leave the plane of mirrors, he will find himself in the mirror multiverse. This said, I don't wnt to completely ditch the idea of a hallway of mirrors and a race such as Nerra. I would say they are natives of the plane of mirrors, existing between the real and mirror-verses. They build huge fortresses or cities, on or above the lake, where mirrors dominate all rooms and hallways. These places, easier to reach by magic, are where the planewalkers usually come, and as such, they mistakenly thought that the entire plane of mirrors is like this. If I used the Plane of Mirrors in the way I described it here, I would rule that it is only accessable from the base of the spire. Only other method to reach the plane is to use a mirror to get into a Nerra enclave, fight your own reflections (which the Nerra use as guardians), fight your way off the place, and finally tou are out on the silver lake. I would expect Rilmani to roam the plane searching for disturbances. (The more I wrote about this, the more I am inspired. I stop now, but I would love to discuss this further.)

Plane/Region of Dreams: Another plane I love, but also hardest to fit. If its a region, I see astral plane as the better place. I would prefer people in all planes to be able to dream/create dreamscapes. This is easier to implement in a cosmology where the astral surrounds all planes. As an astral region, I see it as instantly appearing and disappearing bubbles of mental energy, scattered randomly around a plane wth sufficient dreamers on the astral. This is because we know that dreams last mere seconds. But if you can detect the mental energy collection in the astral before it forms an astral bubble, it is possible to enter the bubble, live the dream, and leave before it explodes (the dreamer awakens). Exploding dream bubbles leave an astral residue, useful for one spell or other. Question is, do dreamers create silver cords to move inside the dreamscape? Well my region of dream in astral plane is like this; but honestly, I would prefer to see it as a separate plane with connections to astral and ethereal. Perhaps the region between astral and ethereal, if such a thing were possible?

Far Realm: An infinite number of theories can be made for this plane, including asking if there is a single far realm, or a number of different planes/multiverses that completely defy "normal" logic? Since all answers are correct and incorrect, I don't see use in discussing it.

I'll also add the fabled Plane of Time to the list. Just what and where is it? How does one go there? How does is it work?

and what about the legendary Ordial Plane? I mean, we know where it is supposed to be, but does it even exist?

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

Plane/Region of Dreams: Another plane I love, but also hardest to fit. If its a region, I see astral plane as the better place. I would prefer people in all planes to be able to dream/create dreamscapes.

Not appropriate for the Astral, since the Ethereal is the plane of creation and potential. Astral is the plane of memory and afterthought, thus where dreams already dreamt end up.

Far Realm: An infinite number of theories can be made for this plane, including asking if there is a single far realm, or a number of different planes/multiverses that completely defy "normal" logic? Since all answers are correct and incorrect, I don't see use in discussing it.

I like the materials from the Violet Dawn setting (by Inner Circle) so much that, in order to encorporate some of the monsters (particularly the Luminaries and Voidspawn) into Planescape/mainstream D&D cosmology, I would have to say that there's more than one plane beyond the Amoebic Sea (the typified/Flagship Far Realm region/landscape/dimension/etc.) , and that the Far Realm makes up an entire alien multiverse.

I'll also add the fabled Plane of Time to the list. Just what and where is it? How does one go there? How does is it work?
Time is an Ethereal Demiplane. I'd have to look at Guide to the Ethereal to see exactly what it is, as I do not recall off-hand.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

The second edition sourcebook Chronomancer defined the plane of time (Temporal Prime) as a "pseudo-reality" present on every plane of existence. There may be a demiplane of time as well.

There was a thread on the wotc boards on new Far Realm layers. I should post some of the ones I came up with here.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

Evil wrote:
Plane of Mirrors: ...the idea of Rilmani using a "plane of mirrors" to travel between the real multiverse and the "mirror-verse". ...[upon crossing over, you] fight your own reflections (which the Nerra use as guardians)
Both of these are excellent ideas (IMO) which I wish I had thought of.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

There may be a demiplane of time as well.

There is. It's one of the demiplanes in Guide to the Ethereal.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

I know it's mentioned there (it's also in the 1st edition Monster Manual II, Manual of the Planes and Tales of the Outer Planes). But Chronomancer strongly stated that all mentions of a "Demiplane of Time" actually referred to Temporal Prime.

