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Out on a Limb-o

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Mon, 2008-07-28 00:30
#1
Eirien
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Out on a Limb-o

Greetings,

This thread might sound silly to some of you but I’m right in the middle of Planewalker with a Planescape subject so I figure I’ll get a better response here than some random gaming forum.

I’m a being who is always looking to improve myself in all aspects of my life. I’ve always loved storytelling and I instantly fell in love with the Planescape campaign setting because of all the potential fantasy worlds, civilizations/culture, and adventures that can be created and adapted with them.

One thing I found interesting about the game was that it had guilds called Factions and even more so, I was fascinated with the thought they were fueled by beliefs rather than objects or ‘have-to’s.

I’ve always been aware about the Planescape setting being just pure fantasy, though I couldn’t help but notice over the years that some of the people I’d meet could easily fit inside the ideals of one Faction or another.

My partner for example, he’s basically a Xaositect at heart though he does a good job at pretending to be “Normal” that some days I wonder if he’s really an Anarchist. One of my best friends closely resembles a Believer of the Source as he is always striving for perfection yet never seems to act in frustration; carefully learning from his mistakes and continuing along his path with renewed effort.

I personally have found my beliefs to be closely in line with the feeling of the Sign of One as I like the idea of being the sole creator of my world (eg, LoA), but I also lean towards the Transcendent Order’s view of following one’s heart without a second thought (eg, Zen.)

I’m curious as to what Faction(s) you think you’d match up with [‘original’ 15 or not] if they existed in this physical world. I’m also making this thread with the intention that people are free to post about their preferences towards a Faction in hopes of meeting others with a similar set of interests.

I know I’m taking a risk at being laughed at however I’ve always found a lot of deep-thinkers in the gaming community and am very interested in reading some open-minded posts.

With that said, if there are any Signer- or Cipher-like people out there who jump at the chance to take life by the horns and are willing to discuss their take on life in more detail, you’re free to post here or PM me!

Thanks for reading.

Have a great day.

__________________

2Ed/Ad&D Planewalker - Signer & Cipher Friend. Xaositect Artist. Hugger of Bleakers.

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Mon, 2008-07-28 06:04
#2
Yemeth
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Well friend Eirien first of

Well friend Eirien first of all i think you ought to know its the first time i post in the forums of Planewalker.i've been scoping the place for a year and a half now but i never touched my keyboard:jawdrop:the reason i did was your post.Let me explain myself.Planescape(in my opinion)is the best fantasy world i've ever encountered and i think the best part of it are what the factions are about.their inticate philosophies the cold war between them and of course that the notion that if enough people believe reality can change.I think i have an open mind like you do and a lot of other planewalkers must have.i share your thoughts.I hope when you get mad with somebody you don't think them out of existence;)(but really i don't think i would be a signer in real life.maybe some of the more individualistic factions.athar maybe??still looking into it.:))Come on put the knives out let's make a Faction war in here....Haha

Mon, 2008-07-28 08:58
(Reply to #2) #3
Eirien
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Quote:Well friend Eirien

Quote:
Well friend Eirien first of all i think you ought to know its the first time i post in the forums of Planewalker.i've been scoping the place for a year and a half now but i never touched my keyboard:jawdrop:the reason i did was your post.Let me explain myself.

I too, am normally a lurker in these forums and it took me a few years before I finally felt the need to made an account here. And I'm glad to meet someone who took the chance to grace me with their first post. Thank you. =)

Quote:
Planescape(in my opinion)is the best fantasy world i've ever encountered and i think the best part of it are what the factions are about.their inticate philosophies the cold war between them and of course that the notion that if enough people believe reality can change.

As I said before, I very much love how the factions work but I find the designers only really scratch the surface of them. It's up to all of us PS fans to 'flesh them out', so to speak.

I also think as a whole what makes Planescape so grand is that it's so amazingly flexible. I can fit any campaign I ever dreamed of into its setting, even the really werid ones. And when I'm done with a campaign I can just choose to close a portal on the players and have no need to put in extra effort to maintain a world/culture/city/NPCs that the players may never want to visit again.

Quote:
I think i have an open mind like you do and a lot of other planewalkers must have.i share your thoughts.I hope when you get mad with somebody you don't think them out of existence;)

Haha! Actually, I tend to leave people I dislike alone. It's often much more efficient to leave people up to their own devices (letting them unconsciously imagine/sustain thier own tailored fears) than to waste all that time thinking about wishing them ill.

