I need a chart for a game I'm in that shows which planes are which for enhancing/limiting/etc. which schools of magic and how.
There's the one in 2e, but it talks about levels and such, not feats, obviously.
Edit: If none is extant, I could work on one with my DM.
The Manual of the Planes describes the magic traits for each plane as well as general guidelines for how magic reacts on different planes.
For instance, page 32 lists spells by category, such as Ethereal Plane Spells, which can't be cast in the Outer Planes because they lack a connection to the Ethereal. However, most Outer Planes are described as having the "normal" magic trait otherwise.
The Planar Handbook lists the magic traits specific to Sigil (pg. 142). In addition to no Ethereal spells (like other Outer Planes) you can't use any spells that summon creatures into or away from Sigil. No Gate, Plane Shift or astral prohjection spells for example.
If you'd like I can type up a quick chart of the planar magic traits described in the Manual of the Planes.
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Sorry Jachra, i'll have to step in here. hi I'm The DM Jachra was talking about. This being Planescape, I believe that we should concider the manual of the planes (perhaps not null in void) a secondary source. after all, in Planescape nothing works the same as in other planes. Planescape should be it's own entity not bound up with the D&D sourcebooks. I'm working on a new book for the sight called "Melvin's Oddities of the Planes" I want to pull together all of the informationb that is not in PDF form right now so that its all in one place for all to read. Jachra and I were talking about this. For the inner planes and outer planes, i think we should work on all of it, to pull it all together and make certain it works neatly. (ehem* excuse my spelling and grammar please.)
In the long run Jachra and I would be very greatful for any help.
Actually, this has been bugging me for a while, too. Working purely from memory, as I am wont to do sometimes, I often mix up what was true for Planescape and what I read in Manual of the Planes. I prefer to go with the original setting rules as often as possible, and I believe that most of the magic system can be converted in a much closer fashion than MoP did.
One thing that always gets me is, since the transitive planes work very differently in Planescape than they do in MoP, how exactly are items such as bags of holding or portable holes affected when taken to the ethereal or the astral when using 2e rules?
They rely on extra spatial dimensions, so they don't work on the Astral Plane (which has no spatial dimensions at all). They work fine in the Ethereal. See The Planewalker's Handbook, page 105. The rule appears elsewhere, but that book's a particularly convenient resource.
Knowing the broad planar magic traits is fine, but in PS2e there were rules like: on Carceri, casting any divination spell required a material component of "the blood of a slain comrade"! (With the alternative of "a pint of your own blood." Better from some points of view...) Rules like that were really evocative and helped shape the mood of the plane. Did anything like that make the crossover to 3.5 in Manual of the Planes or Planar Handbook, and/or are such rules intended to be in PSCS Chapter 8?
Yeah, I noticed.
My plan was to cull sources from the 2e books, specific and general, and to use the Manual of the Planes from 3.5e as a reference for ideas for conversion.
Draigon, my DM for one game I'm in, is vehemently against the Manual of the Planes, but if it makes my job easier I don't really care. ;D
i'm not THAT agianst the manual. i think it simplifies to much. the Manual is great for general reference but as anyone knows PLANESAPE was ANYTHING but general.
Meaning it's still useful as a reference text.
Regardless, he and I will get to work.
It's been since February and no updates on the Planescape-esque planar effects on magic conversion document (hopefully in PDF or at least word).Is it forthcoming?. Hate what they did with planes and magic in the Manual of the Planes. Not enough flavor and punch!......I for one am quite excited for any magic and planar effects conversion info from PS2e to PS3.5.
Those odd and bazaar planar quirks are what made much of planescape's unique feel!
Long Ramble WARNING.
I haven't yet read the magic chapter myself, so I might be spamming.
I've been bugging my DM for some time to convert to "Planewalker" rules, but he has started considering it just recently.
Considering magic, Wizards of the Coast have really oversimplified and dumbed down the Elemental Paths in 3.5 ED, tying them to :shock: DAMAGE :shock: descriptors. I'm rambling about Elemental Savant prestige class.
This even doesn't consider some obviously elemental spells (water breathing,gust of wind, stone fists watchama' call it etc.) but it supports the mechanics :x .
It would have been much more logical to create list of spells for each element, but it wouldn't work with their streamlining mechanics :cry: .
It's not of a big problem when you're playing with 3E rules from the beginning of character creation, but it becomes a problem when converting them from 2nd ED.
And this really bothers me on the intelligence level:
-> a spell called "Boreal Wind" is actually a water spell (when did D&D become a realistic, yeah right setting and magic must be SF_ized and un-magicked)
This really ticks me off. Well I can live without it, it's generally very characterful and cool, but not a powerful spell(it's from Frostburn book).
For the good will of myself I could never bring myself to change its descriptor into electrical with Energy Substitution.
The other thing is the Elemental Savant class in 3.5 edition, they've additionally ruined it by limiting Energy Substitution to the chosen elkement only, stripping one spellcaster level, removing one bonus from Elemental focus and everything for a measly +5 energy resistance, from which you gain immunity at the final level.
They've did it to other prestige classes like Dragon Disciple.
I(savant) and another player(draco' disciple) haven't converted our prestige classes to 2.0, because the old prestige classes work perfect in 3.5 and aren't unbalanced.
The best balancing was did in PHB spells(for the most part), because mage was too powerful when compared to other classes.
I'll try to get a permission to house rule all of the so called Energy (aka elemental magic) based spells and I'll share my ideas in The Hall of Records.
There are exactly three different "Killy" avatars on this thread.
Sorry for this observation oriented spam, but I had to.
