Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

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Wicke's picture
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Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

So the way that the Paraelemental Plane of Ooze is represented in the canon is that the whole place is just filled with a disgusting morass and it's inhospitable to life in the extreme. Pockets of acid and/or disease are scattered throughout the entire plane and any unlucky sods who find themselves in one of these pockets is liable to end up in the Dead Book right quick. Any native creatures or inhabitants on this plane are almost always hostile to outsiders. So, as far as establishing the overarching theme of the Inner Planes - survival - the Plane of Ooze plays to that theme quite well. As written, there's almost no reason to visit the place, which means it's ripe for renovation.

The thing is about Ooze is that it's filled with the stuff of life. All those mounds of offal and garbage and everything else under the sun that's just plain disgusting? It's everywhere in Ooze. And when that stuff all breaks down, it turns into the that that plants use to grow on. Dilute a sample of the stuff of Ooze and use it to fertilize a field of crops and you could almost watch them grow.

Given that in the Plane of Water you can find entire forests of kelp or other underwater plants or even islands of coral, there's no reason to believe that you wouldn't likewise find entire masses of ooze-adapted kelp, or colonies of fungus living in the morass. It's in and around those islands that you're going to find sentient beings who, against all odds (as per the usual standard in the Inner Planes), are able to eek out an existence in such a hostile location. I could see exotic farming communities growing immense plants that thrive on the nutrient rich environment. (Hehe...culinary delights from the Paraelemental Plane of Ooze!)

It's in that interplay between the Plane's tendency towards putrefying and decaying living materials into base components, and then resulting ooze giving way to the fertilizer that other things grow upon that's really the key to the Plane. Sort of a intra-planar Growth vs. Decay tension. At least it is in my mind.

I'd love to hear other folk's thoughts on the topic. I'll continue to pick at the idea as things occur to me.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

In addition to a strong theme of Growth vs Decay present, I could see another undercurrent of Ugliness vs Beauty emerging from the plane. In the section about Ooze in the Guide to the Inner Planes (p. 85), it mentions that in certain deep pockets in the plane, pressures create pearl-like gems (quiila) that fetch a high price elsewhere. These are gems that just can't be found elsewhere in the multiverse.

I'm not quite sure how you'd go about expanding that idea elsewhere in Ooze though. But I thought I should capture the idea before it slipped away.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

I am late to the party! Gasp!

Well, I am certainly on board for more renovating!

One of the things I wanted to address when I was doing the Inner Planes was the conceptual notions of an element. Elements are very physical things but they also have extremely symbolic meanings to many cultures and I believe this symbolism should manifest in at least parts of the Inner Planes.

The one trouble is there is no single underlying belief that wholly encompasses a given element. Therefore, the unity is based on the concrete rather than the abstract. Points are derived from something wholly neutral rather than a belief that affects everything on that plane. So as a result, you get a smattering of different beliefs that pervade a neutral plane. That's how I perceive it.

However, I think that makes a very interesting dynamic you can't get on the Outer Planes.

I like Growth vs. Decay. It's a good line to follow for the Ooze. Also, the idea of finding beauty where it's least expected is a helpful trait. I'm going to let these ideas stew for a little bit and see what I can come up with.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

I don't know why I picked Ooze to begin with, but it's certainly one of the planes that needs something done with it, and it seemed like it could be a fairly easy way to start getting a handle on how to tweak the Inner Planes.

One thing to consider is that the place is described as crawling with insects (maggots in particular) and worms. Maggots, at least in the real world, prefer to target dead flesh and leave living, healthy flesh alone. So what we perceive as being these disgusting, wriggling things that live off of dead and diseased tissue actually end up helping to prevent diseases from forming.

Worms, on the other hand, have a diet based around consuming rotting vegetation. Being familiar with gardening myself, I can always tell good soil from bad soil by paying attention to the number of worms. More worms = better soil, which means healthier plants.

Given the setting, the above wouldn't be universal of course. Corrupted maggots or worms that devour any and all living tissue they come upon could/would certainly be one of the many environmental hazards of Ooze.

As to conceptual notions and beliefs about Ooze...

Hmm...there's this association between poverty/squalor and grime of all sorts. The Hive in Sigil is described as having numerous portals that lead to Ooze, due to how dirty the entire ward is. Being dirty is association with having a lowly social status. The folks who end up living in and around Ooze might be social cast-offs. Thrown away by society in the same way that garbage is. Given that, I could see a very strong presence of the Bleakers on Ooze. Offering compassion is such an unwanted place would be right up their alley (not to mention that I bet a fair number of them end up getting pitched into a Ooze Portal after annoying some bashers in the Hive).

Ooze is a lowly place. Nobody ends up there purposely, but given the number of portals that spring up (pretty much wherever a large enough mound of garbage collects for long enough), some of the people who live in those mounds of garbage are eventually going to end up slipping through accidentally.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Bubbles! When rotting things decay, the stuff that's causing the decay gives off gas. These little bubbles of gas gather into large bubbles. Large bubbles + the potentially infinite size of a Plane = Large cavernous bubbles. It's hard for me to imagine any kind of sludge, ooze, muck or mire without also seeing bubbles of gas escaping from it, so it seems like it would be a natural feature of Ooze.