I'd rather wish for more fun in my life to counter a bad person or day. =)

Quote:
(but really i don't think i would be a signer in real life.maybe some of the more individualistic factions.athar maybe??still looking into it.:))Come on put the knives out let's make a Faction war in here....Haha

Perhaps the Revolutionary League might be a good match for you. Eye-wink

I also wouldn't say I'm an extreme version of a Signer who goes around saying, "You're all in my mind!" but I don't think this physical 3D world is all that there is. I believe it's quite possible this world is like a dreamstate, and in that sense, everyone is just a part of my wild and beautiful dream.

I've always been a heavy dreamer and spent many years working on controlling my lucid dreams as well as finding strange synchronicities in my waking reality, so this is mostly why I see the world in this way.

Thank you very much for your response, Yemeth. It meant a lot to me.^^

__________________

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Mon, 2008-07-28 10:39
#4
Yemeth
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Well i never thought on the

Well i never thought on the Signers that way.i think they are pretty egocentric(like the Sensates)that's why i don't like them very much.but i believe that we're not living in a 3D world either.

You see that's why i can't bet on any faction.on one hand the signers have it right.after all if I cease to exist everything ceases to exist too.right?but on the other hand if you're the center of the multiverse and you imagine everything you imagine me too??that's crazy.still they are very interesting like all the factions i think.

 Sooo...you think i'm an anarchist??:?(I forgot.i'm a complete newbie to all this forum stuff and i try my best in English i hope it all comes out nice)

 About the factions i think they were developed so DMs can make them the way they wanted.that's why they're so cool.i mean two Signers can never be the same.the may have the same beliefs but one maybe a dreamer like you;)and the other a crazy [REDACTED] think you understand what i want to say.

Anyway so you are a DM right?? 

 

Mon, 2008-07-28 11:16
#5
Clueless
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Keeping in mind that a good

Keeping in mind that a good number o fthe Factions beliefs are actualyl based on real-world philosophical movements, and I think it becomes pretty obvious how you could run across a large number of people who seem to 'fit' into one or more of the Factions. Likely, they fit into the real-world group that formed the basis of the idea for hte faciton.

Mon, 2008-07-28 12:29
(Reply to #5) #6
Eirien
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Yemeth wrote:Well i never

Yemeth wrote:
Well i never thought on the Signers that way.i think they are pretty egocentric(like the Sensates)that's why i don't like them very much.but i believe that we're not living in a 3D world either.

You know, I ran into that very same way of thinking for the longest time. In one of my campaigns most of my players would always see this one Signer who was always scarily prophetic to the point of being annoying because it would leave the members fearful some days. She'd send them these strange little notes whenever they visited her town that would be VERY cryptic until after the adventure or right in the middle when it was insultingly convenient.

eg, After a bar fight that sets a small fire...

-Note says- "Look on the bright side, one day soon, fire won't be the worst of your problems."

A week later, the player finds they are in the Abyss and the darn Signer is unnervingly accurate once more. Granted, I make fake prophecies as well to keep her 'balanced' but for some reason the players always would find a way to match it up to what was going on. It's like, they created that coincidence.

"Oh gods, this GREEN she mentioned must be the lack of it in the Wastes...I knew IT!!" 

*DM quietly rolls eyes*

Yeah.. so I eventually made the realization that an overly egocentric Signer didn't help to promote the Faction at all in those games. It's a little late to 'off' or change her but when I make an important Signer NPC again I'll definitely go with a less in-your-face snob and instead use a more gentle, motherly-psychic personality.

Quote:
You see that's why i can't bet on any faction.

Well, we're not really meant to fit into boxes. But it's still nice to find others who share somewhat similar beliefs, you know? =)

Quote:
on one hand the signers have it right.after all if I cease to exist everything ceases to exist too.right?but on the other hand if you're the center of the multiverse and you imagine everything you imagine me too??that's crazy.still they are very interesting like all the factions i think.

Going straight from the Signer philosophy: If you are the One of all, then this YOU that is a body might just be an illusion. You could in reality be much more, bigger, more cosmic. Which would mean I could just be a figment of YOUR imagination. 

Quote:
Sooo...you think i'm an anarchist??:?(I forgot.i'm a complete newbie to all this forum stuff and i try my best in English i hope it all comes out nice)

Can I ask what your native tongue is? =)

And I don't know what your Faction would be closest to your beliefs! I just mentioned it because you had a more rebelious/nihilistic/existiantalist feeling in your previous post. If I had to trust my gut (there's the 'Cipher' in me) and pick one I'd put you more as a member of the Free League. Though you did say you like the Athar.

If you haven't checked it out, I'd take a look at the Mimir's take on the Factions. It's got pieces from the books as well as some twists I think you'd like.