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at with the elemental tags. "Cold" is the "energy form" of elemental water; it's what does damage in a water spell. Other spells that don't do damage are still water spells; the orison "Create Water" is a water spell, as is "Water Walk." "Bless Water" isn't, but, well, I can't say much about that.
To be sure, a spell by the name of "Boreal Wind" sounds much more like an air spell than a water-based spell -- I assume it has the Cold descriptor? And yes, energy substitution can be counterintuitive. I think I recall being told that a cold-substituted fireball still sets things on fire!
As we're doing the PS3e conversion ourselves, we have a fair bit of leeway on the matter. However, few planes had much effect on elemental conjurations, though all had the effect that summoned elementals were actually pseudoelementals, made of the aligned stuff of the plane. (No Ethereal in the Great Ring to summon them from, y'know.) Anyway, "extra dice of damage for spells with the Fire descriptor on Avernus" is a rule less interesting to me than an effect like "spells of the Illusion school do not function on Mechanus." :^)
And just for the heck of it, let's dig out the 2e sourcebooks and take a look at the planes. I'm looking here at the Player's Guides in the Planes of Conflict boxed set. I've tried to translate the conditions listed there into 3e terms.
Beastlands:
"Spells controlling air or weather" fail -- I would recommend Control Weather, anything with the Air descriptor, or any spell with "storm," "fog," or "cloud" in the name, at a minimum, with the GM encouraged to look on the matter as broadly as the mortai would (since they're the ones doing the impeding). Fire spells are enhanced on Krigala (I suggest Empower Spell) and impeded on Karasuthra. Spells with the Water and Earth (and thus probably Cold and Acid) descriptors are enhanced near large quantities of the appropriate element. I think it would be evocative to distinguish between the Water and Cold descriptors, and likewise Earth and Acid, so that Water spells function better near Oceanus but a Cold spell works better in an icy region of the plane, and an Earth spell works better near a cliff while an Acid spell works better near, say, a giant ant nest.
Summonings only summon natives of the plane (not even neighboring planes). . . and they aren't controlled by the spell, only summoned. Indeed, Enchantment spells designed to work on animals (a good clue would be the word "animal" in the name) fail on animal residents of the Beastlands -- remember, they're intelligent here.
Magical flight (even feather fall) does not function; flight must be natural. Commune fails if the being to be contacted is off the Beastlands. So does Contact Other Plane. Necromancy spells are at -1 to caster level.
Spell keys: natural items. Rock crystal or quartz for enchantments, smoke from a fire or blown leaves for air or fly spells; silver ore for off-plane divinations; a bone from the creature type to be affected for necromancy; etc.
Bytopia:
Conjurations and summonings are limited: they can only create or summon items and creatures that already exist on the plane, naturally or via someone's elbow grease. Black tentacles is a no; Wall of Iron is okay... unless someone destroys all iron walls on Bytopia! If a mage or psionic is fond of using minor creation to make certain items, he might want to bring permanent samples to Bytopia and leave them in a safe place, if he can plan ahead.
Divination spells are limited; they require a material component found on the plane, either a natural element (a pool of water to scry in) or equipment manufactured on Bytopia, by Bytopians.
Necromantic effects using positive energy are enhanced (I suggest Empower Spell); those channeling negative energy are "diminished," which meant that none above 4th level can be used at all. There was also another effect of a school being diminished, which, alas, I can't call to mind at the moment.
Elemental spells with a range of Long or longer are impeded; any spells with an elemental tag are also enhanced (+1 to caster level) on Shurrock.
Spell keys: few. A mage can get around the elemental impedance by symbolically mimicking the act of the spell in miniature, such as breaking ground himself with a shovel for move earth.
Elysium:
Summonings and compulsions don't work on the natives, so summonings can only call creatures from neighboring planes, and nonnative creatures (such as the PCs) currently on Elysium... and those of good alignment get +4 to resist, if the spell allows a saving throw. Since Bless is now a compulsion effect, I strongly recommend that this be changed to allowing such spells to work if the natives so choose -- I'm sure Elysium wouldn't object to someone getting blessed! Conjured pseudoelementals are not controlled, but are good in alignment.
Glamers that work against scrying (false vision, magic aura, misdirection, phantom trap, screen, and those from other sources) fail automatically. So do necromancy spells that channel negative energy; and there is a chance (1 or 2 on 1d6) that the spell rebounds on the caster. Spells with the Water (and possibly Cold, though then again, this is Elysium -- maybe not) descriptor are enhanced on Thalasia. I suggest Maximize.
Spell keys: Completely individual. If you need one, you'll probably come across it.
Eyeing Sovelior and Sage's SRD, I see it describes two broad categories of magic in the Inner Planes: enhanced and impeded. You can see the specifics there, but in general, a plane's element is enhanced (spells are cast as if with a metamagic feat, such as Maximize, Empower or Enlarge) and its opposition element is impeded (caster must make a Spellcraft check of DC 20 + spell level or spell fails). A few additional effects occur on specific planes. The Astral Plane subjects all spells to Quicken, and the plane of Shadow has some specific effects on Shadow spells and Light evocations.
I believe no resource presently exists for the magic of the Outer Planes, but I'd be happy to help work on such a project -- the Outer Planes have so much more room for interesting effects available. I've got the 2e sources, presuming that's what people are using as the source material. There's little 3.5 material that I can see in a glance around the Web... planewalker here has one entry on power keys using 3.5 terminology for alignments, but nothing on spell keys or the effects of specific planes.
This would presumably be an important part of the PSCS Chapter 8 release... any editors want to let us know the status of this bit in that project?