Planar Renovation Project: The Positive Energy Plane

Same for Inner Planes, which didn't even have monsters.

Incorrect. The Inner Planes book gives rules for travel in each plane, as well as the effects that most hazards cause, and the ability modifiers for avoiding certain hazards. It most certainly isn't complete; there are no rules for Eternal Ice anywhere in the Planescape books, nor for Vividium, and rules are not listed for several locations.
That's still far more complete than most of the renovation projects, here.
If you want examples, then let's look at the elemental plane of fire:
--Rules for vision
--Damage to characters and equipment from heat, including a chart that shows damage by AC. This chart is the basis for the damage caused by the plane and "Burning Heat" (in Sandstorm), which is taken from the mid-level ACs on the chart (3d10 to be exact). Likewise, the damage from cold on the Paraelemental Plane of Ice is the basis for Unearthly Cold and general cold damage in 3x.
--The effects of toxic gases on the characters
--New hazards and rules for them, such as Shadowfire
--Details on the effects on magic that are not included in the Planar magic effects charts.

As a better example (and more familiar to me), let's look at Paraelemental Ice.
--Rules for movement
--Rules for vision
--Rules for cold damage
--Expanded details on magical effects not listed in the Planar magic effects chart (i.e. fire, heat, and flame effects deal only half damage, cold spells are useless)
--References to hazards detailed in the DMG (such as winds, steep slopes, and icy surfaces)
--Hazards, such as thin ice and crevasses. The rules for true cold sadly are not complete, as it does not tell us how much damage unprotected idiots suffer within it, nor does it give the rules for the freezing of abstract concepts (though presumably the sufferer would have to make a Wis or Con save every hour or whatever or suffer permanent ability damage. I've yet to figure how to deal with the mechanics of this for 3.5 rules without making them as difficult and deadly as 1-2E rules.)

You have a point on the Planewalker's Handbook and Planescape Box, however (with the exception of Sigil).

Mechanics are not everything. One might argue this is especially true in Planescape. We built on the framework and provided more areas for people to expand upon it. If you want mechanics so bad, go make them for yourself.
I do. You would know this quite well if you read through the convoluted mess that is my Paraplane of Ice renovation topic
The topic is actually meant as a rough draft of sorts-- eventually I hope to organize the entire thing into an RTF file (I've never made a PDF file and lack any licnesed software for making them; I'd have to download a 30 day trial program in order to make one, so I'm hoping rather that, once I make the RTF, that I can ask someone here to make the PDF version for me. This may not be necessary, however, since I think both PCs and Macs can read RTF files now, and I have no plan for the time being of including any art.)
In fact, I should edit the opening post right now to list what the topic has thus far, and what I plan to have.

I also have a topic (the "Brainstorm" one) where I am expanding upon and converting ideas and mechanics from 2E and 3.5.
Though it will be exceedingly difficult, eventually I plan to make an event chart for travel on the elemental, paraelemental, and quasielemental planes. The encounter chart includes "nothing", "false alarm", and encounter charts for hazards, outposts (caravans, nomads, villages, towns) and monsters (classic encounter chart). Sadly, half-assed attempts thus far to make such a chart have failed, partly because there are just too many monsters for some planes.
Also, some people might find the charts too complicated/too many die rolls. The first table would be a D6 to determine the type of encounter. My intention after that was to use a percentile roll based on the encounter, with a third D20 table for rare encounters on the monster table, but there are too many monsters for either table. (I had no intention of writing out the encounter tables for each plane, just a general guideline). Also, I couldn't figure out a way to scale the appropriate rate of one type of encounter to another using a mere D6 roll.
My intention for such a convoluted chart is that it would be used INSTEAD of attempting to flesh out every location/etc. on an inner plane, which would be ludicrous to attempt, anbd the chart's framework could also be used for some outer planes as well.

I like to keep rules to a minimum, personally. They tend to clutter things up. Things like the charisma check penalties in antithetical planes in the 3e MotP strike me as more annoying than flavorful.
I prefer the 2E rules for spell casting and monsters with maximized HP per HD, smarter oozes on Ooze, and smarter elementals from the Planescape books, myself, so I don't use those rules for antithetical planes, either.

My favorite kind of roleplaying is freeform.
Same here, but that's not what D&D or AD&D is.

Turn your stuff into a nicely formatted HTML document first
I couldn't code HTML if my life depended on it.

(any word processing program should be able to convert stuff into HTML)
I have no idea how to do that.

Also, I always assumed that the purpose of the Planar Renovation projects was to eventually hash out a 3.5 conversion of all the locations and stuff located in the Planes of Law, Planes of Chaos, and Planes of Conflict that never made it to 3x, and make it available as a PDF and RTF file on the downloads page.