I see bubbles in Ooze acting in a similar manner to how air pockets and caverns behave in Earth, Salt or Mineral. They're places where interesting things tend to gather. They're also places that are fought over. While many bubbles are likely to contain toxic gasses, others are likely to contain breathable air (if somewhat smelly). Also, because Ooze's nature isn't immediately hostile to plant life, I could see a number of these bubbles filling up with their own peculiar eco-systems. Insect infested swamps, forests of fungi being tended by planar mycanids, jungles filled with ooze monkeys who hurl...well, you get the picture.

Entering or leaving a bubble always risks upsetting it's surface tension. Travellers who aren't careful might suddenly find that the bubble they've been making kip in for the past few days is leaking out all that precious air leaking out. Magical protections would probably be in place for some of the larger bubbles that support a decent population.

I'll keep plugging away at this, but already I'm seeing possibilities for how to do adventures in Ooze.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

There's a particular phenomenon in briny, northern latitude swamps which results in a submerged corpse being mummified. Searching through swamps (usually after peat), any number of bodies have been recovered. Oddly, it's usually just skin and tissue that's left. Bones end up being dissolved by the acidicness of the swamp. Given that, I could see an entire region of Ooze being filled with these floating, mummified corpses (possibly closer to the border with Salt). Maybe call it The Graveyard.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Doesn't The Lady use a conduit from Sigil to Ooze as a latrine?

This is interesting. I've just been planning an adventure in the plane of Ooze (2nd edit/house). So far I just did a search of the monster database for all the oozes, slimes, jellies, molds, puddings and fungi and similar creatures so I could populate the place and also any monster that has any kind of slime, mold or ooze attack form so I could create "Animental" forms of them - EG Paraelemental Aboleths and so on. And maybe a paraelemental Tannar'ri prince as the plane's ruler.

But this stuff is good. I also liek Pathguy's ideas.

~

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Yeah, Sigil's sewage regularly gets dumped into Ooze. I'm not sure that The Lady herself has ever been known to actually use a latrine though. Heheh...

In considering Ooze, remember that you can have more than just the oozes, jellies, slimes and such. It's entirely possible that you'll encounter muck dwelling fish and other bottom feeders. Likewise, you might find snails and other insects that clean. Heck, I could imagine an entire town living in a particularly large snail shell.

Really, I have to fight the urge to make Ooze overabundent with different sorts of life. In canon, the place is littered with pockets of all sorts of unpleasant substances and that doesn't really give with there being too much life around. It certainly seems like it should have more than as described in canon though, given the sheer amount of planar waste that ends up in the place.

And hey, if anybody has any ideas about what stuff to add that might not have been touched on yet, please speak up! I'm sure I'm being addle-coved about some of this stuff, and I much prefer the stuff that come out of the dynamic tension of a conversation, rather than stuff that I come up with on my own. So correct me and/or interject ideas of your own! Laughing out loud

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

I don't think an abundance of life is a bad thing for Ooze. Even pits of biological waste are teeming with some kind of life. Perhaps not an overabundance like you said, but an abundance is definitely worthwhile.

Also remember that Ooze isn't just waste and nasty. It also contains things like plain mud, silt, and so forth. Some of it may actually be very fertile, if very runny. There could be some odd farms and villages that actually make a reasonable living in some particularly nutrient-rich areas of Ooze.

A few ideas:

- Giant single-celled creatures swimming through the primordial goo and waste matter. These creatures are like dangerous oozes, only even less sentient and very dangerous.

- Dense forests and jungles of plants and/or fungi thriving on the waste patches or the healthy, nutritious soil.

- The Pearl Bed: A place where the friction of the ooze frequently coalesces into smooth pearls of various colors. The pearls are highly valuable, but fiercely guarded by some race of keepers (perhaps a new race? could be interesting). The Bed is also hard to find, either because of magic or by its location on the plane (supposedly it's near the border with Water). Still, a basher canny enough to find it and get away can make a good pile of jink selling the pearls.

Chant has it though that the keepers of the Pearl Bed imprison trespassers in the pearls. Nobody's ever been able to prove it but a lot of berks that run off looking for the Pearl Bed never come back. And a couple barmy sods claim they hear the pearls cry out sometimes.

Probably just a lot of screed. Who knows if there really is a Pearl Bed or if some addle-cove just made it up as part of a peel.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

As I think on this more and more, I could almost see Ooze reaching the same sort of cultural breadth of one of the primary elemental planes. For the most part, a cutter can move around with the same sort of ease as you would find in Water (although at a slower pace), as well as having to deal with making sure you can breathe. Outside of the breathing issue, there's no reason why you wouldn't find thriving, agricultural, Ooze-adapted communities. Heck, I could see planar mycanids and other "plant" people enjoying the heck out of the entire plane.

I see the main hazard of Ooze shifting away from finding cysts of acid or rampant disease, and more towards making sure something doesn't try to eat or decompose you. Also, given relatively high number of unwanted or destitute berks who end up on the plane, I could see the Dao maintaining a strong slaving presence here (even if the place does go against their usually lavish sensibilities).

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Definitely. There's no reason any of the Inner Planes (even Vacuum) can't have varied and exciting ecosystems and cultural development. These places are wholly infinite. It's all a matter of finding the right creatures and humanoids to put into the planes. Air is usually considered the most hospitable because the setting is written from a basically human perspective. To us, Air would definitely be the best, and Steam (another woefully underused plane) would probably be the second best. But Ooze, Magma, Ash, etc., are all perfectly capable of hosting a tremendous depth of life and civilization.

