Old-time Planescape DM back to his roots

11 posts / 0 new
Last post
Aghris's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2008-10-09
Old-time Planescape DM back to his roots

Hi all,

 

First off, great site this! Amazing resources and a 700+ page resourcebook to boot. Sending it off to the printer now. The forum is a bit confusing for newbies like me though. No search function and not very descriptive board names. Therefore I might post this in a completely wrong forum. I apologize in advance if that is the case. 

I'm an old timer in  Planescape DM'ing who has been on a hiatus for more than 5 years. Recently, one of my old players asked me to breathe new life in a campaign that we concluded over 8 years ago. Let's just assume that I'm rusty at best. The campaign concluded with one of the characters sucking up to Graz'zt (yes, he was a CN character who thought at the time that might be a good idea) and resulted in hm receiving custody of a portion of one of the layers of the Abyss. I thought that since it was the end of the campaign anyway, I might as well go all out in the rewards. Of course, this now bites me in the ass, as I (admittedly) stupidly agreed to pick this up where we left off. The players were into some epic level playing, and I must admit that I enjoy the challenge of 22+ level characters anyway.

But I'm in a rut now. I have two weeks to come up with some interesting, and of course challenging, adventure ideas. He is sort of an Abyssal Lord now, and the other player agreed to be his army commander, leading the troops into the Blood War. So ideally, the adventures at least touch this aspect. Also, I want political intrigue happening, I want the players to be in the middle of a power vacuum that was created when a low powered character assumed the leadership of a layer. At least twelve tanar'ri lords want to take his place, or at least see what this new player is made of.

However, I also want a more overarching campaign. A story that links the adventures. Something threatening even a Chaotic Evil Abyssal Lord. Can anyone help me with some good adversaries for an Epic Level character?

 

Also, does anyone know of some add-ons of the E-Tools for PS3.5? 

Hymneth's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2006-08-01
Welcome to the boards!

Welcome to the boards! Always good to see a new face.

Personally this just screams betrayal to me. For one thing, it's very unlikely that Graz'zt would ever hand over any of his spiritual territory for any reason, so it's probably just part of a plan of his. The character serving as a pseudo-lord is probably going to be a fall guy in this. Lords will come out of the woodwork to try to kill him off, not to mention butchering each other for the right to try. The question you should be trying to answer is what will Graz'zt gain from this chaos. If you can do that I think a pretty good campaign would probably follow

Fidrikon's picture
Offline
Factor
Joined: 2004-12-19
Interesting situation. I

Interesting situation. I agree with the above post that the situation reeks of betrayal (Tan'ari arnt exactly known for their loyalties.) and assasination attempts/ challanges will be many.

I would also reccomend celestial interfernece.  You mentioned that the character is CN, not CE. Ifgood old Graz thought that celestials were secret meedling in his affairs, then an apperantly important CN lieutenant would be ideal bait.

A  celestial organization would almost certainly try to turn the CN mortal to their side, ideally in way that they can eliminate the threat if he doesn't take to the idea. If he turns, he now has to help bring down Graz (and probably fail in the attempt, a pawn used by greater powers). If he refuses, they now have to flee back to the abyss while being attacked by celestials intent on making sure Graz never hears of their interference. And most players, while being able to rattle off the threats of fighting a balor from memory, are very inexperienced when fighting celestials. 

Either way you get to throw some truely dangerous encounters at them, and some nice roleplaying as well.

 

Thats both of my cents. 

Clueless's picture
Offline
Webmonkey
Joined: 2008-06-30
Welcome aboard! Re: The

Welcome aboard! Re: The forum awkwardness, we're still doing steady small improvements on our new site setup here, so if you want to PM me with suggestions or pain-points I'll gladly add t hem to my to do list. Smiling

Aghris's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2008-10-09
Thanks for your

Thanks for your suggestions guys! 

Yes, I also figured that Graz'zt does not do this out of the good of his heart. Since I already gave the layer away 8 years ago, I had to retcon the reason for it. The way I figured it is that Graz'zt is getting a bit overwhelmed with his fighting with Orcus and Demogorgon, especially now that Orcus is back in full force. He figured that with this PC helping him out, he can avert his attention more outside his realm. Of course, once stability has more or less returned in his realm, the player is the first to fall.

I also thought that this would give some opportunity to explore the enimosity between the three Abyssal Lords some more. No doubt Demogorgon or Orcus will approach the player at some point in the future, offering him the vassalage under them, or trying to recruit him as a spy. The player will no doubt (arrogant as he is) see this opportunity to get the bargains of his life, but will eventually fall to the schemes of the three (unless he plays them very well, which I may think he is able to).

