Ortho: The To Do List

My 'to do' list includes

- Something on the pixies (since they're the other Orthoron race mentioned in The Factol's Manifesto)

- Something on Bafatai

- Helping to finish the colony worlds.

RE the pixies - from what I saw in the Factol's Manifesto it looked like they lumped them in with the elves in the deadbook. I assume that's where you were going witht h e pixies? Putting something like a lingering hidden community of them someplace? (Perhaps underground nestled amongst the roots of a forest guarded by Ina?)

Ooohhhh - okies. Cool!

The To Do list is three posts up. Mostly it's assigning numbers to what we've got. I'm not that good at creating NPC stats for example.

Yeps so far. Have you looked through the other thread materials already? Otherwise I can hunt down the NPC descriptions for you so as to save you much time and agony?

You';d be surprised... I'm sort of between regular jobs right now so I'm catching up on a lot of this sort of work. Better than sleeping in all day.

There's a PDF I've been working from actually that I recommend now as the starting point for folks. It's a lot easier to follow where things are going on that. The threads were useful when we had everyone going and posting on them all at once - but as time has passed... that feeling of being in the middle of a conversation fades. It's harder to jump in on it via the threads and I don't expect people to.

*looks for link*
Found: /ortho/Ortho.pdf

Now - in my defense - it's about half edited so far. I've been stitching together what's on the forums with what's in this PDF and expanding upon it, adding in to fill in the blanks. But pardon the dust of construction, some of the PDF has massive grammar and transition issues b/c that hasn't been fixed yet.

I had no idea this setting had become that comprehensive. Impressive document size!

Generally I agree although I envisioned the government of Ortho to function as a communist state with regards to employment allocation or at the least to enforce compulsory military service so that all citizens go through the indoctrination process for a few years. Alternatively there could be a system like in "Starship Troopers" where you only become a voting citizen if you have completed a tour of military service or some other act which benefits society as a whole.

Apart from that your ideas look solid, I particularly like the friction between the Planar and Prime harmonies, I'd leave this a little vague so that DM's could either play this as either friendly competition or a bitter rivalry for resources and prestige.

I'd also suggest that if people are writing up detailed stats for NPC's they put up a post so that we don't do un-neccessary duplicates.

The discussion of Ortho and communisim has come up before and at the time we compared and contrasted the end result as seen in Russia vs. China. I much much much prefer viewing it as the way China works - and it's included in the rough document there as a guideline for when that section gets handled. The believers of the Way of Harmony (to avoid confusing terms) are *not* above the law though they are very much powerful.

I know the terms need to get sorted out. I suspect there's a difference between the Knights of Harmony, the original militaristic group, and the Harmonium, which probably includes non-offensive groups such as schools, research departments etc (think the Army Corp of Engineers).

The *philosophy* is open and encouraged in all and the indoctrination process doesn't so much occur within the Knights themselves as in growing up on Ortho itself - from family, church, local schools and the Schools of Ethics. For example, there's plenty of folks who say they're a communist but aren't members of the communist party, and they do truly believe the ideals. And it's that, coming from planars, that can cause the confusion in terms. You don't have to carry a card to believe. You do have to carry a card to act as military or police force or draw pay.

Re: terms - this is what I was going to go through and clean up references with once we had holes patched. Revisions, suggestions, requests for clarification welcome.

Ortho - the place
Orthorian - the people or an adjective
the Way of Harmony - the belief system (as an Orthorian would say)
the Knights of Harmony - an old fashioned way of saying the Harmonium, or a historical reference to an establishing knighthood
the Harmonium - the military branch of Ortho passing itself off as a faction
the Pax Harmonium - a timeperiod or metaphorical reference to Orthorian influence
the Orthorian Central Authority - the actual government, all of the branches not just military

re: The three pillars - as I recall my intentions there were to emphasize how those components are as much the pillars of society as they are of governance, which are two rather different things. Did I give the Lords of Law a council representative and have now simply forgotten?

I'm much inclined to view the Harmonium title as simply addressing that entire 'executive' branch of government. A point of subtlety that is of course confusing to Planars when they first join. The OCA has not extended it's non-military organizations to Sigil yet b/c Sigil is not properly prepared to become a colony.