Okay, now I'm getting excited and I want to write up sites. Let's see if I can find the time to write up some sites and kingdoms and so on Laughing out loud

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Here's a place:

Spore
- Inhabited mostly by planar mycanids, though a handful of non-mycanids call Spore their home. The name Spore comes from the grey-green haze of fungal spores that permeate the air.
- A number of fungal mounds rise up throughout this particular bubble, growing out of a chunk of bark from some colossal tree. Each mound is large enough to be carved into a number of individual dwellings or into other needed buildings.
- A small clearing towards the center of the town hosts a number of buildings that have been carved out to function as an economic center. An inn, a tavern, a shop or two. These places cater towards travelers through Ooze, rather than the natives.
- Spread out beyond the edges of town, fields of mushrooms and other edible fungi can be found. While each harvest slowly eats away at the chunk of wood the town sits on, the mycanids are careful to make sure their home lasts for as long as possible.
- Ooze mephitis make great sport out of sneaking into the fields and eating as much as they can before dashing away. As a result, a number of sentries stand guard around the perimeter.
- Dark: A number of refugees who have been dumped into Ooze have taken up residence in Spore. There’s some resentment towards the mycanids, as they dole out only enough food to keep the people from starving. Recently, a human cutter named Rehnquist has been working the others refugees up, saying that the mushroom fields should be expanded to accommodate all comers. He’s ignorant of the delicate balance the mycanids are trying to maintain.

And an inspirational picture:

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

In trying to come up with structures and locations for Ooze, I'm really finding that most of the places that I come up with aren't permanent, as most places that end up in Ooze tend towards decaying. The village I outlined above will probably last a few more years at best and then everybody living there will have to relocate. There's a definite feeling of the non-Ooze natives living a semi-nomadic lifestyle. As a result, I'm seeing the potential for adventurers being hired to scout out new spots for a tribe/town trying relocate.

Anyway, here's one more location from me (it's rough, but I think it fits):

The Vine Webs
- The Vine Webs are an especially dense series of vines and vine-like plants that stretch out and cover many miles.
- New growths in the Webs typically grow in only one direction. These areas are known as the Snares, as they’re prone to catching and snaring anything which happens to be passing by, living or not. Ooze mephitis like hang around the Snares and feast on anything they gets caught in this manner.
- Further back into the older growth sections of the Webs, the vines grow thicker and denser, some even getting to be large enough to contain full fledged structures. Ambitious cutters sometimes even try to make kip is these areas.
- The oldest areas contain some of the thickest vine growths that are rotting through. As a result, large chunks of decaying plant matter clog the entire area, making it difficult to navigate through. It also makes for numerous hiding spots for potential predators.

With that, is there anything else that needs to be discussed? Is anything being overlooked that we need to address? Or can we turn our attention to one of the other planes? I'm really enjoying the creative process here and it looks like I'm finally going to be able to use some of these ideas in an actual game soon (finally)!

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

~
This stuff is great! You don't mind if I pinch it for my campaign? I love the Snail City idea and, yes, I was going to include molluscs among the para-animentals. And Mud Men, Moss men etc. There's a large number of suitable creatures (apart from oozes, jellies etc) such as those with a swamp terrain and various prime aquatic creatures like jellyfish.

I think the bubble idea is a definite runner. Many of them would contain methane or other noxious gases. Perhaps large bubbles may coalesce and create an explosion hazard to any settlements. The force of an explosion is amplified in water, so in Ooze it could be catastrophic. Forests of para-elemental kelp could produce oxygen, of course. This could even be harvested by any primes who have escaped their Imprisonment or otherwise ended up there.

The decaying, disease-ridden morass of filth giving way to clean, nutrifying humus or soil is great. This disease/decay versus fertility/growth duality suggests a transition between the energy planes to me. There may even be demi-planes of plants or pockets of forest or jungle the Druids would be proud of. Rooted in the ooze, taking up the water and minerals, giving out the gas. Burning with life!

Convection currents and eddies would flow, perhaps creating plane-wide "weather systems" or causing various forms of the element to collect together. Perhaps something as major as the Gulf Stream Drift or Atlantic Conveyer moving across the entire plane, from Negative to Positive. Stratified thermoclines or layers of different density? Minor but fairly stable drifts which can be used as rivers?

Perhaps some areas of more solid material are fed by these drifts and then begin to create their own gravity and attract more of the semi-rocky material to form islands or "planetoids", like the formation of accretion discs after the Big Bang?

As the inner planes are infinite, are they always a continuum, like Water being one gargantuan ocean with no sea bed or surface, or could there be planets with "Ooze space" between them?

There's a lot of stuff out there about humanoid characters, whether from the Prime or the Outer Planes, living as ex-patriot visitors or exiles in settlements of the inner planes, but what about the sentient natives? Are there para-elemental humanoid types with farms and villages? Is there even a "ground" with a sky of thinner, breathable (for them) Ooze? What magic would prime travellers need, apart from Airy Water or Water Breathing? Something to filter out the muck from the "atmosphere"?

Cheers

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Pinch away! I'm always thinking about stuff like this, kinda as a hobby, kinda as a distraction and a dash or two of actually wanting to make use of it myself. I enjoy the creative process and I enjoy standing back and looking at the fruits of my labors afterwards.