I'm not so sure if bring in the celestials is something I would like to do. They will of course play some small part in this, but my style of DM'ing is not so much Good vs. Evil, as more Evil vs. a lot of other kinds of Evil. The player thinks he can play Evil (he already mentioned that he will probably shift his alignment from CN to CE, something wchich sounds logical to me if you want to survive on the Abyss), but I want to challenge him into still being shocked by the depravity possible in the Lower Planes. 

One thing I night like to do in this campaign in introduce a common enemy to all sides of the planes. I figured some sort of power from an unknown part of the multiverse (maybe the Ordeal, who knows?) will manifest and start 'eating' the planes (sort of like The Nothing from Neverending Story). This power is neither Good, Evil or Neutral, it just 'is' and all the planes will need to cooperate to put a stop to this. I'm not too sure about this yet, as it still feels a bit too contrived, but it's an idea.

I believe I have the basics and the political intrigue covered in this campaign, but there are a few things I'm still not certain. For example, who runs the Blood War efforts on the demon's side? The baatezu have it simple, there is one general who runs the entire thing. Not so much with the tanar'ri I believe. Who do they report to? Who decides that an invasion of Carthrys is called for? Or does every demon prince decide for themselves who and when to invade? If so, does my player have an option not to participate in the Blood War at all, or will his army always get drafted, no matter what he wants?

Another thing that I ran into while reading Faces of Evil is that the Abyss itself is testing its demon princes, and the ones that don't cut it will get swallowed by the plane to contribute to challenge other contenders. I like this. It sounds like something truely abyssmal. But how do I go about this? What would be a good mechanic for this?

Also, the player is a demon prince now, allbeit a very lowly one. Still, is he able to enter Sigil? he's no god, but I don't believe I've ever seen a ruler in Sigil in any of the source books.

Lots of questions, and I believe that with more answers, I will even have more questions.  So I appreciate all the input people can give me.

Evil's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2005-11-12
Hi and welcome back to the

Hi and welcome back to the scene!

To answer one of your questions, theres an instance of a abyssal lord in sigil. It is trapped in the Automatic scribe in the Clerks ward. It is the only one I know of. To get around your problem: your character got the custody of a layer from Grazzt, and gained some semblance of his power. Remember, only real powers are barred from entering the City. Proxies, lets call them "the chosen of the gods", can still enter. so your character may still qualify for entrance. And you will not be hurting his ego if you tell him he is not truly an abyssal lord but he is still the proxy of Grazzt.

Abysal lords back the Blood War effort to some degree whether they like it or not. Its true they dont care so much as the devils, but it wouldnt serve their interests if they lost the War either. So they send their minions occasionaly. A tanarri campaign is probably commanded by a war council of Balors and Mariliths from many different layers. It is probably an extra factor adding to the chaotic nature of the abyssal hordes. They outnumber their foes with thousands of creatures from hundreds of different layers, but they lack a reliable battle plan and a proper command structure. Separate armies of different Lords will probably attack a rival lord's army at the first chance they got, and with the same  conviction they would attack the Baatezu.

Prior to writing the above I read your first post and thought "wow! thas gonna be a challenge!" and immediately came up with a few ideas. Then I read your second post and saw you already came up with your solutions. But since I don't want to forget, I'll write down my ideas anyway.

 Grazzt has been working with the Rule-of-Three to make peace in the lower planes and attack the upper planes. First task is convincing some of the more prominent Abyssal lords into joining the league. A great chance to tour the abyss. It wont be easy. If they are somehow successful, The PCs are charged with the negotiations and the initial talks will be done in Sigil, the neutral ground. They will have to work hand in hand with the ROT and try not to draw attention to themselves - a challenge considering their tremendous powers. Theres a huge chance that they are used as bait, because to Grazzt, the PCs are expendable. If discovered, they may be opposed by all kinds of celestials and good entities, baatezu hating tanarri and tanarri hating baatezu, yugoloth,or even Rilmani. Since its not your style, you can avoid good vs evil conflict by blowing the whole deal up in their face, possibly through treachery, and the PCs having to deal with the big mess as the Official Scape Goats of the Lower Planes.

thats all for now & good luck on your new campaign.

Azure's picture
Offline
Factol
Joined: 2006-05-17
Welcome, Planewalker. I

Welcome, Planewalker.

