Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

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Moog's picture
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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

First off - Plane of Shadow. Thewhatnow?

I've recently come back to Planescape (and D&D as a whole) after an extended hiatus. I got my hands on a copy of Manual of the Planes, and I'm seeing they've apparently added an entirely new plane. I didn't notice it in any of my old 2nd Ed. Planescape books. When and why was it introduced?

Secondly - There's now a link between the inner and outer planes? Pretty damned sure that wasn't there before. Whole thing with summoning elementals not being possible in the conceptual outer planes. This alters how many spells function (or don't), come to that.

Was this done for a reason? Does the old cosmology not work with 3.0/5 for some inexplicable reason?

MakThuumNgatha's picture
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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

The old cosmology would still work; there are several new spells that require the Shadow plane, but you could do without them. Essentially the difference is that whereas before the cosmology was set up like this:

Outer Planes---Astral Plane---Material Plane---Ethereal plane---Inner Planes

Now the ethereal plane is exclusively connected to the Material plane; there are multiple material planes connected by the shadow plane. And the Material planes (with their attendant ethereal planes and the shadow plane), the Outer planes, and Inner planes all "float" within the Astral plane. There are demiplanes scattered about all over the place.

The change was admittedly unnecessary and you can ignore it with little difficulty; but I like it and that is how the planes are arranged in my campaign.

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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

'Moog' wrote:
I didn't notice it in any of my old 2nd Ed. Planescape books.

You didn't? That's strange - it was there. It was called the Demiplane of Shadow then, but there was quite a bit of detail on it in A Guide to the Ethereal Plane, and in one form or another it's been around since early 1st edition (it was described in the appendix to the original Deities & Demigods back in 1980).

Spells like Shadow Walk, Shadow Monsters, Shadow Magic, Shadow Door, Demi-Shadow Magic, and Demi-Shadow Monsters - any illusion spell that creates solid material - have been based on the Plane of Shadow forever. Those are major spells that were in the 2e Player's Handbook.

Monsters like the shadow dragon and the shade come from the Plane of Shadow. Again, this has always been the case.

It wasn't considered a full plane in 2e (although it was in early 1e), but it's always been a major part of the AD&D cosmology. It's really weird to me that you wouldn't know that, if you had any familiarity with 2e at all.

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Whole thing with summoning elementals not being possible in the conceptual outer planes.

You could do it with a spell key. It creates pseudo-elementals rather than true elementals, but the effect is the same. I'd still use this rule.

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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

Hmmm okay... Not sure my original post warranted sarcasm, but there you go.

I'm aware that there was a Demi-plane of shadow, and that it was connected in some way to the deep etheral. I must admit I've not read A Guide to the Ethereal Plane or indeed the original Deities and Demigods (I was 5 when it came out, and didn't play any D&D until I was 10. Even then, it was Basic D&D).

The 3.5e Cosmology seems to present it as a stand alone plane, seperate from all but the prime material, though. That's more what I was commenting on.

I sincerely apologise for daring to post questions when I quite clearly haven't read enough or don't know enough to already know the answer.

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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

'Moog' wrote:
Not sure my original post warranted sarcasm, but there you go.

I wasn't being sarcastic. At any point. I was just surprised that you apparently hadn't heard of the demiplane of Shadow.

Again, not being sarcastic. That was my honest impression. Apparently I was mistaken.

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I'm aware that there was a Demi-plane of shadow

There you are, then. It's the same thing.

You can understand, then, why I'd be surprised that someone familiar with 2nd edition wouldn't have heard of it.

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I sincerely apologise for daring to post questions when I quite clearly haven't read enough or don't know enough to already know the answer.

No apology necessary for asking the question.

I didn't expect you to have necessarily read the books I cited. I was just noting previous descriptions of the plane, because it's hard to talk about why changes were made without noting previous changes.

I imagine they made it a full plane in 3e because it's so fundamental to the way so many spells work. It had been a full plane in early 1e, too.

Vaevictis Asmadi's picture
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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

But that new weird cosmology that floats in the Astral Plane is just the Eberron stuff, right? WotC didn't actually retcon Planescape and the other campaign settings, did they?

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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

No, everything "floating" in the astral plane is the new default setting. Eberron has its own unique cosmology, as does the Forgotten Realms (but I hope that most people pretend this isn't the case for FR) and some other campaign settings. It's not hard to ignore it; but I prefer it to the old cosmology. It's not really all that weird at all.

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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

'Vaevictis Asmadi' wrote:
But that new weird cosmology that floats in the Astral Plane is just the Eberron stuff, right? WotC didn't actually retcon Planescape and the other campaign settings, did they?

They have a "core" cosmology which is assumed to be default for the new books. This isn't necessarily the Planescape cosmology, although it's very similar.

The 3e philosophy is that each campaign should have its own cosmology, and each DM should be free to alter things to suit individual tastes. Planescape is still Planescape.

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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

Moog, don't worry about asking questions. No matter how many you ask, you've still got a long way to go before you catch up to me. Smiling

Also, Planescape assumed that the planes were the same for all settings, with each setting taking up a different crystal sphere in the Prime. 3/3.5e WotC assumes that each setting has its own cosmology with its own set of planes, the default of which (described in Manual of the Planes 3e) is similar to that of Planescape but with less details fleshed out (left up to the individual DM's) and some major connections changed, such as the Astral being ubiquitous, the Plane of Shadow becoming a transitive, and the Inner Planes being only six in number (to name the most drastic).

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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

You're right, of course. Meh, it's just disappointing, I guess, that WotC have seen fit to change it all when there's was nothing wrong with it in the first place - it was a single joined up multiverse with plenty of scope for whatever kind of world you want to exist within the bounds of its unified cosmology.

Seems like the soul of D&D died with TSR... Sad

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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

I really don't see this as much of a big deal. I prefer for all of the DnD settings to be part of a unified cosmology; so in my campaigns they are. The goal of WotC's changes was to put control more firmly in the hands of the individual DM's. Of course a DM was always free to make whatever choices he wanted; but these new changes force them to take control into their own hands so as not to use much of the crap WotC puts out (example: Illithids from the future who arrived in our timeline 2000 years ago).

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Plane of Shadow + the apparently new (to me) cosmology

'Moog' wrote:
You're right, of course. Meh, it's just disappointing, I guess, that WotC have seen fit to change it all when there's was nothing wrong with it in the first place - it was a single joined up multiverse with plenty of scope for whatever kind of world you want to exist within the bounds of its unified cosmology.

Seems like the soul of D&D died with TSR... Sad


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