Hmm...native humanoids? Well, the only two listed as being native in canon are ooze sprites and mephits. Ooze sprites, as they're described in the PS MC 3, are actually a pretty potent race able to mind control others, but since they don't see nor consider any race other than themselves to be intelligent, there's a bit of a limit to how in-depth you could get with them.

As I mentioned up above, I see fungal and plant races as being somewhat important to the plane. They kinda highlight the main tension that's coming about in Ooze currently, with fungal-folk being representative of Decay and the plant-people representative of Growth. I could almost see a symbiotic type of relationship between the two.

Insect races that are oriented towards Ooze might also be appropriate. Maybe something like a worm with a cranium rat thing going on. The more of them that gather together, the smarter it gets. Maybe not, as that's better for some sort of monster.

Lastly, I could see certain varieties of lizard-folk being at home in Ooze. Troglodytes (or something equivalent), for instance, would probably not even be put off by most of the horrors that the plane puts forth.

As far as different landscapes in Ooze, your best bet for finding interesting areas is in the transitional zones. I see the Choking Gale area leading towards Steam as being a wide open, misty sea covered in all sorts of...unidentifiable materials. The Slag Marshes towards Mineral I see as opening up into literal marshes and swampland (complete with its own peculiar ecosystem).

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

The Choking Gates! Yes, I really need to read that 2E Inner Planes book. All I have is the 1E MoP, the Torment PC game and the various Planescape MC releases. I've toyed around with "peri-planes" and wondreed where Nuclear energy, Gravity and Magnetism would be and always though Ice ought to be a quasi-plane (steam is the opposite phase) with Mist between Air and Water, but don't want to mess with the canon too much. I'd have no where to put Salt!

Cheers

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

The whole "teeming with worms and maggots" thing doesn't really work so well for (most parts) of Ooze. Both still need oxygen, and that's not going to be plentiful (gaseous, dissolved, or otherwise) on Ooze. The oxygen level in the sludge will be extremely poor due to all those damned anaerobes (this won't be a problem for elemental-based beings or "x breathing" spells, but it will be a problem for mundane water-breathing creatures)

Also, more detail is needed on BwimbII, including her motives for pestering Ben-Hadar. Is she just lonely and trying to get anyone's attention, does she think that getting a reaction out of an Archomental will make her more "relevant", or does she possibly have the hots for Ben-Hadar (possibly due to his slobbish behavior?).

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

At this point I may be late to the discussion. Still, there are a few issues with what you suggest:
-The plane lacks everything a plant would need to grow other than fertilizers. Light, water, air... All of these are necessary for a plant to grow. Especially light.Which means a place where real plants are grown, like a farm, would require a pocket to radiance, or air, and some sort of water supply. I would guess that such a place would be extremely rare, and not permanent. The place would be fought for dominance constantly unless it is located in a remote place. You can, of course, say that these conditions are created by MAGIC! or the plants grown in Ooze do not require light or water (other than the planes own humidity). But then who would grow them? So: Fungi sounds OK, but plants are... A bit too much.
-I would like to raise the question that nobody seems to share: Do we really, REALLY want Ooze to be a place where our PCs would LIKE to go? The Ooze is, after all, the largest waste management facility in the entire multiverse. It is no different than the garbage yard in your town: it is the place where everybody needs but nobody wants to go. I would definitely not want to hear my PCs tell me they want to go to Ooze. But I would love to see their faces when I tell them, yep, that dude you were following just took a portal to Ooze. 'you follow him?
A little fluff:
"To say that nobody wants to come here doesn't mean nobody does. Fıor those with the equipment to survive and the stomach to handle it, the plane has a lot of opportunities.
See, Ooze is the place where the things that are thrown away some time go. Since one's garbage is another's treasure, there are a lot of treasure hunters in ooze. There are a few berks who got rich and famous from finding the semi mummified remnants of a long lost creature, but a wise cutter wouldn't count on that. Most make do with the parts and pieces which they can sell to the small, nomadic communities that "litter" the plane.
The famous fertilizers of Ooze are an important export commodity. They are very potent and limitless in supply, but hard to differentiate from the acidic, deadly matter of the rest of the plane. Some peelers just sell it to the buyers who don't know any better, and make a lot of jink. Even if the customer is angry, there is no way he is coming after him to the Ooze.
Another thing is the Fungi of the plane. It just seems to grow everywhere. About %99 percent of these are inedible, deadly poisonous, or attack a body on sight. However, the rest includes some forms impossible to find in other planes. Those with strange side effects, hallucinogenic to hypnotic to downright magic, are an important commodity of the plane. Worse yet, only an expert can separate the deadly from the life saving, so again, make sure you can trust your contact.
Finally there is the unique gems that form in the plane. I'm not sure just who would make a gift of them to his beloved, but it still fetches high prices on the planar market. Not that they are so rare here, they are just easily overseen in the heavy, slimy elemental substance."

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

In this post I will try to add some sites to the plane.