Now that does leave the interesting question of where the loyalties lie of those planars who join but don't realize they're effectively asking to become citizens of the Prime... but I suspect that's something to leave in there as a point of conflict. Especially in light of the planar colony possibly getting restless about wanting to become a full province.

A note re: practicality of a total-war state - it isn't *as* impossible for Ortho given the magic in the environment and the sheer level of organization the planet could it pull off. These aren't a medieval people, if anything in mentality you're much closer to Roman (orderly, progressive, problem-solvers). Medieval just doesn't reflect this world very well at all. Pull out a couple of clerics blessing fields and casting food and water and you can see where I'm going with this. They have the capability for total war if they needed it.

However, I don't believe though that they would have it for *other* reasons. Namely that it's easier to believe in peace and harmony if you actually *have* some of it, so they leave the sons and daughters of the people at home if they want to stay there. (Besides, having reserve populations to dip into is always handy.) If Ortho has a major offensive though you can bet enlistment rates shoot up, and it's still one of the easier ways to really get ahead in the world to join up for at least awhile. Right now - they just don't *need* it and they haven't since the War of Iron smacked them firmly on the nose with the newspaper and said 'Bad dog! Sit!' They *are* aggressive. They are *not* stupid though, and a significant portion of the OCA have learned the lesson that more subtle approaches are called for if you truly want loyal territories.

While I agree with the historical examples you raise I agree with Clueless that those rules don't necessarily apply to Ortho. Regardless of this the farming year does contain a certain amount of 'down-time' in which sons and daughters could get involved in some civic projects - not necessarily military mind you but with that mindset. This would include things like road building, communal irrigation projects, research and development, admin tasks as well as direct combat and law enforcement. The council isn't stupid, they'd tailor the tasks to suit peoples abilities so that a budding mage isn't stuck in spiky red plate armour.

I think that this would allow us to better reflect the lawful nature of Ortho by giving everyone a taste of military discipline for a few weeks a year whilst working on a community project.

One other reason that I can see for giving a large number of civillians military training is that I can't see a reason for there to be a large army stationed on Ortho as there shouldn't be any inter-provence war that requires them. The only time conventional battle should be necessary on Ortho soil would be in cases of extra-planar invasion. Other 'rough work' could be performed by a local constabulary who would have the power to recruit local citizens where necessary (could be some nice plot hooks involving misuse of this power here). There might be one centralised army on the planet but I see this being more composed of 'special forces' types who act on trouble spots as needed and could become unit leaders for citizen soldiers if there ever was a major invasion.

Well... let's see what I can sort out here. Some of this has already been answered or partially answered via implication.

I would say that the Council and Octave probably make the major mission decisions - setting the overall goals. Leaving the details to the military. Yeah this does mean the military has an influence and vote on what it gets to do - but not enough of one they can just take off without consultation or a coup.

Very good question. They may be considered the elite of the elite - like Delta force. Or they may be a secret society operating within the Harmonium in an attempt to bring their belief systems back into a rational stable construction (See the Forbidden Goddess background for that - the sole elven member of the original Knights). This is an undefined and provides major opportunity for use. But I will slaughter the person who makes them knock-off Harpers.

I don't think the system would have been quite as specifically crafted as the US system is. We may need to research some of the other systems out there to find an answer to this. My inclination is to say no - we don't need a specific executive branch. In effect the Harmonium (military) serves that purpose as is, right?

Separation of church and state is a new thing historically speaking and I suspect in no small part comes out of seeing the church do things not in the state's best interest and vice versa. It shouldn't be too much more of a problem than say... the Temple of Waukeen in Amn? (yeah yeah, I read FR sometimes)

I don't think it needs to apply in this environment. I suspect the churches have their influences fairly indirectly in terms of commanding officers and all but are definately there outside of the Octave - their clergy serve as healers on the fields, advisers, seers, communications experts, record keepers, etc etc. Thankfully the Lords of Order (Ina being an odd one though) are all on the side of the OCA, and at least one of the Lords is all in favor of this sort of orderly command system.

