Planar Wizard Specialists

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Gerzel's picture
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Planar Wizard Specialists

Planar Wizard Specialists

I've been looking through the PHB and thinking about specialist wizards…and how most of them just don't seem to be worth it.

My major complaints are (in no particular order):

*The entire school of Enchantment is reduced to practically useless at high levels where racial abilities, class abilities, and magic items often make enemies and creatures immune to such magics. Also in the PS setting at low levels many of the best spells only target those beings that are considered people, a narrow range of humanoids. The enchanter/enchantress is a common trope in a fantasy setting however the rules seem to make them very very weak.

*Illusion faces much the same problems as Enchantment, but not to the same degree. Personally I believe that Illusion at higher levels should be more powerful in the PS setting where so much relies on belief.

*Diviners compete heavily with their divine counterparts. Though this isn't so bad as there are some arcane divination spells that are particularly useful. And unless a DM is prepared for it a diviner PC esp one that focuses on omens and future perception, can be problematic.

*There are no Elemental specialists core classes like there are for the schools of magic and there aught to be in my reckoning especially with the inner planes. Now before anyone points me to the OA books I would like to specify that I mean hermetic or western tradition Elementalists (the same traditions that the inner planes are based on).

*The specialist classes as they stand are well, just a bit bland. Sacrifice schools X, Y, and Z, get a bonus with school A.

What are your thoughts on this?

Rhys's picture
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Planar Wizard Specialists

After reading the Expanded Psionics Handbook, I really wish specialist Wizards could be handled in the same way as Psions. That is, there is a general "Sorcerer/Wizard" spell list, but there are separate lists of spells that are reserved to be available only to Wizards who specialize in that school. So, while an Abjurer or Evoker could cast charm person, it takes a true Enchanter to cast dominate person. While a Diviner could manage to summon a wolf or a mephit, a Conjurer could grab a babau or an elemental.

Gerzel's picture
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Planar Wizard Specialists

Good point Rhys

However I do think that a general mage of high enough level should be able to reach those spells initially reserved only for specialists. Perhaps make certain spells lower level for specialists? Though that gets into other problems.

I belive that the best way to handle making core class specialist wizards is to give them bonuses and features based on their school or focus and not all at once. A low level specialist SHOULD look closer to a normal mage than a high level one.

One thing I'd especially like to give enchanters and illusionists and necromancers who often have their spells automatically immuned or resisted out of usefulness(esp the enchanters) are a way around those immunities and barriers that their non-specialist counterparts just can't do.

For Enchanters make the charm spells lower level in at least some cases. Charming someone should be much easier for an Enchanter. That and define "Person" as "another creature of the same type as the caster" as, the way I see it, the reason it is easier to charm people for humans is because they know better how humans think and what they find charming.

I would propose Enchanters get by level: 1st - Charm Person, 2nd Charm Animal or Person, 3rd Charm monster. With the dominate spells also adjusted.

Also I'd add in Enchanter only feats that might allow certain spells and effects to work on elementals, constructs, undead and the like perhaps as metamagic.

The Illusionist's problem is the fact that often at higher levels he loses the selection of spells that he once had at lower levels and those lower level spells really don't work so well anymore against high-level foes. Above sixth level spells an illusionist has five spells to learn. Three seventh and one eighth and ninthe from the PHB(3.0). That and the ninthe level spell only is a repeat of another spell made into an area effect.

The Necro's troubles stem from all those pesky clerics running around. That and a cleric gets the best necromantic spells many levels before the Necromancer specialist. The way to remedy this I belive it to allow the necro to get those necromantic spells at the lower level the cleric does. Other than that there are turn resistence and other things.

A summoner has problems because all the summoning spells are rather short duration and take a full round beyond when they are cast to take effect. This might be remedied with a feat.

As for the elementalists(well also the summoner and other architypes) they dont' even get core classes. As a ball park I'd suggest that they get benefits that would allow them to survive in the respective elemental planes without magical aid around tenth to fifteenth level of the class depending on the element. Also one would be have to be careful to make sure that such benefits would also help out casters who start with some resistence and affinity for those elements.

I would also suggest that part of the balance for some of these elementalist classes would be vulnerabilities to oposing elemental magics. However that would have to be done carefully if done at all.

Some elements such as fire have multipul good spells to fill out a specialist spell list while others like mineral and earth might not have quite the same selection. Thus the benefits should not be equal across the board.

I think it goes with out saying that an Elementalist would be restricted from chooseing spells of the oposing element.

One thing I've thought about is that the energy types don't match up to the elemtent types.

Energies:
Fire
Cold
Acid
Electricity
Sonic
Force
Positive
Negative

Now most of the time they are matched up with elements like this:
Element/Energy
Fire/Fire
Cold/Ice
Acid/Ooze
Electricity/Lightning
Sonic/Air
Force/?
Postitive/Positive/Good
Negetive/Negetive/Evil

Nemui's picture
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Planar Wizard Specialists

'Gerzel' wrote:
*The entire school of Enchantment is reduced to practically useless at high levels where racial abilities, class abilities, and magic items often make enemies and creatures immune to such magics. Also in the PS setting at low levels many of the best spells only target those beings that are considered people, a narrow range of humanoids. The enchanter/enchantress is a common trope in a fantasy setting however the rules seem to make them very very weak.

"Racial abilities, class abilities, and magic items" exist in Prime-based settings also. Remember that in Planescape aasimars, tieflings, and the like are humanoids, and not native outsiders - thye can be affected by charm person just as easily as a human.

Quote:
*Illusion faces much the same problems as Enchantment, but not to the same degree. Personally I believe that Illusion at higher levels should be more powerful in the PS setting where so much relies on belief.