From page 4:

Quote:
While it is conceivable that an outsider might conceive of the dimension of Temporal Prime as some kind of demiplane, it is in fact nothing of the sort. The phrase "demiplane of Time" is simply a misnomer for something that is difficult for any but a chronomancer to fully comprehend. It's understandable that outsiders, trying to fit Temporal Prime into their own necessarily limited theories of how the universe is constructed, would make this mistake.

I'm saying it's possible that there's both a demiplane and a "pseudo-reality" of that name, but it's also possible they're the same thing, and it's not a true demiplane at all (regardless of what A Guide to the Ethereal Plane says).

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

Here's the Far Realm layers thread on the WotC message boards.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

Since Faeries can be a lot of things, what do you think they are in the scheme of concepts and themes given form and the ancient history of the multiverse? And how does their plane fit into it, as a full-fledged plane, demiplane or whatever.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

Kobold Avenger wrote:
Since Faeries can be a lot of things, what do you think they are in the scheme of concepts and themes given form and the ancient history of the multiverse? And how does their plane fit into it, as a full-fledged plane, demiplane or whatever.

1. Personifications of nature/living things. This is the most obvious one, and totally fits for creatures like nymphs, treants, satyrs, petal faeries, actaeons, and so on. In this case they're really sort of "elementals of the material plane," and it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to be from a plane other than the Material Plane. However, Faerie need not be their plane of origin; it can be the plane they retreat to as the wild force of Nature is conquered and tamed. This works especially well in a campaign where Nature and Technology/Agriculture/Urbanization are at odds. So the fey slowly retreat into the Undying Lands, leaving behind the worlds where they first formed when life first took hold in the earliest days. Faraenyl in Beyond Counteless Doorways is very much a "retreat" plane rather than an "origin" plane (and it's a demiplane, since it's artificial and finite).

2. They're the original natives of Pandemonium. See this article on A Tiefling's Exultation. This option is totally out of left field, of course, but it makes them a planar race who only adapted to the mortal world and nature, rather than forming from it. In this scenario, Elfland is a demiplane that Corellon Larethian created in which to imprison his unrepentant Pandemonic kin (Lolth's exile came later). Although, note that while this article uses old faerie myths to flesh out the elves, and has them originally ruled by the Queen of Air and Darkness, the Seelie Court is separate and apparently originally unrelated to the elven Pandemonians. So they must come from somewhere else, although it wouldn't take much work to create a variant myth where elves and fey had a common origin in Pandemonium.

3. The fourth edition method. From the FR wiki: "The Feywild, also known as the plane of Faerie, was created by the Primordials, beings of power comparable with the gods. Finding some things of the Prime too "bright" or too "dark," the Primordials split the Prime into three nearly identical worlds: the Plane of Shadow and the Feywild." So the fey are essentially the positive-energy-infused ("bright") versions of humans, dwarves, giants, and other "natural" races, while the shadow races like dark ones are negatively-infused versions of them. And Faerie and the Plane of Shadow are "parallel planes," which is similar to 3rd edition's transitive planes.

4. They're descendants of the leShay. The leShay are elflike beings from a previous, now-destroyed multiverse. They became the original fey of this multiverse, one of the "creator races" as the Forgotten Realms campaign calls them. They either created or gave birth to all the other races of fey. The Plane of Faerie could be where they first arrived on when they came to this cycle of existence, in which case it could be a planet or crystal sphere (like Faeriespace in Spelljammer's Crystal Spheres accessory). Or it could be a demiplane they created to be their "home base." It could even be an elemental plane, something like a Plane of Wood, which the leShay conquered and molded into their own image. In this scenario, the fey aren't really personifications of anything, innately. They're just descendants or creations of an ancient race. It's possible that the leShay enslaved various nature spirits and transformed into their present, elfy-looking forms, though, in which case they could be both spirits of nature and leShay creations.

5. Fey are from the Plane of Dreams (which might well be the same as the Curtain of Vaporous Color in the Ethereal Plane). Some are dreams of nature, and others are dreams of other qualities: blood, death, life, sorrow, passion. This story is told best in Orroloth's article.