-The Flushers
Apparently some prime civilization has learned the dark of the planes and portals to allow them to outsource their waste management. By building large, cylindrical pipes that are anchored to the plane, they have connected their sewage system directly to ooze. Now, as if there wasn't enough garbage in the Ooze, they are adding some of their own into the mix. Thankfully they use water to flush their waste, which means that the exhaust of these pipes are actually cleaner than the rest of the plane. There are hundreds of these flushes, some small and some large, some all worn out from use and some that went out of commission centuries ago, and they are scattered around the plane towards the elemental water. A useful thing to know about this is that the flushes are completely stationary. They never move with the tides and rapids of the plane. All of these make the Flushes good places to settle on, which are what many non-elementals are doing. It may sound repulsive to outsiders, but that's because they haven't been in the plane long enough.
There is a barmy exiled spellslinger who lives under a particularly large and old Flush. He claims that he was the one who built the first flush. He tells everyone that the flushes are connected to the prime world through one way portals, and with the correct spell, they can be reversed. He's trying to find this spell to get himself to the other side. What he doesn't tell is why he was the first thing those primes flushed down.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Making underutilized planes more open to casual adventuring is the main focus of the planar renovation project. Ooze as it stands right now makes for a good candidate, given that canon all but tells people to avoid the place. The plane itself is described as being relatively devoid of anything that a PC might want to visit: No towns; only mephits, paraelementals or Ooze Sprites as the primary sentients (and none of those are particularly chatty); only vague notions of things being lost, discarded or imprisoned in the endless sludge. There just isn't much there based on how it's written up. It's addressing that absence of content that this thread is focused on.

So first, I can certainly drop the notion of there being masses of plants growing in the depths of Ooze. If there are any, they're either Ooze-adapted (deriving energy from a chemical source maybe) or they're there by the efforts of some third party. Massive fungal blooms and various molds, living slimes and such make much more sense in the context of the plane. This fits in with my earlier idea of there being a race of sentient fungi above and beyond the three known in canon.

However, long lasting elemental pockets of Radience might have some interesting environments surround them, including rampant plant growth. Likewise, a quickly dissipated pocket of elemental Lightning might generate a miniature genesis of life while it lasts, as the plane greedily eats it up. So I wouldn't discount plants entirely, but I think you're right in bringing up that they might be overstated earlier in the thread.

re: "teeming with worms and maggots". That's actually taken almost directly from the description of Ooze in the Inner Planes sourcebook, three paragraphs in (it really says "worms, insects, grubs" but maggots seemed to fit the bill). It certainly fits with the overall mood of the plane. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief when it comes to things living in the muck and mire.

I think we can get too literal in considering how the Inner Planes are set up. Most of the neat stuff going on in Earth is based around the non-Earth areas. Likewise, the interesting locations in Air are based around the many floating pockets of Earth or Water or whatnot. The environment of whichever plane we're considering should be thought of as an environmental backdrop, not as an absolute definition of what's possible.

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Now that I've finished

Now that I've finished reading the Ooze entry in the inner planes book, an idea came to my mind. The book suggests that there are many animentals in the plane, such as cats and dogs. Given the nature of the plane, and the proximity to water, I would think there would be far more numerous ooze fishes. Smaller fishes move in huge colonies, and may sweep a berk along if she gets caught in their midst. The larger ones, like whales, move like giant chunks of slimy mess, oblivious to their surroundings. Dolphin are eerily playful, seeming to think they are still as cute as they were in their home plane. Sharks, or swarms of piranhas pose a real threat. They can be impossible to notice before they come and bite you, and then it is already too late because of the countless disease and poisonous substances they carry.
Also not to be underestimated are the ooze of the plane. Notice every ooze gets its intelligence raised one level up while in the ooze, as well as full hp. Which means there are some forms of ooze that are very intelligent. Tanarri lord of ooze, Juiblex, also has a presence in the plane. It can be safe bet that there are rapidly growing, aggressive ooze communities in the plane. It can be that Juiblex is using the plane as a breeding ground for his version of super soldiers (intelligence and full hp oozes).
Finally there is the disease, poisons and acids aspect of the plane, which is so far only used as a means to deter players. Exactly the opposite however, each of these can draw a lot of interest from the right people.
-Choking Gale: Toxic vapors, good for all sorts of poisons and some of these vapors can be implemented to spells like cloudkill. They can also be distilled into fluids or powders. In the border of steam.
-Stagnant Sea: Towards the Salt, this area has acids that can even affect magical weapons and armor. Who in the multiverse wouldn't want some of that? Not only for sinister purposes too- I bet all kinds of jewelers and smiths would make use of these acids.
-Oasis of Filth: This is the boundary with dust, and it is one bad place to be in if you have a weak immune system. All kinds of diseases exist in this place and they contract even to paladins. Just think-Any power worth the "disease" or "plague" in his portfolio should have at least a small outpost here. Not the kind of places you would want to visit on your good day, but no day is good in ooze.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

""-I would like to raise the question that nobody seems to share: Do we really, REALLY want Ooze to be a place where our PCs would LIKE to go? The Ooze is, after all, the largest waste management facility in the entire multiverse. It is no different than the garbage yard in your town""

Actually, it is a little different. Planar hazards aside, I don't recall my local dump being ruled by a massive, amorphous, primordial being of great evil that hates everyone and everything (we're talking about Ghaunadaur here; his realm is on Ooze). I mean, at least the Princes of Elemental Evil aren't true powers. Also, the Ooze Mephits are the most annoying species of mephit known (unless you take up my ideas of censorship mephits, mime mephits, and singing telegram mephits into account). I'd avoid the place just for those two reasons alone...

Aik
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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Hmm - I read the entry in The Inner Planes last night and didn't see anything about it being a dark plane. Actually, I remember seeing that there was reasonable visibility.

