Outsider Relationships

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Iavas's picture
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Outsider Relationships

So, to poke the ball a little bit, here's a topic for discussion:

How do the various types of Evil outsiders interact with each other and other outsiders and why? I'm talking about groups, not individuals. For instance, we seem to have have come to the conclusion that Night Hags treat most hordlings like people treat wild animals - they would shoo a wild dog away from their garden but can get in trouble if they get surrounded by a pack of wolves in the woods. Do the hags know some secret, as per their forte, that might give them the upper hand over the stronger or more numerous hordlings in such circumstances? The hags act as merchants to both sides of the Blood War, but how do they deal with the equally opportunistic Yugoloths, particularly since they have such drastic uses for larvae. How do hags act around Gehreleths, Slaadi, Modron, Rilmani, Celestials? How about hordlings in the same circumstances?

Anyway.... share your ideas and discuss.

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Outsider Relationships

Yay, for ball poker Iavas. Laughing out loud

It is interesting question since each hag is in heart individualistic and they work in wery small groups. I mean we all know basic relatons of mayor planar races but relatons of "minor" planar races like hags we know practicly nothing (exept from acts of individuals from various adventures).

Well I think that hags are on lower planes treated with mix of fear and respect, after all they are keepers of many secrets (and knowledge is power), also their magic is different and it bsecrets are unknown to rest of muliverse so no hag will have same tricks in their sleves.

How hags deal with races of lower planes, well I think the each hag is smart enough not to mess with mayor races with their plans, plots and experiments, they can mess with them on individual level but not on racial one. I think their relatonship is strictly of buisnes nature at arms lenght: the hags are best provider of goods (larve) and that suits the fiends just fine as long they dont get involved in their schems.

Also it is ironic that eweryone goes to hag for the advice sooner or later, so I guess that hags are treated as sort of asset that can be exploited (but with caution), so there is posibility that the hags are viewed by fiends as "mostly harmles", useful but unimportant in grand scheme of things, cute old grannies that tend their horsies and steal bad dreams. And that is the exactly kind of public image average hag would want.

Then again there is alvays misterious partnership betwen Vaporighu (PSMC Apendix 2)and hags: Vaporighu can summon hags to its aid but it use that ability not often since it must repay hag in some way. Limits of that kind of relationship not even fiends want to test to extrems, after all even greater fiends fear Vaporighu.

Als here is another idea for another service night hag could provide for Baatezu side of blood war: theycould provide, rise and breed and train nightmires for narzugon cavaliers.

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Yay to Iavas lets keep this project of the damned rolling.How else are we gonna make the afterlife more miserable for everyone else? Smiling

Now in regards to hag relationships with other races...
Baatezu: They look for the best of the best larvae and hags supply the best of the best. Now a hags not gonna give them up cheap just as a baatezu won't buy expensive. However hard currency gets nobody nowhere on the planes and hags're more interested in magic and knowledge. So a baatezu may have to make a few promises such as steady supply of souls for a steady supply of larvae. Act as an hidden agent for the hag in exchange for knowledge. A cornocopia of hellishly deadly magical items. The true name of a lesser or greater devil. etc etc etc.

Gehreleths: I feel that a certain truce is held between these fiends. They have a don't meddle in our affairs and we won't meddle in yours type of realtionship. However the hags may well have desire for knowledge of the dark behind apomps and carceri whatever it may well be. That being said the hags are likely to test just how far the bonds of the truth can stretch. The 'leths on the other hands may well keep to the truce as Apomps commands, but hags are a gateway into the yugoloth domain...

Tanarri: Upon a chance meeting the first thing that takes place is the two partys will size each other up. Are these hags worthy of my time? or are they just another obsticle standing in my way? A feat of power is displayed on both sides(ugh this is sounding like a mating ritual.) Mainly the hag will attempt to impress the tannari with a magical display or release some information as a sign of knowledge example: "I know why ye have come deary, ye seek to know the location of Porlartryzists hide out.." When it comes to larvae trade tannari want everything the hags got. If he already hasn't killed her, and the hag is weak enough for it to do just that, then they'll just take the larvae. However if the hag poses to be a nuisance to kill as is most likely the case, then the tannari will most likely strike an unfair bargain. The hag may agree to this bargain, but attach certain penaltys. i.e cheap, worthless larvae, vague or misleading information. This causes many smart tannari to stike up fairer bargains with the hag, as they know of the repurcussions. The hags will also be good to their word as a dishonest hag is a worthless hag and a dead hag.

I'll give other examples later for the other races.

Iavas's picture
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Outsider Relationships

It could be hinted that Vaporighu are the results of hag experimentation on Yugoloth stock. After all, hags have been known to create the unproportionately powerful altroloths, and such a feat requires a bit of trial and error even with the gray sisters' hidden knowledge. The PSMC2 says that some speculate that Vaporighu are embodiments of the nature of Gehenna (aka exemplars - unlikely), while other think that they were once a variety of Yugoloth that forgot to leave the plane. Could they be Arcanaloths (for instance) that have been beefed up by hags and sent on a mission to keep on eye on the 'loths that have spread beyond the Wastes and into Gehenna? It would certainly fit the hags' desire to know all things.

