Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

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sciborg2's picture
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Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Please consider patronizing one of the latest Open Design projects, Dark Roads and Golden Hells:

http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/front-page9819.php

I actually found out about this from from the front page's twitter feed and decided I really wanted more planar stuff in print.

This should be a great experience and ultimately a great product!

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Maybe I can persuade you.... since my secret Primer identity is actually Dan Voyce.

I got started as a freelancer because of Planewalker.com and the adventure I wrote here ('Desire and the Dead'), so I'm keen to pay you all back with the best homage and extrapolation of classic planar material that I can. All help greatfully appreciated!

As a side point, i've been reminiscing about my previous Planescape experiences over on the Kobold Quarterly site. One of the next two blog entries I write (not sure which one quite yet) is definitely going to plug all you lovely Planewalker people!

http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/front-page9890.php

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Hi Dan, nice to see you here! Perhaps you could explain this whole patronage concept better than I would be able to...

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Colin McComb just signed on. Woot.

hope that sweetens the pot,

Sci

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Also should mention Wolfgang Baur is on board.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Holy cow...that's quite a cast!

Doomedpaladin's picture
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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

It is, and its a LOT of fun too. Working with these legends always is, I'm addicted to Open Design projects. Check out the results of some of our recent brainstorming here: http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/front-page9949.php

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Ooh, Wolfgang Baur! He did Frostburn.

Jem
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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

The deadline is August 1st, so being at 80% now means that it's very likely to make the cutoff. If they go well over the cutoff, the project gets goodies! Like extra art budget or more page count.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Hyena of Ice wrote:
Ooh, Wolfgang Baur! He did Frostburn.

And some stuff called Planes of Chaos and In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Jem wrote:
The deadline is August 1st, so being at 80% now means that it's very likely to make the cutoff. If they go well over the cutoff, the project gets goodies! Like extra art budget or more page count.

Considering the epic ideas being discussed in the threads, low level adventuring in the planes, angels as antagonists, concepts like "hope", "love", and "time" as actual loot, extra page count would be very good and if anyone has an artist they'd like to see more of, now's the time to suggest them. We'll be deciding how much of the book will be in support of Pathfinder, 4th Ed, or if it will just be multi-system compatable right after its green-lighted.

If you're uncertain whether or not to join up, be aware, the price to join goes up after the project is greenlighted. So its easier to get the level of Patronage that provides the greatest amount of involvement (Senior Patronage) now rather than later.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

ripvanwormer wrote:
Hyena of Ice wrote:
Ooh, Wolfgang Baur! He did Frostburn.

And some stuff called Planes of Chaos and In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil.

Planes of what?

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Yeah, he also did Secrets of the Lamp.

That reminds me, someday I hope to try and email the staff of Inner Circle about the Violet Dawn topic I made, as well as the Planescape Sulwynaari tie-in with Crystalle (I know the Violet Dawn staff is quite familiar with 2E fluff as they admit in the free primer that the Dark Sun setting served as a major inspiration for their setting, and their books definitely read like 2E monster manuals and Forgotten Realms books in many ways. However, most of the stuff on Crystalle was from Dragon magazine 174, which it's quite possible the staff has never read. Plus, I was hoping to also get some info on the status of the company since, while they're still selling their products, they've been completely silent since early 2010, which is a real shame.)

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

I would definitely email them, I often bring this site up in discussions of fantasy - too many great locations, characters, GM resources, and fiction here not to spread the word!

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Twitter is saying Shemeska is joining the project...

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

sciborg2 wrote:
Twitter is saying Shemeska is joining the project...

Heavies everywhere!

This is my first Open Design project - if the brainstorming and general vibe thus far are any indication, I expect it to be a pretty great experience, to say nothing of the final product. If any Planewalker folks haven't checked it out I would certainly encourage doing so.