I was thinking the Lower house handles that process - it seems to be the best compromise of efficiency vs. representation?

Depends. The provinces are country sized after all. The Schools of Ethics provide a stable point for discussion of local law, world(federal) law, ethics, and philosophy - but the best governance over time is usually one where each major demographic/geographical area has a law customized to it's own mores and needs. Hence - "do your thing where you are - but lord help you if you cross Council directives or OCA regulations and laws".

Motmurk for example almost *certainly* has a separation of representative and a leader. The leader has to keep control of his position at home- but the representative is told 'Do this this and this - or I'll fire you and send someone else. And by fire - I mean charge with treason and have executed.'

That's one of our fuzzy points. I think I started dropping that idea later on and just outright ignored it for at least one province (the jungle one with the raksasha)... That can probably vanish, esp sine I don't think we actually had any different powers assigned between the three.

Depends on the province and see above re: local controls. Some of these provinces were forged out of an alliance of equal powers that were just not willing to give up their own ways of working - compromise (and harmony) resulted. And you try telling an orc to be democratic... The beholders were easier!

It may have happened in some of them already - in fact I think there actually *is* one where it has. It's not encouraged and with membership in the military(Harmonium) open to *all* regardless of location by OCA laws - that may help dissolve the issue over time. There's a Lord of Royalty that may also get in a huff about it, nobility and rank is something you can inherit but along with it comes a great deal of responsibility and he gets cranky if you don't pull your share for the common good.

Good question. The clergy of Saeducial probably like to get tangled up in it but the Schools of Ethics are likely to point out a natural bias in such situations, and the Lord of Justice and Judges would *really* get cranky if someone tampered. Hrm. Perhaps the Schools of Ethics play a major role in this situation?

As for autonomy - the OCA requires laws be written down (see!? stuff just made up out of thin air!) - this is to preserve it for length of time and to avoid poor memories corrupting law. Where local aws do not conflict with OCA laws, they are in effect - otherwise OCA laws rule?

Needs to get worked out.

Also needs to get worked out. I suspect the founding provinces have a few subtle bylines put into their versions of 'constitutions' that provide extra security. The beholders for example would have required it.

Also a good question. Historically - Pan Thaera has been a problem. The provinces there were split deliberated to force them to spend more time sorting out internal trouble than external. And well - let's not forget that elven genocide thing - truly disobedient provinces get the snot kicked out of em. Nowadays - possibly economic repercussions and enticements are tried first?

Hopefully that's filled in some blanks. If nothing else it got some of the assumptions I'd been workign with out of the back of my head and onto paper.

In regard to that, does anyone think Sarin (and now Faith) was the guy in charge of Ortho's entire military? If so, Sigil seems a strange place for him (that is, Sarin) to reside. It seems to me that Sarin's position (and now Faith's) must have been the governor of Ortho's planar colonies. It's easier to believe that the githzerai Omar (who became factol of the Harmonium a while back, before he exposed himself as an Anarchist) would get the job of territorial governor than it is to believe he was given the reins of one of the three major arms of the state.

The word "Harmonium" could still be used on Ortho to refer to the military, but in that case the factol probably shouldn't be the head of the Harmonium - only a high-ranking member of it put in charge of an important colony.

There's a bit of this already in the PDF (and I recognize my writing style), but this isn't made explicit - there's just the argument that Sarin didn't rule Ortho, but nothing really about what his actual position was.

"Deserving of promotion, Sarin chose to go to Sigil, rather than take the easier route through the ranks of the prime Harmonium worlds. He knew Sigil would be a rough posting compared to one on Ortho and that he'd arrive a near Clueless. And he still wanted the Cage."

So Sigil was a promotion, but not the only one - or the easiest - he could have had. Yeah, it seems pretty clear that since someone was available to promote him, there are further ranks above him. Probably the choice was to become factol in Sigil or to become governor of one of the Prime colonies, or governor-general of one of the provinces on Ortho proper.