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One could see these Vaporighu not just as agents to spy on the gehenna 'loths. But on any other fiend or even another planar race. I'd really need to see the PSMC2 to really comment strongly. But they sound kinda like infiltrators of the Yugoloths. Like the Succubus and Erinyes are. At least thats the inpression I got of them after reading a essay about them from mimir.net

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'Zeniel' wrote:
One could see these Vaporighu not just as agents to spy on the gehenna 'loths. But on any other fiend or even another planar race. I'd really need to see the PSMC2 to really comment strongly. But they sound kinda like infiltrators of the Yugoloths. Like the Succubus and Erinyes are. At least thats the inpression I got of them after reading a essay about them from mimir.net

Well, it suggests that they are unable to leave the plane of Gehenna and attack pretty much anyone that they can get their grubby little hands on, including even high-up yugoloths. This means that they're not working for the 'loths, which is what I assume you meant by comparing them to the Succubi Tanar'ri and Succubi Erinyes. Their only association with any other creature is the ability to summon Night Hags. That's really all I could get out of the MC.

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I just thougth of something:

Umm... Corect me if I'm wrong, but was'nt: Malagad, The Hag Countess of Malbolge Night Hag too?
If she was, that part of relatonship with Baatezu is also worth exploring.
I mean she probably did tremendous fawor to Asmodeous (maybe they were even close friends) that he proclaimed her Lord of Nine and "Archdevil". (I guess that the hags were most welcome in Maladomini during her regin).
In that case Baatezu may even treat Night Hags as close allies (at least when Countess was alive). But even now after her death there are Baatezu that are loyal to her and they are keeping dyplomatic relations with individual Night hags...

EDIT: Ok, I looked up to Hag Countess in Planewalker Encyiclopedia, and yes she is Night Hag (yes, I'm not senile yet), who took layer of Malbolge from Moloh.
Anyways, Hag Countess should be mentioned in chapter dedicated to notable hags, but since she was one of mayor figures in panar politics, not to mention that she was an outsider of different species who became Lord of Nine. So I guess that she had to say something about relations between Baatezu and Night Hags.

Also, in Fiendis Codex I: Hordes of Abyss, they also mention The Youthful Crone, Abysall Lord who is patron of change and transformation. Maybe she was also Night hag in her past who rose to status of Abyssal Lord, but she could be patron that represents Night Hags in Abyss. Puzzled
I mean: if Night Hag could became lord of nine, then it certanly could became Abyssal Lord.

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Iavas's picture
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I haven't heard of the Youthful Crone, but don't get me started on Malagarde. I've been trying to expand her history for a while now. Given that she's Lawful Evil, unlike the rest of the purely neutral evil hags, and very much unique in both appearance (wings) and power (a bit of a jump from CR8 night hag to a deity), I wouldn't necessarily use her to define Night Hags. Indeed, she seems to be an anomaly. While her climb to the height of Baator's heirarchy has not been thoroughly described in canon, we do know that she replaced her former lover Moloch (who apparently had really bad taste when it came to women) by talking him into standing up to Asmodeus after obvious defeat. She is also somewho connected to Lilith, either through retcon or through disguise (depending on whom you ask). Either way, she still played the Baatezu high-ups like pawns, which fits well with a hag's strengths in secrets and tricks. However, as I mentioned, she is odd even among hags and her main goal of becoming a deity suggests a contention with Ceguiline.

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I agree that there is no point to debate about Malagrade, she is covered in enough recources as it is.
I just mentioned her as posible dyplomatic connection of Night Hags and Baatezu.
I mean to have such politicial figure among Baatezu is certaly had some benefits to Night Hags as whole, but, it is probably most likly that Malagrade, when she rose to power, did not give a fig about her Gray Waste sisters, but then again you never know...

As of Youthful Crone, there is not much info about her in "Hordes of Abyss", in fact: they have given only her name, portfolio (in her case rejuvenation), and name and number of her Abysal layer. So the possibilty that she is Night Hag as Malagrade (she is proof that you dont have to be Baatezu or Devil to beHigh-Up of entire planar layer) is pure speculation of mine.
(Searching of eternal youth and beuty also sounds like Hag buisness to me...)

EDIT: Here is another example of Hag Relationship, this time with Tanar'ri.
This info is from "Hordes of Abyss" book, Azzagrat entry: There they mention a Night Hag village located in Salt Swamp (46th layer). This village is under ledership of powerfull Night hag who is also proxy of Cegilune. In fact Hag is so powerful that even demons that live in swamp and sourundig area are now loyal to her and pay only lip service to Abyssal Lord Graz'zt.
What Graz'zt has to say about this? He premmits this behaviour becaouse it pays him off to have Cegilune in good spirits, also some of the hags who live in village are employed by Graz'zt as spys to keep eye on Cegilune proxy and her plans and machinations...

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