Doomedpaladin's picture
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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Who is Shemeska? Did a google search and only found furry pics/character writeups.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Shemeska is the avatar of Todd Stewart, a writer for Dragon Magazine and Paizo. A lot of "her" stuff is here, and "she" ran some amazing campaigns whose story hours can be found on Enworld. (will provide links in a bit)

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Dan put up a blog post describing some initial ideas on the project:

http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/front-page9949.php

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Something else that fence-sitters should think about, if the project is NOT greenlighted by its deadline date, everyone gets their money back and the book doesn't get made. Really, when is another chance like this going to come along?

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Just to confirm the Twitter rumor, because of several patron requests, Wolfgang offered me a spot for pitching ideas and contributing to the project. Smiling

I'm buried in a project for Paizo at the moment, and will be busy till after GenCon, but after then I'll be jumping into the Open Design one. *grin* This should be seriously fun.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Nice to see Shemeska still being alive even if his story lines are atm quite dead,
I was a great fan of those, and hate to see them in this particular state of disrepair,

anyway.. Smiling

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

For what it's worth it looks like I am joining the project as well. Funded by a generous early BDay gift from my lovely wife.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Woot. Smiling

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Here is some explanation of open design using the Bacon Sandwich analogy by Doomed Paladin. Smiling :

Someone approaches you and says, "I've got this great idea! It's called Bacon Sandwiches! I need help developing it though."

You say, "That sounds great, but what do you need from me exactly?"

They say, "A donation of money to purchase the materials to make them and your opinion on how they should look when we're done. A couple of other people have given me some already. Some, more than what I'm asking of you, so they get to make bigger decisions about the sandwich, like how crispy the bacon is, if there will be tomatoes, or cheese, or miracle whip, and what kind of bread we use."

You reply, "Here's what I can give you now. Can I give you more later? If I do, do I get anything other than the "privilege" of doing work for you?"

"Sure, but the longer you wait the more of the decisions will be made and the less input you'll get to put in on the finished meal. When they're all done I can sell you one 'at-cost' with what you've given me already. If you invest more you could get one plus a drink for less than you'd pay otherwise, and if you invest more than that, I'll have enough to make Bacon Sundaes for a select few."

Or, probably best, send them to the Kobold Quarterly faq: http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/faq

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

You should put the image up too, if possible.

http://buffetoblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/bacon-sandwich.jpg

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Dan made a great post on where the project is going with the Law/Chaos relationship:

http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/front-page10186.php

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

I've also picked up a sponsorship of this as well. Smiling I'm looking forward to getting involved and watching how things develop...

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Awesome news Clueless. Excited to see your ideas for the cosmology.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

And now in the latest new on the dreaded Planewalker / Open Design Cross Pollination of Doom comes:

Loki as a Senior Patron! Live in fear!

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

As we near the deadline, I figure I should make a final push for people to join while the entry price is cheaper.

The project has me very excited. I find myself going through the day, thinking about new locations and new interactions for the cosmology being planned out. Here are three major things that stand out to me about this project:

1) Relationship between Good and Evil: The celestials and the fiends are the major conflict, but this a giant Cold War between the two sides. Spy games, manipulation/guidance of mortal souls, and the struggle to define the Ideals (War, Art, Freedom, etc) are major parts of this battle.

2) Planar Paths and Waystations: Portals were done masterfully by Planescape, so a major focus as been other means of travel. Sailing on the Black Ships of Leng, hitching a ride from a Valkyrie, walking the Nine Alignment Roads.

Traveling the roads one might find taverns with portals, and maybe one day your character can own them. You might also enter the Market, a place overseen by the Guardians who seem to be concerned only with stopping any conflict that might interrupt the flow of trade between the planes.

3) Relationship between Law and Chaos: One of my favorite parts, the idea that Order and Chaos can be lovers, can work together to create great Art, and meet at places such as the Great Casino which exalts the Laws of Probability (and thus Unpredictability).

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

hey cutters,

The first round of pitches for our planar locations have just been posted to the kobold forums for discussion and critique, and features more than one excellent entry from our resident Planewalkers....

They (and everybody else too, to be fair) have created some top shelf stuff. At least one of them is going to grab a contract for sure. Once the voting is done, I plan to post the winning entries on the main website for all to see.

No spilling the dark of whos behind what until then, okay?

