Pelion

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Palomides's picture
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Pelion

I'm wrapping up my latest stretch of Planescape reading. But I have a handful of remaining questions that I'm going to bring up for the next few days.

The first one concerns Pelion, the third layer of Arborea. It is a desert realm of white sand and forgotten pantheons.

I realize that this was probably left vague intentionally just to be evocative (which I think it is); but I was curious if anyone had any visions or ideas of how to use this layer.
Was it once a lush realm, or has it always been a desert?

Did the residents die off or was the place abandoned? Either way, why did this happen?

Is the layer dying or fading away? Was it stripped of its resources? (In which case, who took them and where were they taken?)

Can the layer be restored? (By either bringing back the old occupants or an occupation by new beings?)

Aside from Nephythys (who remains), who used to live here?
The Egyptian gods under Ptah (and if so, why did they move?)
Was it home to proto-Beastlords before they moved next door?
Was it home to an alien or unheard of pantheon (in which case, what ideas do people have for this)?

Or is it rather an intended "graveyard" layer where titans go to die? Perhaps it is the place where sweet memories go to die?

Does the sense of lingering power that one feels on this layer imply anything?

ripvanwormer's picture
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Re: Pelion

It's hinted that there was once a third major pantheon in Arborea (besides the Olympians and Seldarine), and when they departed the layer of Pelion turned to dust.

Dead Gods seems to indicate that whatever gods once ruled Pelion had possession of the True Words, the vocabulary that defines all of creation, which would suggest they were rather more important than most pantheons.

It is the graveyard of titans, but I don't think it was intended to be that way. Most likely it was never originally intended that titans should die at all, and this began happening only after the overthrow of Chronus. Pelion was probably the place where the titans were originally born/created back when the layer was lush and alive, and they're unconsciously returning to their place of birth.

Pelion was also probably the origin of the eladrin race, where a fallen celestial conjured them from dust and its dying dreams.

I considered that eons ago, Arborea had four elemental layers. Ossa is Water, of course, Pelion of the dust and snow is Air, Olympus was Earth, and Muspelheim was originally Arborea's plane of Fire before it slid over into Ysgard after the elf/giant wars.

You could also say that Ysgard's first layer was the realm of Air, Pelion was Earth (since crumbled to dust), and Olympus was Wood.

If Arborea is the plane of passion, its three layers are passion as it is experienced, passion as it is remembered, and passion forgotten.

As for whether or not Pelion can be brought back to life, I would never say never, but in general I think entropy can't be reversed. What's dead is dead, and being dead is an intrinsic part of the layer's theme now. It'd be easier to add a new living layer to the plane than to revivify an old one. Perhaps by combining it with Ossa it could have enough water to thrive. If the long-lost pantheon of Pelion were to come back, they could probably resurrect it with the True Words. Actually, anyone who had access to all of the True Words could probably resurrect Pelion, or do pretty much whatever else they wanted.

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Re: Pelion

ripvanwormer wrote:

If Arborea is the plane of passion, its three layers are passion as it is experienced, passion as it is remembered, and passion forgotten.

I've always been positevely fascinated by Pelion and its long forgotten mysteries as well. I like it as location for adventures, but I was just thinking in the last days how can Pelion stick to the rest of Arborea, without moving to a less chaotic Plane. I was about to populate it with bands of "post-atomic" wanderers, a sort of Mad Max stuff. Not evil but chaotic enough to let Pelion stay in Arborea.

But the idea of "passion forgotten" is intriguing.... The original Pantheon was formed by gods more passionate than the Olympians? Sensates are roaming the plane to find their ruins? In my vision the rest of the True Words are connected more to "discover" and "experience" the Multiverse than sheer power...

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ripvanwormer's picture
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Re: Pelion

Quote:
how can Pelion stick to the rest of Arborea, without moving to a less chaotic Plane

It's a place of sandstorms, snowstorms, bralani barbarians, and nomadic Athasian elves. It seems as chaotic as any of the other layers to me.

Jem
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Re: Pelion

If I understand correctly, Pelion is dying due to the lingering effects of the Last Word, a killing power on the order of true names, which Orcus used to go around killing a few gods. If Dead Gods has already happened in your campaign, I don't know what happens next; perhaps the Word has been removed and the layer can survive or fail on its own.

Perhaps, if Pelion represents the most intense of the passion of Arborea, it does so in the way of the most intense passions: briefly and unpredictably. A desert blooms after a rain -- maybe what Pelion needs to revive itself is a storm, with the last one having happened so long ago that the last Bloom has passed beyond all but the longest memories. If you want to make an adventure out of it, PCs could try finding the control source for the Thalastrom, the storm wreaking havoc on the fourth layer of Elysium (they'll need to defeat the monsters who are driving it), and steer it across the Beastlands to let it peter out on Pelion.