Some of the planes (both outer and inner) are severely lacking in bestiary and other things, though. This is most evident in my latest (I think) post in the Inner Planes Resource index, where the list for bestiary on Paraelemental Ice is about 5x longer than that for Paraelemental Magma, even though 2E sourcebooks state that the latter has more life and diversity on it (the problem, of course, is that Paraelemental Ice represents an entire damage type and monster subtype, though strangely this rule does not help Quasielemental Lightning...). Another example (same topic) is the list of negative native monsters as opposed to positive ones, even when you subtract the 'nilla non-indigenous undead out of the picture.
However, this has been a problem since 1E, and Inner Planes even made a half-assed attempt to justify exactly this (claiming that Positive Energy is more hostile than Negative Energy, somehow) However, even with such a rule in mind, there are not enough positive-indigenous OR positive-loving monsters, which IIRC is only around 1/3rd the number of negative monsters minus the non-indigenous undead.

For outer planes, Bytopia springs to mind as one with a severe lack in indigenous bestiary. In fact, to get an idea on which planes are short on bestiary, one need only look at my Outer Planes Resource index (which reminds me, I need to update the list soon. Too bad the notes I took for that are scattered throughout various .word files...)

Quite frankly, the mechanics are not that important
I very, very strongly disagree here.

Planescape would still very much be Planescape if you took the mechanics out of the equation entirely.
Again, I disagree. At its heart, Planescape is a 2E setting. Take the mechanics out, and all it is is a series of beautifully written computer game rulebooks without the computer game. Furthermore, for both 2E and 3x, the mechanics from either version serve as the building blocks for the mechanics of the other-- with a few exceptions, it's not overly difficult to convert 2E to 3E (except for monsters) or 3E to 2E (except for converting skill checks to ability modifiers) if you know what you're doing. It's just a lot of work depending on how much you want to convert. This is particularly true for the damage formulas-- most of them are either the same or strongly based off of one another. The only exception I can think of off my head is the damage suffered in Cania in the Fiendish Codex II, which is a whopping ridiculous 10d6 cold damage per minute, as opposed to 1d6 per round in 2E Planescape (which is the same damage you'd take on Paraelemental Ice.)

Though I agree that Planescape is stronger in the fluff aspects, the mechanics aspects are still important. Otherwise, if what you claim were true, we would not have that 6 chapter 3.5 Planescape campaign guide + two bestiaries on the download page, you know.

Also, you may recall I did stick my nose into your Project Ice thread, but I gave up after nearly every idea I came up with was shot down instantly because it didn't adhere exactly specifically to what you claim is canon.
Yeah, I admit I have a rather narrow view of that. Partly because I have trouble accepting the idea of abstract themes for the inner planes, since in my mind you're then limiting all planar natives and even inhabitants to those personality traits. Though since working on the Ice Renovation project, I have indeed noticed extant themes among the indigenous creatures and the archomentals of both Ice and other inner planes, as well.
So I'd probably go with 'tendencies' rather than 'traits' for the inner planes.
I suppose it doesn't help that my high functioning autism causes me to get stuck on details while being unable to see the big picture-- or keep things simple. I'm a details freak, obsessive-compulsive style, so to me, EVERYTHING has to be meticulously detailed with all the bases covered. So I guess I simply don't get the purpose of just re-summarizing the fluff of the plane. It just seems so incredibly half-assed to me (I mean no offense by that, it just seems to me like something that is 90% devoid of effort. I mean, what's the point without the details? To me it rings of plenty of 2E and even 3.0 entries, for instance several skill expansion entries throughout the 3.0 books *such as Sword and Fist* that give expanded uses for a skill, but then don't explain how to apply it-- no DCs, no example DCs, no example scenarios, etc. A goood 2E example would be the myriad of special materials presented throughout the various books-- for example, vividium in Inner Planes. The books basically state what the substance is and that it exists, but no mention of how much it costs, or even what kinds of effects it has when used as a special material, or even how to use it in manufacturing! Eternal Ice was only slightly better, as the effects were given, but nothing on how durable it is against attacks was given, and unless there was something in the Sigil books, there was no price guide for eternal ice boxes, either.
Planescape was hardly the only setting with this problem-- outside of Arms & Equipment and possibly Volo's Guide to All Things Magical *though only for some materials* and the Dark Sun box, NONE of the 2E special materials were given rules for manufacture, and only a few materials had their special effects listed.)

because they stop talking about interesting new points on each plane we've be trying to renovate.

What do you mean? That they go horribly off-topic as this one has, or that it devolves into arguments like this?

While the Planar Renovation threads usually end up breaking up into mild arguments at some point, they are still one of my favorite things on this site.