6. In the Mystara campaign, faeries are reincarnated Immortals from a previous cycle of the Multiverse. They were banished and imprisoned in fey bodies because they would not side with either the Sphere of Life or the Spheres of Death in their great war. They reincarnate endlessly as fey in this cycle until the Multiverse is destroyed again and they once more take their place among the Immortals. This idea is very close to the background of the leShay. Also see this dimensional explanation of Faerie.

7. They're personifications of magic. This is what genies are (according to Secrets of the Lamp). Dryads are personifications of the magic of trees, sea sprites are personifications of the magic of the sea, and so on. Faerie would be some sort of Plane of Magic. Perhaps the Plane of Magic is the Vortex described on the old Mimir site.

8. Green Ronin's The Book of the Righteous explains that the div were a primal race. Originally they were supposed to be a god, but the fruit from which they were going to be born was corrupted, so they were born as ten thousand lesser div instead of a single deity. They were servants of the gods for a time, and the angels were created from their number. Later, the first devils were also created from their number. They rebelled against the gods and, losing the war, were forced to either renounce their immortality or to renounce their free will. Those who renounced their immortality became elves. Those who renounced their free will became genies or fey.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

9. In most European mythologies, the fey are the descendents of the gods-- usually they are either demigods (as per the D&D definition) or are one step below them, but one step above mortals.
Greco-Roman and Celtic mythology generally take the "Divine Level 0" view minus most of the powers and resiliencies of Divine Level 0 creatures (basically, the Celtic and Greco-Roman fey do not age, but they can be killed by mortals. In this sense they'd be practically synomatous with the Outsider type.) Also in Greco-Roman and Celtic mythology, the fey are the ancestors of the royal families, justifying Rule by Birthright for many Greco-Roman/Etruscan/Minoan and Celtic kings and chieftains. In Greco-Roman mythology, most kings were descended from either Nereides (river fey) or less commonly, Dryades (oak fey). The nymphai (fey) in Greco-Roman mythology also show the signs of the mythology's original animistic roots, as many of the nymphai (be they naiades, oceanides, dryades, or oreades) would be transformed by the gods into the first of a certain type of plant or animal, or transformed into the first of that specific subtype of nymphai from a mortal women when some tradgedy occurs (for instance, Poseidon/Neptune would often turn drowned women or children into oceanides, nereides, or some type of aquatic animal, while most of the other gods would turn victims of tragedy into trees, flowers, or herbs.)

There are, of course, some differences in view of what the fey were between culture. In Greco-Roman mythology the fey were nature spirits, while in Celtic and Slavic mythology, they tended to be a lot darker, taking the role of trickster spirits, and used to explain things people didn't understand in those days, such as birth deformities, greusome slayings, psychiatric disorders, failed crops, sickness, cannibalism, mine accidents, and getting lost.
Whereas in Greco-Roman mythology, these things were blamed on the cacodaemons, which were NOT fey, but protogenoi (the protogenoi were the race that preceeded the titans. They included Chaos, Nyx, Erebus, Gaea, Thalassus, and Uranus.) The cacodaemons were the beings-- abstract personifications that Pandora released from her box. They were all the offspring of Nyx, her virgin daughter Eris (nearly all the cacodaemons borne by these two were conceived asexually, as opposed to the more benign personifications that Nyx bore through incest with her brother Erebus), and a few from Oceanus and Tethys. The Greeks and Romans even had a cacodaemon of rabies, specifically.
In the Abrahamic religions, these same phenomena were originally attributed to being curses from God for sin. This differed from Christianity/The New Testament, where the same phenomena were viewed as being either the result of demonic possession, demonic oppression, a simple natural consequence of sin, or a natural consequence of living in a corrupted world (the New Testament states several times that our world belongs to Satan), rather than being a curse from God directly.
As to things such as fey, traditionally all three Abrahamic faiths viewed all gods and supernatural beings of other religions as being Satan's fallen angels/demons (or even Satan himself) in disguise, with the purpose of tricking mortals into denying God.