It might be a lot like Water, where (IIRC) there's an ambient light source. Now sure - you'd need some gaps in the ooze to let things grow, but there's no reason that the plants couldn't live happily on this unexplained ambient light.

And yeah - I want Ooze to be somewhere that's interesting to visit. This thread has given me a lot of ideas along those lines. One of my characters in an upcoming game is going to be a witch - where better for her find strange herbs and such than in a garden in Ooze?

I'm imagining gigantic fungus which has curled around to form a hollow place inside, where other things can grow.

Besides - infinite Plane. There's plenty of room for the awful stuff about it to co-exist with nice stuff. An infinity of slime and acid is kinda boring - the only thing to do when you're there is to try and leave again. But cities in fungus towers and batshit-crazy gardens or forests - that's interesting in its own right.

Hmm - one odd thing about the description in The Inner Planes - those gnomes with their raft and the swamp area. Wouldn't Ooze be like Water - with just an endless lot of Ooze and no surface? How do you have swamps or sail or whatever on that? Swamp kind of implies that it has a surface... unless the whole area's in an air bubble of something, but that seems a bit silly.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Aik wrote:

Hmm - one odd thing about the description in The Inner Planes - those gnomes with their raft and the swamp area. Wouldn't Ooze be like Water - with just an endless lot of Ooze and no surface? How do you have swamps or sail or whatever on that? Swamp kind of implies that it has a surface... unless the whole area's in an air bubble of something, but that seems a bit silly.

First of all, think of an inner plane as a conical object. The H of this object is infinite, meaning you can never reach its base. This is the part where an inner plane is solid stuff of the same material called Core.... like Core Ice, Core Water, Core Ooze etc. As you travel inwards to the plane, ie. towards the base of the, you will have to dig, swim or fly your way through whatever material makes up that plane. However, since the plane is infinite in only one side, if you travel towards the sides of the plane, you will eventually reach boundaries. These are the areas that can be considered surfaces. For example, water shares a side with steam, and if you travel close enough to steam, the water will eventually become vaporized, making it a surface of sorts. Mineral/Ooze surface is like this, at these areas you can navigate the surface of ooze, instead of drowning in it.
(However, I would expect mineral side to be more solid than ooze. I don't know how they find the empty space to breath in their raft. It should be a submarine more than a raft.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Well, yeah, I understand that - I was thinking that it was weird that it was on the mineral side. On the Steam side I could see it working ... unless there are air pockets trapped between long bits of earth/minerals, which could make sense if air bubbles out from the ooze.

And for inspiration: This vision of Ooze reminds me of The Sea of Corruption from Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. Sure - it's kinda disgusting and absolutely lethal to humans for the most part, but that doesn't mean it isn't fantastic in its own way and that people can't live with it.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Like I mentioned above (and elsewhere), giving the Inner Planes a landscape doesn't necessarily have to be problematic nor against the nature of how the Inner Planes operate. In select locations, more oriented towards the transitional areas between planes, I could see actual environments.

Along the Ooze/Mineral or Ooze/Earth border - large caverns open up on fetid pools of stagnant...materials. On the Mineral side of things, you could get exotic, half-metallic plants sticking up out of the highly acidic and poisonous melange. On the Earth side, you could have oozing cavern walls and waterfalls of molasses-thick amber-like substances that harden the instant they hit something solid. That's a lot more evocative to me than just some vague notion of a place called the Slag Marshes (where it's just described as a sort of metallic paste with an airy atmosphere over the top of it, whatever that means) or the Muck Mire (filled with a molasses-thick substance that randomly hardens over things).

In describing these places, I'd far rather go for something that's memorable. Swimming through thick sludge to find an artifact that's been hardened in amber in the Muckmire isn't nearly as cool to me as hiring a team of Pech from Earth to carve out one of the solidified caverns of amber in the Muckmire to uncover that same artifact.

Likewise with other transitional zones. I always worry that folks end up getting too literal with thinking about how the Inner Planes operate. Yes, their primary element is their defining feature, but there should quite a few scattered elemental pockets all over each plane. I mean, even in the Inner Planes guide, elemental pockets range anywhere from a few feet across to areas the size of Earth (on average, they're usually only a few miles, but the potential is there for them to be much larger).

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

What you describe is certainly more inspiring than what is canon, and I really appreciate it. I also acknowledge the importance of various elemental pockets. I simply state that a)An adventure in a given inner plane should feel like that plane - not adventuring in the pocket of a different element. The PCs who visit, say, Ooze should feel they are in the ooze, so that when they do actually reach a safe or clean place, like a pocket of air, they are actually happy and relieved. And when they go back to their kip in Sigil they can really feel like they have visited ooze and can boast about it in a bar tale.
b) An adventure in the inner Planes is above all an adventure of survival against the raw forces of nature. I agree 100% that inner planes can host their own very complicated ecology, however it is probably extremely adapted to that environment, sometimes to the point of being hostile to outsiders. The players should come knowing this and be prepared.
As long as these two points are held, there is no reason why the greater part of an adventure in ooze can take place in a pocket of steam or smoke*.
*I mentioned those two because I think both need a lot of work as well.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

For a), I agree whole heartedly. Each plane should evoke it's own feel, even within an elemental pocket. And getting back to where you're making kip should earn you bragging rights (or at least an interesting story to tell).