I side with the "fluff" camp as I can usually come up with game mechanics and monster stats once I’m inspired by a good idea for an adventure or location. But if I think a plane/location is uninspired; I have no incentive to think of game mechanics or monster stats (I mean, how often was anyone inspired to think of new monsters/adventures in Arcadia or Bytopia before we tweaked them? Now, I’m actually excited by these planes)
So I love the ideas for themes, new sites, new ideas for monsters and new personalities on the planes. So far, I think almost all the Renovations have been very useful to me to generate new ideas for planes that I had previously found a little dull. I ignore a lot of what gets suggested but I still appreciate the creativity involved and I typically find that very helpful.

Since not every idea that gets thrown out is going to appeal to everyone or fit into everyone’s campaign; things are bound to get cluttered. Unless we appoint someone as an arbitrator as to what is “accepted” and “too far out there”, I think this is bound to happen. Perhaps after a few weeks of bouncing ideas around; someone can make an “official” renovation with the ideas that seemed to garner the most support and interest – but that’s additional work for somebody.
For the open forums, I think the current setup is fine even if all the good ideas get put out there within the first few weeks

I don’t like limiting creative ideas too much. I do propose counter-arguments and alternative suggestions; but I try not to express them as mandates or insults (and my apologies to anyone who interpretted my comments that way)

The outer plane renovations always ignite my imagination more as they are planes about ideas.
My only suggestion for a “rule” regarding renovations for the elemental planes is that while ideas and themes can be used (especially to inspire ideas); I don’t think these themes should ever limit the elements.
Fire might be tied to themes or anger, to themes of passion, or to themes of purification. But ultimately, I think it should just be viewed as just the raw element. Certain citizens or locations might tie into the suggested themes; but I think that these should be exceptions that add color rather than something that HAS to be present throughout the planes.

I disagree somewhat here. Or maybe I come at it from a different angle.

See, the way I see it, the Inner Planes are affected by belief as much as the Outer Planes. It just doesn't manifest the same way. The most obvious examples are Air and similar planes where "down" is whatever direction you want to be down.

I grant that the Inner Planes are much more static compared to the Outer. None of them are morphic like Limbo and none are in any real danger of losing layers to others or shifting their properties. The Plane of Fire is fire is fire.

That being said, Fire (or Water, or Air, or...) means different things to different people. I believe that creatures, entities, locations, and concepts can spring to life in the Inner Planes just as well as the Outer Planes. For one, I think it makes the Inner Planes much more interesting. For two, the overarching theme of Planescape boils down to "belief is everything."

The heart of an individual plane should be the pure, unadultered element. Fire is still Fire, no matter which way you look at it. The Plane of Fire is all about Fire. But I think that can (and should) be taken to the next step. The Plane of Fire is all about Fire in its various forms. Fire gets associated with anger, passion, intelligence, creativity, inspiration, light, fear, warmth and comfort, cooking, speed, and destruction, among other things. Take these themes and extrapolate where you can to populate the plane. Have creatures or places that exemplify these themes. I think that makes for a much more colorful and interesting Plane of Fire than a few archomentals plus Kossuth over there and efreeti playing happy efreeti politics over here.

Besides, it's not like these planes are hurting for space

Just to clarify, my intent with the PRP as a whole when I started it was to encourage everyone to help enhance the backdrop of each plane. Arcadia became something (imo) more interesting -- so did Bytopia and so did Gehenna. I figured if the bigger picture is enhanced, people would feel more inspiration to fill in the sites and cultures and other, more specific creations on their own. Judging from what many people like Palomides, and even Evil, have said, I feel the project is hitting its mark pretty well. Sure, the project could expand to detail more specifics, but I feel the project threads do their jobs for the most part.

That being said, if anyone wants to co-conspire on a predominantly fluff or cross-system (3.5 and 4e) netbook for "Arcadia: The Campaign Setting" or whatever other plane, I think that could be fun, too Very busy, a lot of work, but I think it'd be fun.

WRT the Positive, I have an idea for a community of inanimate objects that gained animation and sentience through the plane's energy but I haven't had time to really hash it out in my head.

