Planars and Equipment

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Persephone Imytholin's picture
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Planars and Equipment

"Interloper" wrote:
Now heres a hypothetical situation:

What if the character was born in a world were guns had been part of achient history? Such as a hi-tech world that had fallen from civilised grace, but still had the ability to make AK-47 etc. The legends the PC heard as a child were full of glock-weilding knights slaying bionically-upgraded dragons and demonic machines. How would your explination of TR fit into this setting?

Flip it around the other way - complexity as a floor rather than a ceiling for TR, so that swords and bows don't have the same ideological effects as an MP5.

Interloper's picture
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Planars and Equipment

I think I may have found a solution to our problems...

Make DR work like Armour Rating out of Traveller d20.

The first point of DR negates the lowest dice of damage rolled by the attacker, the second point negates the next lowest dice, and so on untill there's only one dice left (the one that rolled highest). After that, each point of DR negates one point of damage.

EXAMPLE 1: a hero fires a shotgun at the bearded devil she is fighting and hits. She rolls the dice for damage (2d10) and gets a 5 and a 6. The barbarzu has DR 5, so the first point negates the lowest dice (the 5), after which the remaining 4 points are subtracted from the remaining dice (6 - 4) for a total damage of 2 points.

EXAMPLE 2: having run out of shotgun shells, out hero pulls out her trusty longsword and attacks the devil with it. She hits. Rolling for damage (1d8 + 2) she gets a 4 + 2 = 6. As the weapon only does one die of damage, all the DR is duducted directly from the damage rolled, for (6 - 5 =) 1 damage.

EXAMPLE 3: after killing the barbarzu, our hero manages to locate a glock and some explosive bullets for it. She is later attacked by a lemure, and she shoots at it, hitting. She rolls damage (2d6 + 1d6 for explosive ammo) getting a 3, a 3 and a 4. The first two points of the lemure's DR negate the two lower die rolls (the two 3s), and the remaining 3 points reduce the 6 to 1.

So thus DR works normally against weapons that only deal one die of damage, and is much more effective against weapons that deal multiple dice. The only modification we would have to make to anything is probably to make the Greatsword deal 1d12, and the Spiked Chain, falchion, guisarme, ranseur and scythe deal 1d8 damage. Obvesously, DR-ignoring guns are very deadly, but would also be very expensive.

I prefer this over TR, because it discriminates against weapons on the basis of their damage die, not their technological advancement. The fluff reson for this is up to the individual DM to work out.

P.S.: AR is covered by the OGL, as it is in the Traveller 20 Lite book that can be downloaded for free from somewhere.

Mephit James's picture
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Planars and Equipment

I like this idea, previous arguments notwithstanding. I think there is room for TR for some things, but I guess such a common mechanic is not the place for it (maybe some ancient monsters that are resistant to electronics like dragons are reistant to magic...)
For a fluff reason (at least in this case) the barbazu's hide absorbs the momentum of each individual bullet, greatly reducing the effectiveness of the shotgun which relies on so many bullets. The longsword, relying on a single blade is more effective. Still this doesn't solve the problem of a longsword built for a large creature, maybe we should have a new progression for changing weapon size. And I would rule that this new DR doesn't work against magical damage such as magic missile and burning hands, which would be fairly useless even at high levels.
Also, where is this Traveller d20 you speak of, for it intrigues me greatly...

Interloper's picture
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Planars and Equipment

Actually, the old DR never worked on Magic MIssiles or any other spell for that matter, so it is logical that the new DR wouldn't either.

As for large weapons... We could either A): say that all melee weapons count as dealing one die of damage, or B): Leave it as is. I mean, a good deal of the damage from a ogre's greataxe is from its strength, besides which, not many PCs are going to be using weapons built for creatures bigger than Medium

Erik's picture
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Planars and Equipment

I like the TR idea for certain fiends. Still, I don't think things like Asmodeus would need the nerdy spinagon.
"I am beyond such silly concepts as time. I am the evil of Go smacking Og over the head with a big rock. I am the evil of a million men riding for a false god, led by false leaders. I am the evil of Bill Gates."
Okay, so maybe not that last one. Sticking out tongue
But still, what makes the BIG players in the grand go-game of morality so important is because they personify something timeless.

Still, that's not what I'm here to talk about. I'm here about ways to nullify the TR. For example, while a random Balor may very well ignore your average AK-47, loading it with bullets forged from elemental(perhaps even prime, but that'd be a bit easy to get) lead gives it very little to argue with. Can't argue with facts, as they say.
So I suggest letting weapons loaded with elemental-forged ammo ignore TR.

Bob the Efreet's picture
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Planars and Equipment

I like that idea. Still, I'd make elemental-forged ammo hard to come by, so as not to completely make TR meaningless.

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nick012000's picture
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Planars and Equipment

I don't like this.

Firstly, your 'game balance' reasons for implementing this don't exist. A well built melee fighter deals just as much damage with his greatsword as a guy with a gun. If he's got 16 Str and 3 levels of Strong Hero (and he will), he will deal more damage than your typical assault rifle will.

Besides, in d20 Modern, you have to remember that most melee characters are more defensive than gun characters are. One with the right feats removes your opponent's Str bonus to hit (bg plus fighting fiends), and if they miss, you get to try to trip them, and if that succeeds, you get a free attack. And then you get another free attack regardless.

Also, swords already are easier to enchant, because they're cheaper, and that matters considerably in d20 Modern.

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