I've been working under the assumtion that the Factol, and the Composer of Planar Harmony were one and the same (my write-up on Ortho's government even explicately refers to Faith as being the last Octave). In my mind, the Harmonium is just the military, but on the Planes, the military happens to control everything, and the line between soldier and civilian is blurred. Therefore, I see Faith as being both the comander of the Planar branch of the military (what PS calls the Harmonium), and functionally the governor of the Planar colonies as well (although they could have an official governor or representative as well. One of the Factors, maybe).

As for Sarin choosing the more difficult position, does it directly state that that postion was Factol? Assuming it does, then that could mean he would have had an easier time becoming Composer of Prime Harmony, but that's a bit of a stretch. It could also be that you can be Factol without being Composer of Planar Harmony, and the Planar Harmonium will frequently choose to seperate the two positions so that the Factol will secretly be serving a composer who is even higher up. It could even be (although this would be stretching canon) that Faith has been the Composer of Planar Harmony all along, and she just happens to be filling both roles while she looks for a suitable replacement for her husband.

And Rip's right, Omar becoming a member of the Octave makes absolutely no sense, which leaves me in a bit of a bind in terms of the positions' actual roles.

Edit: I figured out how to make the Omar thing work. Perhaps he was never really Factol to begin with. Take a look:

The True Story of Omar: the Factol Who Never Was.

In years past, a talented Githzerai named Omar rose swiftly through the ranks of the Harmonium before eventually becoming Factol, but to the shock of those beneath him, upon attaining the vaunted position, he revealed himself to be an Anarchist in disguise and announced the dissolution of the faction. Despite Omar's swift fall from power and the Harmonium's insistance that they had known he was a fake all along, most planars see the incident as evidence that the Harmonium is not so infalliable as they claim to be. The Harmonium leadership, on the other hand, see the incident as evidence that most Planars are morons.

In actuality, the rise of "Factol" Omar really was all part of an elaborate Harmonium sting operation launched by the OCA as a way to "clean house" in the Planar Harmonium Firstly, it was a way to ferret out Revolutionary League spies within the Planar Harmonium. And secondly, it was a way for the Orthorian leadership to test the loyalty of their planar followers by seeing who they would side with in a mock civil war.

Omar, for his part, was the perfect tool. His true nature was apparent early on, and all through his rise to power he was watched by a group of of shadowy investigators (many of them Sin Hunters sent from Ortho) who saw who the man dealt with and took down names. Then one day, Omar was approached by the Planar Harmonium and told he was the new Factol. The OCA officials overseeing the investigation were worried that Omar wouldn't believe he had truly been made Factol until he had spoken with officials on Ortho, but Omar shared no such reservations, proving just how ignorant of Harmonium policy he really was. Once Omar had come to power and made his fatefull declaration, the Harmonium waited to see what spies and traitors would come out of the woodwork to support him. Once they had a substantial list of names, they swooped in and swept Omar from a position that he had never actually held in the first place. Then they began the most fruitfull corruption investigation in the history of the Planar Harmonium. The fact that, to this day, planars still consider this great success to have been a Harmonium failure is proof that the Orthorians have kept their secrets well

(Read the thing I added to my last post about Omar, I editted it as you posted, so you may have missed it)

Firstly, I still think we should have a Composer of Planar Harmony as part of the Octave, even if that isn't the Factol. Of course, if the Factol (who is a Composer) isn't a member of the Octave, than we need to give the Octave diferent titles. Perhaps instead of being "Composers" they are "Directors" or "Conductors" it would fit the theme, at any rate.

We also have another thing to figure out. If Faith isn't a member of the Octave, who is the Composer/Director/Conductor of Planar Harmony? What is hte relationship between the two?

To be honest, I like the idea of keeping Faith on the Octave, even if her actual position is strictly military, but that could be because I just posted a rather long write-up on the Octave that centers around Faith, and I'd rather not have to re-write that.

Which, actually, would be a pretty interesting angle to work on. You're probably right though, Faith doesn't really belong on the Octave, which means that I have a bit of a revision to do, well, as soon as we figure out who actually is the Composer (Conductor? Director?) of Planar Harmony.

2 quick questions which have probably been answered but I don't remember-

1. How are undead treated on Ortho, someone mentioned the idea of Harmonium Death Knights/Liches on another thread and this sounds kind of cool.