Center- I think we are just coming from different angles. I was trying to speak out against people insisting that an elemental plane HAS to embody a particular theme throughout (e.g. everyone on the Plane of Fire being consumed with anger)

Although this is off the main topic, I'll mention how I handle the elemental planes.
I initially thought it was odd that anyone/thing could survive on some planes. (E.g. why have a major trading city that is composed of nothing but fire?)
But like you I re-envisioned the elemental planes as ones that do get modified somewhat but thought. I think Dark Sun had a set of elemental planes that were even more hospitiable than the norm; the reason was that they thought of the basic four elemental planes as more beneficial.
I ran in the same way. I had the "core" of Fire be an inferno with no society, no trade, and no real motivation for visits (unless one needed a spell component of "pure fire"). These cores were usually inhospitable (although air and water never get too inhospitable)
But then the closer to the "border " of the plane, the more that the structure and society of Fire would take on aspects that mortals associate with fire (anger, passion, safety, etc.) or aspects that the legends of mortals re-enforced (e.g. the City of Brass) And these areas would have societies and wouldn't be as inhospitable (meaning that an instant death isn't a guarenteed fact of visiting)
But ultimately, I don't try to place too much of this imposed border on the inner planes as I feel that the underlying it all should just be the raw elemental power. They shouldn't be too affected by thought

We should probably discuss this elesewhere but I guess my tweaking was due to my big problem with the City of Brass.

I know it has its roots in Arabic legend, but it never made much sense to me. I can't see it being an effective trading center if it is going to harm many of the potential traders and cause most of the products brought to it to burn or melt (yes, I know there are some items that can take the heat; but comparitively few as opposed if such a trading center was set up in Air)
I didn't want to give up the City of Brass; so I tried to justify (to myself) a reason for making the city less harsh.

By the same token (and in a faint effort to return to the original thread), I made the interior of the Positive to be lethal to an outsider without a TON of magical protection. I then made the "edges" a little less dangerous.
E.g. Positive plane protection works without problems on my "border"; but has increasing chances of failure as one plunges into the "interior". Outsiders can live indefinitely on the border with minimal magical wards but can only survive brief forays into the core

You may not like my arrangement, but that was my solution

IIRC, it's mentioned in some book (can't remember if it's a Planescape or 3e book) that the City of Brass is enchanted so it's livable for PC races. Comfort is questionable, but it's at least somewhere a human could get by.

The reason for this is the efreeti keep mortal slaves -- not to the point where they have the dao's reputation as slavers but they have mortal slaves. So magic (or maybe belief) keeps the City of Brass hospitable enough for "normal people" to visit.

I know these are the best explanations available but it still seems a bit stilted.
If I remember correctly, the efreet sultan (or pasha or whatever title he is) lives in the City of Brass.
If the whole city were at this reduced temperature, then that makes as much sense as asking the Emperor of France to live in a freezer for the benefit of his guests.
I made (perhaps based on something I read) sectors of the city (trade district/slave quarters/etc.) to be survivable hot while the palace and efreet neighborhoods were normal full-effect hot. (This also helps keep the slaves from running away - where could they go?)

But my original, poorly expresed point was that I personally like these exceptions (cities for trade, etc.) and places affected by thought (e.g. places in Fire for purification, places of emotional passion, etc.) on the "edge" of plane while keeping the central core a place of raw elemental force.
It doesn't affect play too much; but I like a large part of an elemental plane to be raw element without any outside associations or purposes placed on it.
Ultimately, that's just a preference of mine.

I hope we can get back to the topic soon as I feel that i've helped hijack this thread

Back to the main topic, a brief look into the psychology of the glimmerskin:

it's an infinite star, a sea of meaningless light that goes on and on. Supposedly, there are settlements where creatures of flesh live protected from the sheer overwhelming intensity of life. I never saw them. Before I left the plane, I never "saw" anything. It's all light, no gradiations, nothing for vision to pick up. Indeed, there was hardly a "me." I was nearly one with the plane, nothing but a feeling of restlessness surrounded by a circle of maddeningly serene elders.

The elders do not want us to leave. They disapprove of our adventures. But we became increasingly addicted to them. The feeling of flesh, of air and water and fire and earth, is like nothing on my plane. Most of all, we grew addicted to battle, to adrenaline and sweat and pain and victory and defeat. This is life, not the stale and constant boredom of the positive energy plane.

The elders are increasingly impatient. They say we are interfering with the development of souls. They say our skin-riding is an abomination.

But where did the elders come from? Why are they so different from us? Where did they get their serenity, their knowledge of the workings of other planes, and most of all their individuality?

Of course, they were once like us. Perhaps for centuries they leapt from body to body on this wonderous material plane, and in the bodies of warriors and adventurers they learned about magic, money, sex, and of course the struggle for life in death in the thick of battle, until they finally felt ready to retire. And they presume to judge us.

I only hope things don’t go too far. With the knowledge and skills they must still have, it would be very awkward if they came to collect their wandering young.

My campaign recently took place in the Positive. Basically, it was about this wizard who became addicted to positive energy, and in my setting overdose of positive energy makes you mutate because your body is trying to get rid of the excess lifeforce. By the time we met him he was a hideous monstrosity, which was expressed in game mechanics by giving him tons of grafts and making him an Aberration.