I know it is alleged that if an Outsider is killed under certain circustances, it perishes forever! I don't like this rule much, and assume that the deceased being migrates to yet another plane or planes currently unknown... what do YOU think?
Permanent death?
Mon, 2007-07-09 19:30
#1
Permanent death?
Mon, 2007-07-09 19:56
#3
Permanent death?
I know it is alleged that if an Outsider is killed under certain circustances, it perishes forever!
I like this rule for one main reason over all: It makes petitioners want to stay home.
Imagine how bad the multiverse could get with lots of petitioners running around on their gods' errands with no fear of death...after all, they've SEEN the afterlife and don't have the primers' fears of death. But true death...that's scary for even the happiest petitioner who loves his god.
Tue, 2007-07-10 04:17
#4
Permanent death?
That is bit of paradox since all fiends (most start as petitioners) are permanetly dead if slain at home plane. So they are more nervous at home than when they are abroad.
Also there are some planar battlefields that are so bloody that death there is final for fiends (like one in Gray Waste).
There is one other way of final death for outsiders is stated in book "Faces of Evil": outsider flesh (or some vital organs) must be eaten before corpse wanishes or decomposes. (there is even picture of adveturers that roast dretch).
Tue, 2007-07-10 15:54
#5
Permanent death?
That is bit of paradox since all fiends (most start as petitioners) are permanetly dead if slain at home plane. So they are more nervous at home than when they are abroad.
Fiends start as petitioners, but become outsiders during their rise in rank (even to lesser fiend status). Petitioners of a certain god aren't scared at home, because his god can just absorb/raise/slay him on a whim anyway, and killing a petitioner in his home realm may do nothing but bring you to a power's attention (right after he resurrects the poor sod you 'kilt.') Remember, the power can do anything in his own realm. So a petitioner at home is safe, even if they serve an evil god.
Fiends, on the other hand, as well as outsiders for good alignment, are outsiders in the truest sense. They function away from home, and return home when slain. Only on their home plane are they truely in danger of true death, making them want to spread out and perform deeds for good or ill in the Great Ring.
So it all balances out. Petitioners stay home, and outsiders roam around the Ring (or at least protect themselves more stringently back 'ome 
).
Tue, 2007-07-10 18:07
#6
final death
What I was getting at is that I think it's kind of silly to establish that a mortal being can die and survive as a petitioner on the Outer Planes, but if he, she or it dies AGAIN... it's all over! Seems kind of wasteful... I still think that all those "dead" souls are moving on to another level of existance, maybe a whole new set of planes nobody's heard of yet... of course, this would raise the question of why nobody's ever come BACK from there, but hey... And my question mentioned Outsiders, but the principle would apply to any "permanently-dead" being of whatever origin... The Tome Of Magic kind of addresses it in the form of Vestiges, but I assume not every creature permanently slain becomes one of those!
Wed, 2007-07-11 01:43
#7
Permanent death?
You know old saying: "What goes around, comes around".
Most Fiends are basicaly evil souls (petitioners) with bodies created from planar fabric and energy of plane that maches their aligment. So when they die on home plane death is permanent becaouse planar enegy of their bodies finaly returns to the source that spawned them. (It was your choise to spend eternity fighting now it is time to pay the music).
What happens to their souls? Well, if you are in fawor of reincarnation and karma, maybe their souls are returned to prime and start over again (or they revert to most basic form of fiend like mane or lemure).
Also there is allways exeption to rules: modrons (if you teat them as outsiders not as constructs) their energy allways reform in one shape or another, also there are manes who allways reform every time they are slain (even in Abyss).
Wed, 2007-07-11 10:14
#8
Permanent death?
Curonost aside (a baernaloth plot if ever there was one), I think their minds survive as parts of their home plane - living landscapes, in some cases. It's every petitioner's destiny to eventually become one with its home plane, or its god. One day the gestalt minds that are the planes of existence will evolve into something still greater.
A true resurrection spell can bring just about anything back (though it doesn't seem to be able to replace divine ranks).
Wed, 2007-07-11 14:50
#9
Permanent death?
Seems kind of wasteful... I still think that all those "dead" souls are moving on to another level of existance, maybe a whole new set of planes nobody's heard of yet...
I know some sods in the Mortuary who'd like to talk to you about your philosophical leanings.
Fri, 2007-07-20 17:33
#10
Oblivion
In Marvel Comics, it was revealed that if a person was wiped out of existence, he or she actually ended up in the realm of an cosmic being named Oblivion (this happened to Quazar when he tried to use the Ultimate Nullifier on the Magus and it backfired...!)
Sun, 2007-07-29 09:31
#11
Permanent death?
I believe either Spell Compendium or Complete Champion have a spell to resurrect Outsiders.
Sun, 2007-07-29 12:14
#12
Permanent death?
I believe either Spell Compendium or Complete Champion have a spell to resurrect Outsiders.
Revive outsider. In the Manual of the Planes it was 6th level, I'm not sure if that changed in its update. I think it's a silly spell that heavily betrays part of the flavour of outsiders. I suspect it was made to allow hound archon PCs more playable (because, of course, all players feel that when their characters die, they have some right to resurrection).
Mon, 2007-07-30 19:10
#13
Raise Outsider
Hmm... I forgot about that spell! Still, it has a chance to fail, right?
Well if you're using Beyond Countless Doors the planar book written by some of the Planescape writers, but not a part of Planescape canon at all, then there is the plane of Curnorost where dead celestials go...