Meh. I don't really see a connection between illusions and belief. Conjuration (creation) and belief, perhaps, but not illusion.

Quote:
*Diviners compete heavily with their divine counterparts. Though this isn't so bad as there are some arcane divination spells that are particularly useful. And unless a DM is prepared for it a diviner PC esp one that focuses on omens and future perception, can be problematic.

Divine counterparts? What does this have to do with Planescape?

Quote:
*There are no Elemental specialists core classes like there are for the schools of magic and there aught to be in my reckoning especially with the inner planes. Now before anyone points me to the OA books I would like to specify that I mean hermetic or western tradition Elementalists (the same traditions that the inner planes are based on).

IIRC, Unearthed Arcana has some elementalist wizard variants. If not, go ahead and make some, possibly using the psionic pyrokyneticist as an example.

Quote:
*The specialist classes as they stand are well, just a bit bland. Sacrifice schools X, Y, and Z, get a bonus with school A.

Again, this has little to do with Planescape setting, and is a flaw (?) of the core rules.

Unearthed Arcana has some spec. wizard class variants that you nmight be interested in. Can't say I like them all, but they're definitely worth checking out.

Nemui's picture
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Planar Wizard Specialists

'Gerzel' wrote:
I do think that a general mage of high enough level should be able to reach those spells initially reserved only for specialists. Perhaps make certain spells lower level for specialists? Though that gets into other problems.

Feat:
Focused Specialization [General]
Prerequisites: Knowledge (arcana) 7 ranks, Spellcraft 7 ranks, ability to cast arcane spells, specialized in a school of magic
Benefit: You have improved access to some of the spells belonging to your specialized school, as detailed below.
(example)
Enchantment:
2nd - hold person, suggestion;
3rd - charm monster;
4th - dominate person, hold monster;
5th - mass suggestion;
6th - mass hold person;
7th - mass charm monster;
8th - dominate monster, mass hold monster.

How's that?

Quote:
One thing I'd especially like to give enchanters and illusionists and necromancers who often have their spells automatically immuned or resisted out of usefulness(esp the enchanters) are a way around those immunities and barriers that their non-specialist counterparts just can't do.

While I love both enchantments and necromancies, I must object. There's a reason why many creatures are immune or resistant to effects from these schools, and that reason is the fact that many of these spells are instakill. Circumventing these is ... questionable. It's like having evokers that ignore a creature's elemental resistances.

Quote:
Also I'd add in Enchanter only feats that might allow certain spells and effects to work on elementals, constructs, undead and the like perhaps as metamagic.

Elementals, sure. Constructs and (all) undead, no way. At least not as enchantment. Necromancy spells to charm undead already exists (cojntrol undead and the like), and I wouldn't mind seeing a transmutation that does this to constructs. But not [charm, mind-affecting] enchantments.

Quote:
The Illusionist's problem is the fact that often at higher levels he loses the selection of spells that he once had at lower levels and those lower level spells really don't work so well anymore against high-level foes.

They don't? IMO, the image line of spells, starting with silent image and ending in shades, works very well in most situations.

Quote:
The Necro's troubles stem from all those pesky clerics running around. That and a cleric gets the best necromantic spells many levels before the Necromancer specialist.

There are ways around this - prestige classes like true necromancer, etc. (not the cheesy 3.5 version, the old one).

Nemui's picture
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Psionic Proposal

Revised Charm Person:

Charm
Enchantment (Charm) [Mind-Affecting]; Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1; Components: V, S; Casting Time: 1 standard action; Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels); Target: One creature of appropriate type (see text); Duration: 1 hour/level; Saving Throw: Will negates; Spell Resistance: Yes.

[no change]
This charm makes a creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person’s language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming.
[/no change]

The type of creature that you can affect depends on your caster level, as follows:
At caster level 1-4, charm works only on humanoids.
At caster level 5-8, the spell can also affect an animal, fey, giant, or monstrous humanoid.
At caster level 9-12, the spell can also affect an aberration, magical beast, or dragon.
At caster level 13 and above, the spell can also affect an elemental or outsider.

Gerzel's picture
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Planar Wizard Specialists

Wow Thanks Neumi

I've got a test today so I don't have time to look over what you said thuroughly though I do like the feat suggestions you give. Erg nor do I have time for spell chekers.

Later

Gerzel's picture
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Planar Wizard Specialists

Well I'm still working on coming up with some core class specialist wizards besides those given in the PHB. Well here is the very start of what I'm doing for a Fire Elementalist.

Mage of Flames

Powers:
Rebuke Fire Creatures/Turn Water (No channeling of positive or negative energy)
Growing Fire resistence w/immunity eventually
Weakness to Cold and water spells
Fire Subtype at 20

Spells
1st
Burning Hands
Endure Elements Fire
Summon Monster I (Fire Creatures)

2nd
Continual Flame
Flaming Sphere
Flame Blade
Heat Metal
Produce Flame
Pyrotechnics
Resist Elements (Fire)
Summon Monster II (Fire Creatures)

3rd
Flame Arrow
Fireball
Protection from Elements (Fire)
Summon Monster III (Fire Creatures)

4th
Fire Shield
Fire Trap
Summon Monster IV (Fire Creatures)
Wall of Fire

5th
Summon Monster V (Fire Creatures)
Wall of Fire

6th
Summon Monster VI (Fire Creatures)

7th
Fire Storm
Delayed Blast Fireball
Summon Monster VII (Fire Creatures)

8th
Incendiary Cloud
Summon Monster VIII (Fire Creatures)

9th
Summon Monster IX (Fire Creatures)

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