Quote:
About the factions i think they were developed so DMs can make them the way they wanted.that's why they're so cool.i mean two Signers can never be the same.the may have the same beliefs but one maybe a dreamer like you;)and the other a crazy [REDACTED] think you understand what i want to say.

I totally understood you! Real life is very much the same way. You'll find people of similar religions, philosophies, and even hobbies who are not at all like the other people in the same orginization/club. Sure many will have a similar attitude, but we're definitely not clones or robots.

And I may enjoy DMing Planescape but I certainly like my other hobbies.

Quote:
Anyway so you are a DM right??

Yes, sir! I've been DMing for a bit over a decade now and got into planescape a little while after DMing. My campaigns however are actually quite differently run than most people I know who play PS.

I rarely use dice at all; emphasising on storytelling and creative diplomacy. I didn't like the post Faction war and still run my Sigil with the same 15 Factions. As well, I don't lean on the alignment wheel [it is not an effective tool for roleplaying fleshed-out personalities] so my planes are not as 'orderly' as a Guvner would like. Eye-wink

I've mostly used Planescape DMing as a starting point to my storytelling career. It's always worked out well for me and the players I've DM'd with so I'm very happy with that. ^^

Clueless wrote:
Keeping in mind that a good number o fthe Factions beliefs are actualyl based on real-world philosophical movements, and I think it becomes pretty obvious how you could run across a large number of people who seem to 'fit' into one or more of the Factions. Likely, they fit into the real-world group that formed the basis of the idea for hte faciton.

Agreed 100%, most of the Factions are based off of RL groups.

The people in Wikepedia do an alright job in trying to compare them all, though imo they only touch upon the basics.

__________________

2Ed/Ad&D Planewalker - Signer & Cipher Friend. Xaositect Artist. Hugger of Bleakers.

Mon, 2008-07-28 13:19
(Reply to #6) #7
Yemeth
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Well first of all i would

Well first of all i would very much like to be a part of one of your campaigns.i think that signer note idea was cool although it did create some....implications.

 Since you asked my native tongue is Greek8)and i'm into literature and books and not into DMing or RPGing(not that i wouldn't like to be but i guess i didn't have the chance to do it):(i already checked out the mimir stuff thanx anyway(Yeah i'm an Indep all right):P

So 2 questions for you my friend

1st You say you've been DMing for over a decade:jawdrop:now.how long have you been in RPGing(i'm pretty sure this word does NOT exist)in general

2nd What is YOUR native tongue?:D(Sorry if it's all Greek to you;))

PS:am i using a lot of smileys or what?

 

 

Mon, 2008-07-28 14:51
(Reply to #7) #8
Eirien
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Quote:Well first of all i

Quote:
Well first of all i would very much like to be a part of one of your campaigns
I actually don't do any online DMing anymore and have my groups on hold to work more on my career as a Storyteller/Illustrator this summer. Earlier this year I was making Machinimas for video games (and still am, though taking a break on it this month.) But, thank you for considering me. =)

And Greek? Cool! I've a friend in Greece who's a big Planescape gamer and a DM. She even has a website where she posts all her campaigns in Greek. =)

I'll have to go hunting in my pile of Bookmarks and send you the web address. 

1) I actually started DMing about a year or so into playing RPG's which was back around 1997. I found it so very natural to be a narrator of stories and when I stumbled upon Planescape it was much more freeing than any other campaign world I had played before (Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance..)

I also very much like the Spelljammer campaign setting but have my own twist on it as well.

 2) My native tongue is English but some days I wonder...hehe. I love the languages of other cultures though so I had to ask.  =)

 ----

 And going a little bit back on topic...

Would anyone else like to post their thoughts on my original topic? Have a Faction you find to be similar to your own ideals/beliefs? Please share your tale here!

__________________

2Ed/Ad&D Planewalker - Signer & Cipher Friend. Xaositect Artist. Hugger of Bleakers.

Mon, 2008-07-28 16:12
(Reply to #8) #9
jareddm
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I've gotta go with the

I've gotta go with the Fraternity of Order.  For me everything has its place and its function.  Everything can be explained one way or another, even if the current explanation is that it can't be explained.

I like that idea that those who know the rules and understand the rules end up on top.  That by learning enough, you eventually figure your way to the top. 

 Plus I'm a BIG fan of  large scale data and statistics.

Mon, 2008-07-28 16:16
#10
Clueless
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I started in Indep and found

I started in Indep and found myself a Bleaker. I find the idea of a lack of 'purpose' in the universe to be not so much depressing as incredibly liberating. So I guess that makes me a Bleaker heretic? Go fig, huh?