I have an old campaign I've let drop in the last turn or two, having moved.  I try to keep ecoes of old PCs and NPCs into my on-line campaigns (BoG'r, Sigil:The Musical II)

 

Evil wrote:

To answer one of your questions, theres an instance of a abyssal lord in sigil. It is trapped in the Automatic scribe in the Clerks ward. It is the only one I know of. To get around your problem: your character got the custody of a layer from Grazzt, and gained some semblance of his power. Remember, only real powers are barred from entering the City. Proxies, lets call them "the chosen of the gods", can still enter. so your character may still qualify for entrance. And you will not be hurting his ego if you tell him he is not truly an abyssal lord but he is still the proxy of Grazzt.

Abysal lords back the Blood War effort to some degree whether they like it or not. Its true they dont care so much as the devils, but it wouldnt serve their interests if they lost the War either. So they send their minions occasionaly......

Grazzt has been working with the Rule-of-Three to make peace in the lower planes and attack the upper planes. First task is convincing some of the more prom0inent Abyssal lords into joining the league. A great chance to tour the abyss. It wont be easy. If they are somehow successful, The PCs are charged with the negotiations and the initial talks will be done in Sigil, the neutral ground. They will have to work hand in hand with the ROT and try not to draw attention to themselves - a challenge considering their tremendous powers. Theres a huge chance that they are used as bait, because to Grazzt, the PCs are expendable. If discovered, they may be opposed by all kinds of celestials and good entities, baatezu hating tanarri and tanarri hating baatezu, yugoloth,or even Rilmani. Since its not your style, you can avoid good vs evil conflict by blowing the whole deal up in their face, possibly through treachery, and the PCs having to deal with the big mess as the Official Scape Goats of the Lower Planes.

thats all for now & good luck on your new campaign.

I think this is a cool idea, because it sends the PCs back to Sigil as high-level envoys.  You could play them meeting several other Abyssal generals and proxies on neutral ground.  The PC might be able to enter Sigil, but has to be extra careful not to get mazed by The Lady of Pain.

My own $0.02 >> Ideas for NPCs

One NPC from my old campaign was Kurr, a proxy of Tou Mu, Godess of the North Star ( From 1e Dieties&Demigods ) and my attempt at a CE Cipher.  He was The last our Heroes saw of this nemisis, he was a corpse, walking through the gates of Feng-Tu.  I had planned on him coming back as a half-fiend vampire (he was half-fiend to begin with), but never got to.

"Kurrasi-Jiasa, Envoy of Feng-Tu" ; Description: Standing a lanky 7 feet tall, bald headed, with slanted black eyes, one covered by a metal eyepatch.  His teeth are sharp, like a shark's, but black, on dark purple gums.  When he angers, which he will do at the slightest breach of ettiquite, his good eye burns red, and his tounge lashes out of his mouth, up to a yard!  Yet he never strikes first, prefering to assess his foes, vebally and mentally, before using physical confrontation.  The Evnvoy wears imaculate red and black silks, and always with a midnight blue sash.  At his side are two heavy hammers with cold iron heads.  Vague Stats: High Level Priest/Monk Vampiric Cambian.  The epitome of Abyssal Diplomacy, representing Abyssal holdings of the Celestial Beuraucracy.  Able To supply small groups of unparalleled assassins and demonic martial-artists.

"Black Spawn of Jublex"  ; Description: Jigantic demonic black pudding with a sinister mind.  Woe to the burk who doesn't get out of the way when Back Spawn is sliding down the street.  Not that it moves very fast ... most of the time.  Of course, it can shoot half a dozen psudopods at once, and it can exude several powerful poisonous, acidic, sticky, or even halucinogenic secretions at will.  Vague Stats: Advanced Fiendish Black Pudding.  Lots of personal power (Tough target for assassination-type mission), but few allies or resouces other a deep knowledge of slimes and fungi, possibly fungal alchemy too.

"Mistress of the Sky", Proxy of Pazzuzu ; Description: Normally cloaked in illusion to make her appear as a beautiful woman. Vague Stats: In actuallity she is a half-fiend harpy/succubus sorceress.  Has access to huge flocks of vrocks and other fiendish avians.  Also controls a huge but secret organization of Kenku and a multi-planar cult of Pazzuzu worshipers.

"Big Baba" ; Description: Insanely fat night-hag crime boss.  Vague Stats: Runs Night-hag market and cross-planer smuggling.  Able to provide rare items, magic, and yugoloth mercinaries.  Might also have ties to Iggwilv.