Alternatively, PCs could try finding a way to extend a branch of Oceanus here, giving the layer a long, Nile-like strip of green. (Has it come there before, but been dammed away through some subtle work of fiends?) Maybe it could inundate random valleys at unpredictable times, causing large-scale migrations of the planar population to follow the fertile area.

Without changing Pelion this drastically, there is another theme that could be played up here: the notion of scouring, which the winds and sandstorms embody. Pelion could be a place to go to be cleansed. There's a lovely monologue from The Ten Commandments that suits it perfectly:

Quote:
Into the blistering wilderness of Shur, the man who walked with kings now walks alone. Torn from the pinnacle of royal power, stripped of all rank and earthly wealth, a forsaken man without a country, without a hope, his soul in turmoil like the hot winds and raging sands that lash him with the fury of a taskmaster's whip. He is driven forward, always forward, by a god unknown, toward a land unseen... into the molten wilderness of sin, where granite sentinels stand as towers of living death to bar his way. Each night brings the black embrace of loneliness. In the mocking whisper of the wind, he hears the echoing voices of the dark... Moses! Moses! Moses! Moses! His tortured mind wondering if they call the memory of past triumphs or wail foreboding of disasters yet to come or whether the desert's hot breath has melted his reason into madness. He cannot cool the burning kiss of thirst upon his lips nor shade the scorching fury of the sun. All about is desolation. He can neither bless nor curse the power that moves him, for he does not know from where it comes. Learning that it can be more terrible to live than to die, he is driven onward through the burning crucible of desert, where holy men and prophets are cleansed and purged for God's great purpose, until at last, at the end of human strength, beaten into the dust from which he came, the metal is ready for the maker's hand.

Leave your goods at Nephythys. Leave your coins, leave your name there, and go into the desert without any wealth: simple clothes on your back, an unshod wooden staff. Walk into the desert. Find water, if you can. Find a secret place where you can forge a new name, and come back as something freshly created. (More game mechanically, it could be a manner of atonement for a character.)

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Re: Pelion

I'm glad I brought this up. There are a number of interesting ideas in all the posts above.

Hyena of Ice's picture
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Re: Pelion

The Egyptian gods under Ptah (and if so, why did they move?)
Ptah is a primordial deity who predates the Egyptian pantheon, and probably by a great amount since he seems to be the deity that embodies the Ethereal Plane. Unless there are any specifics on his origins in the pre-4E canon materials, I presume he is a primordial power from early on in the Multiverse's creation cycle (much like the Elemental Lords)

Speaking of Titans, I'd eventually like to flesh out some planar history and such of the Protogenoi-- the race that preceded the Titans in Greco-Roman mythology. Considering that the bulk of them were personifications rather than human-like beings, I would say that most of them were elemental beings. Not just of the elements, but also creatures like say-- darknes pseudoelementals. Another clue that they're elementals (other than the most glaringly obvious that most of them were landmarks and the like rather than people) is that the protogenoi were capable of both sexual and asexual reproduction, but favored asexual reproduction. That said, asexual reproduction from what I recall was mostly limited to the Protogenai (yes, it's true that the Titans and Olympians can reproduce asexually as well, but their capacity to do so appears extremely limited, as we see in the story of Hephaestus's conception *Hera had to pray and perform elaborate rituals for the conception*, whereas one might argue that Hephaestus's son borne when he splooged on Athena's thigh isn't a true asexual reproduction since it came into contact with female flesh.) They were overthrown (and some subsumed into the Olympian pantheon) when Chronus castrated (slew? If the Protogenoi are elemental-type beings, then it seems unlikely that literal castration would have any long-term effect-- you might as well try castrating an aboleth...) Uranus. Nyx and Gaea rank among the protogenoi, even though Gaea is the mother of the Titans. The bulk of the Protogenoi now live in Pluton since most surviving Protogenoi are children of Nyx and Erebus, who have their divine realm there (I disagree with the placement of Nyx on the Abyss or Carceri, whichever it was, even though she would indeed be chaotically-aligned, as would Erebus be *even though I believe his writeup in Dragon listed him as Neutral Evil*. Technically Nyx's and Erebus's children are not Protogenoi since they came much later and weren't involved in the world's creation, but for D&D rules they would be the same types of creatures as Nyx and Erebus. This can be evidenced by the fact that Eris is apparently a virgin, yet has hundreds of children, and I believe one or two of Eris's kids also gave birth to other Cacodemons asexually. It should be mentioned that ALL of the Cacodemons save the two sons of Ares are protogenoi-- the progency of either Nyx's or Oceanus's, or rarely-- Gaea's family lines *although in some versions Eris is Hera's and Zeus's daughter, IMO it makes far more sense for Eris to be the daughter of Nyx since the bulk of Nyx's hundreds of children were borne asexually, whereas she only had around 4-10 with Erebus depending on source.*) Probably, the Protogenoi would have been created and had their original divine realm in the Inner Planes somewhere (or perhaps Ethereal), and then eventually carved out a realm for themselves on the Outer Planes.
Chronus's overthrow of Uranus likely would have occurred when fleshy, cellular beings overwhelmingly dominated the elemental and amorphic beings, which probably would have happened either during the Cambrian explosion analogue or during the next major extinction event after it. They also would have been the beings involved in the war with the Draeden (which resulted in a draw or with the draeden losing slightly)