Mon, 2008-07-28 22:22
(Reply to #6) #11
Jem
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Eirien wrote: Granted, I

Eirien wrote:
Granted, I make fake prophecies as well to keep her 'balanced' but for some reason the players always would find a way to match it up to what was going on. It's like, they created that coincidence.

"Oh gods, this GREEN she mentioned must be the lack of it in the Wastes...I knew IT!!"

*DM quietly rolls eyes*

That happens a lot. I have run several campaigns over the course of several years and probably half my subplots were player speculations that I decided to go with.

As for faction, I would have to say Fraternity of Order. I'm a mathematician by trade, though those fellows get a little mystical about their mathematics for me, and are relatively focused on the specific nature of their fictional setting, Mechanus, so a slightly less localized version fits me better. Religiously, I am an atheist and thus share that with the Athar, though I lack their Deist belief in a Great Unknown. 

Mon, 2008-07-28 22:23
#12
Jem
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Addendum: And seeing

Addendum: And seeing Clueless' post, I also agree with the Bleakers
as to the lack of an inherent purpose or meaning to the Universe --
there is awe-inspiring and universal order, but order is not same as
meaning.  The freedom and responsibility of determining one's own
purpose in existence really ought to be a fairly standard "optimistic
Bleaker" interpretation, I'd think!  Indeed, in the current campaign
I'm in, the GM has replaced the Bleakers with the DaDaists.  Same idea, more cheerful.  They even still run the Asylum, and occasionally cure people.

Mon, 2008-07-28 23:11
#13
Clueless
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In my current game, my

In my current game, my character went Bleaker almost a year before any other player in game even registered it. Much less that he was heretical in that self-reliance, self-empowerment way. That's since become more.... obvious. Eye-wink
 It made for a long period of jokes about Bleakers in character and awkward half-laughs from my character. Eye-wink

Tue, 2008-07-29 02:24
#14
Eldan
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Hmm. It's difficult for me.

Hmm. It's difficult for me. I share some ideas from many factions.

Fraternity of Order: Yes, I do believe that there are rules to everything.

Bleakers: No, I don't think there's a purpose. And that doesn't even disturb me. I find it liberating as well.

Sensates: They have the bloody best ideas about what one should do with his life.

But ultimately I always find myself believing in the indeps most of all. Closely followed by the Sensates. 

Thu, 2008-07-31 05:07
#15
Zimrazim
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I mostly find the factions

I mostly find the factions to be a little too simplistic.

As the factions are described in the original PS sourcebooks, I've long considered the Planescape factions to be a little *too* limiting.  Even, in some cases, silly.  For example, I'm fairly sure that if one is a Bleaker or an Indep, the PC has a small but significant percentage chance of character death just by being a member of that faction.  (10% chance of dying in the Mad Bleaker wing, and a small chance of catching a nasty disease, because the Lady doesn't like Indeps.)  Personally, I don't think that adds very much to roleplaying.

 

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Thu, 2008-08-14 21:29
(Reply to #15) #16
Eirien
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Hey all! I just wanted to

Hey all!

I just wanted to give a little bump and say that I very much love the posts here. I would so like to see more though! Let's see if we can get some more people matched up for discussions. ^^

Zimrazim wrote:
I mostly find the factions to be a little too simplistic.

As the factions are described in the original PS sourcebooks, I've long considered the Planescape factions to be a little *too* limiting.  Even, in some cases, silly.

Well, real life is silly sometimes as well. Eye-wink

Zimrazim wrote:
For example, I'm fairly sure that if one is a Bleaker or an Indep, the PC has a small but significant percentage chance of character death just by being a member of that faction.  (10% chance of dying in the Mad Bleaker wing, and a small chance of catching a nasty disease, because the Lady doesn't like Indeps.)  Personally, I don't think that adds very much to roleplaying. 

In this world people go mad all the time and some just drop dead suddenly for unknown reasons. Here we have people who are born with wild diseases and other imparments where surgery may not even be an option. Yet in Planescape it can be just a simple /prayer and the flick of a wrist...*booom!* All your illnesses are gone. And for most there, if you die you might even get a chance to ressurect! In comparison, our world looks really limited. =P

Limitations don't mean characters in Planescape should stop living their lives (ie, us RPing them) and certainly not us here in reality. We make the best with what we have and sometimes challenges can make life more interesting. ^^

That said, I'm still looking to meet up with anyone who carries a more Signer or Cipher mindset. That would be anyone who finds things like the Law of Attraction or even Zen/Tao Te Ching, fascinating.