For b) though. It can't *always* be 100% struggle 100% of the time. Some basic assumptions about being able to survive on the plane you're adventuring on should be there. Short of just being dumped there, you're not going to be adventuring on the plane of Fire without magical protection from fire. Likewise, with adventuring on Water or Ooze, stuff like being able to breathe long enough to explore/adventure should be assumed. If you're more concerned about staying alive moment to moment, then going on a regular adventure is going to be beyond your immediate focus.

Beyond that, once the basics of survival are assured, you can start getting into the specific hazards of each plane. Acid and disease pockets on Ooze for instance. But, again, if the PCs do any sort of fact checking before they get to the plane, even some of these more specific hazards shouldn't pose too much of a threat.

I hope you see what I'm trying to get at. I'm not trying to discount the survival aspect on the Inner Planes, but to make them compelling locations to explore, adventure and/or live on, an expectation of prolonged survival should be the starting point, not the focus.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

I get it and I think we have an agreement!
Now I will throw some undeveloped ideas for some locales.
-What would a pocket of fire in Ooze would look like? Since the plane is full of organic material, it would burn and consume everything that comes near it, creating a massive, ever expanding sphere of ash, smoke and fire around the main pocket. Such a place could be a safe haven for all manner of fire oriented beings, while it would be potentially deadly for other native creatures.
-A particularly loathsome golden lord by the nickname of the Marquis keeps an enormous estate in a secluded part of the paraplane. There he can indulge in his vilest fantasies with a select circle of his friends and other, willing and unwilling initiates. He prefers the location for both its unbearably disgusting nature, which he somehow enjoys, and the fact that there is no higher authority or moral basis he must adhere to in there. Needless to say there is a two way portal to Sigil in the core of his property.
-There could a guy who is trying to find cures to many diseases, some common and some not, using ooze as a base. He tries to isolate the disease causing organisms and study them. His main form of study is infecting himself... And his main cure is trying possible substances to cure the effects. As a result he is almost always infected with lots of different diseases, some even unidentified. He is a helpful cutter who doesnt turn down visitors for a night's stay in his cramped submarine like ship... Provided they volunteer to help him in his rearch by becoming test subjects. He is said to be a bleaker once, but everyone who's seen him say he is way too devoted to his work to ever have been a cabal. He claims to have found vaccines and cures for many diseases, which he will share. Another thing: His body has grown a super immune system from decades of experiments. Most diseases simply don't effect him anymore and those that do usually do not stay on for very long.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Evil wrote:
-What would a pocket of fire in Ooze would look like? Since the plane is full of organic material, it would burn and consume everything that comes near it, creating a massive, ever expanding sphere of ash, smoke and fire around the main pocket. Such a place could be a safe haven for all manner of fire oriented beings, while it would be potentially deadly for other native creatures.

With Ooze being a confluence of Earth and Water, I could see a pocket of Fire being maybe being something like a region of hot bubbling mud and oozes at the edges that gradually dry out as one approaches the source of Fire. At some point, you'd have those regions of ash, smoke and fire.

It's a place that probably wouldn't be frequented by many natives though, as the region has a bad tendency to fire (as in, baked in a kiln) many of the natives. A particularly enterprising (insert appropriate elemental type here) has even taken to luring in various anielementals and other Ooze creatures, and then shipping the dried out victims off-plane as highly prized and realistic terracotta statues.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

In an old campaign I had a cager merchant who imported goods exclusively from Ooze. Things like glue, fertiliser, edible jellies, soaps, sealant, various petrochemical type products. It's a rich if unappealing plane, and I can see it being exploited heavily by quasi-industrial civilisations.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

I like the idea of distinct regions with the inner planes, depending on the proximity of a border with another plane.

Silty Bottom,-
Where vast catfish and other scavengers glean the things which settle down from the life filled thriving seas of Elemental Water.

Clay Zone- Nearer to Elemental Earth the ooze gets heavier, alowing tunnels which will stay open, for a while. Here are Dao Slave gangs travelling towards Core Ooze, Water, Salt or Steam where they capture mephits and bizarre animentals.

Core Ooze- Where Bwinb used to rule. endless ooze with pockets of other elements, or turf that is much like the other regions mentioned here, all mixed together.

Rot- Near the border with Negative Material, here are the dangerous pockets of disease, acids, and the largest and most dangerous slimes, jellies, puddings and oozes.

Growth- Near the border with Positive Material. The wholesome ooze in this region gives life to the plant life which helpes to shelter sentient beings and small planar communities.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

^^There are ALREADY border regions in the canon. There is no need to make new ones; that will just confuse people and conflict with Canon. What is needed now is to expand upon the border regions. Some of them are understandably pure inhostpitable to anything not native to ooze, and others are just plain inhospitable to everything (such as the border region between salt and ooze)

They are:

Core Ooze- pure ooze. BwimbII's fortress (okay, Bwimb's fortress) is located here towards the border with the Choking Gale, and the Trash Heap is located towards the Oasis of Filth, in the direction of the Muckmire. Gelatinous, putrid goo that smells like Essence of Florida Roadkill (WITHOUT the maggots or other bugs that eat the smelliest bits first)

Oasis of Filth (dust)- It's a semi-congealed "almost organic" place is teeming with disease. Badly.

Stagnant Sea (salt)- Ooze becomes thick and briny, eventually becoming caustic enough to corrode metal. As you can probably imagine, not a whole lot lives here. Anything of the aquatic or water subtypes finds the brine dangerous, creatures of the earth subtype corrode into nothingness, and creatures from salt can't tolerate the acid.