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Some good stuff there. Whatever doesn't make it into the official product will surely find a place in my personal lore depository.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Actually, when all's said and done, I'd love to strengthen the ties between the Dark Roads stuff and the stuff we do here.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Heh, by the way this book is out.

"Dark Roads and Golden Hells is one hell of an achievement… or perhaps eleven of them. Every chapter offers a world of ideas, every paragraph a vision. Open this to any page, and see if it doesn't draw you in. Open Design has created a dazzlingly worthy successor to the Planescape legacy."

- Colin McComb, Planescape designer

Get the $9.99 PDF here: http://www.koboldquarterly.com/kqstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&...

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Out of curiosity, are there any plans to release a print version of the book?

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

already out:

http://www.koboldquarterly.com/kqstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&...

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Huh...I guess I know what's on my To Buy list at GenCon!

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

The $2.99 supplement, Shadow Planes and Pocket Worlds, is now available:

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/104247/Shadow-Planes-%26amp%3B-Poc...

This one contains some new crunch (hazards, monsters, magic items) as well as planar rivers AND a new location called Mora.

It's not fair for me to give a whole review given I was a patron, but I will say IMHO Mora is one of the best evil planes I've ever read.

It inspired me to work with it's creator Paramo on our slowgoing but steadfast Feywild project.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Shadow Planes and Pocket Worlds: Everything is amazing, but AT LEAST get it for the planar hazards and wondrous items. Mmmm, angel faces.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Wolfgang's noted that anything that didn't get into the books could be a web article.

So patrons who had stuff left on the cutting room floor should consider submitting:

http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/submit

"Web submissions are largely held to the same standard as print submissions, but follow a slightly different process for submission and publication.

These articles should be less than 800 words long and do not require a query. You can submit them directly to the Web editor, Miranda Horner. Most web submissions are unpaid; a few long-running series or specially-commissioned articles are paid 1 cent/word."

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

I don't if you can flesh out other people's creations. I'd check with Wolfgang on that!

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Okay, one more push before Gencon ->

Review @ Paizo (hafta scroll down):

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8tm3

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

I did not the time to read this. The first part that I did is beautiful. My friend glued another picture over that algorith lol

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

I bought the book last week on Amazon.de and had to send it back. In all headlines the letters N and B had not been printed properly. Got a replacement today - with the same errors. Sad

Guess I will send this back, too and and chose refund.

I'm quite disappointed and just wanted to ask whether any of you who has a printed version of DRGH faced the same problem.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

I'd contact Wolfgang about this. I know he used to keep up with Twitter so that might be a place to try him?

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

I have two copies (I didn't really understand what I was getting out of the patronage deal, so I bought in as a patron and ordered another copy). Anyway, neither has any glaring typos.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

One page as an example - hope it works for you.
Guess you would have noticed those missing letters. Eye-wink

So I think it's just a problem that Amazon.de got a printrun with errors. Bad luck for me, as it won't help to return it and get a new book which likely will have the same errors. Guess I'll have to look for other sources.

Sciborg: I don't have twitter and I don't plan to get it. If anyone wants to tell him: Feel free. I will however send Armoury99 a PN.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

Mask, the other place to try him is the Kobold Quarterly forums:

http://koboldquarterly.com/KQForums/

I can do it if you like, but it might speed things up for you if you post. I can't guarantee Wolfgang will give you a free copy but it's possible.

Just let me know what you want.

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Re: Open Design of Dark Roads and Golden Hells

I don't need a free copy, I'm willing and able to pay for it. They had costs for making this book after all. I just want to avoid paying lots of money for shipping, which would happen if I'd buy in the States. (I live in Germany - you might have guessed from "Amazon.de" Eye-wink ). Amazon.de has free shipping for books within Germany, and I hope I'll find another shop here. If I'd buy at Kobold Quarterly the estimated shipping costs are 14 $ - for a book costing 20 $.

It might not a bad idea to inform those involved in selling the book, however, as they might want to take any action (contact amazon about those books, slapping those responsible at the printers around a bit with a razorvine-whip), so I think I might try KQ-forum tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.

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