OTOH, in Buddhism, things akin to faeries (Youkai in Japan are what comes the closest to them) are viewed as being the reincarnations of creatures with attachments to the world of the living. Most (but not all) such creatures are seen as being an inferior incarnation to humans, though some are superior. Ghosts always fall into the "inferior" category. Buddhism also interestingly enough has a "Devil" facsimile-- Mara. He plays an extremely similar role to Satan in monotheism, except that he is motivated by boredom and amusement rather than hatred, and where Satan's sin is rebellion, Mara's is arrogance.

Among the first nations of the Americas, these phenomena were attributed to two major sources with some overlap-- faceless "evil spirits" of various kinds (most of which were attributed to animals-- e.g. the NW Coast groups attributed many types of evil spirits to snakes, but at the same time, one of their divine heroes was the Sisiutl, which was a type of gigantic celestial rubber boa), and cannibals. Many of the original sasquatch/wildman myths and legends (but not all) were based on the cannibalism idea, as was the wendigo of the inuit.
From the Yukon to (at least) the Yucatan Peninsula, cannibalism was even more severe a taboo than it has ever been in the west-- even consuming a bit of your own blood (e.g. from a finger prick) was incredibly taboo, and some legends involved former humans who did this. The first nations believed that consuming human flesh or blood corrupted the subject so badly that they would go mad, take on a bestial nature, and possess an insatiable craving for human flesh. This is the origin of creatures such as the Skookum and the Wendigo (though the Wendigo is also based on hypothermia). Probably, these legends were based on a trace amount of fact, probably of centuries-old stories of cannibalistic serial killers passed down through the generations. Unfortunately, without the advent of modern medicine, this phenomena would have been a lot more common than it is today-- many of the cases were probably due to organic brain diseases such as cancer, benign tumors, encephalitis, and even parasites (and yes, victims of these organic brain diseases tend to have very unkept bodies, and many will end up with body distortions due to paralysis from brain damage-- though at that point they're easy pickins for predators). Other cases were probably a result of paranoid schizophrenia since one thing the legends always have in common is that the cannibal lives isolated in a remote area.
I suppose it's also possible that some groups could have gotten into contaminated food, though I don't think most of the molds that might grow on dried fish and fruits (which is what the NW coast groups ate) would have caused such symptoms.
On a similar subject, I'm sure that plenty of the cases of Lycanthropy (cultural syndrome of Europe similar to the wendigo cultural syndrome) in the past have been due to ergot poisoning.
Cannibals included the cliche hag and mountain warlock, as well. The Xtabay from the Maztica setting is an example of a human corrupted by cannibalism.

Jem
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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

ripvanwormer wrote:
8. Green Ronin's The Book of the Righteous explains that the div were a primal race. Originally they were supposed to be a god, but the fruit from which they were going to be born was corrupted, so they were born as ten thousand lesser div instead of a single deity. They were servants of the gods for a time, and the angels were created from their number. Later, the first devils were also created from their number. They rebelled against the gods and, losing the war, were forced to either renounce their immortality or to renounce their free will. Those who renounced their immortality became elves. Those who renounced their free will became genies or fey.

Peri and div are are races in Persian mythology intermediate between gods, mortals, and fiends (devils/demons, primarily demons in the Persian mythos): Gods are nobler and purer than peri, who are purer than mortals, who are purer than div, who are purer than demons. The div are also known as the daeva, which are used in a totally different sense in the Planescape cosmology, of course. Historically, they appear to be the gods of the region prior to Zoroaster, as the devils of any given religion often are.

The peris were fallen, but repentant. They could return to Heaven when they had done penance. "Paradise and the Peri" is the story of a peri who gains entrance to Heaven after succeeding in various quests. I'm not sure what made the divs any better than the general run of demons. They appear to embody various unpleasant concepts.

If they're intermediate between mortals and celestials/fiends, then here's a thought: they're transitive creatures, like the Ordial. Angels and fiends of various types are how Outer Planar entities deal with mortals. Geniekind are the intermediaries between mortals and the elements of nature. And perhaps fairies are so odd to us in their raw natural strength because they're not really positioned to interact with mortals; they're the original races that divine beings created in order to interact with elementals and the forces of nature, an Outer-to-Inner connection that bends the planar boundary rules like a priest's elemental spellcasting. They're older than us, but less central to existence these days now that Creation is older and gods can also deal with the elements via mortals. Faerie is a bridge realm, a deliberately constructed transverse through reality which touches the Material Plane mainly at support points, where the forces of nature are strong. Its endpoints in the Outer and Inner Planes are the main reasons it exists.