Farewell for now, friends!

__________________

2Ed/Ad&D Planewalker - Signer & Cipher Friend. Xaositect Artist. Hugger of Bleakers.

Thu, 2008-08-14 22:24
(Reply to #15) #17
Bob the Efreet
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Zimrazim wrote: For

Zimrazim wrote:

For example, I'm fairly sure that if one is a Bleaker or an Indep, the PC has a small but significant percentage chance of character death just by being a member of that faction. (10% chance of dying in the Mad Bleaker wing, and a small chance of catching a nasty disease, because the Lady doesn't like Indeps.) Personally, I don't think that adds very much to roleplaying.

 Fortunately, PCs are the members of the faction that these things don't happen to.

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Fri, 2008-08-15 00:33
#18
Jem
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I think for the most part

I think for the most part anyone will find sufficient flaws in each of the factions to figure that it doesn't really represent them; the factions are semi-religious, after all, and since they're fictional to start with, it's no surprise that we won't be smitten converts.

Instead, a more illuminating question than "what faction would you join?" might be, "what faction would you start?".  You find yourself in the Planescape milieu with a real chance to make your philosophical beliefs known and guide the behavior of a large number of people; what kind of faction grows up under your tutelage?

For me, the answer to this one is a lot clearer.

The Academy

Reality has basic patterns that can be studied and understood. Be skeptical of dogma but give every idea a fair hearing; seek evidence widely and test hypotheses strenuously. Winnow falsehood and you are left with the truth. Abhor lies and reveal them when found; deal in honesty and disseminate knowledge.

In seeking the truth, this faction would be skeptical of claims of revealed truth (like the Athar, or the Revolutionary League, though it would despise the League's subterfuges and violence). In pursuing truth, it would collect data, like the Sensates, and seek to organize it, like the Fraternity of Order. It would make its storehouse of knowledge available to Sigil, in the form of a Great Library (replacing the poorly-detailed version in canon), as well as through courses taught by experts and sages. It would, in hewing to its philosophy of examining all ideas without bias, even truthfully explain philosophies it didn't much care for, and in the process would end up as a relatively trusted arbitrator of information. As the factions settled into roles in Sigil, the Academy would clearly function as Sigil's educational system. It is extremely unlikely that it could dent the population of uneducated street waifs, but as a vocational school and university it would likely turn out a high caliber of graduates in wizardry, lore, the bardic arts, crafting, and professional skills, and serve as a center of scholarship and research.

Among the 15 factions, it would be most likely to replace the Sensates if it were present at that early shakeout. It would likely be on good terms with the Fraternity of Order, the Athar, and the Sensates if they existed. Its belief in giving any idea an equal chance would mean cordial relations with the Believers of the Source, Indeps, and possibly Signers since they would be supporters of the Hall of Speakers. They would simply disagree with the Dead, the Xaositects, and the Bleak Cabal. The more destructive factions -- Sinkers, Mercykillers, the Revolutionary League -- would earn their enmity, and they would often be willing to work against those factions. Relations with the Hardheads would be strained -- the Harmonium are obviously organized and useful in Sigil, but their adherence to (and evangelism for) the One True Way is at odds with the Academy's philosophy. Takers are irritatingly venal and Ciphers, who might not like the Academy themselves (they persuade people to overthink things!) still have an intriguing philosophy that deserves examination.

Services at the Library, its faction headquarters, would be as widely available as would be marginally profitable. Adventurers who pay a nominal fee could at least get access to reference works suitable for a +2 masterwork equipment bonus for Knowledge skill checks and bardic knowledge checks, and even manuals for some tasks in other skills; for some such checks, the presence of the Library would allow retries and taking 20, representing a thorough research expedition. The Library would be an adequate reference for legend lore spells and frequently contain descriptions of known regions suitable for teleportation. Experts would also be available to aid characters' checks. Scrolls and scriveners, of course, would be a thriving business, as would sales of mimir, copies of mundane books, copies of the less-dangerous spells from spellbooks, and similar information services. Faction members in good standing would have access to higher-security, sometimes dangerous works.

Faction abilities would likely involve defenses against deception: enhanced defenses against illusions or being bluffed, increased abilities with Gather Information and Sense Motive, and the advantages of a solid education. Higher-level abilities would include the ability to sense patterns in data, as well as communication abilities to record, preserve, and transmit knowledge. The faction would have its share of successful transcendences as faction members' knowledge was honed to an ideal regarding some fundamental truth of the Multiverse. Meanwhile, socially, it would pursue egalitarian and meritocratic ideals.

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