2. Are there dragons on Ortho? What role do the play? Are they linked to Kobold communities?

Ortho is the Homeworld of the Harmonium. It's being developed as a Rigidly Lawful Campaign setting for D&D.

Yeah, the sheer amount of stuff we've had to explain to Charles in the last couple weeks that wasn't in the PDF is staggering. I'm sort of amazed he stuck with it (and started contributing!). Even I took a month or two of wading before I felt like I had a good grasp on the setting.

I look forward to seeing what the new PDF looks like and what the revised "To Do" list currently is. Also, I appreciate everyone taking the time out to explain all these facts and factors to me. FYI, do we have a date for when we'll be releasing the revised PDF? I think that it's almost getting close to finishing time.

If no one has any objections to me doing up these, I'd like to also do the following projects in the future.

The Chaos Goddess of Disease
The Chaos God of Murder
The Isles of Thaera
The Orthi (Half-Goblins) MM write-up
The Hobgoblins of Ortho write up

I think that will almost cover most everything that's needed to be done. Note, I accent the "Most Everything" aspect. I'm open for hearing more elements that need to be expanded from everyone else as I consider my primary role to help fill in gaps.

That'd be me! One of my thoughts originally was:

I haven't really dug much more into them yet.

Keep in mind, we're making not so much a book as a PDF or collection of PDFs. Right now, we've got enough content. How much we've got exactly, I'm not sure. A lot of stuff in the PDF is totally redundant or unnecessary and can be cut, and a lot of the cool stuff we've come up with here still hasn't received a proper write-up as such (like the thing I wrote on the history of the OCA in some thread somewhere and seem to have misplaced). Still I'd estimate the stuff we've done as being about three to four hundred pages of varying quality. We've probably got about 50 pages of chaff to cut, and at least as much will be stuck in naturally to fill in holes. So yeah, I know it seems like we've got a lot of stuff here, and we do, but I can't see it getting much above 400 pages, which is about right for a setting book. If we hit the 500 page mark and don't have anything we are comfortable cutting, we can talk about a spin off. I doubt that will happen though, so we probably shouldn't worry too much about it.

As for what we should do after we finish the PDF, I was thinking we could release adventure modules every now and then to move the meta-plot forward (I was thinking of doing something with the contest to be the Conductor of Planar Harmony). We could also do more detailed releases for things we've only touched briefly on in this book. Things that could, potentially, be spun off into their own books include:

*The Prime Colonies
These have so much room to expand. Meter alone could probably top 100 pages.

*The Provinces
I know Heka-Voll is an ancient kingdom and the seat of the Harmonium, but what kind of food do they serve? Do they like it spicy? Is there anything they won't eat? So many unanswered questions!

*Religion
It's fine to say Orthorians mostly worship the Lords of Order, but you can't tell me they don't have different traditions. Perhaps we should take the time to explain what those are.

*The Races
Ten pages isn't enough to describe an ethnic group in the real world, why should it be sufficient for describing whole species in fantasy?

*Arcadia and Nemausus
Yes I know it's stepping on Planescape's toes, but there's a Harmonium-caused crisis going on in the Outer Planes and anyone playing on Ortho deserves to know about it. This has a much higher risk of stepping on canon than other Ortho projects, so we'd need to a have some canny bloods on board before we did this.

I think that about covers the obvious stuff. I'm sure we can come up with some fun projects that aren't on this list though.

At last count I eyeballed it around 300 to 400, I'm sure there's additional stuff added by now. Honestly - what we're missing though are stats for things: classes, feats, NPC stats, the usual things that come with a setting book. We have lots of informational meat, and not much of a skeleton to mount it on for play with your average DM. Average DM's not having either the inspiration, time or energy to make up their own numbers as they're already busy juggling their own plots and PCs.

We could also use an intro one-shot adventure, aimed at newer players, newer PCs. And given that it's Ortho the intro one-shot also needs to buck the "We're so evil it hurts, not a good-cop to be found for miles" stereotype from Planescape, in order to introduce the essentially conflicted nature of the planet.