"The Monster"  ; Big reptilian thing, like a fiendish dino or something.  Mindless destruction controled by a sly and coniving Yuan-ti Proxy of Demogorgon through magical means.  Demogorgon is a foe of Grazz't.  Shame if someone stole the magic leash and collar that allow that snake to keep The Monster under control.

"The Balif" ; Vague Stas: Balor, representative from Woeful Escarand with access to hordes and hordes of lesser Tanar'ri.

"The Captain" ; Doomguard leader with access to a ship of chaos, to break up the Baatezu formations.  Must be properly motivated to attent to the battle in YOUR sector of the coming battle.

"The Minions of Thanatos" ; Proxies of Orcus, one of Grazz't's most powerful foes.  Make a bunch of these as foes for the PCs, but choose a memorable one as the head nemisis.  Here are 3. ;  "The Eye of Orcus" Vamprie-Priest with magic piercings and tatoos.  Commands many undead, sent to Sigil by Orcus to limit his influence on Thanatos. {E. of O. was a villain from one of my group's adventures, to a prime world known simply as "Deadworld", a world ruled by vampires and necromancers}  "Pale Maid"  Literally, the Factol of the Dustmen's head chambermaid at the Mortuary. Has high-level access to Faction politics and gossip, and can engineer problems for the PCs from behind the scenes.  "The Rotter" Mummy (or something else that causes disease) with a heavy Sigilan accent, because a mummy that talks with cokney accent would be fun.

Of course there are plenty of Baatezu in Sigil too.  They might try to out-bid (possibly by removing bidders) the Abyssal side when negotiating with Yugoloth mercinaries or assassins.  A Baatezu General might be in town, and the PCs might be asked to take out his second and third in command as soon before the coming battle as possible.  The PCs migh intercept a part of the Baatezus' battle plan, or a fake battle plan in an attempt to fool them.  Baatezu agents might try to sew seeds division among the Proxies of the abyssal lords.

Zimrazim's picture
Offline
Factol
Joined: 2007-01-14
Aghris wrote:The campaign

Aghris wrote:
The campaign concluded with one of the characters sucking up to Graz'zt (yes, he was a CN character who thought at the time that might be a good idea) and resulted in hm receiving custody of a portion of one of the layers of the Abyss. I thought that since it was the end of the campaign anyway, I might as well go all out in the rewards. Of course, this now bites me in the ass, as I (admittedly) stupidly agreed to pick this up where we left off. The players were into some epic level playing, and I must admit that I enjoy the challenge of 22+ level characters anyway.

But I'm in a rut now. I have two weeks to come up with some interesting, and of course challenging, adventure ideas. He is sort of an Abyssal Lord now, and the other player agreed to be his army commander, leading the troops into the Blood War. So ideally, the adventures at least touch this aspect. Also, I want political intrigue happening, I want the players to be in the middle of a power vacuum that was created when a low powered character assumed the leadership of a layer. At least twelve tanar'ri lords want to take his place, or at least see what this new player is made of.

However, I also want a more overarching campaign. A story that links the adventures. Something threatening even a Chaotic Evil Abyssal Lord. Can anyone help me with some good adversaries for an Epic Level character?

Beware of gifts from tanar'ri princes. )

Since the PC is not CE, it goes without saying that Graz'zt probably would not mind converting him to CE alignment (through the routine administration of an Abyssal layer, or through the process of defeating various challengers/enemies that the PC encounters because he now administers said Abyssal layer).

Perhaps that Abyssal layer is soon going to be attacked by overwhelming numbers of baatezu or tanar'ri enemies of Graz'zt, and Graz'zt has already decided to give up that layer as a strategic move (perhaps in order to have enough tanar'ri forces available to save a different layer, in order to conquer someone else's layer, or to have his enemies overextend themselves by conquering the PC's layer).

Perhaps some of Graz'zt's top marilith minions are upset about some mortal getting a whole Abyssal layer, and try to have the PC assassinated, overthrown, or otherwise inconvenienced. (Perhaps Graz'zt is aware of this too, and is testing his minions.)

Maybe there's something intrinsic to that particular layer (ancient artifact? mysterious megaliths?) that a tanar'ri is unable to use, but a mortal being can, under the correct circumstances. Graz'zt figures that by sending the PCs there, he might be able to control the MacGuffin using the PC as his mortal proxy.

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Aghris's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2008-10-09
Wow! Thanks everyone for

Wow! Thanks everyone for their (very long) replies!