Jem
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Re: Pelion

One more idea.

I just remembered that many of the pyramids included a false entrance intended to mislead graverobbers. They didn't much work, but the idea is there.

Pelion, on the whole, appears to be little more than an abandoned tomb with only the barest skim of life roaming the surface. What if this is a false front, and the entire plane is hiding under an illusion? This would not be something most planewalkers are aware of, of course. One sure way to guard the secret would be a memory effect: when you're there -- so that PCs can go there an have an adventure -- everything is clear and open. There is an infinite river that winds its way across the desert, with seas of wheat, acres of lotus flowers, and the long slow heartbeat of inundation and retreat of the waters. On plateaus of rock that rise above the lowlands, necropoli unmatched on the Prime house the promised afterlives of pharoahs in the Egyptian pantheons' worlds, full of wealth and servants, mighty temples, and even the opportunity to advise the gods on the path of their nations, or request an omen sent to their children.

But when the PCs leave this divine domain, it would take a power equal to that of gods to permit them to retain a memory of anything other than time spent in Nephythys, or wandering the desert, occasionally speaking with a bralani about lost tombs or sand-blown ruins. PCs who intend to make trouble may never be allowed to see anything but the desert. And the Athasian desert elves? They too see the desert all the time. What do they care for gods, or necropoli? The Heliopolitans understand this, and let them be, and they are content. (As well as being sturdy guardians against troublemakers.)

Palomides's picture
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Re: Pelion

Interseting idea Jem. Although I would lean more towards a completely new, unknown pantheon instead of the Egyptians.

Can't think of a good fit for a pantheon that feels that it still has work to perform but actually wants to remain hidden from the eyes of others (including worshippers) but I like the idea of some force of good that has taken on some mission they consider critical but feel that they need to operate clandestinely.

Perhaps this could also tie back to the powerful Last Word that featured in "Dead Gods" (which I believe he got from Pelion). Maybe these gods of this layer are the guardians of the True Names and the Words of Power that control creation (if Orcus found the Last Word here; maybe there is also a First Word used in creation).

Don't know if I'll use any of these ideas but it has got me thinking.

Jem
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Re: Pelion

Powers of hidden good, of course.

The Nameless Goddess, whose servants must work in anonymity and discourage pride. She may be the only being in the Multiverse without a True Name (and thus wholly immune to the effects of the Last Word). She wanders the other realms, meeting her priests and angels in quiet corners. In order to be able to worship her, each of her priests has a personal relationship with her.

The Sacrificed God, whose entire existence was a instant of incarnation in which he realized the divine perfection of total altruism, and rendered himself into the Book of Conquering the Self. His divine domain is the Temple of the Book, which he created by coming in to being. It is managed by the order of angels he created at the same moment, following the instructions revealed to them regularly through divinations in the sanctum. They believe his entire divine plan for the final victory of the forces of Good is embedded as potential within the Temple. Petitioners who merge with the plane here leave behind pages of scripture that are edited in to the holy text.

The Forgotten God, whose victory at the banks of the Styx robbed him of all memories except his contentment at the exchange. He is worshiped in any rite that venerates an entire pantheon that does not include him. Only if he becomes too famous will he fall into the Astral. He maintains Pelion's memory-shield, and may call you if you are pained by memories you would rather lose. These may be found here, if there is need of them, in the stones of his dry Rock Garden.

The Goddess of the Not Yet, who reigns over the chaos of unformed possibilities that shift like the sands of time in Pelion's winds. Within a deep system of wind-carved gorges where the sand falls in endless streams through shafts of golden sunlight, she wanders myriad paths seeking the likeliest futures, interceding as lightly as possible for humans, sending advice in the form of dreams and visions. Her worshipers, all unknowing, are diviners who have the most faith in the futures they sift through, and they meet her face to face for the first time when they come to her domain and learn how to become one with the totality of Possibility.