-----

Paizo has some interesting things to say about this; their First World beings are creatures of light and magic, but distinctly troublesome, not at all pure. Given the placement of the azata (yazata in the original Persian) as good exemplars in Pathfinder, peri and div make perfect sense as good and evil fairies. With the First World beings in mind, one might suggest that fairies are the cast-off aspects of concepts that are heavily associated with pure Good and Evil: embodiments of the evil aspects of things like light and family, food and drink, love and happiness (illusion, dependency, gluttony, addiction), and the good aspects of things like darkness and solitude, hunger and fear (sleep and dreams, motivation, the fear of the Lord). That would, however, turn the Seelie/Unseelie relationship upside down, or at least in odd directions.

However, this doesn't explain why Faerie would be older, or the First World, so it would be more in the nature of a replacement than an explanation, I guess.

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

My take of faeries was based less on tradition (although, there is still a connection there) but rather on a role I needed fufilled on the planes. I categorized the fey as one of several trickster gods and placed them all in a realm together.

Characteristics include:
-"Chaotic" as they break (or "bend") the rules of the gods or nature, sometimes maliciously but more often with ultimately positive effects, often taking the form of tricks or acts of thievery
-Resolving problems in unorthodox manners
-Physically weak, so they try to survive the dangers and challenges of the world using trickery and deceit as a defense
-Tricksters help one transcend formal religion to become attuned to something higher. When people take the roles of the gods too literally and insist on mindless devotion (of mortals) to rituals, the Trickster uses humor to undermind this status quo and remind people that it isn't the rituals that are important but the underlying truths that inspired the rituals
(e.g. ridiculing a prude who criticizes everyone else's lack of devotion but who himself/herself has lost sight of being compassionate or charitable)

I even made a faction/sect called the Jesters who followed the tennets of the Trickster and who rejoice in pulling pranks on others (especally those bogged down in rules like the Hardheads and Guvners)

[Note: Although Loki is a trickster god, I felt he was too malicious (usually) to be placed with the fey. This applies to a few other trickster gods who play the role of villain more often than hero]

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Re: The Plane of Shadows and Other "Optional" Planes

Peri and div are are races in Persian mythology intermediate between gods, mortals, and fiends (devils/demons, primarily demons in the Persian mythos)

That's prettymuch how the sidhe and nymphai/satyroides/tritones (the Celtic and Greco-Roman fey, respectively) are.

Oh, yeah, misfortune, disease, and greusome slayings in Greco-Roman mythology were also attributed to malicious spirits of the dead and the various minions of Hecate. Hecate's minions mostly involved various female monsters that would roam the world of the living at night to tempt mortal men so that they can then devour them. Whereas the Cacodaemons generally were not directly responsible for grisly slayings (Ker devours the blood of those who die in battle, but that's nowhere near the same thing. The other cacodaemons simply tempt mortals or strike them with craziness, sickness, etc.)
Hecate's minions include the lamiae, empusae, (both types of vampires), and lampanaides (which were a type of spirit, similar to the balls of light in Japanese folklore. The lampanaides IIRC didn't kill people though, they merely liked to frighten them.)
Though they aren't really considered fey, the harpiai (harpies) fit the same theme as the Greco-Roman fey as they were considered spirits of whirlwinds.

I might as well look at my Theoi.com notes on the various daimones.

Agathoi Daemones: The opposite number of the Cacodaemones; these were good spirits who bestowed blessings upon mankind. Most were children of Zeus. They did not rank among the fey however; in D&D terms they are Divine Rank 0 beings. Though a few, such as Nike, are full-fledged dieties.

Aurai: Nymphai of the breezes

DRYADES SUBTYPES (nymphai of trees and forests)
Aigeiroi: dryades of black poplars.
Ampeloi: nymphai of grape vines
Balanis: dryades of holly
Daphnaie: dryades of laurels.
Hamadryades: dryades of oaks and poplars.
Karyai: dryades of nut trees.
Kraneilai: dryades of cherry trees.
Maliades: dryades of fruit trees.
Meliai: dryades of ash trees and honey.
Moreai: dryades of mulberries
Oreades: dryades of mountain pines.
Ptelei: dryades of elms.
Sykei: dryades of fig trees.