My campaign takes off next Monday, so I have to make some decisions now. Although there is wiggle room to get the PC into Sigil, I think that I prefer him not being able to enter. Another player, this PC's henchman and army commander, does not have Abyssal Lord status, and would be able to. This can lead to interesting conflict. I already see seeds of distrust spring up whenever the henchman has some secret dealings in Sigil that the player has no means of finding out.

I also really like the idea of some sort of monolith on the player's layer, that is only usuable by prime-borns, which Graz'zt wants to control through the player.

The player also mentioned that he wanted to try to get the river Styx flow through his realm. I think I want him to succeed, only to find out that having a major traffic artery in your backyard is not very helpful to any secrets you want to keep.

A'kin is surely to pop in somewhere too (I really like the fluffy friendy fiend). Probably somewhere when the henchman has some dealings in Sigil, and will alsmost assuredly also be tracked by Shemeska. 

I will use the 'Baliff' (from Azure's post) in some incarnation. Probably in combination with the Mountain of Woe, where all new souls arrive.

Envoy of Feng-Tu sonds good too, and will make an appearance when the player is in need of spies and assassins (which will be almost constantly I guess). However, I don't like the sound of Abyssal Celestial Bureaucracy. Sounds too baatezu to me.

Juiblex will pop his head up once in a while, I like the slimy sucker. He has already started to infiltrate the realm by creating a swamp that holds a portal to his realm. Very inconspicious still, but potential to become much more.

There will be a Blood War, if only to have the army commander PC have something to do. I'm not sure what form it will take on, but I still have some time with that. Wouldn't want to expose the PCs with everything at once.

For now, that's about it. Again, thanks everyone for the suggestions, keep them coming of you wish to. I will be re-checking this thread once in a while.

Zimrazim's picture
Offline
Factol
Joined: 2007-01-14
Aghris wrote: A'kin is

Aghris wrote:
A'kin is surely to pop in somewhere too (I really like the fluffy friendy fiend). Probably somewhere when the henchman has some dealings in Sigil, and will alsmost assuredly also be tracked by Shemeska.

Speaking of loths, your PC's Abyssal layer could really use a yugoloth diplomat to make the PCs absolutely miserable. ) At a minimum, the loths would be happy to make as much profit off the Blood War in the area as possible. A mortal controlling an entire layer is probably just unusual enough to get their attention (though they've undoubtedly seen it before), not to mention that a mortal will be perceived as being easier to manipulate. A loth might also attempt to subtly foil whatever Graz'zt's plans for the PC are. The soul of a 22nd-level mortal Abyssal Lord is probably worth something on the market as well, and a clever loth may well attempt to maneuver the PC into a position where he would be willing to barter his soul for some short-term advantage. (This might also ensure that said PC never becomes a major tanar'ri in the future...)

 

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Evil's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2005-11-12
Zimrazim wrote: The soul

Zimrazim wrote:

The soul of a 22nd-level mortal Abyssal Lord is probably worth something on the market as well, and a clever loth may well attempt to maneuver the PC into a position where he would be willing to barter his soul for some short-term advantage. (This might also ensure that said PC never becomes a major tanar'ri in the future...)

Thats a really important thing you mentioned. In the Prime, where nobody really cares about what happens to a villain when she dies, everyone could team up to kill the bad dude. Or all the villains could join their forces to defeat Superman, once and for all. Not so in the Planes.

The evil guys will try everything they can to corrupt a reaaaally powerful mortal to their particular kind of evil, or kill her in a way where his soul couldn't travel to upper planes. Imprisoning is also an option, after all, why do you think there are so many prisons on the planes? Maybe, if the said soul is a true prize, like an epic level wizard, they will even try to fight off attackers to the body so she doesn't die too soon. Don't you remember that weird chaotic evil sorceror with the baatezu cohort? Here's the catch: if the soul is both on their side and is ripe enough for plucking, they finish it by any means possible. An evil creature with too much power is not so much an asset as a potential problem.

The goodies will try to imprison extremely troublesome mortals (in Elysium, may be?) so their soul will not reach the lower planes.  Perhaps they will even go so far as to stop others from killing the said cutter. Imagine a bunch of adventurers finally breaking the last defenses of the BBEG just before they are stopped by a solar! Some gods are known to have "cursed" mortals with immortality, too. 

The possibilites are endless...

Planescape, Dungeons & Dragons, their logos, Wizards of the Coast, and the Wizards of the Coast logo are ©2008, Wizards of the Coast, a subsidiary of Hasbro Inc. and used with permission.