The Lieutenant God, who ascended from mortality and now exists to serve the Powers of Good. He has agreed with those Powers to seek no worship of his own, and therefore waits in Pelion, until those rare times when there is need for a true deity to act, but the hands of a given pantheon are tied. The other gods provide him with only the divine energy he needs to exist, yet he is almost a greater god -- his further powers come from the ambient hopes of the servants and staffers who are far more numerous than the heroes whose names are remembered in song and story. He has no petitioners, but when he goes forth, he leads a host that exists only for the present purpose.

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Re: Pelion

This goddess is great! Really!

Jem wrote:

The Goddess of the Not Yet

The only problem to have a layer that when you leave you forget everything, is: what do you tell the PCs if you want to play an adventure there? To pretend they have forgotten everything after the end? Maybe you can play "flashback" adventures, where the PCs are not really sure what they have experienced in Pelion, finding only some hints of what they have done there. If the majority of the multiverse believes Pelion to be just a desert, the strength of the enchantment should be quite strong.

In my personal vision, I like Pelion to be an evocative desert, inhabited by the powers of hidden good (i love this idea). Maybe the magic amnesia is working only to make you forget you have met one of such powers. Adventure hook: the PCs are on a quest and they do not even remember who gave it to them!

__________________

Hail to the Lemming of Pain!

Jem
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Re: Pelion

You could also simply skip the amnesia and make it a powerful illusion, which breaks when the deity wishes -- or have it that the memory is only erased if a PC ever attempts to reveal the matter to someone they don't know to have been there themselves.

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Re: Pelion

This is going in a completely different direction from the rest of everyone else here, but I was thinking about how exactly Pelion fits in with everything else in Arborea recently for my own game, and this is what I came up with.

In my view of Arborea, it's not the plane of passion, that's incidental to its true theme. Arborea is the plane of the Quest. The plane of the great Homeric epics, of the huge stories of parties heading out for adventure. Arborea is the site of every great adventure. That's why those that journey to Arborea become so broad yet so shallow. They aren't becoming filled with passions, they're becoming archetypical. The party minstrel becomes the Party Minstrel. The brave and noble knight becomes the Brave And Noble Knight. In Computer Programming terms, they become the generic class from which all characters of their type are generated. And this is why emotions are so big in Arborea. Not because it's the plane of passions, but because passion is pretty much all these archetypes have in terms of personalities. They have no background, no characterization, they just are. For the period they're in Arborea, they're on stage, they aren't just acting melodramatic, they are literally within a drama of their own making. They still have free will, but it's less like they're choosing their actions and more like they're choosing the outline from which their script is written. Those not on quests of some sort are usually free from this, because there is no great epic archetype they can fall into. But when they interact with an archetype, they may become an archetype for the period of that meeting. If the Brave And Noble Knight happens to run into a village orphan, that orphan might briefly become the Plucky Urchin, for example.

And the layers match this too. Olympus is the layer of the great quest over hill and dale; the layer of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Ossa is the layer of the great sea quests, of Odysseus, of Jason and the Argonauts. And Pelion? That great desert dotted with ancient ruins and long-lost treasure? Well, what's the most common element of quest upon the Prime Material Plane when it's not a great journey over land or over sea?

Pelion is the layer of the Dungeon Crawl.

And, incidentally, this is why the ruins of these ancient pantheons survive in Pelion and nowhere else. Because they date back so far that they've been overwritten by shifts of belief, of the core mind of mortal life. They date so far back that the majority of mortal life not only doesn't believe in the same way, but doesn't even usually think in the same way. Except in that one plane whose entire theme is that of the ancient ruin, of the far-off secrets of history uncovered by a small group of brave souls. Because it certainly wouldn't be worthwhile if those secrets weren't real.

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Re: Pelion

Idran- don't worry about going against the current. As I said, I think the designers left Pelion intentionally vague and evocative. It's just with my compulsion to connect all the dots, I wanted the layer to have some concrete purpose and I couldn't think of anything that was all that good.

So my point in bringing up this topic was to hear ALL the ideas people had on this. I've picked up some good ideas from the discussion.

I know that we can't go too far from the cannon (e.g. I was once going to suggest that the gears of Mechanus were the internal structure of a wind-up mokey that claps it cymbals together; and I doubt anyone would want to listen to ideas of filling Baator up with puppies and kittens); but with something as open-ended as Pelion, I think hearing different (or even unusual) ideas is good for everyone.

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