NAIADES SUBTYPES (river nymphs)
Cabeirai: Nymphai of the Kabeirian Mysteries of Samothrake.
Cocythiai: Nymphai daughters of Cocytus, the underworld river of wailing.
Dryades: Nymphai of the trees and forests.
Eleionomai- Naiades of marshes
Hecaterides: Nymphai of the country dance
Hyades- Five star nymphai who made up the constellation Hyades.
Kriniai- Naiades of fountains
Limnades- Naiades of lakes
Menai- The nymphai of the 50 months (of the olympiad)
Nysiades- The nurses of Dionysus
Oceanides- The nymphai of clouds
Pegaiai- Naiades of springs
Pleiades- Seven star nymphai of the Pleiades
Potameides- Naiades of rivers and streams

Lampades: Cthonian torch-bearing nymphai of Hecate who wandered the lands of the living at night in order to frighten mortals.
Nereides: sea nymphai and servants of Amphitrite (Poseidon's wife).

SATYROI SUBTYPES (rustic male fertility spirits and companions of Dionysus)
Panes/Fauni: Satyroi with the legs of goats; they were attendants to both Dionysus and Hermes.
Seilenoi: elderly drunken satyroi

Thriai: Nymphai of divination by pebbles, servants to Hermes.
Tritones: the male counterparts of the nereides and servants of Poseidon.

-----------------------

In comparison, the fey of the Norse, Celts, and Slavs were far more malicious.
Not all the Celtic fey were bad (for instance, the Cait Sith is a lucky spirit), but many were, and the Celtic fey were blamed for epileptic seizures.
Some examples of malicious fey among the three groups:

Asrai: aquatic sprite that's harmless to humans.
Banshee: I don't have to mention this one. In some versions, she is a minor goddess of winter and death.
Boggart: household spirit which misplaces objects, ruins crops, sours milk, and makes animals go lame.
Brownie: benevolent household spirits.
Changeling: A fairy, troll, or other fey that has been left in place of a human child or baby. Abusing the changeling would prompt the fey to return the real child. This was primarily used to explain the existence of psychiatric disorders, mental retardation, and physical sickness in babies and children. SOme cases likely also involved adults suffering from Capgras' Syndrome.
Domovoi: house spirits similar to brownies. Could be malicious if they don't like the animals, and also they might steal from neighbors, and commit poltergeist-like activities.
Fachan: A being so hideous, that any human who sees it suffers a heart attack.
Fossegrim: benevolent song-playing water spirit.
Glaistig: depends on the source. In some she's a malevolent man-eater, while in others she's benevolent.
Kelpie: A water spirit in the form of a white mare, found near lakes. It would drown any who tried to ride it (which it encouraged them to do)
Kobold: They were blamed for miners getting lost, getting poisoned by arsenic, and for mine cave-ins. (though in some versions they also warn miners of impending cave-ins)
Korrigan: short of causing disease and natural disaster, if you name it, they do it as far as malevolent behavior goes.
Leprechaun: They are mischievous, but not malevolent.
Leshy/Leshii: Very mischievous forest spirit, but also helpful to farmers and ranchers.
Marzanna/Morena: prettymuch identical to the banshee, except that in most versions she's a goddess of death and winter.
Merrow: the females are benign, but the males are malevolent.
Nixie/Nix: Shapeshifting water spririts who lured humans of the opposite sex to watery deaths.
Nuckelavee: Malevolent sea spirits who ruined crops, caused famine, and made people (and animals) sick.
Pooka: This is the being that Puck was based off of. Mischievous, but not malevolent.
Redcap: Malevolent, homicidal fey who dye their clothes with human blood.
Rusalka: Water sprites who would seduce men at night then lead them to their watery deaths.
Spriggan: extremely malicious.
Troll: Yeah, these things were just plain malicious.
Vodyanoi: Water spirits-- some are evil and some aren't. The evil ones are incredibly malicious and like to drown swimmers, break dams, and cause other water-type disasters. Good ones help fishermen catch fish.

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