Bile Sea (water)- Water becomes green and caustic. Muck clings to the flesh and burns like acid.

Choking Gale (steam)- Roiling clouds of toxic vapor and strong winds.

Slag Marshes (mineral)- Gnome Home is here, obviously. It's floating pretty close to the Muckmire. Morass of heavy, metallic paste with an atmosphere over the top. A silvery, pussy weed called ioungis grows here, and it's poisonous to the touch.

Muckmire (earth)- Ooze takes on a consistency of molases. The muck hardening into compacted soil around the planewalker is a hazard.

Then of course there are the border regions of other planes with Ooze. What I just described were the ones on the Ooze side. Now for the ones on other sides.

Oasis of Filth (dust): not described. Obviously similar to the region of the same name on the Ooze end.

Stagnant Sea (salt): On the salt side, it starts up as crumbling, brittle tunnels and such of salt, and soon breaks up into a thick, brackish bog. Eventually (towards the border with the Ooze region of the same name) it becomes incredibly caustic.

Realm of Cloying Fear (steam): thick atmosphere of oily, gag-inducing pasty vapors

Sparklemire (mineral): subterranean sea of mud teeming with floating, razor-sharp gems. Swimmers take slashing damage each round while here.

""-What would a pocket of fire in Ooze would look like? Since the plane is full of organic material, it would burn and consume everything that comes near it, creating a massive, ever expanding sphere of ash, smoke and fire around the main pocket. Such a place could be a safe haven for all manner of fire oriented beings, while it would be potentially deadly for other native creatures.""

Not everything in Ooze is organic. Remember, Ooze does not just signify slime and rotting organic gunk, it also signifies MUD.
This means that in some pockets, the fire is likely to bake the mud into clay (and yes, watery clay perfectly captures the embodiment of ooze. Trust me, I've worked with the stuff as an artist, and found it at the base of a trickling waterfall in the wild.)

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Actually, I did just think of a good reason to go to this plane.
Ooze not only is the plane of ooze, slime, and mud, but also acid (this was particularly played out in 3x). As such, this would be the place that an artifact that can only be destroyed by the strongest of acids would need to be taken.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

Hmm, what if here you played up the Plane of Ooze as a possible source of life by focusing on the whole "primordial stew" bit? Like, where the Plane of Ooze meets the Positive Material Plane?

You could have varying bits of slime forming and animating to resemble the earliest stages of life. Maybe they would spontaneously evolve and devolve into life at various stages of development in the biological history of life, depending on how close they would border to other planes?

Edit: This gives me another idea. If the plane of ooze is the possible source of life, that knowledge of the original spawning ground would be useful to quite a lot of people. Just imagine the Godsmen (or perhaps the Mind's Eye?) wanting to get a lock on where we all came from? The common seed from where all mortal life as we know it came from.

And of course, they'd also likely want to see if they could shape the primordial stew and cause it to evolve faster. Maybe they'd have some kind of great fortress on the plane of ooze that was basically like a great pseudo-scientific (maybe alchemical?) lab. Where they could sift through different ooze samples looking for that ever elusive true primordial stew?

I could see a Doomguard (or several) infiltrating the Godsmen alchemy fortress to get into some mischief. Maybe they want to figure out how the primordial stew works so they can learn how to break it down? Or, perhaps more insidiously, they're helping the Godsmen evolve the ooze more quickly for their own purposes. After all, the Godsmen themselves believe that once everybody's evolved as much they can, then the multiverse has fulfilled its purpose and it “closes up shop”. That might sound like the ultimate entropy to some Doomguard: the end of the multiverse itself!

To fulfill this ultimate entropy, maybe these Doomguard infiltrators intend on creating a strain of the primordial goo that will help everybody instantly evolve to their “maximum peak”. Problem is, the tranwro4mq5ion may cause a lot of harm and kill off more than a few along the way.

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Re: Planar Renovation Project: Paraelemental Plane of Ooze

One of the problems with Ooze (can't remember if it was covered in this topic or another) is that adventurers have little reason or desire to go here. I can think of at least two reasons to rectify that:

--One of the major resources of Ooze is likely to be fossil fuels-- different types of coal, crude oil, and some types of fossiliferous metamorphic stone. One possibility is that the characters find a machine on Acheron's second layer that is integral for their quest, but presently it doesn't work, because it either possesses a steam engine, or, better yet, it requires oil (obviously this wouldn't involve 100% realism since in reality, the oil would need to be processed to remove impurities)

--The Paraelemental plane also consists of muds and clays in addition to organic sludge. Some of these clays and muds may possess healing and other powers.

--Bear in mind that the Paraelemental plane is also the plane of acid, and is the reason for the association between acid "energy" and elemental Earth.

--Agents of the Oinoloth come to Ooze seeking new diseases. The PCs would need to thwart this.

--One of the silly adventure seeds I came up with in my *as of yet unposted* Inner Plane Adventure Seed list involves a rich merchant or similar subject who has a quest item needed by the PCs. He agrees to give it to them, so long as they retrieve his ring (a family heirloom) that he accidentally flushed down the latrine (one of those fancy ones which have portals to the Paraelemental Plane of Ooze at the bottom). Unfortunately, once the PCs get there, the ring has already been claimed by an ooze paraelemental who seems to be channeling Gollum (except that he says "precious shiny" instead of "my precious")

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